Debates of Nov. 6th, 2001

Canada National Marine Conservation Areas Act

[Grant McNally, Canadian Alliance, Dewdney—Alouette, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to Bill C-10. We worked on it extensively in committee. Members of the coalition have concerns about the bill but are generally supportive of the concept of putting in place marine conservation areas.

I begin by speaking to Motion Nos. 1 to 4 which we are debating at report stage. My friend from Windsor--St. Clair brought forth some good ideas in terms of protecting marine conservation areas even further than laid out in the bill.

Clause 4 of the bill already balances the environmental concerns along with economic sustainability of the areas. I am not sure that we would be able to support his amendment although we appreciate his intent to further protect these areas.

I also want to talk about Motion No. 3 of another friend in committee, the member for Skeena. I commend him for his hard work. He brought forward a number of amendments in committee and as a result the committee heard more witnesses who had real concerns about the bill, particularly from British Columbia. He did a good job and should be commended for that.

We did not get all the amendments we wanted in committee. However, as the Alliance, coalition or other parties, we did move the government in some respects on the bill which improved it. It is not a perfect bill but it does set up some marine conservation areas of which we are supportive.

Motion No. 3 proposed by the member for Skeena would amend Bill C-10 by adding after line 36 on page 4 the following:

(5) The Minister shall undertake a mineral exploration review and assessment study prior to establishing any marine conservation area. The results of the Minister's mineral exploration review and assessment study shall be included in the interim management plan for that proposed marine conservation area.

That is a very positive motion and we support it. It helps all parties to know that the government would not impose a marine conservation area in a particular place where there might be a high potential for oil and gas exploration. This is particularly important in our province of British Columbia where the current Liberal government is exploring the possibility of lifting a moratorium with regard to offshore exploration of oil and gas.

One of the main concerns that members shared in committee, particularly my friend from Skeena and I, was that the government might establish a marine conservation area in a unilateral fashion that may cut out coastal communities where these areas may be established for other purposes.

The government assured us that was not the intent of the legislation and it moved to amend some other clauses. Those amendments did not go far enough, but at the same time we put a level of trust in the government. It said that it was putting forward a process for establishing marine conservation areas that would include consultation with coastal communities. There would not be a backdoor implementation of a marine conservation area in a place where there might be a potential for oil and gas exploration.

The motion brought forward by the member for Skeena is one that would have the MERA report examine the feasibility of oil and gas in a particular area. It is the scientific study that would determine whether this could be done in a particular area. It would be included in the interim management plan and be tabled in the House so that all members could see it. It would not simply go to the minister for her to review and make the decision behind closed doors. It would be brought forward so that members of the heritage committee could examine it followed by an examination in the House, and then we could decide on whether to move ahead.

It builds another accountability mechanism into the bill which reflects the need for consultation with local communities. It would also alleviate the concerns and fears of communities that the government might act in a unilateral fashion by imposing a marine conservation area on a community. The fear is that it might try to put a marine conservation area in place where there are oil and gas exploration possibilities before a review is conducted.

It is a positive move that we should support. It would benefit the government by supporting the clause because it would go further in giving all of us in this place and all interested parties in this debate a message that the government would not impose a marine conservation area anywhere in the country where there may be other economic resource questions to be determined by local and provincial governments without first consulting extensively with coastal communities and affected groups. That would be a good thing and we are supportive of that.

I have talked a little longer than I wanted to on the motions. I will talk a bit about the bill a little later if I do not say everything now. Our concerns with the bill centre around the consultation process.

A big part of the concern has to do with clauses 5, 7 and 10 which were discussed in committee. The intent of clause 5 is that a marine conservation area would not be established without consulting widely with involved communities. That is a good thing. There are some who have concerns that the government may establish a marine conservation area and then through order in council at a later date expand that territory to create either an MCA or an enlargement of the particular area.

The intent of clause 7 is that even if a marine conservation area has been established, it must go through the same process of consultation, examination by committee and be brought forward to the House for debate and a vote before it can be enlarged. We are hoping that is the intent of the clause. That seems to be the letter of the law, but as we know it is the spirit of the law that will have impact on what happens with the bill.

It is our hope that the government will stick to the intent and spirit of the bill, which is to hold wide consultation with concerned groups, particularly coastal communities where marine conservation areas would be established prior to the establishment of these areas. Once they are established there should be no backdoor process of enlarging or expanding a marine conservation area without this consultative process. It seems clear in the bill that is the way it should be, but too often we have seen in this place that what should be is not necessarily what happens.

It is my hope that the government moves ahead on Motion No. 3 presented by my friend from Skeena because it is a positive motion which we will be supporting. It gives ear to further debate in this place and implements the bill in a positive consultative process.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Bras D'Or—Cape Breton, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians and their government have built a world renowned system of national parks for over 100 years. This parliament has the opportunity to set the stage for building a system of national marine conservation areas. Future generations of Canadians will be able to enjoy and appreciate the diversity of our magnificent marine environments as they now enjoy the outstanding natural areas in our parks.

The long term goal is to represent each of Canada's 29 marine regions in a national system of marine conservation areas, much as we would establish a national park in each of the 39 terrestrial natural regions of Canada. Each national marine conservation area like each national park should be an outstanding sample of the region it represents.

There is an assumption that national marine conservation areas will simply be national parks on water. This is not so. Maintenance of ecological integrity is the first priority when considering park zoning and visitor use in national parks. National parks are managed to remain essentially unaltered by human activity.

National marine conservation areas are designed to be models of sustainable use and the approach to management is one which balances protection and use. As a result we need legislation tailored to national marine conservation areas.

I will give a quick overview of the legislation indicating how it is designed to manage protected areas in the complex world that is our marine environment.

The bill establishes the legal and regulatory framework for creating and managing national marine conservation areas. It does not by itself create any specific areas. It provides a mechanism for formally establishing national marine conservation areas under the act.

Bill C-10 sets out an order in council process for the establishment in law of national marine conservation areas that is similar to the recently proclaimed Canada National Parks Act. The order in council process would speed up the scheduling of new areas. I assure the House that the supremacy of parliament remains.

The bill would require proposals to establish each new national marine conservation area to be tabled in both houses and referred to the appropriate standing committee for consideration. The order in council would not proceed should either house reject the establishment of the new area.

Bill C-10 requires federal ownership of all lands to be included in a national marine conservation area both above and below the water as is the case for our national parks. This ensures that the Minister of Canadian Heritage would have administration and control of these areas.

If a province owns all or part of the seabed in an area where Parks Canada proposes to establish a national marine conservation area, the province would have to agree to use those lands for an MCA. In marine areas where there is contested federal-provincial jurisdiction there would always be consultations with the province concerned. The federal government has no intention of acting unilaterally.

There is a clear requirement for public consultation with the establishment of any national marine conservation area with particular emphasis given to affected coastal communities. I emphasize that if there is no public support for the creation of a national marine conservation area in any given location, the proposal would not be brought forward to parliament. Parks Canada would look to another area with which to represent the marine region.

When the government decides to take the final step and formally establish a national marine conservation area parliament would have an opportunity to examine the proposal in detail and satisfy itself that there is broad community support.

Bill C-10 calls for active stakeholder participation in the formulation, review and implementation of management plans. The legislation provides for accountability to parliament through the tabling of management plans for each marine conservation area.

Coastal communities need certainty before an area is established. Therefore when a new proposal comes to parliament along with a report on consultations held and any agreements reached with provinces and other departments, there will also be an interim management plan. Management advisory committees will be created for each marine conservation area to ensure that consultation with local stakeholders is on an ongoing basis.

I would now like to address how Bill C-10 reflects the government's commitment to working with aboriginal peoples. The legislation includes provisions to establish reserves for national marine conservation areas. These are established when an area, or a portion of an area, is subject to a land claim by aboriginal people that has been accepted for negotiation by the Government of Canada. Reserves are managed as if they were national marine conservation areas but without prejudice to the settlement of the claim.

A non-derogation clause has been added regarding aboriginal and treaty rights. There is also a specific requirement in the legislation to consult with aboriginal governments and organizations and bodies established under land claim agreements.

Finally, the legislation explicitly recognizes traditional aboriginal ecological knowledge in carrying out research and monitoring studies in national marine conservation areas.

Certain activities are prohibited throughout all national marine conservation areas. The most important of these prohibitions concerns non-renewable resources, specifically minerals and oil and gas. Marine conservation areas are managed for sustainable use and by definition, extraction of non-renewable resources is not sustainable.

Other activities would be regulated through zoning. In each national marine conservation area there would be multiple use zones where ecologically sustainable uses are encouraged, including fishing. There will also be zones where protection is afforded to special features and sensitive elements of ecosystems. These would be protection zones where resource use is not permitted. These zones would be identified in full consultation with local stakeholders.

I would like to reiterate that Bill C-10 is framework legislation. It provides the tools needed to create national marine conservation areas and to manage each one in a way that is appropriate to its unique characteristics. I believe we have struck an appropriate balance between protection and sustainable use. Very few activities are completely prohibited but tools are available to regulate activities to ensure that the structure and function of each area's ecosystems are not compromised.

We have an obligation to consult affected communities during feasibility studies in the planning process and in preparing the applicable regulations. Each area will be unique. It will be unique in its characteristics and uniquely managed. A national marine conservation area in Georgian Bay will be distinct from one in the Beaufort Sea or one in the Strait of Georgia or one in the Bay of Fundy.

Canada needs this legislation so that outstanding examples of our country's natural and cultural marine heritage can be provided with long term protection and so that Canadians can learn more about and experience this shared heritage.

[Jim Abbott, Canadian Alliance, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in speaking to the NDP motions it may be of value to look at the wording that party is proposing. The member for Windsor--St. Clair has proposed the following amendment:

4.(1) The purposes of this Act are:

(a) to create a system of representative marine conservation areas for the benefit, education and enjoyment of the people of Canada and the world; and

(b) to protect the ecological integrity of marine conservation areas and reserves.

His second motion is:

That Bill C-10, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing lines 30 to 36 on page 4 with the following:

(4) For the purpose of achieving ecologically sustainable use and protection of marine resources, marine conservation areas shall be divided into zones, which must include preservation zones that fully protect ecological processes, special features and all marine species that occur in these zones and may include natural environment zones that serve as buffer areas to preservation zones and conservation zones that foster and encourage ecologically sustainable use of marine resources.

What we have here, I suggest with the greatest respect to my NDP friends, is ideology versus practicality. Looking at the full intent of the law as it has been drafted by the government, all of the things the NDP has moved are more than covered. In fact, the NDP amendments create a redundancy in verbiage.

My friend from the Liberals who preceded me said that extraction of non-renewable resources is not sustainable. In the strictest meaning of the words, extraction of non-renewable resources, if those resources are being extracted, if they are not renewable, then clearly as my friend has said, it is not sustainable. At some point we are going to reach the end of those resources.

We also recognize that with the exception perhaps of wind power or hydro power generation, virtually everything we do as human beings is to consume some of the resources which were given to us by God himself. These are resources that we use hopefully in wiser and wiser ways. Certainly we are trying in every respect to ensure that we leave the world a better place, but to suggest that we could get along without the actual consumption of resources, with great respect to my friend, simply is not practical at all.

Referring specifically to the NDP motion, Bill C-10 is a framework. To try and confine even further within that framework any environmental or ecological imperatives is constraining the ability of human beings to have access to the resources that are at their fingertips.

One of the difficulties we as a party have had is that this is yet another layer. When individuals and those involved in natural resource extraction are exploring and looking for ways to continue to serve all of mankind with these resources, they find they are into layer upon layer. In Bill C-10 we not only have a new federal statute layered on top of other departments, but additionally, we have federal statutes layered on top of provincial statutes and provincial rules and regulations.

There is a difficulty at the moment for the province of British Columbia. The provincial NDP, the soulmates of the federal NDP, have gone through a process over the last 10 years of fundamentally, let us presume in good faith, lowering the ability of people to get to and to develop resources.

I will go off on a different angle for a second. In the province of British Columbia when the NDP government came to power there was a lot of responsible mineral exploration. We recognize that a lot of mines are being depleted or are running down due to world prices or whatever the case may be. The only way those projects the mining industry can continue in the province or in any area, is through further exploration.

As a result of the kind of motion our NDP friends have brought to the House, which reflects the kind of thought process the provincial NDP had, investment in mining exploration fundamentally has gone to zero. That is an absolute shame. It is a shame because in my constituency at the Sullivan mine, owned and run successfully by Cominco and its successors since the turn of the century, more lead zinc has been extracted from that one mine project than from any other lead zinc mine in the history of Canada. However it is now depleted.

The problem is we have not had exploration. If we do not have exploration, we end up with the problem that we will not have a mining industry tomorrow. What are the skilled miners in my constituency supposed to do? Within a very small community of only 500 people, as of December there will be 15 families looking at no more work. They will have to go to some other jurisdiction, probably outside Canada, in order to find employment. They are highly skilled people who are 45 to 55 years of age. Where will they go?

We see this kind of ideology. I say with the greatest respect to my NDP friends that they have a particular vision but I suggest it is a myopic vision. It is a myopic vision in that if we have the ideology of environmental protection at all costs to all exclusion, we end up with an employment problem, a resource problem, as well as a wealth generation problem.

For example, I note that today in the province of Ontario there will be an economic statement, if it has not come forward already. The premier told the people of this great province that the resources required even to do things like health care were going to be cut back.

My Liberal friends may have a difference of opinion over whether or not the premier should have done that. However, we come down to the same fact that if there is a slowdown in the economy, if there is a slowdown in the production of wealth, then there is no tax base from which to fund health care and other programs that are so essential to us here in Canada.

Clearly therefore, we will be voting against these motions. As I have suggested, the clauses are redundant. As a matter of principle, the further intrusion of more government rules and regulations to shut down the ability of people to responsibly be involved in resource development and resource extraction, is simply not going in the direction we need to go as a nation.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address Bill C-10 this morning.

I would have thought that the Liberal government, which sponsored Bill C-48 when I was the Bloc Quebecois critic on the environment, a bill similar to the legislation now before us, would have listened to opposition parties and heard what we said during the previous parliament.

Bill C-10 will result in duplication, and the federal government will take over jurisdictions that do not belong to it under the Constitution Act of 1867. This is a mixed bag of things other than what is targeted. The federal government is interfering through the involvement of the Minister of Canadian Heritage in areas that come under fisheries and oceans, and it creates new structures that are not needed.

In 1988, the governments of Quebec and Canada passed mirror legislation. I have a copy of the agreement creating the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park. That legislation was developed by the community.

At some point, people decided to do something about their environment. They got together and contacted the two levels of government. They told them “We want to work together to do something for our region”. In my opinion, the Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and the St. Lawrence are the most beautiful regions of the country—

[An hon. member]

After Lévis.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Oh yes, after Lévis. I am not so sure, but anyway.

So, these people took charge and called the attention of the two levels of government to their priorities. Together, they came to an agreement.

As we know the Saguenay—St. Lawrence marine park covers a very large area of several square kilometres. These people set up a co-ordination committee. They said “Since these jurisdictions could be shared between the two levels of government, we will call to task each government regarding their respective responsibilities”.

On April 1, 1990, after all these negotiations, the governments of Canada and Quebec signed the agreement establishing the 29th marine park.

Bill C-10 is about creating 28 marine conservation areas. But both groups of amendments before us tell the provinces “We are going to make the decisions. We are going to set a framework in place”. We are fed up with frameworks. I think we have quite enough of them in Canada.

I do not think any government member has read this agreement, or maybe a few did. I would have liked them to read it and then say “We are going to start from this, and, wherever we want to create a marine conservation area in Canada, we will use identical legislation and we will build on this instead of reinventing the wheel”.

With this bill, we are reinventing the wheel. I think there are more important issues we should be debating. On November 6, 2001, instead of discussing existing legal entities, we should start from there, and respect provincial jurisdictions.

That framework legislation was respectful of entities recognized in the Canadian constitution. It recognized the fact that the sea floor is under provincial jurisdiction. In that context, the Canadian government and the Quebec government could take action in their respective jurisdictions without interfering with one another.

Quebec contributed $11 million plus another $5 million, while Canada put up $9 million. In Saguenay—Lac-St-Jean, phase two has begun. It is working and we are moving forward.

I would like to congratulate my colleague from Quebec for her speech. I applaud her. She pursues this issue with a lot of determination. We cannot allow this government to interfere again in provincial jurisdictions, whether in Quebec, Ontario, the maritimes, the western provinces or British Columbia. Enough is enough. I think that it is time we talked about consultation. With this bill, the Canadian government is not talking about consultation.

They want a new structure. We would need money for all that. The profile of a marine park is very important. It defines the beauty of the area within the park. We should also take into account the priorities of the local population. This is not what this bill is doing; it is creating a top down structure.

The government does not know which bill to present. It does not have a legislative agenda. It brings old things back instead of taking what is on the table and starting from there.

Through our critic, the member for Québec, the Bloc Quebecois will once again be saying that we do not agree. We said that we did not agree with Bill C-48. And we will be saying that we do not agree with Bill C-10.

The Liberal member said that feasibility studies were going to be done. These have been done. We have a basic document. Why not build from there?

Submerged lands belong to the provinces. The framework agreement for the 25th marine park recognized this. Why must we keep fighting to have this government respect the constitution? They said submerged lands belonged to the provinces, they put it in writing and they signed. Why, this morning, must we debate a done deal?

The government thinks that the opposition parties do not realize we have already been down this path. Perhaps the Liberals have nothing to say so they are keeping us awake? All they want to do is interfere in provincial jurisdiction. What is going on here in the House right now is serious. Bill C-10 should never have seen the light of day. It should have stayed where it was.

During the 36th parliament, when this bill died on the order paper, I thought that the government would do some thinking, that officials would read the agreement already signed, that they would have done their homework. I see that the government is a real tower of Babel. No one knows what they are supposed to do. Everyone wants to grab a little bit of power which is not theirs by law.

Enough. I think that this bill should die on the order paper. The Bloc Quebecois will not give its approval to a bill which, once again, creates overlapping jurisdictions. This bill will allow the Minister of Canadian Heritage to create another structure and interfere in the work of other departments. The Department of the Environment and fisheries and oceans will be involved. Several departments are parties to these marine park agreements. The minister is giving herself the power to tell them what to do.

Imagine the confusion this bill will create within the Canadian government. We must see that public money goes elsewhere than into bills that are obsolete and unnecessary.

As the hon. member for Québec said, the Bloc Quebecois will be voting against this bill. And I hope that the majority of members in the House will do the same.

[Mac Harb, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, let me speak on some of the benefits that would come to Canadians, from all the different parts of the country, with the establishment of a national marine conservation areas act.

It would provide increased protection for outstanding examples of Canada's Atlantic, Pacific and Arctic Oceans, as well as the Great Lakes. It would provide an opportunity to increase public awareness and understanding of Canada's rich natural and cultural marine heritage. It would provide an opportunity to promote and publicize Canada as a worldclass ecotourism destination. It would provide an opportunity to diversify the economies of remote coastal communities. It would provide better planning with respect to ecologically sustained use of marine resources. As well, it would provide a focus and support for long term scientific research and monitoring related to the marine environment.

My colleague from the Bloc Quebecois raised the issue of provincial jurisdiction by saying that problems will arise concerning the management of these issues.

I would say, particularly to the hon. member, that this legislation does not affect in any way the existing relationship between the provinces and the federal government. For example, if a province owns all or part of the submerged lands in a sector where Parks Canada proposes to create a marine conservation area, a federal-provincial agreement will have to be concluded in order to transfer the ownership of the submerged lands to the federal government. Without such an agreement, the marine area cannot be created.

This is how the issue will be managed.

In marine areas where there was a contested federal as well as provincial jurisdiction, there would always be consultation with the province concerned with a view to finding a mutually satisfactory resolution. The federal government does not intend in any way, shape or form to act unilaterally.

Moreover, that way, we can always solve the difficulties which could arise, one way or another.

Another issue was raised, this one about the native peoples. As regards existing aboriginal or treaty rights, several stakeholders recommended that a non-derogation provision be included in the bill. These rights being constitutionally protected, the government has the obligation to respect them, regardless of any law. Nonetheless, for greater certainty, such a provision has been included in this bill.

When the committee heard from witnesses, concerns were expressed that the bill limited the circumstances under which reserves could be created. As a result, the bill was amended to broaden its scope making it clear that reserves could be established in the maritimes, or British Columbia for example, where there are settlement processes for claims to aboriginal rights other than the comprehensive land claim process.

The witnesses also expressed concern with the fact that the bill requires an act of parliament to remove lands from a national marine conservation area yet there could be situations, such as court decisions pertaining to the title, that should be resolved in a more expedient manner.

As a result, the bill was amended to allow the governor in council to remove land from a marine conservation area by order in council if a court, for example, found that aboriginal titles existed and the title holder did not want the land to remain as part of the marine conservation area. Here again we have seen that the committee has responded to the wishes of witnesses in that particular area of concern.

There is another notion, which is the establishment of a marine conservation area. It has always been the government's intention that those national parks and national marine conservation areas would be established in the same manner. As such, Bill C-10 was amended to reflect changes made in the recently proclaimed National Parks Act and all changes affecting the establishment procedures adopted in this bill will also be reflected in that act.

With regard to management planning, the bill states that the management plan would be prepared within five years of the area being established. While the bill was in committee, it was suggested that five years was too long to wait. Coastal communities need greater certainty before an area is established. The bill was amended so that when a new proposal comes before parliament, along with the report on the objectives and management of the area, the report will also include an interim management plan. In addition, the report will outline the consultation held on any agreement reached with provinces and other departments.

A management advisory committee will be created for each marine conservation area to ensure that consultation with local stakeholders continues on an ongoing basis.

The management plans for each area must be reviewed at least every five years. Thus the government will take a learn by doing approach for every area.

In each marine conservation area, ongoing consultations will make it possible for Parks Canada staff to take advantage of the knowledge of local residents and the traditional ecological know-how of the coastal and aboriginal communities.

The question of zoning was also raised. I want to emphasize to my colleagues the importance of zoning as a powerful and flexible tool for managing use within a marine area. In each marine conservation area there would be multiple use zones where ecologically sustainable uses are encouraged, including fishing. There will also be zones where special protection is afforded to, for example, critical spawning grounds, cultural sites, whale calving areas and scientific research sites. These would be protected zones where resource use would not be permitted.

The bill was amended to clarify that all marine conservation areas would contain at least two types of zones. At the same time, enough flexibility is left in the bill to ensure that each area can have a zoning plan that is appropriate to its individual situation.

I can assure hon. members that the regulatory authorities already in place in this bill, particularly those relating to zoning, can be used to manage activities such as bottom trawling, on a case by case basis, in locations where the seabed is vulnerable.

Parks Canada will identify the location of protection zones and surrounding multiple use zones for each proposed national marine conservation area during the feasibility study for that area in full consultation with those directly affected.

Finally, on the consultation question, it should be noted that the consultation provision of the bill has been strengthened considerably. The proposed legislation now requires the minister to consult with stakeholders, which includes relevant provincial and federal agencies and ministries, affected coastal communities, aboriginal governments and organizations, bodies established under land claim agreements, and other persons and bodies as appropriate.

The list of matters on which ministers are required to consult has also been expanded to include the development of regulations as well as consultation on the establishment of any proposed national marine conservation.

In the course of the committee hearings, the committee spoke to witnesses who approached the bill from a very different perspective. Some clearly stated that the bill was too restrictive and unnecessarily focused on environmental protections. At the same time, others saw the bill as too weak and asked the committee to consider further blanket restrictions and prohibitions.

The committee was sensitive to the concerns of all parties. The amendments that have been made show the serious approach the government has taken to those concerns and how it has made an effort to make the required changes when possible and appropriate.

On the whole, I believe the government has taken a balanced approach to the bill. It is my hope that the House of Commons approves it.

[Clifford Lincoln, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the history of our country is, in many regards, linked to exploration and development of marine resources on the Canadian coasts. Actually, our marine heritage is a reflection of our quality of life but it also reflects a good part of our literature, our songs and our art.

Parks Canada's national marine conservation areas program has several goals: to protect our marine environment, to conserve our marine heritage, to bring knowledge and pride to Canadians about this heritage, and to work with local communities to ensure that this very important legacy is passed on to future generations.

My comments today refer to Bill C-10, an act respecting the national marine conservation areas of Canada. Bill C-10 provides a framework for creating a network of national marine conservation areas, a network that will link Canadians to their marine heritage and to one another. There will be models of ecologically sustainable use. As such, marine conservation areas will also show us the way to our future.

I will also take time to speak to some of the main issues raised before the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

The purpose of the marine conservation areas program in 1995 was a reflection of the government's sea to sea to sea plan, which was developed in collaboration with marine scientists. The plan divided the Great Lakes and the country's Arctic, Atlantic and Pacific Oceans environments into 29 different marine regions.

It is the government's long term goal to establish national marine conservation areas that are a representative sampling of each marine region. These representative areas will include not only important parts of Canada's natural heritage but will also protect important areas and artifacts of Canada's cultural heritage.

Parks Canada has long years of experience in establishing and managing our special heritage places. I am referring of course to Canadian national parks, to our national historic sites, the historic canals and heritage rivers. The addition of national marine conservation areas to Canada's family of special places fills a significant gap since Canada's oceans and Great Lakes have always played a defining role in the country's economy, its culture and its identity.

At present, four of Canada's 29 marine regions are represented within the national conservation system. In 1987 the governments of Canada and Ontario signed a federal-provincial agreement to establish Canada's first marine conservation area, Fathom Five. It is representative of the Georgian Bay marine region in the Great Lakes which historically is known as the Cape Hurd islands area. These treacherous waters have claimed many ships. Now Fathom Five is preserving part of Canada's marine history. The wrecks of 21 known sail and steam vessels from the mid-19th century to the early 20th century lie within the boundaries of Fathom Five.

A 1988 agreement with the Government of British Columbia called for the establishment of Gwaii Haanas national marine conservation area reserve. Located at the southern end of the Queen Charlotte Islands, which is also known by its original name Haida Gwaii, it will represent both the Hecate Strait and the Queen Charlotte shelf marine regions.

More than one million sea birds nest along the coast with even more migratory birds passing through in the spring and the fall. Marine species range from abalone to grey whales, and their presence has enriched significantly the cultural heritage of the Haida.

In March 1997 four major oil companies agreed to transfer their offshore petroleum rights in the Gwaii Haanas marine area to the nature conservancy of Canada, which in turn surrendered them to the federal government. This process is an important step toward the designation of the site as a national marine conservation area reserve.

More recently the Government of British Columbia transferred its rights to the seabed within the boundaries of Gwaii Haanas to the federal government. However, before the area can be established, an interim management plan must be developed, including extensive local public consultations and negotiations with the Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Haida.

The Saguenay-St. Lawrence marine park represents the St. Lawrence estuary marine region.

In large part, this park was created in response to public demand by the local population for the preservation of beluga whales that live in the magnificent marine area known as the Saguenay fjord.

The marine park in the Saguenay was created in 1988, as a joint initiative of the federal and provincial governments, by concurrent pieces of legislation, which opened the way to co-operative management by the federal government and the province of Quebec.

Canadians can now visit each of these special places and see for themselves what a rich and varied marine heritage we are all privileged to share. We must also be able to bring heritage to Canadians where they live, in schools, in discovery centres and via the Internet.

Work is also ongoing on a feasibility study for a national marine conservation area in Lake Superior in Ontario.

Finally, a federal-provincial memorandum of understanding is in place to assess the feasibility of a national marine conservation area in the southern Strait of Georgia in British Columbia.

The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage worked extremely hard during this review of the bill. I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members who took part in the study. I also thank, very warmly, all members of all political parties who really played a very important part in reaching this stage of the bill.

We have made a big step forward in Bill C-10. I would like to endorse the bill and hope that its acceptance as a statute will come soon. It what is best for all Canadians. It is a statute of great importance for marine conservation areas in Canada.

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, after consultation with all parties, I believe that you would find unanimous consent to withdraw Motion No. 3 and to substitute in its place an amendment to the bill.

[The Deputy Speaker]

I want to begin by having the member for Skeena assure the House that in fact he agrees to withdraw his motion, Motion No. 3.

[Andy Burton, Canadian Alliance, Skeena, BC]

I agree, Mr. Speaker.

(Motion No. 3 withdrawn)

[The Deputy Speaker]

Does the hon. parliamentary secretary have the consent of the House to propose the amendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Skeena:

Motion No. 3

That Bill C-10 in clause 7 be amended by replacing lines 38 to 41 on page 6 with the following:

(b) any agreements respecting the establishment of the area or reserve;

(c) the results of any assessments of mineral and energy resources undertaken; and

(d) an interim management plan that sets.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The question is on Motion No. 1. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Deputy Speaker]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Deputy Speaker]

The recorded division on the motion stands deferred.

The next question is on Motion No. 2. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?