Debates of Feb. 21st, 2001

Business Development Bank

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The House will hear the question of the right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, was Mr. Jean Carle involved in any way in any of the transactions related to Auberge Grand-Mère? Is the answer to the question asked on February 7 the same, or is the Prime Minister changing his position?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, Jean Carle was never involved in the loan by the Business Development Bank. The leader of the opposition has just said that he has nothing against the loan.

The problem the leader of not the opposition has, who will never come back as leader of the opposition, is that it is pure jealousy. This government, for almost eight years, had no scandals while he was in an administration that had one every month.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in fact there are a couple of questions that arise from the loan itself, and I would like to bring them up.

We have obtained an internal memo from the Business Development Bank that details the very loan to the Auberge Grand-Mère. I will quote from that document. It states:

—the global risk for BDC is very high. We are aware that the financing structure recommended does not meet the normal policy and criteria of the bank.

Is that why the Prime Minister has not been entirely, shall we say, forthcoming with the House? That is the memo.

[The Speaker]

Once again, I am concerned about the tone of the questions. Hon. members know there are rules in the House concerning these questions. I urge all hon. members to show proper and judicious use of their words in asking questions.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, what is not forthcoming is the posing with four-legged animals outside parliament complaining about parliamentary pensions and then grabbing one right after the election is over. That is not professional.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the BDC memo which says very clearly—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I know it is Wednesday. Hon. members, we are losing a lot of time. The hon. member for Edmonton North has the floor.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is pretty sad over there no matter what day of the week it is.

The BDC memo concerns loans to the Grand-Mère of $415,000. What did it end up getting? It got $600,000.

Let us look at this. A bank is very worried about lending a large sum of money so it first ignores its normal procedures, it increases the loan by 50% extra and then it hands over the cash. I would love the Prime Minister to call my bank when it is time to renew my mortgage.

I want to ask, is this a shady loan or is it the fact that he arranged it?

[The Speaker]

I am not sure I heard a question but I think the right hon. Prime Minister will reply.

The hon. member for Edmonton North will pose her question directly.

[Deborah Grey, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton North, AB]

She surely will, Mr. Speaker. Is it the shady nature of that bank loan or is it the fact that he arranged it that prevents the Prime Minister from answering?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, the facts are pretty clear. The facts are that we have had a request by the Leader of the Opposition directly to the ethics counsellor for an investigation. That has now occurred and a definitive answer has been given saying that the Prime Minister of Canada was in no conflict and has complied with the ethics rules.

Then we had two letters from the leader of the Conservative Party to the RCMP. Surely all Canadians can agree that the RCMP are objective and professional. It did an investigation that said there was no need for a further investigation. Then the leader of the Conservative Party wants to coach the RCMP on how to be policemen.

This matter is ridiculous and—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Joliette.

Free Trade Area Of The Americas

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister for International Trade has said time and again that Canada's position was that culture, health and education would never be included in the negotiations on the free trade area of the Americas.

Could the minister confirm today that Canada's position is still the same and that our country will never accept that these issues be negotiated under the free trade area of the Americas?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, as regards culture, we have done some very important work, along with the Minister of Canadian Heritage, to develop a different way of treating cultural products. We feel it is important that these products not be subjected to standard trade legislation.

As for the other issues, namely health and education, I have always made it very clear that Canada would never allow negotiations on its right to have its own systems and its own way of doing things in these most important areas.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since we do not have access to the basic texts to be used in the negotiations, could the minister give us today the assurance that none of these issues are on the agenda of the negotiations on the free trade area of the Americas?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, this is what I just did in a very clear manner.

We intend to keep working with our colleagues from the hemisphere and to conclude, through negotiations other than those on the FTAA, agreements on the environment. Environment ministers will meet in preparation for the summit in Quebec City. We will also have meetings with labour ministers, who are holding their own talks. In early April international trade ministers will negotiate in Buenos Aires the extensions and the integration of the free trade area of the Americas.

Grants And Contributions

[Val Meredith, Canadian Alliance, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, last April, when we enquired about grants to the Strathroy Community Resource Centre, the parliamentary secretary not only defended the grants but attacked us for even questioning them.

As it turns out, we had every reason to be concerned. Last Thursday the police announced that fraud charges were going to be laid against three members of the board.

I ask the minister: Why was the government defending these grants instead of protecting taxpayer money from criminal misuse?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, as we have always said, whenever there were allegations of wrongdoing in circumstances involving government money we took them seriously. The department did ask the police to investigate. The hon. member is correct, the OPP have laid charges against three individuals. This is before the courts and, as such, I will say no more on the case.

[Val Meredith, Canadian Alliance, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is apparent that the minister really does not know what is going on in her department. The HRDC performance report states that last year's audit of grants and contributions found “that no money was found to be missing”.

This is quite interesting given that there are at least 20 police investigations into the grants and contributions program.

If no money is missing, as the minister claims, can she then explain to the House why there are these police investigations and why they are laying fraud charges on the files?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, what is absolutely clear is that the vast majority of investments made by the government in communities right across the country, including investments in the hon. member's own riding, have made a difference in the lives of Canadians.

I respect, from time to time, that there are allegations made about wrongdoings. We always take them seriously. If investigations are required, they are undertaken and action is followed.

Organized Crime

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a United Nations agency has criticized Canada's lack of action against the illegal cultivation of cannabis and its inability to properly control the production of synthetic drugs. I too have called upon the solicitor general here in this House to take action on the gangs terrorizing farmers, but with no satisfactory response.

Could the solicitor general tell us why he has turned a deaf ear to my entreaties for the past two years and could he tell us, in light of such a damning report, what action he intends to take so that farm families will no longer fall victim to gang threats?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague is personally well aware, the RCMP supports the SQ, which leads the investigations in Quebec.

We support federal, provincial and municipal police forces across the country and we will continue to do so to fight organized crime.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is not a matter of support, but one of resources. Resources are insufficient, as he well knows. We are not the ones saying it this time, the UN is.

Now that the laxity of the government is being criticized on the international level, is the solicitor general going to finally tell us what action he intends to take against drug traffickers and what protection he intends to provide to these farm families, who have had enough of his promises?