Debates of Feb. 8th, 2001

Ethics Counsellor

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I would caution the House that I think booing is quite inappropriate.

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the leader of the Conservative Party admitted to the press that he had absolutely no proof of wrongdoing and told the journalists “Let's leave it that I am fishing at this stage”. Yes he is, and he has come up empty once again.

International Loans

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday I questioned the logic behind the Liberal government's $500 million low interest loan to Brazil because of Brazil's policy to promote its aerospace industry with massive subsidies.

The Minister of Finance told the House that Brazil never exercised that option. However, page 33 of his department's 1999-2000 performance report states that Canada did indeed lend the money to Brazil and that Brazil paid it back along with $20 million of interest.

Was the finance minister talking about an additional loan he was making to Brazil, or would he just admit he was wrong?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the loan that is being raised, in terms of Brazil, on behalf of all the countries was made not by individual countries but by the Bank for International Settlements. It is the one that provided the loan and a number of G7 countries guaranteed parts of the loan. Canada guaranteed $500 million of that loan. The loan was paid back. The guarantee was never exercised, as I said yesterday.

[Charlie Penson, Canadian Alliance, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I guess we should send back the $14 million in interest that we received as a result of that loan.

Does the finance minister not understand the irony of the situation of loaning money to Brazil which allowed them to subsidize their aerospace industry to the detriment of Canadian companies such as Bombardier?

Liberal bungling may have put Canada on both sides of this trade war.

Why were the Liberals so careless about protecting Canada's interests? Were they too busy playing international boy scout to remember their national responsibilities here at home?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. member ask his researcher to look it up. The loan was not made by Canada. The loan was made by the Bank for International Settlements. What Canada did was to provide a guarantee, for which we were paid. The guarantee was never exercised. I said that yesterday and I am saying it again today. That is the fact.

More important, to the point about Canada's international responsibilities, we are a G7 country. As a G7 country we will exercise those responsibilities on behalf of the vast assembly of nations. At the same time we are capable of—

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Mercier.

Summit Of The Americas

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is currently negotiating a free trade agreement with governments of the three Americas, which will affect the daily lives of Quebecers.

People want to know what is contained in the working documents in order to debate them. Did the Prime Minister himself not say the following before the OAS on Monday, and I quote: “Canada believes that openness and transparency are vital to building public acceptance”.

Along the same lines as his statement, will the Prime Minister undertake to make public the working documents, before the Summit of the Americas is held, as people are asking him to?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I explained to the House a few days ago that Canada had made its position known. It made it public, put it on the Internet, and it is accessible to everyone.

The positions of the other governments are a matter of discretion for them and for them to make public if they so wish.

I think the United States has decided to make its position public, but the position of other countries cannot be made public if they do not want it to be.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let the Prime Minister understand me clearly. We are not asking for the positions of the other countries, but the working documents that are used in preparing the positions each of them will be negotiating.

We also want the Prime Minister to promise to debate these documents in the House and for there to be no ratification without parliament's approval.

[Pat O'Brien, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the member should know that there has been a collective process put in place to receive written submissions from different civil organizations in the province of Quebec.

Indeed every day on our website the comments of Canadians are welcome. Canada is again showing leadership in encouraging other countries to welcome the participation of their civil societies.

Foreign Affairs

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there has been another disturbing allegation involving foreign affairs officials covering up crimes within our country. In this case officials are accused of covering up several cases of foreign diplomats smuggling children into Canada, abusing them as underpaid embassy domestics and sexually assaulting them.

Does the minister have any evidence of such incidents? Has he asked his officials to investigate these allegations, and if not, why not?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have asked for an investigation of these allegations. I expect it to be part of the report I receive from the department concerning the situation with respect to the Russian traffic accident, as well as other incidents where diplomatic immunity has been sought with respect to incidents that have occurred in Canada.

[Monte Solberg, Canadian Alliance, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for that answer.

This is a serious allegation. We know that in the past there have been diplomats who have engaged in behaviour that has harmed Canadian citizens. This is a different situation. We are talking about people who are not Canadian citizens being abused, but nevertheless it is extraordinarily serious.

Can the minister give his assurance to the House that if diplomats are found engaging in this kind of activity they will be expelled from Canada?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, incidents, such as the one the hon. member has pointed out, may not be affecting Canadian citizens but nevertheless represent activities which are not permissible under Canadian law and which are not condoned in any way by Canadian values and certainly not by the Canadian government. Those people should be asked to return home.

Cinar

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in response to a question put to him on Tuesday, the Minister of National Revenue stated in this House that, in addition to voluntary disclosures and decisions based on the discretionary authority of the Minister of National Revenue, there were, and I quote, “many more ways of resolving files”.

Could the minister tell us which other ways, in addition to voluntary disclosure and a discretionary decision, can be used to settle a case?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, there are two important factors here. First, I cannot comment on any file—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

I would like to be able to finish answering the question.

Section 241 is very clear on that. The second important element, which I have mentioned several times, is that the Minister of National Revenue must not get involved in any of the investigations that may be conducted by the department.

Third, there are indeed various ways used by the investigations branch to settle all the issues. It goes without saying that a number of investigations must be conducted. The hon. member of the opposition should look up the Income Tax Act.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there is something interesting about these investigations. In a press release issued on January 18, the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency indicated that there is only one way to settle a case, that is through voluntary disclosure, and this option is only available if there are no investigations or proceedings.

How does the minister explain that the agency for which he is responsible is contradicting him by saying that there is either voluntary disclosure or else an investigation followed, if necessary, by legal proceedings?

[Martin Cauchon, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue and Secretary of State (Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec)]

Mr. Speaker, generally speaking we look at the Income Tax Act.

There are indeed cases which may involve legal proceedings. Then there are other ones that may involve voluntary disclosure. There are a number of ways to deal with a file. Each case must be examined on its own merit. We must look at the global picture. Again, I would refer people, and particularly members of parliament, to the Income Tax Act.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Andy Burton, Canadian Alliance, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on Tuesday the minister of Indian affairs stated that the Sagkeeng band was in third party management. What he neglected to say was that the first third party manager was fired on January 31 for reportedly contributing to the ongoing deficit problems on reserve and that the new managers are insensitive to the needs of the band members.

We have spoken with these band members and they are discouraged, fed up and feel complete mistrust for band leadership and Indian affairs.

When will the minister do the right thing by opening all of the Sagkeeng band books and initiating a full forensic audit?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is the normal practice of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development to work with first nation communities across the country in a situation where there is a deficit.

It is not new to any government in Canada to have a deficit. What we do is we work to build capacity in those communities in order to put the administrative finances in proper order. We are doing that in Sagkeeng. We do that in other communities. We are working very closely with them to build the capacity to run good, solid governments and to deliver services to their community members.

[Andy Burton, Canadian Alliance, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear this response, but the Sagkeeng band of Manitoba has much to be financially accountable for. Band members have formally questioned the sincerity of the chief and council over a new school project. The general contractor has been forced into bankruptcy due to unpaid bills on this project.

The auditor general confirmed on Tuesday that Indian affairs has a poor educational funding record. Third party managers do little to address past wrongs.

Why will the minister not resolve this issue today and get the much needed school built?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that we confront on a daily basis is the fact that first nation communities have the fastest growing population in all of Canada. With that comes a lot of financial issues and a lot of stress on the department of Indian affairs to keep up the building of schools right across the country.

If the member would look, it is a well known fact that this department spends some $140 million a year in capital projects, many of them involving the building of new schools. We are looking at Sagkeeng to help them and we will continue to do that all across the country.