Debates of March 26th, 2001

Prime Minister

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Roberval.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister requires his ministers, specifically his Minister of Finance, not to intervene in any matter involving shipping, because of his personal interests.

He, however, is not shy about twisting the arm of the president of the Business Development Bank of Canada to obtain a loan, while he had considerable personal interest in recovering his investment.

How can something that represents a conflict of interest for the Minister of Finance not be so for him? That is what we want to know.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should understand that, since March 1993, six months before my election as Prime Minister, the Auberge was sold to a third party.

At that point, there was no longer a connection or relationship between the golf club and the Auberge. This is what the ethics counsellor said clearly at least three times before the Standing Committee on Industry where he has testified over the past two years.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's response is a little on the light side when we says there was no connection. The address of the head offices of the golf club and the Auberge is the same, the Auberge Grand-Mère. The connection tightens.

In the matter of the Auberge Grand-Mère, Industry Canada has had the books of the golf club corrected. The office of the Prime Minister has asked Melissa Marcotte to change her version of the facts. The Minister of Industry has tabled a letter including a significant error in date and, finally, the ethics counsellor is changing his position.

How does the Prime Minister think that he is being credible in this matter, with all the manoeuvring—

[The Speaker]

The Right Hon. Prime Minister.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have said the same thing here right along.

As of November 1, 1993, I had no more interest in the golf club or in the Auberge. When I became Prime Minister, I handed all my assets over to my lawyer for her to administer and that is what she did.

She has always acted in consultation with the ethics counsellor, who is also the deputy registrar general and who has the responsibility of looking at all of the files of all ministers, parliamentary secretaries and all deputy ministers in government. It is his duty—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, for more than a year the Auberge Grand-Mère affair has been taking up a lot of the attention of parliamentarians.

When is the Prime Minister going to table, for once and for all, all of the documents pertaining to his involvement in the Grand-Mère affair?

When is he going to free up this House to work in matters of importance to the people of Canada and stop hiding behind his partners?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member that the House and the people of Canada would be happy to see the opposition dealing with this nation's real problems. The only thing it is interested in, however, is trying to destroy the person who is the Prime Minister of Canada.

I am pleased to tell the hon. member that we are going to help him, help them get back to the affairs of the state, because if the ethics counsellor can obtain permission, since he is required by law to respect the privacy of those involved, I have authorized him to make public all documents he has in his position, and if he gets permission—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, it is the Prime Minister himself who is obstinately holding everyone up. Now he is hiding behind his partners.

If the Prime Minister is truly concerned about the debates that are going on in the House at this time, and if he is really concerned about the best interests of the Canadian public, let him table the documents that are being asked for.

But there is more. Why is the Prime Minister not in agreement for an independent inquiry to be held, if he wants to clear his name for once and for all?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have said yes to his request. That is yes in English and oui in French.

The documents will be tabled if the commissioner gets permission from the other parties involved. I myself have authorized him to table all those he has. He must, however obtain the permission of the others. As for me, I have said yes to having them tabled.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it has now been established by the ethics counsellor that the Prime Minister's agent, Debbie Weinstein, was actively negotiating the sale of his golf club shares between 1996 and 1999.

How many potential buyers did the Prime Minister's agent approach before Louis Michaud Investments agreed to take the shares? Were the shares shopped around for three years by the Prime Minister's agent, or did the Prime Minister only attempt to sell these shares when the heat was turned on in 1999 and the public became aware of his blatant conflict of interest?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the leader of the fifth party does not want to understand. From November 1, 1993, these shares belonged to Mr. Prince. It is clear. It was established by the letter that was transmitted by Mr. Paquet to the Department of Industry last week.

I have had no shares in any company of that nature, either golf or auberge, since November 1, 1993. Debbie Weinstein could not sell the shares. Mr. Prince wanted to sell the shares and—

[The Speaker]

The right hon. member for Calgary Centre.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in January 1996 the Prime Minister told the ethics counsellor that he had not been paid for his golf club shares, which he thought had been sold to Jonas Prince.

Can he tell the House why the transaction fell through? What explanation did Mr. Prince give to the Prime Minister for no longer wanting the shares in the golf club? Was it a bad investment, or was there some other reason?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, what a fishing expedition. Again, I understand that he twice failed his law exams, so I will have to say this.

On November 1, I sold my shares to Jonas Prince who signed a bill of sale, and after that there was a resolution according to the lawyers passed by the company accepting the fact that I had sold my shares. After that I had no interest and there was nothing I could do about the shares that were not mine. They were Mr. Prince's.

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister keeps repeating that he sold the shares in November 1993. I believe there is something he could do very quickly and simply to confirm that and to clear this matter up.

That would be to release the income tax records for his company, J&AC holdings, which would clearly show a sale and a receipt of money for the shares at the time the Prime Minister said.

The Prime Minister needs no one else's permission to do this. I ask the Prime Minister whether he will simply release those documents that are entirely in his control and clear up this matter.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have asked the commissioner to release every document that he has to this effect. He has looked into that. He has stated carefully and clearly that the shares were not mine since November 1, 1993. He stated that there was no connection between the golf course and the hotel.

With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I would like to table a letter that I sent to the leader of the fifth party earlier today, explaining in detail all I can say on this that is pertinent. With your permission I would like to table this in the House right away.

[The Speaker]

The Prime Minister does not need permission to table a document in the House. Any minister may do that at any time.

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, surely the House of Commons of Canada deserves more than a red herring. I say to the Prime Minister again that if he has his own tax records available he does not need anyone else's permission to table them.

The tax records would clearly show a sale of assets and receipt of money for those assets. If the Prime Minister really wants to clear this up, if he really wants to come clean with Canadians, will he simply put those tax records for his company before the Canadian public and prove once and for all that his assertions he sold those shares are correct?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if the commissioner has the permission of the other parties—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

There is nothing I can do. I gave him the authority to table the bill of sale and to table the resolution that was passed by the company on November 1, 1993.

After I sold my shares I just tried to be paid the money that was owed to me. As far as the auberge, in the letter that I gave to the Table you will find that in my district I concentrated a lot to create jobs in the tourist industry.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, referring to the 1996-97 period, the Prime Minister said in the House on Wednesday, regarding the golf club that, and I quote, “The Minister of Industry has stated that I did not own shares”.

However, officials of the Grand-Mère golf course stated that the Prime Minister's name was on the shareholders' register until 1999. Moreover, Radio-Canada learned that Industry Canada asked that the register be changed.

Could the Minister of Industry tell us whether it is the Prime Minister who asked that this change be made, the office of the Prime Minister or the minister himself?

Who asked that this change be made?