House of Commons Hansard #43 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was workers.

Topics

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Marcel Gagnon Bloc Champlain, QC

Mr. Speaker, before putting a question to my colleague who just finished his speech, I would like to get back to what he said about the time when the government used to pay a third. It was one-third, one-third, one-third; in other words, the employees, the employers and the government each paid an equal share.

Today, with this bill that is going to become law, we realize that the government has stopped paying its share. It has completely changed its tune. Today, instead of paying its share, it is claiming ownership of the surplus. The government is taking 40% of the surplus.

All of us, as individuals—and the trade unions also have mentioned it—know what we are talking about. If any group in society were caught taking money in this way, it would be charged with theft and we would quickly pass special legislation to prevent a reoccurrence. Now the government is passing legislation to steal from the workers.

Since my colleague talked about this a bit, I would like to hear his thoughts on this.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I think the member is speaking from the heart because he shares the frustration that many Canadians feel. That is the government has no right to lay claim to the surplus and to use it for any purpose if it does not even contribute to the plan. All the government does is administer the plan.

Maybe it would be justifiable for it to charge some administrative fee for managing the program, but surely it does not have the right to take $750 million a month that should have gone to income maintenance for unemployed workers, and use it for anything it wants. It is literally for anything the government wants because it goes into general revenue.

What the government chose to do with the surplus is really galling, and I would ask the hon. member to try to imagine the optics of this. It took the surplus from unemployed workers, arguably the most vulnerable people in the country, people who have lost their jobs, and squandered it on tax cuts for the wealthy. The government chose to invest $100 billion of our money in tax cuts. It is like a perverted form of Robin Hood, to rob from the poor to give to the rich.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, we have the circle that the government draws around areas of high employment, but within these areas of supposed high employment are pockets of small communities. The residents of those communities are required to obtain the same number of qualifying hours to draw employment insurance benefits as those who are in the nucleus of the high employment centres. Perhaps they are in small fishing communities where resource dictates and have had very little work in recent years. Because their communities fall within the larger areas, consequently they require the same number of hours as the high employment centres.

Does the member think that is fair and are these people being treated fairly?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member points out one of the many inherent things that are not fair with the system. When an arbitrary line is painted around a geographic region, it is not a homogeneous group.

My riding of Winnipeg Centre is a good example. The unemployment rate for the city of Winnipeg is about 4.9%. The unemployment rate in my riding is 16%. Frankly, we would be disadvantaged because the geographic area for EI would be ranked at the 4% or 5% unemployment rate.

It is one of those major irritants that people in economically depressed areas feel about the EI system, and it is one of the examples of how it is not meeting the needs of unemployed Canadians.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Cumberland—Colchester, Lumber Industry; the hon. member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, Employment Insurance; the hon. member for Lanark—Carleton, Agriculture; the hon. member for Sackville—Musquodoboit Valley—Eastern Shore, Fisheries.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak to Bill C-2, formerly Bill C-44. I would like to say thanks to the hon. members from the NDP. They certainly can relate to the situation and the difficulties people have had, particularly in the Atlantic region. I know there are other parts of the country that have had a difficult times as well.

I will refer to the last question that was put to the hon. member. In southwestern New Brunswick communities that depend on seasonal workers are lumped in with bigger communities like Saint John, my riding, and Fredericton which have their own unemployment problems. That makes the numbers artificially low in areas where they are in fact a lot higher.

In Saint John, New Brunswick, they talk about the unemployment rate being around 8%. People in Blacks Harbour, which is not too far from Saint John, are lumped in with us. The unemployment rate in Blacks Harbour is 45%, but because it is lumped in with us they say the unemployment rate there is 7% or 8%. That is not fair.

We are pleased that the intensity rule is being changed in the bill. However there is a great need for other changes in the bill that have not been addressed. Our people need their dignity.

Every one of us in the House of Commons is able to go home and feed our families. We are able to dress them. Some have young people going to college. I wonder if members ever stop to think about the people coming into my constituency office who can no longer afford to feed their families. Never have my city and my riding been like this before.

Four thousand men worked at the shipyard. Those men made good salaries and contributed to the economy. Things were booming. We had the Atlantic sugar refinery before the government took it away from us and closed it down. Those men also contributed to the economy. We had VIA Rail and those men contributed to the economy.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

And women.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Yes, and women as well, the hon. member for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough reminds me.

Members should look at what it is like today. It tugs at my heart. A man who worked at the shipyard came to me almost with tears in his eyes. They no longer have EI and they do not have another job. I had never seen this before.

They do not want welfare. They want their dignity. As far as I am concerned, if they go on welfare they will have their dignity because they will not have done so by choice.

I suppose Bill C-2 and Bill C-44 were designed to make significant changes to our employment insurance system, and all of us here would hope for the better. However that is not necessarily what has happened. Most of the debate surrounding Bill C-2 relates to what has been called the intensity clause, which would see claimants' benefits reduced if they have had to seek employment insurance with greater frequency.

In Bathurst, New Brunswick, there was a former Liberal member who was in the cabinet. Do hon. members remember? I will never forget when the government brought in the new EI regulations. The people were hurting. The parish priest, on a Sunday, marched down the main street in Bathurst with the people. Never before had a parish priest done that. The hon. member who sat in the cabinet told the priest he should have something better to do on a Sunday.

Do hon. members know what happened? Because of what happened and what the government did, the member was not re-elected. Nineteen members in the Atlantic region were not re-elected. When the Liberals almost got wiped out in the Atlantic region the government said it had better do something and take another look.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

Just before the election.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

It was just before the election. The hon. member is right.

Those members who sit in the House, no matter which side, and do not have the heart to deal with the people who need us to speak out for them, to fight them and do what is right for them, should not be in the House of Commons. That is what we are here for. We are here for the grassroots man and woman so that they can educate their children. That is what they want to do.

We lose many of our people to the United States these days. They have no work here because of cutbacks in the health care system and in the educational system. There is no work in my riding because of what has happened with shipbuilding.

Tomorrow there will be an announcement with regard to shipbuilding, but it will not be made in the House of Commons. It will be made at a press conference. Shipbuilding is high tech. Frigates are high tech. When ships are built a multiplier effect takes place in communities. Steelworkers work and supply the steel. Other jobs are created because of all the equipment needed for the ships. We should be dealing with the issue in the House of Commons instead of having a press conference. I am really upset about that.

This is the peoples' House. The government should come in here with the bills and tell us what changes will be made. It should come in here and tell us if a shipyard will be in P.E.I., or Nova Scotia or Saint John, New Brunswick. It should not ask us to read about it in the newspaper. We do that these days with everything. We pick up a newspaper or turn on a TV to find out what is happening instead of finding out in the House.

Every member in the House knows that some men and women must take on seasonal work. Let us look at Newfoundland. For heaven's sake, with the storms it has had do members think people there can go out and plant flowers this week like they can in Vancouver? Do members think they can go out and plant potatoes? No. They have had snow for the last six months in Newfoundland.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

There is a ban in P.E.I. because of potato wart.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

That is right. There is a ban in P.E.I. and that will have a tremendous effect on its economy.

Because the changes to the intensity clause and the clawback are a small step in the right direction, we will join our NDP colleagues in voting in favour of the bill. However no member in the House should think for one minute that we will sit here and be idle. We will work until the government corrects the bill all the way and makes it fair and just for all the men and women who want to work.

Those people want to work 12 months of the year. Do members know how much some of them make? Some of them make $240 a week.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Some get a lot less than that.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Yes, that is right. That amount is before they pay their EI premiums and clawbacks. After those are paid they make around $200. How does a family feed a child? How does a family buy Nike sneakers for their child so they can be like the boy or girl who sits next to them in school? How do they do that on $200 a week?

There is a need for all of us in the House to come together and make those men, women and children our number one priority, not the large corporations. I am not opposed to corporations. They create jobs. However let us be fair and just.

How come the government can take a surplus of $35 billion from the workers? It does not belong to the minister or to the government. The hon. member from Newfoundland, who is sitting over there blushing, knows that. He bloody well knows that money does not belong to the government. He knows it belongs to workers in Newfoundland and New Brunswick. The hon. member from P.E.I. knows it as well. His face is as red as an apple.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

An hon. member

He is as red as a Liberal.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Yes, indeed. We will fight for an independent commission to look after that money. There is no way it should be used to pay down the debt. There are men and women who need that money. They paid into employment insurance but are not eligible to receive it.

I appeal to all my colleagues. We will all vote in favour of the bill but we will not let the issue go away. We need more changes. We need more members to speak out and to work to make sure our people have dignity.

I cannot believe someone out west would say that people in the maritimes are sitting with their hands out, that we are lazy and that we do not want to work. I cannot believe anyone would say that about our people.

When people from B.C. and Alberta come to the maritime provinces they say it is the most beautiful part of Canada and that the people are wonderful, kind and gracious. In Atlantic Canada that is how people are. They reach out to their neighbour. They help each other. We in the maritime provinces will continue to build this country and to make all Canadians equal.

I appeal to my colleagues on the government side to please take another look at the bill and to lower EI premiums for those who pay in.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

An hon. member

And to keep the service.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

To keep the service, yes indeed. It is important for employers as well. If employers pay lower premiums they can expand and create jobs. That is what we are looking for. That is what we are asking for.

I thank you, Madam Speaker, for the opportunity to speak on behalf of our people back home and on behalf of all people across the country.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Speaker, my colleague from Saint John talked about workers who take home $200 a week. Would she comment on the ones who take home nothing at all because of the changes to employment insurance?

In our country, which is supposed to be the best country in the world, there are people who do not qualify for EI from February until May. They do not make $200 a month, they make nothing at all. It is unfair and unjust. People have to go on welfare but when they start to work again they must pay the welfare back to their provincial government.

I would like to hear how the member feels about her part of New Brunswick, the province I come from. It is important that this be said here to all Canadians. In what is supposed to be the best country in the world we have people with no earnings at all. It is totally unacceptable.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Madam Speaker, I do not know what happened to the Liberals' values. I do not know where they went. The clawback of welfare is unbelievable. We are supposed to have EI for the dignity of our people. That is what it is there for. However this measure took away the dignity of the people.

A little girl came to see me at my riding office and she was crying. She asked me to help her. She told me her father did not have work and that he would need to go to the United States. She said she did not want to leave her nanny and grampy and aunts and uncles who were there. There is no way that this should happen. We need to make changes to restore the quality of life of Canadians from coast to coast.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

It being 5.15 p.m. pursuant to order of Monday, April 2, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith all questions necessary to dispose of the third reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Bakopanos)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Employment Insurance ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.