House of Commons Hansard #70 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was community.

Topics

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Does the House give its consent to the hon. member for Brampton Centre to table the documents?

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, on April 23, 1996, the House of Commons unanimously passed a motion that stated:

—that the House recognize, on the occasion of the 81st anniversary of the Armenian tragedy which claimed some 1.5 million lives on April 24, 1915, and in recognition of other crimes against humanity, the week of April 20 to 27 of each year as the week of remembrance of the inhumanity of people toward one another.

This motion was passed unanimously in the House as a consequence of debate on the motion brought forward by the then Bloc Quebecois member of parliament for Ahuntsic.

Following the passage of that motion in February 1999, our colleague from Scarborough—Agincourt brought forward a private member's motion asking for similar recognition. I regret that the Department of Foreign Affairs came up with a totally unacceptable reply during that debate. As a consequence, the then minister of foreign affairs, Lloyd Axworthy, asked fellow Liberal members of parliament to form a committee to study this issue. It was more than a study. It was to confirm the fact that the genocide took place. For some reason the minister at the time did not see fit to call it genocide.

However, in reply to my question in the House on June 10, 1999, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs said:

On behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs I wish to inform the House that together with all Canadians we remember the calamity afflicted on the Armenian people in 1915. This tragedy was committed with the intent to destroy a national group in which hundreds of thousands of Armenians were subject to atrocities which included massive deportations and massacres.

Our government introduced Bill C-19, an act respecting genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes, which was passed by the House on June 13, 2000. Subsection 6(3) defines crimes against humanity as intent to kill, in whole or in part, a national minority group.

It is the same answer I was given by the Minister of Foreign Affairs. It was defined in Bill C-19. It also happens to be the same definition of genocide as the UN's. I asked this question of the foreign affairs representative when I was on the foreign affairs committee. How come there is that same definition of genocide in room 705 across the street, but in the Chamber the same act of destroying national minorities, in whole or in part, is defined as a tragedy?

The answer that was given, which members can see in the minutes, of course, was that it had nothing to do with the Minister of Foreign Affairs. That gentleman could not answer my question about why it is that in this Chamber, destroying people in part or in whole is a tragedy, but across the street it is genocide. I am waiting for someone to give me the answer. Maybe we could all rest in peace, then, if we could know why there are two standards in the different rooms.

As I mentioned earlier, the Turkish ambassador was with us on May 28. He mentioned jokingly that he felt like a celebrity. There was a real celebrity in Toronto in the Scarborough area on May 25 when the Armenian General Benevolent Union, together with the Zorian Institute, organized a seminar. The speaker at the seminar was a Turkish scholar who accepts the fact that there was a genocide. He wonders when Turkey will do the same.

The scholar mentioned four reasons why Turkey cannot join the European Community: first, the treatment of national minorities, especially Kurds; second, the occupation of Cyprus; third, the Armenian genocide; and fourth, Muslim fundamentalists in Turkey who are getting stronger every day. His point was that Turkey will have to address these four issues before it joins the European Union.

He also said that in his mind many people such as scholars and intellectuals in Turkish universities and research centres have the same feeling, but they cannot speak up because of a fear of retaliation from the government, like we have seen in the past when even members of parliament were imprisoned. Scholars would be denied their chairs and funding and what have you in Turkish universities so that they would not be able to speak up on this issue. However, with Canada being a free country the gentleman felt free to express his point of view. I have to add that the hall was packed with 500 people who showed an interest in the gentleman speaking up. That was not the first time. There have been a few others in the past.

As I mentioned earlier, France recognized the genocide of the Armenians. The Turkish government was of course very angry and upset, which could have been expected. It was very disappointed and tried to cancel a contract with the French government. I have asked about a dozen people to tell me the monetary value of the cancellation, but so far no one can. Maybe there was an impact from it in the first few weeks, but I do not know of any dollar figure on how the French economy was damaged due to the fact that this recognition took place. The Turkish ambassador was called back from Paris to Ankara at the beginning of February this year, but I understand that he is now on his way back to France or is about to go to France. I think the issue is dead now. There are no more problems between France and Turkey because of France's recognition of this genocide.

If we recognize it in the House, I do not think there will be anything big. The House will not cave in. World War III will not be declared. It would simply be stating the historical fact that, yes, genocide took place.

I would like thank the leaders of all five parties who me gave unanimous consent to present this issue again. In that spirit I would like to ask for unanimous consent that the House accept Motion No. 285.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I would like some clarification from the hon. member for Brampton Centre. Is he seeking unanimous consent of the House to agree to the motion or unanimous consent to make the motion votable?

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is unanimous consent to agree to the motion.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Does the hon. member for Brampton Centre have consent to propose the motion?

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Gurmant Grewal Canadian Alliance Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate on the debate on the four elements of the private member's Motion No. 285. I appreciate the sentiment, the emotion and the sense of pursuing research, education and remembrance, as well as learning from the mistakes of history, which is at the heart of the motion.

Our colleague, the hon. member for Brampton Centre, did a great deal of work on this issue in the last parliament. He even caused this matter to come before the Canadian heritage committee and forced the committee to issue a report. This was no small feat.

At my House of Commons office some weeks ago, I had a visit by a delegation from Canada's Armenian community that provided me with some information. I also received information from the Federation of Canadian Turkish Associations. I highly appreciate the interest expressed by both communities in the work we do as parliamentarians.

This is a very emotional and controversial matter. My heart goes out to the families, the relatives and the survivors of this dark era in human history.

Having previously spoken on a similar motion today, I rise with misgivings about what the Liberal government is going to do with this debate. I regret I cannot be more positive in my outlook, but I do not want to try to fool anyone. I do not want either the Turkish or the Armenian people to be hoodwinked by the weak Liberal government that lacks vision. I want to be very clear from the outset that the government is not going to recognize the genocide to anyone.

Let us consider an exchange between Brian Mulroney and the late Pierre Trudeau concerning the apology to Japanese Canadians for their internment during the second world war. Mr. Trudeau said, as recorded in Hansard , June 29, 1984:

There is no way in which we can relive the history of that period. In that sense, we cannot redress what was done. We can express regret collectively, as we have done.

I do not see how I can apologize for some historic event to which we or these people in this House were not a party. We can regret that it happened. But why mount to great heights of rhetoric in order to say that an apology is much better than an expression of regret? This I cannot too well understand.

Why does Mulroney not apologize for what happened during the Second World War to mothers and fathers of people sitting in this House who went to concentration camps? I know some of them, Mr. Speaker. They were not Japanese Canadians. They were Canadians of Italian or German origin, or some old French Canadians who went to jail, who went to concentration camps during the Second World War. Why do we not apologize to them?

I do not think it is the purpose of a government to right the past. It cannot re-write history. It is our purpose to be just in our time, and that is what we have done by bringing in the Charter of Rights.

On December 14, 1994, the Liberals' position on redress was articulated by Sheila Finestone, the then secretary of state for multiculturalism and status of women. She said:

Seeking to heal the wounds caused by the actions of previous governments, six ethnocultural communities have requested redress and compensation totalling hundreds of millions of dollars. The government understands the strong feelings underlying these requests. We share the desire to heal those wounds.

The issue is whether the best way to do this is to attempt to address the past or to invest in the future. We believe our only choice lies in using limited government resources to create a more equitable society now and a better future for generations to come.

Therefore the government will not grant financial compensation for the requests made. We believe our obligation lies in acting to prevent these wrongs from recurring.

This latter quote, I believe, is most significant because this is what the hon. member for Brampton Centre is up against. He is up against his own political party on this issue. I seriously doubt that he will be successful. The apology and compensation package given to Japanese-Canadians has set a precedent. Italians and Ukrainians interned in World War I and World War II have also demanded apology.

There are many other communities and groups asking the government to redress the historical past, the wrongs done in history. Let me also remind the House of another situation.

One of the political parties in the House was in power in 1914 when 376 passengers, who were British subjects, arrived on a ship named Komagata Maru. They were not allowed to land on Canadian soil because of an exclusionist immigration policy based on race and the country of origin.

The policy had its origin in the 1880s, when the Canadian government first imposed a head tax on Chinese immigrants. The government erected a variety of barriers until 1962.

The passengers on the Komagata Maru thought they had the right to enter Canada because they were British subjects, British citizens. Ninety per cent of the passengers on the ship were Sikhs. The rest were Hindus and Muslims, but they all came from Punjab. Sikh soldiers who had served throughout the British Empire thought they should be able to work wherever the British flag was flying.

After two months of detention in Vancouver harbour, the government brought in the cruiser Rainbow and aimed its guns at the Komagata Maru. That was the first time the Canadian navy used the ship for aggression. The ship was escorted with 352 passengers still on board. It was a bitter and disappointing moment for the friends watching the ship disappear.

A voyage that began on April 4 did not end until September 29 in Calcutta, Indian, where the police opened fire and killed 19 of those passengers. Others were arrested.

In a more tolerant Canada, the Komagata Maru remains a powerful symbol for Sikhs and one that should remind others of the historical past. As a consequence, we are beginning to reassess our past. Giving attention to the Komagata Maru is part of the process.

Will the government offer an apology? I do not think so. Still, some of the candidates of the Liberal Party in the last election shamelessly used all the propaganda they could without apologizing or redressing for their party's behaviour with respect to the Komagata Maru incident.

How about the Chinese interns who are demanding a redress along with 10 or so other groups?

As I said, the hon. member is facing unfavourable odds in terms of having his motion passed by the House. He already acknowledged that the government, his party which governs this country, has double standards.

Certainly the human race should recognize the importance of remembering and learning from the mistakes of history. We should make sure that such incidents are not repeated again anywhere on this planet.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time that I have risen in the House to talk about the Parliament of Canada recognizing the Armenian genocide.

Over 1.5 million people were killed, disappeared, in the course of the Armenian genocide, a deliberate act of a government which had decided to eliminate this population.

The first motion in which I participated was in 1996. It was introduced by the member for Ahuntsic, Michel Daviault, and its purpose was the same as that of the motion today.

The motion back then was agreed to, but the government was very careful to replace the word genocide with the word tragedy.

We have now entered the third millennium. It is perhaps time that the Government of Canada followed in the footsteps of many international parliaments and had the courage to call a genocide a genocide.

There have always been governments who have taken it upon themselves to wipe populations off the map. Even here, in 1755, there was an attempt to wipe the Acadian people out of existence.

It did not succeed. It seems that, however great the desire to destroy, there is a life force which keeps these peoples alive and keeps them remembering. They remember that destroying a people is like destroying a person: it is a wound from which one does not recover.

There is a sizeable Armenian community in Laval. This is a community that never fails to amaze me, as its members are so well integrated into Quebec society, while at the same time ever mindful of who they are.

There are great-grandmothers in Laval who are survivors of the Armenian genocide and who have transmitted to their grandchildren and great-grandchildren the painful knowledge that someone once wanted them dead.

I believe that a country like Canada, which passes itself off in all international forums as a champion of human rights, has a duty of conscience to recognize the Armenian genocide.

Numerous motions have been passed, even in the Senate. One of the members of the Senate has proposed a similar motion.

Will this government have the courage to recognize the Armenian genocide? I do not believe that this government lacks compassion. What it does lack is the courage to differentiate between economic interests and values. I believe economic interests are important, but I also believe that, over and above economic interests, values must come first. If the economy is what takes precedence, we will be able to accept just about anything, and I do not believe that is what Canadians and Quebecers want.

Are there many countries in the world that have recognized the Armenian genocide?

Beginning with Canada, there are two provinces that have recognized the Armenian genocide. These two account for some 60% of the total population of Canada. Hon. members will realize I am speaking of Quebec and Ontario.

Thus, 60% of the people of Canada acknowledge that the Armenian genocide did indeed occur and must be recognized.

We will head south a little. In the United States, a number of individual states have also recognized the Armenian genocide. The ones close to us include New York, Massachusetts and Delaware. In the centre, things are quiet. However, it is not surprising to discover that California too recognizes the Armenian genocide.

What about Europe? France, Israel, Lebanon, Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Belgium and Cyprus have recognized it.

In South America, Uruguay and Argentina have also recognized it.

On June 18, 1987, the European parliament, in accordance with the guideline of the UN human rights commission issued two years previously, also recognized the Armenian genocide.

I am having a very hard time understanding why the Government of Canada is resisting what has become a matter of fact. We may well be in the third millennium, but genocides will continue. With the speed of communications, will international society let peoples disappear because a government has decided they should?

At the start of the 20th century, communications were much less sophisticated than they are now, as we know. The Rwandan massacre occurred not so long ago. There could be other ones, whether it is in Africa or in Asia. Do we not have a responsibility to act as a watchdog?

If the Government of Canada recognizes the Armenian genocide, will it not send a clear message that it will never again close its eyes on a future genocide? We cannot change the past, but we can recognize that a genocide took place and we can regret that it happened. In the future we may have to make decisions that will involve the respect for individuals, nations and our society's values.

I call on all parliamentarians to begin a personal reflection on values such as compassion and respect for individuals. None of us can reject out of hand the kind of reflection that we must make as parliamentarians and citizens.

The motion before us cannot be a votable item. I deeply regret it, but there will be other ones. I hope the next one will be a votable item, because I tabled one a few weeks ago, with the same objective: that parliament recognize the genocide.

I firmly hope that this motion will be a votable item and that parliamentarians will stand up and tell the world that Canada no longer tolerates genocides, because they are totally contrary to the human values of equality and respect.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise to indicate my own support for Motion No. 285 and I can say with certainty that all members of the NDP caucus support this particular motion. It contains language, the use of the word genocide, to describe what happened many years ago, language that we find acceptable, language which we would urge the government to adopt in its description of those same events.

We also note, as have others, that many national parliaments in Europe have recognized the Armenian genocide. The Bloc Quebecois member who just spoke I believe noted the fact that the Ontario and Quebec legislatures have done the same.

Frankly we do not understand the reluctance of the Canadian government to recognize the Armenian genocide. We think it would go a long way toward healing the hurt that the Armenian Canadian community feels.

I will speak a little later about how that hurt was aggravated not so long ago by the Minister of Foreign Affairs when he treated a question about the Armenian genocide in a very cavalier way.

Not only do I not understand the Canadian government's reluctance, but I do not understand the Turkish government's reluctance to accept that the Armenian genocide can be called a genocide without having the consequences that apparently the Turkish government would want the Canadian government to believe and without having the consequences for Turkey that the Turkish government would want people to believe.

This was something that was done a long time ago by the Ottoman empire. I do not believe that current regimes should be held responsible for what happened a long time ago, unless of course by their reluctance to call things what they were they seem to assume a certain amount of responsibility in an indirect kind of way.

I urge the Turkish government to drop its defensiveness and realize that calling a spade a spade, calling a genocide a genocide, is the beginning of a process of healing and reconciliation which we would all like to see between the Armenian community and the majority community in Turkey. This would be the beginning of a process which, in the end, would be of great benefit to their country. I urge that particular perspective to be taken seriously.

I also note that not so long ago the Canadian government, with respect to our involvement in Kosovo, was very quick to use the language of genocide when it was describing the ethnic cleansing that was going on in that community. It did not mind using the word genocide to describe what was going on and why it wanted to do something about it.

Why the reluctance to properly name something that went on a long time ago which was clearly of the nature and the magnitude that deserve the particular description?

It is sometimes said by the Turkish government that this was a civil war as if that excuses things. Recently there was a civil war in Rwanda. There was a struggle between the Hutu and Tutsi peoples. The fact that it was a civil war did not prevent the international community from saying that there was a genocide in Rwanda. The fact that something has the nature of a civil war does not mean that there are not things going on which also have the nature of a genocide.

There may be a civil war in which many people of the same ethnic or national community are killed and it does not qualify. It may qualify as a tragedy, a slaughter, a murder and everything else, but it does not qualify as a genocide. There may also be a civil war in which one group seeks to exterminate the other and it does qualify as a genocide. I submit the circumstances we are talking about warrant the use of the term genocide.

Finally I refer to what was a very regrettable day in the House of Commons. On April 25 my colleague from Burnaby—Douglas asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs a question with respect to the issue trying, as we have many times in the NDP and as have other members of other parties, to get the Canadian government to use the word genocide to acknowledge the Armenian genocide, and the Minister of Foreign Affairs did not even answer the question.

He did not even address himself to the substance of the matter at all. Instead he referred to a story in the paper that day having to do with the participation of the hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas in the protest against the free trade area of the Americas at the summit in Quebec City. He then made a joke about something that had happened at that time, something he should not have made a joke about anyway. The offence was even further compounded in the sense that it had nothing to do with the question that was asked.

That would be bad enough in terms of parliamentary decorum and procedure, and the fact that we would expect ministers to try to pretend that they are answering the question. We know they often do not answer questions, but at least they like to appear that they are addressing the same topic, not the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

When asked a serious question about the Armenian genocide, he referred to something completely different. By so doing, he did not just insult the House of Commons, he insulted the Armenian Canadian community. He in effect made fun of and mocked the concern that the member for Burnaby—Douglas expressed on their behalf.

To my knowledge the Minister of Foreign Affairs has not made amends for that offence against the House and the Armenian Canadian community. I wrote to him today calling on him to do so. I hope other members would do so as well. I certainly know that the Armenian National Committee of Canada wrote to him to express its dismay at the insult it felt on his behaviour that day.

This debate could be carried on in a serious way, with serious arguments on both sides, although I happen to think the argument for using the word genocide is a much more serious and convincing argument, than the rather weak arguments that we sometimes get from the government side.

Thanks to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, we now have an element introduced into the debate which is entirely unfortunate. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has the responsibility to clear this up, to admit that he made a mistake and that his partisan political nature got the better of him on that day when he responded to the member for Burnaby—Douglas in a way that he should not have. That would go a long way to healing the offence that was committed that day.

The greater offence that we speak about here today is the offence against the Armenian people that was committed a long time ago. We say that offence was genocide and that is what the world should call it. We say that would be the beginning of reconciliation and that the Canadian government should use that word sooner rather than later.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Bill Casey Progressive Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to talk on the private member's motion which is certainly an emotional one. I commend the member for Brampton Centre for bringing it forth.

We are often criticized, as members of parliament and politicians, that we do not do enough. This member has done a great deal to speak on behalf of the members of his community, protect their interests and try to take steps toward healing and reconciliation, especially over the Armenian crisis which happened between 1915 and 1923.

He is obviously deeply committed to this cause. I met with him yesterday to talk about it, because I was not that familiar with the issue. I wanted to get some direction from him. He spoke strongly about healing and reconciliation, and how the recognition that it was genocide would be a step in that direction. I commend him for moving the motion.

I also commend him for his recent involvement with establishing a national stamp in recognition of the Armenians. This is entirely unique. No one can say that the member is not earning his keep and doing his job. I have great respect for him and the approach he takes to all his causes.

Obviously the events between 1915 and 1923 were terrible and horrifying, resulting in the deaths of millions of people. Certainly the Armenian people suffered greatly and more than anyone else.

The Progressive Conservative Party is abhorred by any mass slaughter or killings, or anything that could be termed genocide by any country or any group, be it Rwanda or Europe. It is important that we remember these issues, and this is exactly what the motion has us all doing today. By discussing it, it will maintain public awareness to maybe help the healing process and reconciliation just by the fact that we have had this debate.

We cannot go back and relive the era, or change it or change the results. It is just a fact. However, there are things in this motion that we totally agree with, and anybody could agree with them.

One part of the motion is that we condemn acts of genocide as the ultimate act of religious, racial and cultural intolerance. I am sure that every single member of the House would agree to that, even though the motion to pass it unanimously was just turned down. This section and another section certainly would be to recognize the importance of remembering and learning the mistakes of history.

That is part of what we are doing here today; remembering some of the mistakes of history and talking about them. Not all parties agree exactly on the circumstances between 1915 and 1923. We are here to talk about them. Many of us, myself included, have learned a great deal from the debate. It is motions and activities like this that will help us remember them.

The Government of Canada has the responsibility to voice the Canadian human rights standards around the world and to take these questions seriously.

The member for Winnipeg—Transcona mentioned earlier that the Minister of Foreign Affairs did not treat a question about this very serious issue with a great deal of respect. I too urge the minister to rectify that. It is not his usual practice to treat issues like that. Perhaps it was a moment of political weakness or something like that, when he disregarded the question presented to him. In my experience with the Minister of Foreign Affairs that is not the way he would consider issues of human rights and issues like this. I hope he will correct it.

I want to commend the member for his persistence in his ongoing efforts and initiatives to support his Armenian causes and the Armenian community. He has done a great job. We admire him for very much for that.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

Gar Knutson Liberal Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to speak today in the House of Commons. Let me say from the beginning, whether we use the words calamity or genocide, we should acknowledge that the government does take this issue extremely seriously.

I want to thank the hon. member for expressing his views on the events that took place affecting the Armenian people from 1914 to 1925. I congratulate the hon. member for Brampton Centre on bringing this matter to the attention of the House.

Canada acknowledges and deplores the fact that many Armenians and others lost their lives in wars that marked the end of the Ottoman Empire. Millions were forcefully displaced under terrible conditions, a situation that led to a large number of deaths and caused indescribable suffering.

We sympathize with these Armenian victims and with their descendants, many of whom have chosen to make a new life in Canada. Canada opened its doors to many displaced people during and after that period. We will continue our traditional practice of giving humanitarian assistance to victims of conflicts in this new century.

Following extensive consultation, the Government of Canada's position on these events was articulated by the hon. member for Halton on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs in a June 10, 1999 statement to this Chamber. At that time the hon. member for Halton said:

—we remember the calamity afflicted on the Armenian people in 1915. This tragedy was committed with the intent to destroy a national group in which hundreds of thousands of Armenians were subject to atrocities which included massive deportations and massacres.

May the memory of this period contribute to healing wounds as well as to reconciliation of present day nations and communities and remind us all of our collective duty to work together toward world peace—

Our remembrance of this calamity and the suffering of the Armenian people has not, and will not, change.

The theme of reconciliation mentioned in the hon. member's statement is one that bears repeating. The world looks to Canada as a nation where people from diverse backgrounds can live together in peace. Individuals from every conceivable nation and ethnic group make up our country, and we have learned to respect each other's culture, religion, race and ethnicity. We are therefore able to empathize with the pain of those Canadians who have at one time been victimized by bigotry and oppression.

Our experience as a nation of many peoples also enables us to understand the importance of moving forward, while remembering the lessons of the past. At home this means joining together, no matter what our background, to ensure that bigotry and prejudice are not tolerated.

Every jurisdiction in Canada has enforceable human rights legislation designed to combat discrimination in areas such as employment, accommodation and the provision of goods and services. This legislation is important, but legislation alone is not enough. It must go hand in hand with a respect for the unique human dignity of every individual.

Our diversity is also one of the country's greatest assets. The strong foundation it provides has allowed us to build a Canada that is vigorous and dynamic, a Canada which has been rated consistently by the United Nations as one of the best places to live in the world.

Internationally, our heritage allows us to help lead the way toward a safer and more peaceful world. We can speak with credibility on the need to protect people from threats to their rights, their safety and their lives. We can fight for the creation of an international criminal court and know we will be listened to. We can sponsor a campaign to fight the scourge of land mines and feel confident that we will be heard. We can stand up in international fora, such as the United Nations, and talk about the need for people from different backgrounds to live together in peace with the knowledge that we speak from experience.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2:20 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Ken Epp Canadian Alliance Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House and add to the debate.

I have a great deal of empathy for what the member is doing, since this also has to do with the history of my family. I suppose I cannot expect everyone to have heard everything I have said in the House, but I have made reference to this before. For those who have heard it before, I apologize for the repetition.

Only two generations prior to me my family suffered direct persecution, mostly because of religious reasons in what my grandmother always called the old country. Several of my grandfather's brothers were killed. Criminals came into the villages at night and shot men and older boys who were able to fight. Because they were participants in the revolution, they were considered to be enemies of the revolution and were therefore killed.

I have great concern about the fact that we should not in any way minimize the magnitude of that type of human behaviour, where people with guns and power ride roughshod over very basic rights, even the rights to human life.

As a result of our family history, we have had what I would call a privilege and an honour of having our son work in some of the wartorn parts of the world, including Rwanda. He has told us stories about some of the horrendous atrocities that took place there, including the atrocities against children. The stories are beyond imagination. It is almost evil to even think of some of the things they did, let alone acknowledge that these things happened.

In my support of what the member is saying, I believe it is so important for us to raise awareness of the fact that human beings are capable of doing these things to other human beings. Hopefully by increasing that awareness, we will somehow increase the level of conscience that would prevent people from doing this.

I know in this case the member is speaking of the Armenian people. What happened to them happened to a number of other racial and religious groups around the world. Indeed, it continues even to this day. I believe Canada should be one of the primary players or interveners in stopping these activities.

There is little doubt in my mind that we are not doing anywhere near what we could or should be doing. I know we have limited resources, but we ought to be involved, not only in the prevention, education and awareness side, but when it comes to sending in our peacekeepers to stop this kind of activity.

I commend the hon. member for raising yet another example in human history in which these kinds of atrocities have taken place and for increasing awareness of them so that we do what we can to stop them in the future.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to thank all members who joined in the debate, especially those who expressed themselves in a positive way. I did not hear anybody objecting to it, but I cannot say the support was 1,000%. However I am quite happy with the content of the speeches delivered in the Chamber regarding Motion No. 285.

I will read a message the Armenian community received on April 24 from the Prime Minister. The message stated:

I am honoured to extend my sincere greetings to all those participating in the activities commemorating the 86th anniversary of the calamity suffered by the Armenian community.

Canadians recognize and deplore the demise of such a large number of Armenians during the turmoil of the First World War and its aftermath. Many survivors subsequently immigrated to Canada, and the contributions they and their children have made to Canada has greatly enriched our country. Let us thus be reminded how important it is to work together to eliminate intolerance and fanaticism wherever it appears.

Please accept my very best wishes.

It was signed by the Prime Minister of Canada. This is exactly what the Canadian Armenian community is asking for. Victims and survivors of the genocide and their children need a simple recognition that yes, a genocide took place.

I admit it happened in the last century. It happened 86 years ago in a place far away. However the Armenian genocide is the only genocide of the last century that has not been officially recognized as a genocide. Being the first, we would think people would recognize it in order to set an example for others from which to learn.

Even Adolf Hitler said “After all, who remembers the atrocities of the Armenians and who shall remember what happened in World War II to other minorities?” I regret that we did not learn from history. It was repeated from 1939 to 1945. It has been repeated since then in many parts of the world: Bosnia, the Balkans, Africa, Cambodia, all over the world. Someone gave me a figure that in the last century 95 million people died as a result of crimes against humanity.

Basically my point is that 93.5 million were recognized and 1.5 million were left out. I have no answer when people ask me why that is so, why everybody is recognized except the Armenian people.

At one point on one day we as representatives of the people of Canada must collectively come together to give the answer. We must set history right for future generations so that we can say proudly that the House spoke to the issue, spoke unanimously and spoke the truth without being revisionist and without changing history as it was in 1915.

As I said in my speech earlier, Deir ez-Zour is the Auschwitz of the Armenian people. I have been there and I hope members will get a chance to go to Syria and visit Deir ez-Zour so they will recall the conversations we have had in the House today and in previous years. I was hoping we would put an end to it today, but we will continue. We look forward to co-operation and to working together with the Republic of Armenia and the Republic of Turkey. After all, these two countries are neighbours and must live together.

My feeling was that Canada could play a positive role, but without a recognition of genocide by Turkey and the G-7 countries we cannot go forward and ask these countries to totally forget the past.

Armenians are prepared to forgive. However in order for one to forgive, someone must ask for forgiveness. We must go forward from there. Mr. Speaker, if one is to ask for it, this is the time.

I thank everyone for joining in the debate. I hope we continue the discussion after we leave this place, because we did not come to a conclusion. However I think it was a good exercise. I congratulate everyone for joining in and debating the issue.

ArmeniaPrivate Members' Business

2:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired. As the motion has not been designated as a votable item, the order is dropped from the order paper.

It being 2.30 p.m., this House stands adjourned until Monday next, at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2.30 p.m.)