Debates of Oct. 2nd, 2002

Speech from the Throne

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Secretary of State (Rural Development) (Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario)]

Mr. Speaker, I will have to talk quickly.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak to the throne speech. Despite all of the great things in the throne speech, and many of my colleagues have talked about them, I want to reserve my comments for the issue of urban and rural Canada.

One of the basic things that the throne speech recognizes, indeed, that the government recognizes and which the opposition has not even begun to think about, is that the success of this nation, the success of Canada, the success of our people, is based on the understanding that we need both a strong urban and a strong rural Canada, that if we are to be successful both of our component parts need to be strong. If we look at the reasons why and look at the contributions that rural Canada makes to this nation in employment, in what it adds to our trade surplus and in the amount of the GDP, they are all significant. The reality is that if we are to be successful in urban Canada, if we are to be successful in rural Canada, both parts need to be strong.

One of the things I was pleased to see in the Speech from the Throne was that a number of issues that involve rural Canadians were talked about directly. Those individual and particular challenges that we as rural Canadians face, in terms of geography, population density and the cyclical nature of our economy, are dealt with in the Speech from the Throne.

The member for Malpeque talked about some of them. For instance, in terms of the agricultural policy framework and related measures, there was that announcement the Prime Minister made in June, the $5.2 billion, which was to be implemented and put forward for the benefit of rural Canadians and indeed for the benefit of all Canadians.

Yes, the throne speech talked about something very critical for our rural members, and that is our regional development agencies, but it talked about more than just the regional development agencies. It talked about the need to focus programming for the knowledge-based economy, to make sure that the innovations we are talking about as a society are also applicable to rural Canadians and rural businesses so that rural citizens have an opportunity to participate in a knowledge-based economy.

The throne speech talked about some of the issues of globalization. It talked about some of the trade issues. The hon. member for Malpeque talked about this as well. It said that the government has in the past dealt with and will continue in the future to deal with those trade-distorting policies that are having a harmful impact on our agricultural industry. It talked about our softwood lumber industry and the need for us to deal with the Americans on this issue. That commitment is clearly in the Speech from the Throne. That is important for rural Canadians and rural Canadian communities that depend on agriculture and that depend on forestry.

It talked about a national infrastructure program, a ten-year national infrastructure program. This is critical for rural Canadians. We need to have the basic infrastructure built into our communities. We need to have the water, the sewers and the roads, the types of networks within our rural communities that would allow us to fully participate in the economy of Canada.

I was pleased to see that long-term commitment made in the Speech from the Throne, because I travel through rural Canada and I have an opportunity to talk to municipal leaders about their relationship with government, their need for government to provide them with the tools in order to pursue their development activities in a way that makes sense for their local communities. They talk about the need for infrastructure, whether that be traditional infrastructure or telecommunications infrastructure.

I was so pleased, and I know that members were because several of them were with me, when we made the announcement of BRAN, which will help us ensure that all rural Canadians have an opportunity to access high-speed broadband Internet so that those communities can have access to important things such as health care, education and lifelong learning in a competitive business environment.

I was pleased with the Speech from the Throne, and I know my colleagues were as well, when we saw the commitment to those important projects that we want to see take place in rural Canada. The Voisey's Bay project that will take place in Newfoundland and Labrador is a project that is going to create real economic activity in rural Canada and real jobs for rural Canadians and improve the standard of living and the quality of life for Canadians in rural Canada.

Our commitment to work in northern Canada to ensure that those gas pipelines have an opportunity to be developed and to provide economic opportunities for those north of 60 is a commitment that was in the Speech from the Throne and is one that rural Canadians applaud fully as they see that taking place.

Housing is a critical issue in rural Canada, as it is in urban Canada. Concerns with housing may manifest themselves differently in a rural context compared to an urban context. They oftentimes do. I know that the Alliance Party in trying to come to grips with this, which is not happening because they do not come to grips with this or any other policy, quite frankly, but in fact we see a policy in place to allow communities to deal with housing issues.

In summary, the Speech from the Throne is great for all Canadians and it is particularly good for those Canadians who live in rural Canada.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

It being 6.15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the amendment to the amendment now before the House.

The question is on the subamendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the subamendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

All those in favour of the subamendment will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment to the amendment which was negatived on the following division:)

[The Speaker]

I declare the amendment to the amendment lost.

The House resumed from October 1 consideration of the motion.

Iraq

[Gar Knutson, Liberal, Secretary of State (Central and Eastern Europe and Middle East)]

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to participate in this debate this evening. The House has a serious task before it.

As we debate what Canada's policy toward Iraq ought to be under the current circumstances it is essential to look back at Iraq's recent past. It is essential to speak the truth about the nature of the regime in Iraq and unfortunately the truth about the regime in Iraq is quite awful. It is an awful fact of life for 25 million Iraqis. It is a fact of life for hundreds of thousands more who have fled that country often leaving behind loved ones to face an uncertain future. It is also a fact of life for Iraq's neighbours, two of whom have been invaded in the past 20 years and for the broader region in which Iraq is situated.

The police state was born in Iraq in 1968 when Saddam Hussein and various collaborators seized power in Baghdad. With his final triumph over his junta rivals in 1978 Saddam consolidated not only his grip on power but the rein of terror he had launched a decade earlier. From that point on for almost a quarter of a century the regime in Iraq has pursued essentially two policies: the ruthless repression of its own people and military aggression against its neighbours with the aims of asserting regional dominance and acquiring territory. The result of these policies has been an unmitigated tragedy for the Iraqis and for Iraq's neighbours.

Let us first look at the regime's main domestic priority which is the preservation of its power at any cost. The government of Saddam Hussein has sought to retain its control over Iraq through the use of force, coercion and the brutal suppression of all potential sources of opposition. The basic rights of a number of ethnic and religious communities have been systematically violated. Political dissent is simply not tolerated in any form.

The forms that this oppression take have been documented in detail by the United Nations and by the international human rights organizations. Virtually the entire population of Iraq lives in fear of its government for the horrifying reason that the regime of Saddam Hussein has found that arbitrary arrest, torture, mutilation and executions are brutally effective means of crushing dissent.

Whole religious and ethnic communities in Iraq: Kurds, Shiite, Marsh Arabs, Turkomans, Assyrians and others have been targeted for vicious treatment aimed at destroying any potential they might have to organize even the mildest, most peaceful opposition to the government.

The details of how the Iraqi government runs its terrorist state are chilling. Iraq has the largest number of recorded instances of government organized disappearances with thousands of perceived opponents of the regime simply vanishing into Iraq's extensive prison system or without any trace at all. Over 16,000 cases of political disappearances remain unresolved including thousands who vanished following Iraq's suppression of the Shiite uprisings in 1991.

Iraq's security services carry out extra-judicial executions in the most brutal of fashions, killing parents in front of their children, beheading suspects on the street and using methods to terrify the survivors, as well as murdering the innocent. Interrogations are based on brutal, degrading and barbaric tortures. Punishments are routinely inflicted on entire families or communities in response to the perceived transgression of a single person. Most infamously, Saddam Hussein has used chemical weapons to exterminate whole towns; to kill thousands of men, women and children.

Despite the obstacles his government has thrown up to thwart every kind of external investigation, the international community has established without a doubt the true attitude of Saddam Hussein's regime to the Iraqi people. Faced with documentation of its brutality, the Iraqi government responds with lies.

As Max van der Stoel, the UN's special rapporteur on human rights in Iraq, explained to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights in 1999:

Nevertheless, I have continued to seek and receive information, and I have continued to report my findings. The Government has continued simply to deny everything or to offer limpid excuses even for its own laws which blatantly sanction arbitrary killing for anyone who insults the President or institutions of the regime, and laws which prescribe tortures for criminal acts like petty theft or evasion from military service. Increasingly, the Government of Iraq seems to find comfort in attacking my personal integrity—attacking the messenger since they are unable to refute the message. And all the while, there have continued widespread and systematic violations of human rights in Iraq.

Perhaps the most succinct comment on the state of the rule of law in Iraq comes from Saddam himself, who has been quoted by a former senior nuclear weapons scientist as saying “Don't tell me about the law. The law is anything I write on a scrap of paper”.

Saddam Hussein has not been content to direct his violent will against only the helpless Iraqi people. He has also directed the states' resources, counted in human lives and oil wealth, against Iraq's neighbours. Scarcely two years after he consolidated his control of Iraq, Saddam Hussein unleashed an unprovoked war against Iran. His aim was both to bolster his claim to leadership of the Arab world and to grab vast chunks of Iranian territory. Within months his campaign had bogged down and the two countries settled into one of the longest wars of the 20th century.

At the end of the war, in 1988, at least 800,000 people were dead on both sides. Some of the Iranian side died as a result of chemical weapons attacks. Others were killed when the Iraqi government began to terrorize the civilian residents of Iranian cities with massive but dangerously inaccurate missiles.

Within two years of the end of that conflict, the regime in Iraq launched another military venture. In the summer of 1990, Saddam Hussein's forces overran Kuwait and annexed the sovereign state as a mere province of Iraq. The resulting showdown with the international community led to massive population movements and the deaths of thousands before Saddam Hussein was forced to withdraw his forces from Kuwait and abandon his territorial ambitions against the country, but not before he had attacked two more regional states, Saudi Arabia and Israel, again with missile attacks directed against civilian targets.

The disaffection provoked among Iraqis by Saddam's pointless war and defeat came close to resulting in the collapse of his regime but his government responded by putting down this insurrection with characteristic brutality.

Since the end of the gulf war we have seen further evidence of the Iraqi government's refusal to conform to even minimal standards of internationally acceptable behaviour. As Minister Graham and others have noted, the government of Saddam Hussein has deliberately resisted fulfilling its obligations to the United Nations Security Council, using every available subterfuge to conceal its efforts to build weapons of mass destruction. It has also allowed the humanitarian situation in Iraq to deteriorate and ignored the efforts of the international community to remedy the situation.

It has illegally exported billions of dollars worth of oil outside the oil for food program with the aim of directing these ill-gotten proceeds to banned military projects. Together with its appalling record on human rights, the Iraqi government's diplomatic and military behaviour demonstrates that it remains unrepentant and unreformed.

While Iraq remains recalcitrant, Canada's policy objectives remain clear and unchanged. We want to see Iraq comply with its obligations to the UN Security Council and the international community. Only in this manner can Iraq resume its place among the family of nations and can the Iraqi people look forward to a brighter future after so many years of suffering.

[Peter Goldring, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Centre-East, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I want to refer to some of the comments my colleague made about disappearances, executions, beheadings and brutality. We could add to that, ignoring 15 United Nations resolutions and an entire litany of outrageous and criminal acts that have been committed.

What chance does he see for the latest rounds of inspections to be successful and have a conclusion, or should we face the inevitable that action after all will probably be necessary?

[Gar Knutson, Liberal, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I think the question basically is, why wait? Why not go now? Why give him one more chance? I think the answer is quite simply that we want to go to war as a last resort. If there is any hope, albeit a small one, that whatever forces are working in Iraq will force the president to comply, we have to give it a chance to work.

We will know soon enough whether the Iraqi regime is not acting in good faith. I think we should let the UN process take its course. We should let the inspectors go in and do their job. If it is reported that they are not being allowed to do their job we should then take the necessary action.

[Janko Peric, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have documents here of a speech delivered on September 14, 2002, by U.S. representative Dennis Kucinich at the University of California, Berkeley. He said:

Throughout 1989 and 1990, US companies, with the permission of the first Bush government, sent to the government of Saddam Hussein tons of mustard gas precursors, live cultures for bacteriological research, helped to build a chemical weapons factory, supplied West Nile virus, supplied fuel air explosive technology, computers for weapons technology, hydrogen cyanide precursors, computers for weapons research and development and vacuum pumps and bellows for nuclear weapons plants. “We have met the enemy,” said Walt Kelly's ‘Pogo’, “And he is us.” US.

Could the hon. minister make comments about those quotes?

[Gar Knutson, Liberal, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot make any direct comments on the quotes. I am not familiar with them. All I can say is that we have lots of evidence that the Iraqi regime is corrupt to the core. It is capable of the greatest brutality.

We have been given this one last opportunity hopefully to remedy it without going to war. Again, I think we have to let the process take its course.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, clearly it is great to hear the secretary of state today talk about some of the concerns that I think everyone has, especially as we discuss Iraq.

It is clear that Saddam Hussein is a bad man, and I do not think many people would disagree with that, but what I would like to hear from the government, especially the secretary of state responsible for that area, is what things he and the government have been doing to improve diplomatic relations in the area.

I understand there was a public service announcement today stating that he will be going on a junket next week to promote some economic ties in the region, but clearly there has been no leadership on this front when it comes to easing tensions in the area and trying to reduce potential spill-over if in fact we end up with military intervention on behalf of the allies in Iraq.

Maybe he could bring us up to speed. Hopefully the government is doing something useful when it comes to exerting some diplomatic pressures in the region.

[Gar Knutson, Liberal, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, I do not go on junkets, I go on work missions.

In terms of the issue, I think Canadians can be quite proud of what their government has done on the issue. When it looked like the Americans were heading down a road toward unilateral action, which basically would have put a severe split into NATO between the Americans, the Europeans and the Canadians, the Prime Minister, among others, was able to convince the Americans that they should go to the UN and that we should use that process. I think that process is working. In terms of dealing with the Iraqis, we tell them at every opportunity that we are serious.

The main thing we have done is that we have supported the international community through the United Nations. It looks like the United Nations process is working. The United Nations may have to face some very difficult decisions in the coming months but I am optimistic that the UN will do its job and that we will get through this period with a stronger international community and a safer world.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis-Et-Chutes-De-La-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to take part in this debate, first as a member of the sub-committee on human rights and international development, but also, obviously, as the member for Lévis-et-Chutes-de-la-Chaudière.

I say this because I see my role as a member of parliament first and foremost as a representative, or reflection, if you will, of our population. And, despite the fact that the make-up of Lévis, located in the Quebec City region, is 98% francophone, the people there are very worried about this possible new war against Iraq. They are very concerned because they followed what happened during the gulf war in 1990 and 1991, and subsequently.

There were a number of troubling circumstances. Indeed, Canadian and Quebec soldiers returned from the gulf sick. Apparently, they were exposed to depleted uranium. As a result, they suffered from health problems and psychological after-effects. So much so that they were compensated by the government.

Obviously, we have to be concerned about what happened to the others, particularly the people of Iraq who, in addition to the hardships of the war, suffered through economic sanctions, bombings and more. We must not forget that hundreds of thousands of people died.

It must also be realized that the concerns are now diverging. At the time, hon. members will recall that the war against Iraq was in reaction to its invasion of Kuweit. Today, what we are talking about is a preventive attack against Iraq. Preventive, because the Americans and the Bush government claim to have proof that Iraq has instruments of mass destruction. They imply that it collaborated with the terrorist groups responsible for the events of September 11, 2001. In this connection at least, it must be admitted that no proof has been made public.

Now for the point I would like to raise. I was delighted that there was a debate on Iraq as soon as Parliament got back in session. Last night's debate was interesting and worthwhile, I would say. I heard the various parties' and members' points of view. In particular, I noted that the members across the way held differing views. Many had concerns along the same lines as those of us on this side.

At 10 p.m., however, I stepped out for a few minutes only to learn from the CBC French network's Téléjournal that the Prime Minister of Canada had just given his support to the American government's attempts to obtain a new security council resolution in order to have some manoeuvring room, to have the go-ahead to take action, to attack Saddam Hussein, a mandate to do what it wanted to do. Today, moreover, we learn that it has obtained the support of the U.S. Congress for taking unilateral action if it so desires.

Even in this context, at the very same time as we are holding this debate here in the House, with the Minister of Foreign Affairs telling us at the onset that “we need to know what members think; we want to know if you have any solutions, suggestions, activities, actions to be taken”, this very same evening the present Prime Minister of Canada is in New York getting an award. His support to the American government is nearly unconditional.

Of course, he pointed out today that this support did not mean that he condoned unilateral action. Still, he supported the idea of a new resolution by the security council, this a mere few hours after the coordinator for the inspectors who will travel to Iraq reached an agreement with Iraqi authorities allowing for unconditional access to the various sites that they may want to inspect.

Today, we saw the reaction of France, Russia and China. These countries are taking good note of this openness and this opportunity.

We are parliamentarians, and those who elected us are asking us to represent them. They want us to speak on their behalf but, considering his action, it looks as if the Prime Minister is saying “Parliamentarians may talk as much as they want to, I will do what I want and decide as I please on this issue”. Of course, under the Constitution, the Prime Minister is not required to hold a vote in Parliament.

It is rather odd that in the United States, President George Bush needs a resolution and a vote by Congress, that in France, they need a resolution and a vote by the national assembly, and that in England, Prime Minister Blair needs a vote from parliamentarians, but not here in Canada. The Prime Minister of Canada claims to be a protector of democracy. We often talk about protecting human rights, but here in Canada, this component of democracy, namely a vote and the opinion of parliamentarians, is ignored.

This evening, like yesterday, we are given an opportunity to speak and we will speak. It is interesting to hear parliamentarians from all sides of this House express their thoughts, share their concerns and make suggestions. But at the same time, I sense that there is contempt toward this institution, because Canada's parliamentarians cannot vote.

Under the circumstances, this is fairly strange. When the Liberals were in opposition, during the gulf war, the former House leader and the Prime Minister said that there should be a vote before deploying troops to Iraq. However, now that they are in power, nine years later, it is no longer necessary, it is no longer required. They have had a change of heart. Of course, it is a majority government; of course, there will be a vote in cabinet, but it is the Prime Minister who chooses his ministers.

We saw what happened with the former Minister of Finance. Those who express disagreement cease to be ministers. This is a fine lesson in democracy. It needs to be said, and that is why I am saying so.

I find such an attitude contemptible. Debate is permitted, but members are not given the right to vote on it. Again today, the leader of my party twice gave him the choice. He asked him “Will you allow a vote”? His reply today was not no, but not once did he answer yes.

We have got to be careful. When there was the offensive against Afghanistan, there was no vote. Yes, there was a debate; we were allowed to talk, and yes, the members will be able to talk tonight and in the coming days. However, what good is it if parliamentarians are told they can talk, but they cannot vote? How can we defend this among our constituents, when in the United States, England, France, Australia, and in most western countries, a vote is required, but not in Canada?

I will conclude with this, and perhaps also with one more comment. Yesterday, a member from the Canadian Alliance invited us to speak up. I invite the Liberal members, and members from all parties to speak up. Doing so means not automatically saying yes to the United States, but affirming what our constituents in our ridings are telling us.

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate in this take note debate on the state of the world in Iraq.

Canadian policy on Iraq is motivated by our concern over three main issues: first, the humanitarian situation; second, Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction; and third, its failure to comply with the numerous resolutions adopted by the Security Council of the United Nations. All these factors constitute a threat to the stability of the region.

The series of events that have brought Iraqi non-compliance and Iraq's humanitarian crisis to the forefront of international concerns should also be seen in the historical context of the United Nations interventions and also its sanctions. Let us begin.

The invasion and illegal occupation of Kuwait by Iraqi forces on August 2, 1990 was swiftly condemned by the security council which demanded an immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Iraqi forces. On August 6 the Security Council adopted resolution 661 under chapter 7 of the U.S. charter, which deals with actions with respect to threats to peace and acts of aggression, imposing comprehensive, mandatory sanctions on Iraq and creating a sanctions committee to monitor the implementation of these. Unfortunately, since the humanitarian emergency in Iraq was not addressed by the Security Council until April of 1991, this ban also included food imports.

Unfortunately various attempts to negotiate an Iraqi withdrawal failed and the Security Council adopted resolution 678, authorizing the use of “all necessary means” to liberate Kuwait and giving Iraq until January 15, 1991 to comply with UN demands. On January 16 the coalition partners, including Canada, launched a massive air and ground attack, effectively achieving the UN's objective of reversing Baghdad's aggression.

On April 3, 1991, the Security Council adopted resolution 687, establishing the terms of the ceasefire and conditions for lifting the sanctions. This extremely comprehensive resolution set out eight specific conditions for the lifting of the sanctions imposed previously, including: the monitoring and destruction of all chemical, biological and ballistic missile weapons; an acceptance of a permanent, ongoing monitoring program managed by the United Nations; the monitored elimination of nuclear weapons materials and capabilities to be conducted by the United Nations special commission; the return of Kuwaitis and others held in Iraq, the missing persons; a mechanism to compensate victims for damage done by Iraq; and a pledge not to commit or support any act of international terrorism.

Although the Iraqi government pledged to comply, its actions from the outset unfortunately demonstrated extreme reluctance to implement the stated terms, and thus began a protracted contest of wills between Saddam Hussein and the Security Council which still continues today.

A full accounting of Iraq's prohibited weapons remains outstanding. Iraq consistently denied access to UN monitors, interfered with inspections and provided false and misleading disclosures. Over the years the United Nations special commission nonetheless succeeded in locating and dismantling much of Iraq's weapons capability, but not without great difficulty and disruptions of its work.

The Security Council adopted a number of additional resolutions such as resolution 706 and 712, related to the creation and implementation of the oil for food program as a response to the alarming humanitarian crisis. This program was a serious attempt to address the needs of the Iraqi people but the humanitarian operation was again hindered by Iraq itself. For five years it refused to participate at all, and when it finally did, it never gave the program its full support and participation.

I believe it would be trite to say that Iraq is one of the most repressive governments in the world. This was a strong factor in rendering sanctions less effective. The comprehensive scope of the ceasefire resolution became a problem, for it mandated Iraqi compliance across a broad range of requirements, leaving little room for partial easing of sanctions pressure in response to progress.

Rather than complying fully and promptly with Security Council resolutions, Saddam Hussein delayed and then made concessions in an expectation that the council would reduce its requirements. When these concessions did not bring results, Iraq refused further compliance.

After considerable initial progress, the UN inspection and dismantlement effort was interrupted and its inspectors were withdrawn in 1998 as a result of Iraqi lack of cooperation. However biological weapons remained a threat. The end of the inspection program created a dilemma for the Security Council and further delayed a resolution of the crisis. An atmosphere of permanent distrust, obstructions and confrontations had followed the withdrawal of inspectors and made the search for solutions problematic.

Then in January of 1999, acting on a proposal from Canada, the Security Council established three expert panels to explore options for resolving weapons inspections, humanitarian needs and missing persons and property. Unfortunately, these never functioned.

In December of 1999 the council approved a new weapons inspection system under resolution 1284. The resolution also increased the authorized volume of Iraqi oil exports for humanitarian purchases. Unfortunately, Iraq has never allowed the new weapons inspection system inspectors to enter the country.

Four years have passed since the last UN inspections in Iraq. The United Nations weapons inspectors must be allowed back into Iraq immediately so that accurate information on Iraq's capacity to manufacture and deploy weapons of mass destruction can be obtained and any reconstituted Iraqi weapons programs dismantled. The United Nations, and specifically the Security Council, remain central to the international community's efforts to find a diplomatic solution. Iraq must not be allowed to defy the authority of the Security Council any longer.

It is the Security Council that is seized with the issue and Canada will continue to work to ensure that Iraq allows the UN's inspection team back into the country as soon as possible. It is imperative that inspectors be allowed full access to Iraq's installations and programs. The world needs to ascertain that Iraq, indeed, has nothing to hide. I would further submit that the credibility of the United Nations organization has never depended more on a collective resolve than it does today.

Defiance of Security Council resolutions by the Iraqi regime has gone on long enough and immediate and resolute action must be taken. The next step is for the council to obtain immediate and unconditional acceptance by Iraq of weapons inspectors and compliance with all provisions of council resolutions.

The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Kofi Annan, has already noted the Security Council will have to face its responsibility should the threat caused by Iraq's defiance not subside. In such a case the Prime Minister and our Minister of Foreign Affairs have already stated the Security Council would have to consider appropriate measures.

In article 24 of the UN Charter the responsibility for the maintenance of peace and security is defined as a collective responsibility, discharged through the authority of the Security Council. This is what gives the decision to use force its legitimacy, but only when a collective decision has been made. When we decided to use force against Iraqi aggression in 1991, the international community sought the sanction of the Security Council. This was the proper way to proceed then and it is the proper way to proceed now.

In conclusion, I would respectfully submit that the international community must be united in its resolve to have Iraq abide by the decision of the Security Council. Such unity of purpose must express itself in a resolution of the Security Council.

[Jason Kenney, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to commend my hon. colleague for her thoughtful and responsible intervention in this debate. She reflected the struggle and the conclusions that have been reached by people among our major allies that this is not a matter which can be delayed any longer. We can no longer allow the Iraqi regime to procrastinate in fulfilling its international obligations.

Her speech elevated the level of debate from some of what we heard last night which spent a lot more time criticizing the United States than Saddam Hussein's non-compliance with the United Nations Security Council's resolutions.

My question for her is this. Heaven forbid that the Iraqi regime once again fails to comply with the UN security resolutions, either the existing ones or potentially a new one which may be forthcoming with respect to weapons inspections. Would she be willing to advise the Minister of Foreign Affairs that there should be consequences for non-compliance? Does she agree that there must be some sort of consequences, some sort of serious action taken for non-compliance on the part of the Iraqi regime should that happen?

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague from across the floor for his question.

We must remember one important thing. There is a process in place and we must follow that process. We should not conjecture what will be or what should not be. With respect to consequences, we have accepted the fact that there will be consequences. The Prime Minister has been quite clear about that. What is also important is whatever consequences there will be, will be the result of a collective decision and an act of multilateralism and not unilateralism.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I too would like to commend my hon. colleague for her insights and the useful recitation of some of the facts leading up to the present as to what has transpired in Iraq and some of the history to put it in a context of what has taken place.

Part of the issue, and she touched on it in a telling fashion, is the fact that the information as to what weapons of mass destruction may exist within Iraq. The evidence still seems to be somewhat scant and even nebulous at times. There is a document of which the hon. member is aware called “Iraq's weapons of mass destruction” that was compiled by the British government. We know that the American forces have compiled some intelligence on this issue as well which is sometimes suspect for those who are questioning the American's true intent here.

I agree with my colleague from Calgary that much of the focus last night took us away from the actual debate as to what we must do collectively as peaceful nations and what our allies and all of those involved in the effort must do to quell this potential disunity.

I know there is incredible concern for the domino effect that this could have in further destabilizing what is happening in the Middle East.

I would like to ask the hon. member what type of further evidence she believes the United Nations, in particular, should be looking for and what credible means we have to attain that? Further, and I guess perhaps important and apropos for this debate, what role Canada can play either on the inspection side or in pursuing efforts to obtain the credible evidence that we need to support the UN, to support our allies in this effort to address this very troubling and destabilizing situation in Iraq?

[Sarmite Bulte, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his question. First and foremost, the document which my hon. colleague refers to is of course a British document. It was a 54 page document that Prime Minister Blair brought to his caucus and his government.

What do we want? We want the arms inspectors in there now, as soon as possible, unconditionally, without any reservations so we can determine whether or not there are weapons of mass destruction. That is the evidence we want. The arms inspectors should be let in and Canada will help by sending in their best inspectors. Let them go in now and do their work as soon as possible and perhaps give Iraq a chance to show that there is nothing for us to worry about. The evidence that we are looking for is absolutely clear. Is there or is there not evidence of mass destruction?