House of Commons Hansard #43 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was money.

Topics

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to get involved in such a debate. It is not such a pleasure to follow my hon. colleague from Acadie--Bathurst. I have been in the House for a couple of years and I think everybody here will agree with me that no one becomes more impassioned than the member when he is talking about his constituents, about the less fortunate in this country, about the people who have seasonal employment, about people who have to depend on unemployment insurance and about how the way the present employment insurance is set up affects people. We all agree with the hon. member and we support him in what he is saying. I do not think there is anyone in the House who could say it the way he has.

Today I listened to one of the hon. members across the way talk about the employment insurance and the premiums. He said that a lot of people who work in the auto industry get very well paid. He said that the companies make lots of money so it does not matter what the premiums are. He said that even the unskilled workers were making, I think he said, $69,000 as a base rate. I must say that is pretty good. He said that they did not care about how high the premiums were.

Well, a lot of people in the country do not make $69,000. A lot of seasonal employees do not make $69,000. A lot of small businesses do not have all kinds of money to throw into premiums that are gobbled up by government and used to subsidize its abuses, such as wasting money on gun control, the unaccountability of money in relation to the EI fund itself and in the Department of Human Resources Development. It goes on and on.

We have lots of uses for any excess money that might accumulate in the EI fund within the system itself. There are two ways of looking at dealing with the ballooning surplus in that fund. One is to ask the question, why is there such a surplus? Is the EI fund not supposed to be designed so that it covers the cost of administering and delivering the program with perhaps a comfortable cushion?

Today in our country we have a relatively good employment rate, although in parts of the country that certainly is not true. Heaven knows what tomorrow might bring. We have had our ups and downs. A one or two point change in the employment rate will make an awful lot of difference to the amount of money that is taken out of the fund. We need a cushion. The recommended cushion by all the experts is roughly $15 billion, and that is quite a cushion. If we have the gun registry for another 10 or 15 years it is about the same amount of money as will be wasted, I guess, in relation to that.

Right now, as we speak, we have about $25 billion above and beyond that cushion resting in that fund, and for what purpose? We know for what purpose. It is to be dumped into the general revenue fund to make the government look a bit better in relation to its bottom line.

What about the people who paid into that fund? What about the people who are supposed to benefit from the fund? What about what the department involved, Human Resources Development, is supposed to do for the people of the country who are less advantaged?

As I said, there are two ways of looking at the fund. One is to ask the question: If the fund is growing at a rate of $6 billion or $7 billion a year, why are employers and employees paying such rates into the fund? Should the rates that they pay not be more in line with what it takes to administer the fund, to deliver the necessary programs and to have a reasonable cushion? I think most people would say yes to that.

If we have a surplus, are there not ways of allocating some of that surplus to people in need who are administered to by the department involved? Let me give members some examples.

We have a lot of small business operators in the country. One of the major employers generally, from coast to coast to coast, is the hospitality sector. The Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association and the hospitality groups are basically seasonal employers. Many of these people are not the big rich multinational conglomerates. They are small individual hotels, motels, tour operators, restaurant and bar operators who cater basically to tourists. They make their money during the peak tourist season and that varies in different parts of the country. Whether it is skiing in Jasper or Banff, whale-watching in Newfoundland or going across the Prairies in autumn, it depends on what people like. There are peaks and valleys in different parts of the country at different times in the tourism hospitality sector.

Many employees in that sector are seasonal. They are hired during the peak season. Many of these employees, especially in the summer, are students. They are hired when the colleges and universities close. They are bright, intelligent young people, first line individuals who deal with people who come to our different areas from within the country or from outside the country. They are impressive young people, some of whom speak several languages to cater to those people who come from outside.

All in all, our whole method of promoting tourism in the country is improving greatly, not because of any great input by government but because of the input by the individuals involved, small businesses that recognize they have great potential in their respective areas to sell a product from which others would love to have the benefit. They have frontline people who can do the job for them.

Many of these young people do not work long enough to qualify for employment insurance and because they are at university do not qualify to draw employment insurance anyway. However they are still paying exorbitant rates for a program from which they never benefit.

That industry has been asking for years now for a yearly basic exemption. It has said that if does not have to pay employment insurance premiums on the first $3,000 or $4,000, then it would solve a number of problems.

First, there is all the paperwork involved in dealing with a whole bunch of new employees who will only be working for a short time, who do not qualify for employment insurance and who should not have to pay into the program because they will pay in time when they graduate and start working. Second, it also puts a heavy burden on the small employer to keep track of that and pay the matching premiums.

The exemption itself would wipe out all these amounts of paperwork. It would also leave in the pockets of students who need the extra few dollars the amount that they pay into premiums from which they do not benefit.

That is just one idea on how we can help a whole sector of the economy. Everyone says that it is a great idea but year after year when the budget comes down, the government fails to address this. That is just one way.

Are there other ways that we could use this great surplus? People who draw employment insurance quite often are people who work seasonally and have to depend upon the employment insurance to get through the period of the year when work is not available.

If we look at the statistics, we will see that many of these people have not had the training that leads to full time employment. The great Department of Human Resources Development talks about its training programs. What we must do is invest in education. We must get people off the EI rolls and into the workforce. What an opportunity. Without having to go on bended knees to government or to the Minister of Finance or Treasury Board or without having to look for money elsewhere, within its own department it has all kinds of money to do what it should do. Is the department doing it? Of course not.

We are four months away from the end of the fiscal year and we have not even gone through Christmas. A number of students are preparing to go back to college again after the Christmas season. In human resources development offices throughout the country these students are being told that funding has run out. These students had been told that the department would assist in financing their education. People were told that they qualified for training allowances, that they met all the criteria and that their program was in line with what the department sponsored. Now they are now being told that there is one hitch: the funding has run out and that they cannot be sponsored to finish their courses.

This is incredible. I can understand that there might be a greater than ordinary demand for more money than the local office has to administer because of layoffs or more people suddenly got interested in an education. However I do not understand why there is no avenue for the local office to go to its regional office or to the department itself and say that it has a lot of people who want to become educated, or they want to get off the unemployment rolls, or they want to get into the workforce full time and fully trained and the office has a chance to help them. That not happening. They are told that the money has run out and that nothing can be done for them. To me that is shameful.

Who do we blame? Do we blame the poor person sitting behind a desk at the local office who has been given directions to spend what is available and that is it? Do we blame a minister who should be on the phone asking if there are more people interested in training and if more money can be spent on educating our people?

Over the year we have stressed over and over again how important it is to invest in education. As everybody knows, we have students who are paying exorbitant tuition fees. Because of high tuition fees, many cannot afford to become educated. It does not matter whether they are young or old but they want to go back and be retrained.

This especially applies to our young people. The cost of education at a university or a college has become so great that it has become turnoff. Members might say that tuition is not great and student loans are available to cover tuition. For those who do not live near a university and for those whose parents are not well off, there are all kinds of other costs. If someone lives outside the university town, there are transportation costs, room and board or apartment costs, food, furniture and all the associated costs of amenities such as the telephone and whatever. These things add up and they are all above and beyond what someone would get even if they borrowed the maximum amount available under a student loan. If a student borrows the maximum of a student loan and takes a five year or six year course, they will have a horrendous debt load when they finish that course.

What is the option? If we do not educate our young people, then we will find more and more of them on the employment insurance roll. We will find more and more of them lined up at clinics because of the conditions in which they find themselves.

Well educated people who can afford to look after their health and eat properly do not cost the same in relation to health care services as those are who are less educated and not in good physical or mental condition. With regard to our social programs that look after those on social welfare and that provide for those who are imprisoned, there is a relationship between education and the number of people involved in such institutions.

We have a choice. We invest early in our young people so they become educated and contribute to society. Through their lives they will earn money and pay income tax. We all spend what we make. Every time we buy something, 15% of it is taken off the top and put into government coffers. On top of that, we help to employ other people. The dollar keeps going around and around. That is what boosts the economy. If we do not invest in education and we have a larger percentage of people, young or old, taken out of the system, we lose on both ends. They take out more and contribute less.

To me it is a complete no-brainer. We should try to convince government that every young person should get the highest education of which he or she is capable with a properly designed financial assistance package. I am not saying we should make it free for everyone. That can be abused. However, we should make it affordable for everyone. That is entirely different.

What a country we would have after 10 or 15 or 20 years. All we would have to do is compare two students: one who is helped, goes through the system, finds good employment and becomes a contributor; and one who is not helped, is supported the rest of his or her life by the system and has no way of contributing. The figures at the end would be startling.

Another way we can use some of the money available is to assist in providing services to areas of the country where services are few and far between. I saw an example awhile ago where a regional office spent a lot of time and energy figuring out ways to cut hours from small outreach offices throughout the general region. It was thought that these offices in the outlying regions were performing services that were outside their mandates.

They were not sticking strictly to being counsellors. They were assisting people in filling out applications to different government programs. They were spending more time than they should with people who wanted to get funding for education. They were spending more time than they should in giving direction to people as to how to help themselves and their communities. All this did not fit in under the general guidelines, so it was decided they would be cut. The offices were cut down from a five day week to a four day week, depriving rural areas of the only service and government contact people had. It does not make any sense. While that is being done, there is a surplus of $40 billion dollars.

There are so many ways that money could be used to help people who are trying to put money in their piggy banks in the first place. No wonder people have become disenchanted with the government. All we can hope for is that as Christmas approaches we will see a change of attitude over there. Friday night we head home to our families. All of us can provide the amenities for Christmas. However a lot of people cannot because of the way this fund is being used.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately I will not have time to do my 20 minute speech which was next, but I would like to get a couple of points into my question.

I understand the member's hesitancy of speaking after the passionate speech from the member for Acadie—Bathurst who asked if we are proud of our $100 billion tax cut, the biggest one in history. I would say, yes, we are definitely proud that a majority of that went to people who were not high income people and proud of the child tax credit that helps poor people.

He also said that people would rather have jobs than employment insurance and of course, I agree. He talked about the gas pipeline in New Brunswick and hopefully he will support our pipeline along the Alaska Highway that would create many jobs for British Columbia and Yukon.

One of the points that no member has talked about today is the balance in the EI. There are years when we must pay out more, when the economy is much worse than it is now. The government then must pay in which means balancing that fund with the fact that we must pay extra now.

I want to applaud the member that just spoke for the most part, until the last 30 seconds. It was one of the best speeches in the House today because I have always had the same thoughts about education that he had, that it is one of the key issues, especially in the changing world. I wonder if he could talk about advanced provisions to use the fund for education and for the disabled. I had a constituent approach me who thought we could change the rules because a disabled person may get weak and may not get his number of weeks in and maybe we--

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member for Yukon, but the hon. member for St. John's West needs time to answer also.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, the member raises a great point. He also agrees with investment in education. It is not something that can be done haphazardly.

There must be a tremendous amount of time and dedication. There are many good government programs but many of them could be made better. There are new ones that could be instituted. However, if we were to throw out money and say that we have a new program and it would help certain people, and there is no real follow-through or accountability, then the programs would not be successful.

Nobody realizes how many people we have with disabilities. When the percentage of the population of people with disabilities is quoted, people think if people are not on crutches or in a wheelchair they are not disabled. There are many different types of disabilities. It could be age disability, or it could be people out of the work force so long that they are not tuned in any more. We are not catering to a lot of these people. It cannot be done in the ordinary stream. Special provisions must be made for that and I agree with the member. It is certainly one of the ways where we can target more money and help more people.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Brian Pallister Canadian Alliance Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate having the opportunity, thanks to the brevity of the previous question and answer, to make a quick thank you. I want to thank the member for St. John's West for his comments, not just the manner in which he presented them, but the comments themselves, and the way in which he conducts himself in this chamber is a tribute to all of us.

I really appreciated his comments in this respect. We know the old saying about not seeing the forest for the trees, sometimes the reverse is true, sometimes we cannot see the trees for the forest.

Government members who are on the front bench, having responsibility as cabinet ministers, deal with billion dollar items, and make large massive budgetary decisions. Sometimes they lose an understanding of the impact their decisions have on individual people. The member today reminded us with his comments of the impact that decisions on a multi-billion dollar EI fund have on individual people.

Family members must provide for other family members. There are also people who are burdened with the responsibility of protecting other people with their financial reserves.

In this country, people work in most provinces half the year to pay taxes to a government that manages them or mismanages them. The consequences of mismanagement, in a billion dollar gun registry for example, are real on the impact they have on individual Canadians.

I would like to ask the member, because I understand the difference between the government--

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. The hon. member for St. John's West.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, maybe if we were to take ourselves more seriously in the House and listen to each other instead of sometimes just listening to ourselves, we would pick up some ideas. We would understand each other as well as other parts of the country and the problems all of us face.

All of us are here because people thought we could do a good job for them. There are things that can be done collectively to help people, but quite often we get caught up in our own little world. So often we forget there are a lot of people who need help and the best people in the country to help those in need are us.

Maybe after Christmas members will come back with new year's resolutions and we will try to work for the people and not worry about our party. I saw some of the members opposite during the year become renegades and take stands to make a difference. All of us can. We are never alone. One idea can change the country and change the way people think. Maybe after Christmas we will see a different House.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Ken Epp Canadian Alliance Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have more of a comment than a question. It is about those wonderful people who work in the glass booths behind us here and provide the interpretation. I thought of that, particularly when they were interpreting for the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst. The interpreter not only interpreted the words from French into English so that I could understand, but also used effective intonations to express the pathos of the member speaking. I thought I would take these closing few minutes to thank the interpreters and to wish them a Merry Christmas.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Is there unanimous consent of the House to see the clock as 6:30 p.m.?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

6:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, on November 28 I rose in the House to ask a question of the finance minister regarding the Canada health and social transfer. My question was whether the government would consider changing it. It has been a complete policy failure.

When I talk about the CHST, I am talking about the moneys that the federal government transfers to the provinces for health, welfare and education. Because the House has been preoccupied for a number of years on the health care file and the difficulty the provinces have in delivering health care because of the huge, massive cutbacks by the federal government, I suggested that the government reconsider that transfer and identify very clearly how much money is going to health care in the various provinces.

I am not alone in this. The Auditor General suggested the same thing back in 1999. In fact, this year in September when she brought down one of her reports which was specifically on health care, again she reminded the government how can we intelligently discuss reforming health care when the Government of Canada cannot tell us how much it is transferring to the provinces? The Auditor General said in her report:

Nor can the federal government say what its total contribution to health care will be. Consequently, parliamentarians must make decisions about federal support of health care delivery without adequate information on the federal contribution.

We cannot nor would we be expected to make intelligent decisions unless we know how much is being transferred. The Auditor General has picked up on that and she went on at great length and in detail.

As evidence of this, most of us watch television from time to time, and there is an ad that is being run by the provinces suggesting that the federal government is only putting in 14% of the total health care bill. The provinces are saying they are paying 86% of the cost and the federal government is paying 14%. The Government of Canada does not know if it is 86%. It does not know if it is 85% or 84% or less. It depends on what province it is.

The point is that is a policy failure which the Government of Canada must address. Romanow recognized it. Kirby recognized it, as did Mr. Mazankowski, and the list goes on. Every time a royal commission or a provincial commission has been set up to examine health care expenditures and the role of the federal government, they have concluded, as has the Auditor General of Canada, that the federal government simply does not know.

Let us recognize that the former minister of finance made a mistake. The Government of Canada made a mistake in 1995. We want to get rid of the smoke and mirrors. Let us truthfully and conclusively, without the use of tax points which is another confusing issue, tell the provinces how much they are getting for health care. Then we can make the necessary changes to improve the health care system in Canada.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:30 p.m.

Madawaska—Restigouche New Brunswick

Liberal

Jeannot Castonguay LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for raising this issue. I will try to provide an explanation of the current situation.

The agreement reached in September 2000 between first ministers laid the foundation for the recent reports by all 14 jurisdictions—federal, provincial and territorial—on comparable health indicators. This is related, somewhat, to the point raised, about the importance of accountability.

All 14 reports were released on September 30 of this year. Some reports in the media referred to them as “report cards”.

The mandate provided by the first ministers to their health ministers was clear. It was to begin a process of comprehensive and regular reporting to Canadians. This reporting is not only to inform Canadians about their health and health system, but also to provide valuable information for governments and health care providers, allowing them to make better informed choices.

These reports were examined independently by the various auditors general in order to ensure the highest possible degree of reliability of the information.

Before mentioning a few of the highlights of those reports, I want to underline the very high degree of cooperation between all jurisdictions in producing these reports, the first of their kind.

What have we learned from these reports about health status? The federal report shows that Canadians are living longer than ever, and have one of the highest life expectancies in the world. Life expectancy for Canadians reached 79 years in 1999, compared with less than 75 years in 1979.

Compared with other developed countries, the proportion of babies born with a low birth weight is relatively low.

What have we learned about health outcomes? That the potential years of life lost due to heart attack, such as acute myocardial infarction, or unintentional injury have declined significantly from 1979 to 1999.

What have we learned about the quality of services? In the area of patient satisfaction, Statistics Canada survey data shows that more than 84% of Canadians rated the quality of the overall health services they received as being either excellent or very good in 2000-01. An estimated 88% of Canadians reported having a regular family physician in 2001.

There is still room for improvement, but at least we have an idea of where we are at in the area of health.

This is a first step toward public accountability. In two years' time, the same exercise will be undertaken. The provinces will strengthen the agreements between themselves in order to establish a base for comparison and to be accountable to Canadians. This was, incidentally, one of the recommendations in the Romanow report. He said, “Accountability must be improved”.

I completely agree with this and I believe that this is one of the points raised by my colleague. There must be accountability to Canadians when it comes to how public funds are spent. It is their money. We must administer and manage it well. That is what we intend to do in cooperation with the provinces and territories.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative New Brunswick Southwest, NB

Mr. Speaker, was it not Mark Twain who said that we have lies, damn lies and statistics? We can talk statistics all we want but the fact of the matter is that we have a complete policy failure on the part of the Government of Canada, recognized by all health officials across the country and all premiers. Unless we know what we are paying on the service, how can we improve it? The system will simply gobble up new money unless we have an accounting process that actually works.

I want to identify three other policy failures that give the House examples to show that this is not the only one engineered by the would-be future prime minister, the former finance minister. Let us take a look at them: the gun registry, a billion dollar boondoggle, not working; the HRDC fiasco, a billion dollars gone missing, unaccounted for; and the CHST transfer, with billions going in, but the government does not know how much.

Therefore, why will the government not change that system and clearly tell the provinces how much it is putting into the health care--

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jeannot Castonguay Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, first, I am very happy to hear my hon. colleague state that statistics can be made to say whatever we want them to. This is frequently what happens when the provinces talk about the federal government's contribution of 14%, when it is quite clear that this is not the case.

That said, I am not entirely in agreement with my hon. colleague about needing to live in the past and stir up stories from the past. I believe that we have to look forward and improve the current system. We know quite well that there are problems. There will always be problems. We are human, we do not live in a perfect world

However, we took steps in the right direction when we decided to work together with the provinces to become more accountable to Canadians. We are on the right track and we will continue in this direction under the current government.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Ken Epp Canadian Alliance Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to pursue further the question I raised in the House on November 29 on a Friday afternoon when things are very exciting around here.

The question I asked had to do with the amount of money that the government spent on advertising at the Grey Cup. I proposed that the government should not be wasting a bunch of money advertising itself since it is not likely to go out of business. The government is wasting a lot of money on advertising, which more properly should be spent on health care.

The Minister of Public Works and Government Services, in his response to me, said that he would be happy to provide the details with respect to this matter in response to an Order Paper question, so of course that is what I did. I am expecting to have an answer to this question with respect to how much money was spent on advertising at the Grey Cup and also some defence of the government on its wasteful spending on advertising.

This question actually arose because a constituent of mine raised it with great irateness and, I would venture to say, even a small degree of anger. He went to the game, where someone, on behalf of the government, was handing out little knick-knacks with Canada put on them. That is great and we are all happy to be Canadians, but as I said in my question on November 29, we are reminded that we are Canadians every time we look at the deductions on our pay stubs. We do not need to remind ourselves that we are Canadians.

We recognize that the government has to spend a certain amount of money in advertising some of its programs and so on, but generally the advertising done at sporting events does not advertise any specific program. It is just simply a “feel good” type of advertising, which I think has limited value.

One of the things we are really concerned about is the huge waste. Of course the minister made reference to the fact that in this particular instance the government did not use any advertising agencies, that it was done internally. I guess once in a while we need to give the government grudging applause for some of the measures it is taking. The fact that there was not a Liberal-friendly firm getting a cut out of this is at least a move in the right direction, but still, the money is spent excessively.

Even despite the fact that the government is saying that it is reducing its sponsorship programs and its advertising, we found out that Groupe Everest, for example, is still getting a lot of money. It still gets $3.5 million per year in order to engage in advertising. There is some indication, in a secret report that the government has, that it charged in some instances up to 43% commission on the advertising it handles, which is a very high rate of commission.

We find the government advertising in the Attractions Canada portfolio, $500,000 worth in the VIA magazine. It does not advertise a specific program, it just says, “Hey, feel good, we're Canadians”. There is subliminal advertising there that says, “Hey, isn't it great to be a Liberal”. We object to that. We think that ought not to be done.

With that, I eagerly await the response from the parliamentary secretary.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:40 p.m.

Mississauga South Ontario

Liberal

Paul Szabo LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services

Mr. Speaker, tonight's intervention will represent my final duty as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services, as my two year term has come due.

I would just like to share with you, Mr. Speaker, that the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has become affectionately and respectfully known as the “closer” for the way in which he has subdued the difficult challenges of the department he took over.

I want to first address the specific question the member raised with regard to the CFL.

For the 2002 season, yes, the Government of Canada did sponsor the CFL for $1.2 million in exchange for opportunities to raise public awareness and understanding of the Government of Canada's priorities, programs, services and access channels, as well as to increase the presence of the government through this very popular national sport.

The opportunities received in exchange for this sponsorship, which is what the member asked about when he asked what the value was, were not just “feel good”. It included: Government of Canada theme days; a link to the CFL website; information on programs and services included in the game programs; a Government of Canada kiosk at the Grey Cup; and signage at each 2002 CFL playoff game and also at the Grey Cup game.

As well, part of the $1.2 million sponsorship was used for a dollar for dollar visibility exchange with VIA Rail. In return, the Government of Canada receives visibility and promotional opportunities from VIA Rail, such as displays with information on the Government of Canada at train stations and brochure inserts in VIA's magazine.

The sponsorship plan and the exchange with VIA Rail allow a better value for money and increase the opportunities for promoting our programs and services for all Canadians. This exchange is laid out in a formal letter of agreement, a binding legal contract between VIA Rail and the Government of Canada.

The Government of Canada continues to examine possibilities for more comprehensive changes to the sponsorship program. The member is quite right: there are difficulties but, Mr. Speaker, I want to assure you that the “closer” is on the job.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Ken Epp Canadian Alliance Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, I find this quite incredible. Whenever I think of spending money, even out of my office budget, I always think, “What about those people in my riding who work as hard as they do, then have taxes on top of all of their other bills and are having trouble making ends meet? Should I really be spending their money this way?” Yet here we have the parliamentary secretary who just flippantly says, “Yes, we spent $1.2 million on the CFL”.

The fact of the matter is that no one looked at an ad in the CFL in order to find out where to go to collect unemployment insurance benefits, or employment insurance benefits, as they are now inappropriately called. Nobody got information directly on instructions to do this or that because of the government making an announcement. It is in every instance just a case of feel good, it really is.

The parliamentary secretary should take back the message to the minister that he ought to fix that part of it and stop wasting millions of Canadian taxpayers' dollars.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I understand the concerns the member has raised. We have a disagreement about what the purpose of sponsorship programs is.

The program gives the Government of Canada an opportunity to raise awareness of its programs and services through its support of worthy cultural, sporting and community organizations and activities all across Canada.

In September 2002, the Government of Canada did sponsor the CFL for the two final games and the Grey Cup for $1.2 million, for visibility reasons and to advertise our website, as well as the 1-800-OCANADA number. The results from that, and the feedback, are absolutely astounding.

I think the best way that I can convince this member about the importance of our sponsorship program and about the services that we provide is to invite him to join me for a personal tour of our cell banks, our call centre, and our sponsorship area, where he can see just how many Canadians value this very important service.

Committees of the HouseAdjournment Proceedings

6:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:48 p.m.)