Debates of April 16th, 2002

Government Expenditures

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I explained in the House yesterday that the jets we had were very old and needed to be replaced. Two were replaced. The Americans bought 20 of those types of planes for the same type of job we have to do.

Members of the opposition have travelled many times on these jets while doing their business in Canada with ministers.

In terms of debt, we are the only country in the western world that has managed to pay the debt in the last few years. In fact by the end of this year we will have perhaps paid almost 10% of the national debt over the last four years. We have the right to--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, buying luxury jets when the military tells us the existing ones are fine is wrong. Buying luxury jets with gold faucets when our soldiers in Afghanistan waited for weeks for porta-potties is wrong. Buying luxury jets when even today the auditor general tells us that the government needs to refocus its defence spending is wrong.

Could the Prime Minister explain to Canadians why buying luxury jets for his cabinet is a priority when our soldiers in the field do not even have the proper equipment?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, his seatmate said on TV yesterday that these jets were not very luxurious. The ministers, the Governor General and sometimes military people use these jets. I think we had to replace them.

Three times in the last year I had to make three urgent landings because there was something wrong with the planes. It was decided to replace them. On top of that, these planes will permit cabinet ministers to go to places they could not go before. We want to use them to make sure the government is close to the Canadian people.

[John Reynolds, Canadian Alliance, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's chief election adviser and his top guy, Warren Kinsella, said that he would have advised against buying the jets because the waste of tax dollars was hard to spin politically.

What has happened to the Prime Minister? He used to criticize governments for this type of selfish spending and now he is authorizing it. The Prime Minister criticized the spending of a former prime minister on a luxury jet and now he is buying them for himself.

After almost nine years in office, has the Prime Minister forgotten all the promises he made to the Canadian people?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when the leader of the opposition was with the Tories they bought many planes at a time when we had a $42 billion deficit. We waited until we had paid off over $35 billion of the debt before we bought new planes. After 19 years, new planes were needed. Security demanded them and the ministers are using these planes very effectively.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the government tried to justify spending an extra $25 million on these luxury jets by saying that part of it was for pilot training.

We have learned that for each jet purchased the training for two pilots is free; covered.

Just exactly how many pilots are we training?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, let me do this again for the benefit of the hon. member. Most of us understood this yesterday.

In addition to the purchase of the plane, and the hon. member asked about that yesterday, there is equipment, such as communications hardware, electronic equipment, flight data recorder, monitors, security equipment, communications equipment, provisioning of parts, ground support equipment, installation of security and of course pilot training. All those things are there.

[Grant Hill, Canadian Alliance, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister said parts, taxes and pilot training. He backed away from taxes. He is obviously backing away from pilot training because four pilots are trained for free.

I ask him again, how many pilots will we be training? How many?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, obviously if we are purchasing aircraft, everyone who flies the fleet has to be able to fly the plane. Otherwise, what is the purpose? The hon. member should understand that. Believe it or not, I am told the hon. member even has a pilots licence himself so he should know better than to suggest that pilots should not know the kind of plane which they will be flying.

Kyoto Protocol

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister confirmed that Canada lacks the political will to ratify the Kyoto protocol within the promised timeframe. The Prime Minister stated that Canada would like to ratify Kyoto “one of these days”. In other words, this means that the government no longer has a deadline, which is clearly at odds with its firm commitment to ratify the Kyoto Protocol in 2002.

Will the Prime Minister stop playing on words and recognize the major setback that he has caused with respect to reducing greenhouse gas emissions in Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said that we hoped to ratify it in 2002. I did not say that we would ratify it in 2002, but that we would work to ratify it in 2002.

Unfortunately, the consultations with the provinces and the private sector are not over. We will not make any decision without taking into consideration the views of the provinces and the private sector. We plan on doing everything we can to ratify the Kyoto protocol, but we need the co-operation of the provinces.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knows very well that the consultations should be in connection with the implementation of the Kyoto protocol, not the ratification. Putting off the ratification indefinitely is part of the agenda of the Prime Minister, who stated yesterday that he would like to ratify Kyoto, not in 2002, but “as soon as possible”.

With global warming now a reality, rather than trying to sidestep the issue, will the Prime Minister go back to his good intentions and state once again, clearly and unequivocally, that the Kyoto protocol will be ratified in 2002?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite happy to hear the member say “Never mind the provinces”. We are taking note of this. At some point, his advice might come in handy, but I think that we would be wise to talk with the provinces before ratifying the agreement. The provinces should know, however, that the Bloc Quebecois and the NDP would like us to act against their advice. This is good to know.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government is obviously showing serious signs of wavering regarding the Kyoto accord.

Does the weak position that the Prime Minister is taking not explain why a number of Canada's international partners, including G-8 members and the European Union, are extremely disappointed by Canada's attitude regarding the Kyoto accord?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister explained, there is no change in the Canadian government's position.

It goes without saying that the issue of credits for the sale of clean energy to the United States is very important to us. We are waiting for the Europeans to realize the importance of this issue. So far, this has not happened, but we continue to try to persuade them.

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government may claim that it does not lack leadership, but the Suzuki Foundation, Greenpeace and the Association québécoise de lutte contre la pollution atmosphérique are all condemning the government's attitude.

What is the Prime Minister waiting for to wake up and truly assume his role by expressing his government's determination to ratify the Kyoto accord in 2002 and take the necessary measures to reduce greenhouse gas emissions?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the policy of the Canadian government is very clear: we want to have effective consultations to thoroughly examine issues with the provinces, territories, affected industries and Canadians. We must have a plan whereby no region of the country is going to be more affected than others. These two things are very clear. The Prime Minister said it repeatedly since last year. I think he mentioned it in Italy, back in June. There is clearly no change in the Canadian government's policy.

The Environment

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canada made the commitment in 1997 to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 6% below the 1990 level.

Five years later what do we have? We have the government madly backpedaling, hiding behind 11th hour consultations and casting blame everywhere except where it belongs, on itself, while it continues to pose as the great champion of the environment.

What will it take for the government to ratify Kyoto or has one day now become probably never?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member simply has not paid attention to this file. The government's position was stated in June last year. It was that we wished to ratify this year and we would do so only after full consultation with the provinces, the territories, industry and the Canadian public, and in addition, that we would have a plan that would not unduly hurt any region of the country.

Those are suggestions which the NDP opposes. Fair enough. However those are the types of conditions we feel are important before we make a decision on ratification.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, maybe we can actually get the minister to do the right thing on another environmental issue.

The government is currently discussing with British Columbia the lifting of a 31 year moratorium on west coast offshore oil and gas exploration. Citizens are deeply worried about oil and gas exploration putting the environment, fishermen and coastal communities at risk with no guarantees whatsoever that the results of exploration will justify the risks.

Will the environment minister pledge today to keep the moratorium in place? Will he do his job and protect the environment?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, here we have the leader of the NDP once more saying that on an important issue we should not listen to anyone and that it is okay just to proceed unilaterally, and if someone has a better idea or a different idea it should not be considered. I would like her to recognize that democracy consists of listening to people, something she is not very good at.

Democracy suggests that no matter whether we ultimately agree or whether we ultimately do not agree, at least we are open to the suggestions of the people of Canada. We know better the approach of the New Democratic Party which has been so destructive to the province of British Columbia over the last decade.

Health

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1998, when the federal government was denying health care money to hospitals and provinces, Health Canada began a process of parceling out $17 million in hidden contracts to a company called Innovaction. This was clearly designed to avoid legal reporting requirements.

Will the Minister of Health tell us why this process was followed? Why were there no precise written contracts? Why was there no tender?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am well aware of the auditor general's comments in relation to this situation. We are undertaking all the necessary steps to ensure that our contracting procedures in the future will be in full compliance with standards set down by treasury board.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the health minister could tell us how many other contracts in Health Canada have been awarded this way?