Debates of Jan. 27th, 2003

Iraq

[An hon. member]

No.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

We always have. It is a question of confidence in the government. The government, in matters of that nature, makes the decision and goes to the House of Commons for the support of the House of Commons. It is the process that has been followed in Canada for a long, long time, and that had been followed in the case of Kosovo a few years ago, when we were in a formal war at that time. We intend to follow the same process in the future.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the foreign minister has said that Canada will “support the United Nations system as much as we possibly can”. Shades of Mackenzie King: The United Nations if necessary, but not necessarily the United Nations.

Will the Prime Minister show Canada's unconditional support for the United Nations by making it crystal clear that Canada will not go to war without the approval of the UN Security Council?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is exactly the position we took in August last year. We asked the Americans to follow the process of the United Nations, to go and seek the authorization from the Security Council. They were very hesitant to do that last summer. We talked with them and we talked with the others. We talked particularly with the Prime Minister of Great Britain, who went specifically in October after we had a discussion. He went, and I think Canada played a role in convincing the Brits, to make it very clear that they have to have a resolution from the Security Council.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Now, Mr. Speaker, this is the question for today.

Why does the Prime Minister insist on concealing his intentions on the issue of a war in Iraq? Will the Prime Minister commit today to saying no to war without the support of the United Nations, yes, or no?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see that the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party is against going to war under just any circumstances. He says we must act in conjunction with the United Nations; that is exactly the position taken by our government. A resolution was passed unanimously and must be complied with. It is up to Saddam Hussein alone to comply with it. The resolution sets out what must be done if he does not respect the conditions.

Health

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government's contribution to the health care system has diminished over the last decade. In fact it is at the point that Canada is ranked only 30th according to the United Nations. The provinces are on the front line of health care delivery and actually they began health care reforms while the government turned its back.

Will the government give the provinces the flexibility they need to use the new funds to their very best use?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, to suggest that the government turned its back on the challenge of health care reform is nothing short of outrageous. The hon. member forgets that in September 2000 an accord was signed by first ministers, in which the federal government agreed to put $21.1 billion new dollars into the health care system.

The Prime Minister and I have also made it plain that next week at the first ministers meeting the federal government will be putting additional new funds into health care. We are very aware of the challenges that the provinces, territories and Canadians face in ensuring we have a high quality health care system, and we will be there to do our fair share.

[Rob Merrifield, Canadian Alliance, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, factoring in inflation, we still are not back at 1993-94 levels when it comes to funding.

The Prime Minister wants a national health council. Canadians want better access to doctors, better access to nurses and better access to MRIs, not more bureaucrats or advisory councils and, please, no more studies.

Will the Prime Minister take the health councils off the table when he meets with the premiers next week?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, no one is suggesting more bureaucracy, but what I find very interesting is that the hon. member chooses to ignore that what Canadians have said over and over again is that they want increased accountability. They want increased accountability in terms of how much money is spent in our health care system and where it goes. Are we getting better health outcomes? Are we cutting those waiting lines? Do people have better access? Canadians have told us they want greater accountability from both levels of government.

Iraq

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the present state of affairs, there is nothing to justify the government's committing Canada to rushing headlong into a war without the adoption of a Security Council resolution authorizing an offensive in Iraq.

Before sending troops into Iraq, even with a second UN resolution, will the government acknowledge that it is essential for this decision to first be voted on here in this House?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has answered this question clearly. He has said that we will be consulting the House. We in this government have always consulted the House.

The bottom line for the government is to keep in mind its responsibilities toward the Canadian public that elected us. We will be assuming our responsibilities as a government in consultation with the House, as we have in the past.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we do not want to hear any talk about consultations or take note debates. What is needed is a vote in the House by the people's elected representatives.

I would remind the Liberals that before they took office all decisions relating to sending troops into combat were voted on in the House. Recently, this approach was used for the Kyoto protocol.

So, does the Prime Minister consider that sending troops should be equal in importance to the environment? Does he intend to submit this issue to a vote in the House? It must be kept in mind that the elected representatives who are here are the voice of the people. Is the Prime Minister going to let that voice be heard?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the formula for debating matters of this type is already set. It has remained unchanged since 1993. We have always held a debate in the House.

When the House is not sitting, we have always held consultations in parliamentary committee. This is an established formula and one the Prime Minister, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and myself in my capacity as House leader are committed to following in the same way in the future.

Health

[Scott Reid, Canadian Alliance, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, from the moment this government came into office, cooperation with the provinces on health care reform went the way of federal contributions to health care, that is, it diminished.

The Kirby and Romanow reports were supposed to signal a new cooperative approach; instead, this government missed this opportunity and has since resumed its old political habits in matters of health.

Will the Prime Minister explain why he angered the provinces by giving them a federal unilateral ultimatum on the eve of the health ministers' meeting?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in October 2000 we reached an agreement that was approved by all the premiers, which provided for an increase of more than $21 billion over five years. We are having a meeting next week and I intend to do the same thing.

However, the position of the Government of Canada is to ensure that the money put on the table will truly be used to renew health care services for Canadians.

We warned the provinces before and they have held a meeting before. We told them about our position before so that over the next few days we can find common ground. I am quite confident that we will come to an agreement next week.

[Scott Reid, Canadian Alliance, Lanark—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the position of the Prime Minister over the past nine years has been to pay less and less into health care and demand 100% of control. At 14% of funding for health care in the country, the government wants to set all the rules.

That is the wrong approach. The Canadian Alliance believes that is the wrong approach. We propose that Ottawa work with the provinces to help them meet their individual health care needs.

Will the Prime Minister drop the federal government's one size fits all and do it or else approach and instruct the Minister of Health to work with the provinces to deal with their diverse health care needs?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health has been in touch with her colleagues for weeks and weeks, discussing what should be the priorities to have a better health system in Canada.

The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has met and discussed this with his colleagues. He has also had some private discussions with some of the premiers.

I am telling the member that I am hopeful of having a meaningful agreement. We are willing to put some more money on the table, but we want to make sure that the money is used in order to really improve the system, and yes, it is very important that we have service 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, for the people of Canada and we will take the--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Hochelaga—Maisonneuve.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Premier of Quebec showed enormous openness yesterday with regard to the new budget for structuring health care.

Is the federal government willing to show the same openness as Premier Landry by allowing the provinces to set their own priorities?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, very often, the provincial governments and the federal government have similar priorities; this is normal. We all want better health for everyone. However, we must ensure that the money the federal government has put on the table will actually be used, in each province, to achieve the objectives that all Canadians want to achieve.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Quebec has prepared a plan to increase direct patient care, rather than make the health care system more unwieldy.

Does the federal government agree with this openness from Quebec, and does it intend to fully help Quebec to achieve its goal of making patient care a priority?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the largest sums allocated by this government over the past several years in all sectors have been in health care.

I want to inform the member for the Bloc Quebecois that the province in which the provincial government spends the least per capita on health care is Quebec. All the other provinces, including Newfoundland, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, Manitoba, and New Brunswick, which are not considered wealthy provinces, spend more per capita, in provincial funds, than the PQ government.

Immigration

[Diane Ablonczy, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the government virtually ignores the 12 million legitimate refugees worldwide. Instead, the Liberals spend the vast majority of resources on claimants without UN validity.

Government officials admit most are undocumented or have false documents supplied by people smugglers. Thousands each year disappear into our communities with no tracking and do not even bother to show up for refugee hearings.

Why has the government lost track of 25,000 refugee claimants?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question. However, she could have done her homework more thoroughly.

First, we send back over 8,400 people every year. Second, we cooperate with police forces. For example, in Toronto, during the holiday season, over 60 warrants were issued and resulted in a number of arrests being made. So, work is being done. We do not have policy for monitoring people entering and leaving the country, but security is extremely important to us and, in that sense, we are doing our job.

It is an ongoing issue, so what we have to do, we are doing.