House of Commons Hansard #62 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was parties.

Topics

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Deborah Grey Canadian Alliance Edmonton North, AB

Mr. Speaker, on budget day, when we talk about money, one would wonder what unbelievable sums of money Bill C-24 will take out of the hands of taxpayers.

I was amused by my colleague for Ottawa Centre. In fact he is my member of Parliament when I hang around Ottawa. He seemed absolutely indignant that anyone should even question the government having nothing but good healthy motives. He will have to read the Hill Times because several of his colleagues are in it and are pretty concerned about the bill.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in their caucus room as they discussed this. He said that it was transparent and I think he meant that in a very health way. However as soon as Canadian taxpayers find out more and more about it, they will find it transparent all right. They are asked to show their pockets and send the cash.

There will be unbelievable amounts of money flowing into Ottawa for the political purpose of taxpayers, rightly or wrongly. Some support political parties and some do not. We know that. We had a tremendously low voter turnout in the last election. Now they will be told from on high to send in a subsidy of $1.50 a vote to political parties, in addition to corporate donations.

It is unbelievable if one thinks about it. It will be transparent all right. It is transparently ridiculous for a government to do this for such little reason. Nobody knew this was on the horizon, even the Liberal caucus. It was a great surprise. I know the Prime Minister has surprises up his sleeve but it is pretty hard to believe that this legislation would be brought in during the last year of the Prime Minister's mandate. It does look a touch personal, I might say, that he is going to start sticking it to colleagues and/or friends.

Let us just look at a few items and characteristics of the bill if one were to answer the question; what is this bill about? We could say that first, Bill C-24 would restrict the amount of contributions allowed to political parties, riding associations and candidates, including candidates for nomination or party leadership. We know one has to get the nomination first to run as a party candidate.

Second, it would compensate political parties for the anticipated loss in revenue from large corporate and union donations. I am not sure how it would gain and a donation would be lost but anyway I am sure somebody has that math figured out.

Third, it would extend the regulatory aspects of the Canada Elections Act in terms of registration and financial accounting to riding associations as well as nomination and leadership candidates. It does seem passing strange that there would be a leadership race underway while this legislation is going through.

We could look at it and say that it almost makes sense. There are three criteria in it and it sounds like it is a good thing because it would in fact be making it more transparent. Corporate donations would not be banned totally but certainly lessened to not very many thousand dollars.

Then we know how the oil of this place works. We know how the wheels of political parties and leadership races are greased. We know also that even if these corporations are not going to be getting receipted paperwork for making contributions, I think all of us understand and not one of us is naive enough to think that the money will not be flowing anyway. I am certainly nervous that the money will start going under the table and there will be absolutely no accounting for it.

The Canadian public should start thinking about that. It is not just a matter that the corporation cannot give money anymore, even if it is appreciated and the money buys influence, but “hey, wink, wink, how about if you tuck it in my pocket under the table”. No one will have any idea where the money is. As well, neither will the Canadian taxpayer who will be on the hook for it.

My colleague for Ottawa Centre called it transparent. He should just let us know what it really is. It is a tax and it is nothing more than that. It will be a tax on every Canadian taxpayer, many of whom choose not to participate in the political process. One has to respect them for that.

My life was profoundly changed after I sat at coffee tables for too many years whining and complaining about the government. Somebody told me to get off my duff and do something about it. Here I am being long in the tooth in Parliament but certainly being involved in the political process. Many people choose not to do that but they certainly have that right. It is sad because it is better for the country if people become involved.

If people choose not to be involved in the political process, they get it in the left ear anyway. They get stuck with tax credits if they choose that, if they do not they do not get tax credits.

I am sure many Canadians knows this. We certainly in here know how the rules go. If I get 15% of the vote, I get 50% of my expenses back. Who pays for that? The Canadian public. Then political parties get a certain percentage back as well. There are already millions of dollars flowing from the Canadian taxpayers. We estimate it is up to about 60% of political financing. Now the bill will increase that to 70% or 75%.

I think there will be several million people out there saying that they can take care of their own money and that the government should keep its paws off it. They have too many taxes already and this is nothing more than a tax. The government will call it a subsidy, cleaning up, transparency or any pretty word of which it can think. However make no mistake, and we need to be pretty clear on this, this is nothing more than a tax on the Canadian public.

The government should be ashamed of itself. I would love to know if it will put it in its budget this afternoon or if it will just show up somewhere, sometime when we least expect it.

I would like to make reference for a couple of minutes to the Hill Times . I will read a couple of excerpts from it. On Monday, February 17, in the “Money & Politics” Issue, it states that political “Parties will be rolling in the dough”. The subtitle is “The Libs will get an extra $3.43 million and the Alliance will get an extra $4-million”. It would be easy to sit in here, celebrate and say that we just won the lottery without even buy a ticket.

Who pays this money? Every person who files and pays tax to the Government of Canada. Every person will chip in a little for it. Will people not be happy thinking they did this? They are already getting stuck for millions of dollars. If people looked at that subtitle, they might think that if the Alliance were to get an extra $4 million, why would it squawk about it? Why would it not just keep its mouth shut and take the cash? Four million dollars is a lot of money.

I know you have probably read this cover to cover yourself, Mr. Speaker, but if you look at contributions from corporations and unions, the Liberal Party received contributions of $6,691,000 from corporations. That is a pile of cash. The Alliance received $874,000, which is considerably less. Because of that we would get the subsidy top up. One would think we would just keep our mouths shut and take the cash. One could hardly do that with a clear conscience.

We are fundamentally opposed to the bill because we think that those who choose to be involved in the political process should be free to spend their money on it and those who do not take whatever government they get.

A whole new tax regime would be put into place under this wonderful guise of it is a good thing to do, it is transparent and the corporations will not have so much of the ear of the government. Let us talk about Groupaction. Let us talk about sponsorship programs. Let us talk about all kinds of corporate welfare. I know it is just my naivety and a sense of clear irony I am sure, but when we look at the Elections Canada list, those who get these enormous contracts from government are hefty donors to the Liberal Party. It is kind of like the price of doing business.

I find this is wrong. I think it is irresponsible of a government to say “send in the cash”. We need to fight this. The Canadian public needs to be very aware of this. We are trying to make people aware of this.

When we hear Liberal members saying that it is a good thing, it is because it benefits them. They are in government and they will get $1.50 subsidy per vote. The number of valid votes cast in the last election were 5,252,031 for the Liberal Party. If we multiply that times $1.50 a vote for a subsidy, that is a pile of cash. The Alliance was next with 3,276,929 votes. We would get a lot of money for that. However the fundamentals of it are wrong.

The government needs to address this probably sooner, between now and four o'clock when it delivers the budget. Shame on it.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Mr. Speaker, just for the folks at home who are listening and watching, the bill is about political party financing. I will play a bit of game with some of my colleagues around the House and ask them some questions on this and they can feel free to chime in.

Is the bill about lack of harbour police in this country or is it about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Political party financing I think the member behind me from Edmonton would say.

If we were to ask people in the House what are the priorities of the government, is a priority of the Liberals a registry of pedophiles or is it political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yes.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Yes, the Liberals are more concerned about political party financing than they are a pedophile registry.

What about consecutive sentencing? I see the member for Prince Albert paying attention. Do you think the Liberals are more concerned about consecutive sentencing for criminals or political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. Please address your comments to the Chair.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about the priorities of the Liberal government. If you want the questions directed to you, Mr. Speaker, I can direct them to you.

Mr. Speaker, do you think the Liberals today are more concerned about Senate reform or about political party financing? I would say it is political party financing. For example, are the Liberals more concerned about diplomatic immunity for terrorist supporting states or are they concerned about political party financing?

I can see you are loving this speech so much, Mr. Speaker, that you are actually leaving the chair.

I would say that the Liberals are more concerned about political party financing.

Are the Liberals more concerned about foreign aid to China, especially when we consider its occupation of Tibet, recent executions and dismemberment of Tibetan monks, the torture and murder of Falun Dafa practitioners and the suppression of freedom of speech in Hong Kong? Are the Liberals more concerned about that or are they more concerned about political party financing, Mr. Speaker?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

They are more concerned about political party financing.

Are they more concerned about the Commonwealth status of Zimbabwe and Robert Mugabe's murder and starvation of half his population, or are the Liberals more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

They are more concerned about political party financing.

Are the Liberals more concerned about the Wheat Board monopoly and the jailing of farmers for freely selling their grain, or are the Liberals more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

That is what I thought, Mr. Speaker.

Are the Liberals more concerned about eliminating the capital gains tax or are they more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

That is what I thought.

Are the Liberals more concerned about reducing fuel taxes in this country or are they more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

That is what I thought too.

Are the Liberals more concerned about replacing our helicopters with something viable like the EH-101 or are they more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Yes, that is what I thought too.

Are the Liberals more concerned about replacing our supply ships that are 40 years old and go half as fast as the slowest ship in the American fleet, or are they more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Political party financing: that is what I thought too.

Are the Liberals more concerned about heavy lift capability for the armed forces, such as C-17As, or are they more concerned about political party financing?

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

An hon. member

Political party financing.

Canada Elections ActGovernment Orders

3:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Anders Canadian Alliance Calgary West, AB

Political party financing, and are the Liberals more concerned about corporate welfare or are they more concerned about political party financing?