Debates of Feb. 3rd, 2003

Carrie's Guardian Angel Law

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is the House ready for the question?

[Some hon. members]

Question.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The question is on Motion No. 7. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

On division.

(Motion No. 7 agreed to)

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

moved that the bill, as amended, be concurred in.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Deputy Speaker]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Deputy Speaker]

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

[The Deputy Speaker]

The division stands deferred until Tuesday, February 4, at the end of oral question period.

The House resumed from January 27 consideration of the motion that Bill C-20, an act to amend the Criminal Code (protection of children and other vulnerable persons) and the Canada Evidence Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Criminal Code

[Dick Harris, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I wish I could say that I am pleased to be debating Bill C-20, which the government purports to be a bill that would protect our children from perverts and predators, the pedophiles of our nation, but as we saw just a few short moments ago the government has no intention of protecting our children from the likes of predators or perverts who would prey upon our children. The Liberals sat in their seats and denied our member for Calgary Northeast from putting forward a purely common sense private member's bill by making it votable.

We sat and watched several ministers vote against making a bill votable which would have added an undeniable measure of safety to the children of our nation. It was a shameful act. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and the President of the Treasury Board should be hanging their heads in shame today, as should their Liberal colleagues who refused the children an undeniable, extra measure of safety against the sick and perverted actions of pedophiles. Shame on them.

I am honoured that I can speak on behalf of the children of our nation. As my colleague from Okanagan--Coquihalla said earlier so eloquently, and has said on many occasions, if the government cannot, or will not in this case, protect the children from predators, then it forfeits the right to govern our nation. No words could be truer, particularly in the case of the Liberal government which has chosen, by its action or its inactions, so many times in dealing with this issue to stand firmly on the side of predators and perverts and against the children. Shame on it.

One has to ask the question, and that is what this debate is all about, do the children of our families have an undeniable right to be protected from pedophiles and perverts who roam the streets? The answer is yes, of course. Does the government have an undeniable responsibility to ensure absolute protection of the children from predators and perverts who roam the streets? The answer to that is yes.

The Liberal government has already made its position clear. Do we as a society believe that pedophiles should have rights under the law that they could use to take advantage of and pursue their perverted activities against the children of our nation? No, but the government allows them to. Time and time again we have stood in the House and demanded that the Liberal government bring in some legislation that reflects what the people are thinking in regard to this disgusting and perverted act of pedophilia or child pornography.

Time and time again we have stood up here and time and time again the government has stood on the side of pedophiles by its inaction. Yes, that is a strong statement. Of course it is, but the government is guilty by its inaction. The government has brought in Bill C-20, supposedly to add a measure of protection for children. Where in the bill, after our years of calling on the government to act, is the mention of raising the sexual consent age limit from 14 to 16? It is not there.

Who in their right mind could imagine that an adult having sex with a child of 14 years is in any possible way acceptable? Who in their right mind could believe that there could be a reasonable argument not to raise the sexual consent level from age 14 to age 16? Who in their right mind could stand up in the House, as some of the Liberal members have done, and say that this is something that is very complex, that we may find ourselves offending some people of different cultural backgrounds who may have differences of opinion?

A 14 year old is a child. This is Canada. Have the values of our country fallen so far into a pit of hell that there are people in the House who can imagine that a sexual act between an adult and a child of 14 can somehow be rationalized?

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice finds this amusing. Sir, it is not amusing.

[Paul MacKlin, Liberal, Northumberland, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The insinuation that I am laughing at something that a member is speaking about in the House is totally uncalled for and totally inaccurate. I resent that remark, because it does not reflect my position on the bill.

[The Deputy Speaker]

It certainly is a point of clarification but not a point of order. I know that all members will continue to treat this matter with the seriousness that it should be afforded.

[Dick Harris, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there is nothing in the bill, nothing, that deals with raising the age of sexual consent from 14 to 16. The Liberals have simply chosen to leave it out, once more standing on the side of adults in our society who would cause actions to have sex with children who are 14 years old.

Where in the bill do we find that the sentencing we have given to pedophiles in our country is made to become more meaningful? As the member for Calgary Northeast pointed out, the sentences for child pornographers, predators and pedophiles are not in the years that one would expect, that any sane person in this country would expect, for someone so depraved and perverted, someone we would want to take off of the streets for as long as we can. Months: that is the average sentence that a pedophile gets in this country for taking advantage of a child. Months, and nowhere in the bill is this addressed.

Where in the bill do the Liberals talk about changing their mind about the sex registry, the registry that is going to keep track of the perverts and pedophiles who have caused harm to our children, who are in jails now and who will be coming out, knowing full well that the recidivism of pedophiles is almost 100%, if not 100%? Where is the action to ensure that those people behind bars who are going to come out and commit again are in the national registry? It is not there. Once more the Liberal government is standing on the side of sexual perverts, pedophiles and predators and against the children of our nation. The actions of the government are disgusting.

We cannot support Bill C-20 in any way unless it is totally amended. We have put forward the amendments, not with much hope given the track record of the government, but it is time for all of us as parliamentarians, including those in government, to stand up for the children of this country and against the perverts of this country.

[Myron Thompson, Canadian Alliance, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I came to the House of Commons in 1993, along with my colleague from Prince George—Bulkley Valley. During the last 10 years we have heard throne speeches, budget speeches and all the promises about how the government was going to rid this country of child poverty, which is worse than ever according to all the statistics, but mostly the government talked about how it was going to treat the children of the country as its number one priority, its most important asset, and how it would by all means take every measure it could to protect this young society from any harm or danger. I have seen absolutely no success in accomplishing those vague promises from red books, throne speeches and budget talks.

We are moving into an era where an election is coming, with a possible leadership change for the Liberals. I wonder if the member could identify for me what his position would be on whether any one of these Liberal candidates, whether it is the former finance minister, the present finance minister or the heritage minister, shows any promise of making any difference to what we are talking about today, which is the security of our children?

[Dick Harris, Canadian Alliance, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Wild Rose for his question. Since 1993 those cabinet members he mentioned have had an opportunity to stand up in the House on the side of the children of our nation and bring forward and support meaningful measures to protect those children against the perverts and the predators of our country. Sad to say, they have remained silent. Still we wait for the government to protect children from being at the hands of adults by acting to raise the age of sexual consent from 14 to 16. Surely it would be a common sense measure. We wait to see pedophiles and perverts who commit crimes against the children of our nation taken out of society so they can hurt no more. We wait for those sentences to become meaningful instead of being a matter of months. The entire nation is crying for these people to be taken out of our society. We wait for the government to understand, to get the message that pedophiles are basically incurable, that medical science has shown that clearly.

We wait for the government to add the names of the people already incarcerated for these terrible crimes to the sex registry, to change the legislation so that can be done to protect our children from these people who will come out and commit offences again, which they will. We wait. The former minister of finance has not helped the children of our country in this matter, nor have the minister of heritage or the deputy prime minister, none of them. Still we wait, and every moment that we wait, our children are still at risk.

[The Deputy Speaker]

There is slightly over one minute left in this intervention so I will ask the hon. member for Lethbridge to be brief in his question. Hopefully the answer also will be.

[Rick Casson, Canadian Alliance, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be brief. The hon. member mentioned in his presentation that the government has had many opportunities over the past number of years to act on this issue and has chosen not to. I think back to the Sharpe decision. I would like him to expand a little on the opportunity there was at that time for the government to act. It did not.