House of Commons Hansard #74 of the 37th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was international.

Topics

SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

NDP

Svend Robinson NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the leader of the Bloc Quebecois for two reasons. First, for giving us the opportunity to debate this most important issue today and also for his very clear stand against this illegal and immoral war.

I want to ask him a very specific question. So far, we do not know exactly what kinds of weapons have been used by the Americans and the British. We know, for example, that depleted uranium could be used, as well as fragmentation bombs. All these weapons are extremely dangerous. I would even say that they are illegal and violate the Geneva convention.

I would like to ask the leader of the Bloc Quebecois whether he agrees that the use of these weapons is totally illegal and that, even though we are not taking part in this war, Canada should ask those who are, including the Americans and the British, never to use such illegal and immoral weapons.

SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

I am in total agreement with the member on this issue. We have done this repeatedly in previous wars, including in the Persian Gulf, in Kosovo and in Afghanistan.

When I was talking about Canada's active role on the diplomatic and humanitarian fronts, these are avenues that seem valid to me and on which we should insist, even more so in light of the troubling remarks made by Mr. Rusmfeld, who said that he regretted not being able to use certain chemical weapons. However, the President could allow it. I find it somewhat inconsistent to think of using chemical weapons to remove a leader and destroy his chemical weapons. Mr. Rumsfeld even mentioned the possibility of using the atomic bomb. This is not very reassuring, as members will certainly all agree. For this reason, I say that Canada must not take a fatalistic but a proactive attitude with regard to these issues as well as the issue of convening the General Assembly.

SupplyGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Toronto Centre—Rosedale Ontario

Liberal

Bill Graham LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Erie—Lincoln.

This is, I believe for all of us in the House, a solemn day. I believe it is a sad day, a day in which we gather as those elected by our peers in this country to discuss an issue that has been the scourge of mankind and a destroyer of civilization since our very beginning, the scourge of war.

It is for me, and I am sure most of the other members of the House, a source of great irony that so much of modern humankind's intellectual efforts have been consecrated to trying to end the conditions that draw us into war. We saw in the last century what modern war can bring to people and to civilizations, yet at the same time so much of our energies have been engaged in creating yet more terrible ways to wage war.

As we watch these terrible events unfold, it seems to me, as it did, I believe, to the leader of the Bloc Québécois who just spoke, that we owe it to ourselves, to our country and to our constituents to consider what lessons we can draw from them and how we can contribute to ensuring that they are not repeated, for as Schiller once said, “War nourishes war”. In today's world of the dangers posed by terrorism, we all, including our colleagues in the United States, our colleagues around the world and all our allies and friends, were guided by that thought as we sought to avoid the conflict. And we must not cease our efforts because it has begun.

What lessons do I draw from the events of the past few months that have brought us here today? The first lesson is that I believe we must recognize we have come to this point because of the continued intransigence of the Iraqi government. For over 12 years, the international community, working through the UN Security Council, insisted that Iraq meet its obligations to the international community to disarm itself of weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately, it refused to do so.

From the beginning, Canada steadfastly supported the United States effort and the United Nations efforts to secure Iraqi compliance. Last fall the Prime Minister encouraged President Bush to return to the Security Council, which he did. This led to the adoption of resolution 1441, giving Iraq one final chance to answer questions convincingly and to co-operate with the inspectors in disarming itself.

Canada did not spare any effort to obtain the full and complete implementation of resolution 1441. We wanted this process to conclude with the disarmament of Iraq, failing which there would be serious consequences. Unfortunately, Iraq did not take this opportunity, and the members of the Security Council were not able to agree on a course of action.

To try to bridge the gap within the Security Council, Canada presented a proposal that was discussed up until the last minute. It proposed the explicit authorization of force if Iraq did not respect various deadlines. In our opinion, this approach would have led to the disarmament of Iraq or to the Security Council's support of the use of force.

We know that Canada's proposals were very seriously considered in New York and by the various governments. Unfortunately, the members of the Security Council were unable, ultimately, to agree on a solution to this impasse.

Consequently, the United States, the United Kingdom and other countries decided to form a coalition to disarm Iraq. They believe this measure is necessary to protect their national interests. We know that, as with any decision to go to war, it was a difficult decision for them to make. We can only hope that the number of victims will be minimal.

As we know, Canada will not be taking part in this military campaign. We have always sought the approval of the Security Counsel for a military coalition against Iraq. Our position was articulated clearly and consistently throughout the difficult six months leading up to this point. As all countries do, we have taken a position consistent with our principles and with our interests and those of our citizens in mind.

The decision we took does not reflect any illusions about the brutality of Saddam Hussein and his regime. It was a decision based on our judgment about the interest of Canadians in accordance with our principles and our deep and longstanding commitment to the United Nations and multilateral system and to the Security Council process.

I passed this message on to my U.S. counterpart, Secretary Powell, when we spoke on Monday evening. He understands the Canadian position and our reasons for it. We have agreed to stay in close touch in the difficult days ahead.

Like our friends in the U.S., Secretary Powell is well aware the Canada-U.S. relationship is robust and profound. It does not hinge on this or any other single issue since it rests on a broad foundation of shared values, history, geography and countless family and other ties.

Secretary Powell also appreciated our assurances that notwithstanding the fact that we will not be a part of the Iraq military coalition, we remain one of the strongest allies and friends that the United States has. Canada stands firmly with the U.S. in the campaign against terrorism. We share its determination to ensure that terrorists find no home in Iraq, and we are making good on this commitment through our ships and planes stationed in the gulf area and through our role in the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. Together, these operations will involve roughly some 3,000 Canadian forces personnel.

To help the people of Iraq, we have already committed some $35 million in recent years to humanitarian relief in the region, and we will be participating in the UN post-conflict reconstruction.

As the Prime Minister pointed out this morning, we will join in a multilateral effort that will rebuild an Iraq capable of taking its place in the community of nations. Just as we did in the Balkans and in Afghanistan, we will continue the Canadian tradition of providing support to those who need it in the wake of conflict.

While the council was divided on the means of disarming Saddam Hussein, we believe that it can and must come together in approving a United Nations mandate for the post-conflict situation in Iraq.

The calls around the world for the UN to take a constructive role in the Iraq crisis reaffirm, in my view, the unique significance of this institution. The United Nations is certainly not perfect but its failures are the failures of its members, of which we are one. That said, it remains invaluable in bringing legitimacy to multilateral efforts in the realm of war and peace.

As for Canada, we will retain our longstanding commitment to strengthening international peace and security. In the difficult days ahead, we will put our full energy into these constructive efforts.

What then are the lessons that I draw from the past few days?

First, I would say that Saddam Hussein acquired weapons of mass destruction. This is clearly what started this and what brought us to where we are. Colleagues, we must increase our efforts against the proliferation and possession of weapons of mass destruction throughout the world.

Second, I believe it is only by strengthening the international institutions and multilateral institutions that we can help prevent future conflicts of this nature. It was a failure of the Security Council here but it will be essential for reconstruction.

The third lesson is that of the strength of our friendship and alliance with the United States which, in spite of those critics, we all recognize will survive and I believe increase through our work together on building a better continent and on building a better world, and in struggling against common causes, such as terrorism.

Fourth, I believe it shows that we must continue our common efforts in the war against terrorism.

Fifth, I believe it shows that we need to bear in mind the needs of the Iraqi people for humanitarian relief and for reconstruction. We need to bear in mind those elements in other countries of the world, in other places in the world such as Africa and other regions where problems are developing which will lead to lack of security for us and inhumanity for man.

In conclusion, these are lessons which I draw from these events. Other members will draw other lessons, based on their experience, based on their traditions and based on their approach.

I am sure that whatever differences we have among us, we are all united today as Canadians, united in our determination to protect our citizens in these circumstances, as the Prime Minister emphasized this morning, and united to work together to create conditions in this world which will lead to peace and not to conflict.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jim Abbott Canadian Alliance Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, I came into this House right now because I was absolutely appalled to find out that the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Canada was splitting his time on this issue. We know that it is parliamentary possible for the minister to give away part of his time, but the Canadian public is looking to this minister to be eloquent and to give us an idea of which end is up. What lessons are we supposed to learn; that he is too lazy to do a proper speech?

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The rhetoric is getting to be a bit strong. I would ask the hon. member to withdraw the last words.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:05 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jim Abbott Canadian Alliance Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, out of respect to the House I will withdraw the last words.

Does the minister consider this debate to be irrelevant? We may disagree with the Bloc and we may disagree with the NDP, but at least they are here and are bringing this topic to the floor of the House. The Prime Minister of Canada will not.

I find it appalling for the foreign affairs minister to stand up, when he has a full 20 minutes to express to Canadians what the position of his government is and why, and simply split off his time. I find the arrogance of the Liberals and the arrogance of the government to be absolutely amazing. I just cannot understand it.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry. The hon. member started out by saying that he regretted what had happened, then he took a great deal of the five minutes that I had to reply by arguing about a process issue. I cannot let this go by without a response.

I am splitting my time with an hon. member who has important things to say to the House. I was asked if I would ensure that as many Liberal members as possible would have an opportunity to speak and to participate in this debate.

I resent the suggestion that this is some sort of laziness on my part. I have worked long hours. The Prime Minister and I have been engaged in nothing but working on this for the past few weeks. I would love it if I had more time to speak in the House and to spend time with the hon. members from both sides. I know hon. members on all sides have many things to say.

Please believe me that my desire to split my time in the House was a constructive desire to ensure that we hear from as many hon. members as possible. I believe that on an issue as important as this that also is an important principle, and I beg the House's indulgence to recognize that.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Gilles-A. Perron Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Speaker, speaking in the House this morning is a sad occasion for me. I would like to remind all the hon. members in this House that I am opposed to the war and that I represent people in my riding, young people, who have taken a stand against the war.

I also want to remind the Minister of Foreign Affairs that, last week, I tabled a petition signed by 1,162 young people from the Polyvalente Deux-Montagnes, distributed by Ms. Marie-France Phisel. Also last week, I went to the Lake of Two Mountains English high school in my riding. Students at this school asked their elected representative to come hear them voice their opposition to the war.

My concern is what happens after the war, and I would like to hear what the Minister of Foreign Affairs has to say about this. This war is already dividing the European community and is the source of serious division within the UN. This war is sowing the seeds of future terrorism. I would like to know what the Minister of Foreign Affairs has to say about my concerns.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre—Rosedale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the member for tabling these petitions because it is important for us, the members of the House, to know the opinions of our fellow Canadians.

What happens after the war is obviously a concern to us all. I began my speech by quoting Schiller, who said that war nourishes war. War nourishes war by causing divisions, frustration, death and animosity. I agree completely with the member that we must now determine what measures are necessary to ensure the reconstruction of Iraq and to ensure that this will not cause worse problems than the existing ones. I totally agree with him. I especially urge my colleagues from the Bloc Quebecois to listen to what we have to say vis-à-vis our American colleagues. We have to start working with our American friends because they have the power and the resources to contribute to the post-war effort. We are going to work with them and not criticize them.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Erie—Lincoln, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour for me to follow the Minister of Foreign Affairs in this debate. I wish to thank him for his efforts on behalf of Canadians and the world community in attempting to preserve peace on this globe and avoid hostilities. This has been going on over the last several months leading up to today.

Canada has a long and respected tradition of working for peaceful and lawful resolution of disputes. In the current situation, Canada worked very hard to broker a compromise position through diplomatic channels. We tried to bring the Security Council together. We tried to find a bridge between those who felt Saddam Hussein could be disarmed over a reasonable period and those who demanded an extremely short period and immediate response. Unfortunately, and sadly, we were unsuccessful.

The Prime Minister confirmed earlier this week that, as a result of a lack of consensus among the United Nations Security Council and the lack of a resolution authorizing armed intervention, Canada would not join with the United States on its attack on Iraq. For my part, I accept this position.

First, I believe that Saddam Hussein, while a terrible person, a despot, a tyrant, and a dictator, has been effectively isolated and contained thanks in great part to the sanctions and work already done by the United Nations.

Second, I have a great difficulty with any nation or group of nations launching a military offensive without the support of the global community through the United Nations.

Over the years, the operations of the United Nations have been good for international affairs and the resolution of conflicts from a multilateral perspective. Unilateral unsanctioned actions fly in the face of such success.

I question if this action is even legal under international law when this offence is clearly not the result of a direct attack, the only basis for aggression under international law. It is also a stretch to suggest that the actions are further to the war on terrorism. At best, the link established between Iraq and the September 11, 2001, attacks is weak and speculative. I have deep concerns for the economic and political stability in the entire Middle East region during and after the conflict.

Finally, I am appreciative that this offence may only serve to exacerbate tensions with Arab nations and may even result in an increased risk of terrorism around the globe. We may have an entirely new generation of young Arabs who see the west as an unjustified aggressor. How do we then break the cycle of hatred and misunderstanding without first giving diplomacy and peace a longer period of time to work?

I question if President Bush has some greater knowledge that makes Saddam Hussein a more severe threat than what we observe. Is there a pre-eminent threat that can justify the toll of tremendous civilian and military casualties that will inevitably come?

Our veterans tell us that war is hell. They rarely provide us with the details because of the pain that these memories bring.

I suggest that there are other parts of the world where there is a clear and imminent danger more so than Iraq. Let us think of North Korea, Israel and Palestine, India and Pakistan, just to name a few. Why Iraq? Why now?

We wonder if this conflict will claim Canadian lives, not only to the limited military personnel in the Middle East, but also the Canadian civilians who may still be in the region for whatever purpose they have chosen to remain. We fear for collateral damage to the Iraqi population and the citizens of Kuwait, Turkey and Israel, to name a few. If attacked, will Israel retaliate with tremendous military force and will this draw in other Arab nations who are currently on the sidelines in yet further retaliation against Israel? Will it be apocalypse now?

I appreciate the argument that we need to stand by our friends, the Americans. But I do not agree that we should do so at any cost. We must feel free to pursue our own policies and our own values. Let us not forget that Canada is a sovereign nation and made an independent decision on behalf of all Canadians.

Canada continues to support the United States in Operation Enduring Freedom, the war on terrorism, and will in fact supply Canadian troops to relieve U.S. forces in Afghanistan later this year. Three Canadian frigates continue to patrol the Persian Gulf and have no plans to abandon these duties. There are also 31 Canadian military personnel in an integrated force already in Kuwait which are not being removed from the area.

These military units are to concentrate on the fight against terrorism, not to participate in the war on Iraq. Canada has also stated that it will assist with humanitarian projects in Iraq after hostilities are concluded, in essence, to help Iraq and its people rebuild. Indeed, I have heard of an estimated immediate cost to the international community for humanitarian basics such as food and shelter may entail up to $124 million.

We in Canada are not isolated by this conflict in far off lands. There are serious domestic implications at home as well. We in the Niagara Peninsula are very sensitive to the friendship between our two countries. Almost everyone can count an American friend, relative or neighbour among their acquaintances. To say that we jeopardize these relationships, when I am not even certain that many of our American friends support their own government's position, is debatable.

We will work through this with the sense of mutual respect that we have for one another. Americans are our friends and allies today, and they will be tomorrow. We fear for the safety and security of their military personnel.

Longer than usual waits at our border for commercial traffic have already started but is not a crisis. Yesterday I spoke with a representative of a horticultural company who was concerned that lengthy delays would adversely affect getting his product to the United States market in a saleable condition. If the problem extends for a long duration, it could be devastating for his business and employees.

Unlike September 11 however, we are prepared for the effects of increased surveillance and inspections on both sides of the border. In fact, we are conducting exit inspections for outbound traffic at our borders as a further measure to assist our American friends with security measures. Our customs and immigration officers have risen to the occasion. There may be some delays but our border will not close. It may not be business quite as usual for a brief period but it will be business. Trade with the United States, which is the lifeblood of our country, will continue.

I am concerned that our fragile airline industry may be dealt a knockout blow as business travellers, tourists and vacationers may understandably cancel flights. An industry which has many participants teetering on the brink of bankruptcy can ill afford interruption of any substantial consequence. We have lived through the impact of this on our airlines and aerospace industry during 9/11. It could be a long road back. As well, rising fuel costs may restrict the use of the family vehicle and normal family activities. The auto industry may also be impacted.

All that being said, Canadians must not withdraw in fear and apprehension, otherwise the terrorists have won. The foregoing domestic concerns are insignificant when compared to the potential loss of life and devastation in Iraq but nevertheless cannot be ignored.

Canada worked diligently at the United Nations to help members reach some kind of compromise. In addition, the Prime Minister went on U.S. national television recently and suggested that the U.S. had effectively already won this war. His thoughts, that are shared by many in the international community, gave the U.S. administration a gracious way to tone down the rhetoric without losing face. I personally think that we should be proud that our role has been true to the Canadian values of consensus building.

There is undoubtedly a gamble involved in this situation and, as with many serious situations that will result in death and casualties, it might only be through the lens of history that we will be able to say whether or not we have chosen the right course. It may take years to really ascertain if there has been a victory in Iraq. However, in my mind, the risk of allowing the United Nations additional time to disarm Saddam Hussein outweighed the risk of killing innocent Iraqi citizens and U.S. military personnel.

A post-war Iraq deserves some sober consideration. Can warring factions within the country be governed in peace and stability when the tyrant is gone? Can a people who have never experienced democracy suddenly make it work? Let us be firm that Iraqis must be governed by Iraqis and Iraqi oil must be for Iraq. How will other oppressive regimes in the region view and treat their new democratic neighbour? Will they consider it a threat to them and their lifestyles as well? Difficult times will still be ahead when hostilities cease.

Peacekeeping operations will lead to long term commitments which are difficult to speculate. Will they be for two, four or maybe six years? I have no doubt however that Canada will be a participant in such deployments.

In discussions and correspondence with my constituents, the overwhelming majority have been in support of the government's position. In the days, weeks and months leading to events of today, opposition to this position in my riding was negligible. Admittedly, since the decision has been made, I have heard from some constituents who oppose it. I respect their opinions but disagree with them.

The disarmament of Iraq has begun with the U.S. forces launching a surgical attack against leadership targets in Baghdad last night. I ask all members, those citizens who are watching here today and indeed all Canadians, to take a moment for a short prayer or silent reflection for all those, from both sides, who will become involved in this conflict. As I indicated earlier, in the words of many veterans, war is hell. Let us pray for a quick end to hostilities and a lasting, productive peace.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

James Moore Canadian Alliance Port Moody—Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, my Liberal colleague across the way said that Canada must set its own course with regard to foreign policy. That is not what his own Liberal government is doing.

The government has abdicated Canada's sovereign independent choice about whether or not to defend our national security interests to the United Nations. Had France not said that it was going to veto any decision by the UN Security Council, and had the UN Security Council voted eight to seven in favour of war, the government's position would be to go to war. Had the Security Council voted eight to seven opposing going to war, we would not be going to war. The government has totally abdicated its moral responsible leadership to decide whether or not Canada goes to war to the United Nations.

How can the member opposite stand there and say that the government is charting its own course, that Canada should chart its own course, and have an independent foreign policy when it has no guts whatsoever to decide for itself--

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. I would ask that comments be addressed to the Chair.

The hon. member for Erie--Lincoln.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Erie—Lincoln, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has gone on at great length on his speculative comments on what could or has happened. That is not correct.

We are an independent country and have an independent foreign policy. We have reflected the opinions and values of Canadians in making this decision. Let us look at the polls. There is no question that we have done the right thing and we will continue to do the right thing. We are a friend of America and we will stand by the Americans. We think their position in this specific action is not the right position.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, the member would be aware that there have been in previous wars, in Afghanistan and in Kosovo, serious questions about violations of Geneva conventions of UN treaties with respect to the use of various military methods and armaments. What comes to mind most recently is the use of cluster bombs in Afghanistan and the use of depleted uranium in the 1991 gulf war which has continued to cost lives and plague people's lives ever since that time in terms of health considerations.

Could the member address the question of what his government will do to ensure that there will be no use of illegal military tactics and armaments in the war that is now underway that thumb their nose at international covenants and conventions?

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Erie—Lincoln, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is my personal opinion that Geneva conventions should be respected at all times.

I can appreciate that there must be an effective response to aggressors, but certainly, there is a humanitarian aspect that we cannot have our troops or allied troops incurring atrocities or subjecting their opponents to atrocities, nor do we accept enforcing that on any other party.

The weapons that the member has suggested, if they are in violation of the Geneva conventions, I strongly feel that those violators should be brought to task. We certainly did that with our own armed forces when there were inappropriate actions far exceeding what was necessary under the circumstances. I can recall some of those events. We acted firmly with our own troops and we expect the international community to do the same with any violators in this conflict or any future conflict.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Monte Solberg Canadian Alliance Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, the member said that the Americans will be our friends tomorrow, but I remind him that if we are not going to stand beside them in their hour of need, at some point, they are not going to be our friends any more.

The foreign affairs minister said that Canada did not spare any effort at all to bring about peaceable disarmament. Will the member please admit that it did spare an effort when it refused to put Canadian troops on the border with Iraq to show that we were serious about following up if Iraq did not peaceably disarm? Will the member admit that the government did not do the most important thing it could do, which is to demonstrate it was serious--

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. The hon. member for Erie--Lincoln has 30 seconds.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Erie—Lincoln, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member's interest in our relationship with the United States. He has had a very active role with the Canada-U.S. parliamentary association and can appreciate the mutual respect that politicians at our level have for each other.

If we were to have placed troops on the Iraqi border with the United States we would be perceived as the same type of aggressor as the United States. We wanted to bring this situation to an end through consensus, through a peaceful means, and not through violent military means. We were unsuccessful and it is very sad that this happened.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Canadian Alliance

Stephen Harper Canadian AllianceLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I stand today to speak to a matter of the gravest importance that Parliament can address: the matter of war and specifically the resumption of war against the regime of Saddam Hussein.

We appreciate that our colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois have brought this motion forward today. It is appropriate for two reasons. The first is that it is not from the government, which has consistently acted without vision and values during this crisis, and even today I understand resists a timely vote on these matters.

It is also fitting that this historic motion, which calls on us to abandon our closest friends and allies at this critical time, comes from the Bloc Quebecois, a party that does have values and visions but whose values are different than the traditions that built this country and whose vision is a country where our country as we know it would not continue to exist.

Let us review how we came to this crossroads internationally. In 1991, after the invasion of Kuwait, the world judged the Iraqi regime to be a dangerous aggressor. In the interests of world peace and regional security, the community of nations expelled Iraq from Kuwait; required Iraq to surrender its offensive arsenal, its chemical and biological weapons; and to abandon its nuclear weapons program. Iraq agreed to comply with these demands as an enormous and victorious force of allied troops and personnel, not just American and British but Canadians as well stood ready to invade.

We have waited 12 years for Saddam Hussein to give action to those commitments. With the threat of renewed action from the U.S., the U.K. and others, on November 8, 2002, the United Nations Security Council passed resolution 1441. It was the 17th Security Council resolution regarding the threat Iraq posed to international peace and security. The resolution, which was adopted unanimously, gave Iraq a final opportunity to demonstrate immediate compliance with its disarmament obligations and it promised serious consequences otherwise.

Over the last four months we have seen no evidence to suggest that Saddam Hussein will willingly comply with resolution 1441.

Iraq's continued defiance of the community of nations presents a challenge which must be addressed. It is inherently dangerous to allow a country, such as Iraq, to retain weapons of mass destruction, particularly in light of its past aggressive behaviour. If the world community fails to disarm Iraq we fear that other rogue states will be encouraged to believe that they too can have these most deadly of weapons to systematically defy international resolutions and that the world will do nothing to stop them.

As the possession of weapons of mass destruction spreads, the danger of such weapons coming into the hands of terrorist groups will multiply, particularly given in this case the shameless association of Iraq with rogue non-state organizations.

That is the ultimate nightmare which the world must take decisive and effective steps to prevent. Possession of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons by terrorists would constitute a direct, undeniable and lethal threat to the world, including to Canada and its people.

As we learned, or should have learned, on September 11, having no malice toward these groups will not absolve the citizens of any country from the hatred they direct toward us and toward our civilization.

The principal objective is the disarmament of Iraq but it has now become apparent that objective is inseparable from the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime.

Earlier this week President Bush requested the support of his key allies in the participation of a coalition of nations that would be prepared to enforce Security Council resolutions by all necessary means. That same day the allies delivered an ultimatum to the Iraqi leadership: Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours or face military conflict.

These allies did not seek a military conflict today any more than they sought it 12 years ago. The world has tried other means for years but to no avail. We cannot walk away from the threat that Iraq's continued possession of weapons of mass destruction constitutes to its region and to the wider world.

In the final analysis, disarming Iraq is necessary for the long term security of the world, to the collective interests of our historic allies and, therefore, manifestly it is in the national interest of this country.

I want to briefly address some of the counter-arguments to this position in support of the coalition of the willing led by President Bush and Prime Minister Blair.

First, this coalition lacks the legal authority to act. Existing United Nations Security Council resolutions have long provided for the use of force to disarm Iraq and restore international peace and security to the area. Security Council resolution 678 adopted in 1990 authorized the use of all necessary means, not only to implement resolution 660 demanding Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait, but also to implement all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security to the area.

Resolution 687, which provided the ceasefire terms for Iraq in 1991, a ceasefire not an armistice, affirmed resolution 678. Resolution 1441 itself confirmed that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations, a point on which there is unanimous international agreement.

Iraq's past and continuing breaches of the ceasefire obligations now negate the basis for the formal ceasefire. Iraq has, by its conduct, demonstrated that it did not and does not accept the terms of the ceasefire. Consequently, authorization for the use of force in Security Council resolution 678 has been reactivated.

I would point out that this view of international law is not new. In fact, our own Canadian deployment of troops to the gulf in 1998 in Operation Desert Fox, strongly supported at the time by the current Prime Minister, was undertaken on the same legal basis. The Clinton administration clearly understood and argued, as the Bush administration does now, that existing Security Council resolutions clearly allow for the use of military force.

Another objection is that we need only more time, that the inspection process is working and that diplomacy should be given another chance. Let me address this. The inspections process has been a failure. It has not resulted in disarmament. However, more important, the inspections process is not intended to force or compel disarmament. It is only intended to monitor compliance. To the extent that Saddam Hussein has complied, it has only been through the constant threat of force. Force has been the only language that Saddam Hussein's regime has ever understood. Yet even the threat of force has only convinced Saddam Hussein to engage reluctantly in the token, piecemeal destruction of weapons, and only the most reluctant revelations of the existence of weapons and weapons programs.

Even with over 200,000 coalition troops massed at his borders, he quibbles about how interviews are to be conducted with his scientists and how many of the reconnaissance aircraft supporting the inspectors can fly at one time. He simply plays a game of cat and mouse, and he will play it indefinitely. After 12 years he does not believe that the international community has the will to act. He clearly believes that ongoing diplomacy will ultimately be hijacked by those who simply want to delay and who ultimately want inaction.

In recent months this party, the Canadian Alliance, has been strongly supportive of these diplomatic efforts. However it is clear now that in some cases Saddam Hussein has guessed right. For example, Jacques Chirac and the Gaullists of France have once again been preoccupied more with agendas targeted on the Anglo-American word than on the regime of Saddam Hussein. In other cases, however, Saddam Hussein has clearly made an error in judgment, a final misjudgment. He underestimated our American and British allies and their many friends around the world.

That leads to a final criticism, that the coalition is somehow inadequate because it is not unanimous and because it is led by the United States of America. Ironically, as even our Liberal government has acknowledge, America, with Britain in particular, has given strong leadership to the world on the issue of Iraq. What has been accomplished in recent months has only been accomplished solely because of the American-British coalition and their allies and their determination to act. Indeed, without strong leadership of leading powers, usually the U.S.A., the failures of the United Nations are too numerous and too grisly to even mention.

We in the Canadian Alliance support the American position today on this issue because we share its concerns and its worries about the future of the world if Iraq is left unattended. Alliances are a two-way process. Where we are in agreement we should not leave it to the United States to do all the heavy lifting just because it is the world's only superpower. To do so, I believe, will inevitably undermine one of the most important relationships that we have. In an increasingly globalized and borderless world, the relationship between Canada and the United States is essential to our prosperity, to our democracy and to our future.

The coalition assembled by the United States and the United Kingdom is now ready to act. It is now acting. It will bring this long run conflict to an end once and for all. It will bring to an end the regime of Saddam Hussein and the militarism, brutality and aggression that are the foundations of his rule.

Since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979, more than one million have died as a consequence. They have died through killing and torture as individual opponents, real and imagined. They have died from acts of civil war and mass genocide in the north and south of the country. They have died in invasions launched against his neighbours. Now his final bloody chapter is being read. As it is being written, make no mistake, this party will not be with Saddam Hussein. We will not be neutral. We will be with our allies and our friends, not militarily but in spirit we will be with them in America and in Britain for a short and successful conflict and for the liberation of the people of Iraq.

We will not be with our government, for this government, in taking the position it has taken, has betrayed Canada's history and its values. Reading only the polls and indulging in juvenile and insecure anti-Americanism, the government has, for the first time in our history, left us outside our British and American allies in their time of need. However, it has done worse. It has left us standing for nothing, no realistic alternative, no point of principle and no vision of the future. It has left us standing with no one. Our government is not part of the multilateral coalition in support of this action and it has not been part of any coalition opposing it; just alone, playing irrelevant and contradictory games on both sides of the fence, to the point where we go so far as to leave military personnel in the region without the active and moral support of the government that sent them there.

This is not an act of independence. In fact, as we find ourselves isolated from our allies, we find ourselves under the government more dependent on them than ever before, economically, culturally and, of course, militarily.

My great fear: A country that does not embrace its own friends and allies in a dangerous world but thinks it can use them and reject them at will. Such a country will in time endanger its own existence.

However, to have the future once again of a great country, we must do more than stand with our friends in the United States. We must rediscover our own values. We must remember that this country was forged in large part by war, terrible war, but not because it was terrible and not because it was easy, but because at the time it was right.

In the great wars of the last century, against authoritarianism, against fascism and against communism, Canada did not merely stand with the Americans, we, more often than not, led the way. We did so for freedom, we did so for democracy, we did so for the values of civilization itself, values which continue to be embodied in our allies and their leaders and are represented in their polar offices, embodied and personified by Saddam Hussein and the perpetrators of 9/11.

Therefore, we will not merely vote against this motion today, we will tell the Americans and the British that we are with them.

We will of course pray for the innocent people of Iraq and hope that they may have a better future than the one they have had under this tyrannical regime, and we will wish that they may have a future where they have the democratic freedoms that we enjoy, that every man and every woman, yes, even in the Islamic world, is entitled to in every part of this earth. We will stand, and I believe most Canadians will quietly stand with us, for these higher values, which shaped our past and which we will need in an uncertain future.

Mr. Speaker, in the days that follow may God guide the actions of the President of the United States and the American people; may God save the Queen, her Prime Minister and all her subjects; and may God continue to bless Canada.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Toronto Centre—Rosedale Ontario

Liberal

Bill Graham LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the Leader of the Opposition on a thoughtful and powerful presentation of his party's case. I would like to feel that we too on this side of the House, in spite of his comment that we stand for nothing, do stand for one important value at this time, I believe. We stand for the support of and beside the citizens of Canada who in the majority are largely, emphatically and determinedly opposed to military action at this time and in these circumstances, not under any circumstance, but under these circumstances.

To suggest people are cowardly because they choose to work through the multilateral institutions that are the sole possibility we have of avoiding conflicts like this in the future is in my view a mistaken approach, but let me ask the member a question because this is an important debate. We do have to get down to some differences we have. We can have legitimate differences in the House, but we must address them.

I want to ask a question of the Leader of the Opposition because he has thought a great deal about these issues. He put the proposition that dealing with Saddam Hussein in this fashion is the only way to stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Have he and his party given thought to the fact that there will be countries that will today decide to acquire weapons of mass destruction because of threats of this kind?

Have he and his party thought of the analogy of North Korea and that North Korea today stands determined to threaten the use of weapons of mass destruction and nuclear weapons precisely because of threats of this kind? Does he not agree with us that we need multilateral institutions to address these issues or we will fall into a chaos where everybody will search for weapons of mass destruction and we will be in a more dangerous place than where he seeks the security for the Canadian population that we are working for today?

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Stephen Harper Canadian Alliance Calgary Southwest, AB

Mr. Speaker, let me address the preamble to begin with. I do not know whether the polls the minister cites represent the opinion of the Canadian people or not, but what I do know is that in these matters we judge the national interests of the country, not at this time, not today and not tomorrow, but we stand by the permanent national interests of the country. This country and many around the world made tragic errors in the 1930s by underestimating the threats that we faced. We on this side will never do that again.

Just to reply briefly to the minister's substantive question, I must say that our interpretation of events is completely the opposite of his. North Korea has not acted because of the invasion of Iraq or the boldness of allied action. It has acted as it has because of the increasing uncertainty and lack of determination to act that was apparent on the part of so many countries over the last few months. It is not a coincidence that what North Korea has done occurred in the shadow of international bickering and indecision over Iraq. That issue is obviously with us. It will have to be addressed. It is a serious one, but I believe we are strengthened today in taking decisive action.

I would just point out to the minister his own contradiction. He said they stand for values. I do not know what they are. The only reference has been to other members of the United Nations Security Council, which frankly have not historically shared our aims and interests. He quotes the desire for peaceful resolution but he concedes that Saddam Hussein has been unwilling to act. The contradictions mount. I believe the government has no coherent policy, but if it does, I ask it to join with us and the Bloc Québécois and allow on a vote on these measures today.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the Leader of the Opposition's speech. He should know that this is no time to judge whether the Bloc Quebecois' motion reflects Canadian values or not.

The Prime Minister of Canada and the Premier of Quebec, who have diametrically opposing positions on the future of Canada, agree. They think that things need to go through international institutions, that there needs to be respect for the legality of things, and that the future world in which we will have to live must be considered.

I think it is important for the Leader of the Opposition to take into consideration the following question: why did the U.S.— which did not manage to put win over a majority of UN Security Council members—decide to adopt behaviour which, on an international level, is illegal and illegitimate, and which will have major repercussions on the future of international relations?

Can the opposition party, instead of—

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Stephen Harper Canadian Alliance Calgary Southwest, AB

Mr. Speaker, in my speech, I did address the issue of the legality of this action. We firmly believe that this intervention is legal under international law.

We are disappointed—and our take on this is completely different from that of the Bloc Quebecois—that some of the permanent members of the Security Council, including France, have decided to back out of their commitments pursuant to resolution 1441 and previous resolutions. It is unfortunate, but it is now up to our allies, our historical allies, namely the Americans and the British, to act. We support their action.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I want to use this opportunity to make a brief comment. The leader of the official opposition did not actually reference this in his speech, I think, but on a number of occasions in the last several days a number of his members have been actively misrepresenting the history of the NDP and the CCF with respect to questions of peace and war. In particular, the Leader of the Opposition's foreign affairs critic has on a number of occasions, and so have some other Alliance MPs, claimed that the CCF, the predecessor of the NDP, did not support the second world war, that somehow we had not voted in favour of armed intervention to resist Adolf Hitler and Naziism.

For the record, I want to urge the Leader of the Opposition to acknowledge that this is empirically not the case. The leader of the CCF at the time--