House of Commons Hansard #13 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was military.

Topics

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10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

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10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I believe you would find consent for the following order:

That at the conclusion of the present debate on the opposition motion, all questions necessary to dispose of this motion be deemed put, a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until 6:15 p.m. on Tuesday, October 26, 2004.

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10:15 a.m.

The Speaker

Is that agreed?

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10:15 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

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10:15 a.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Conservative

Stephen Harper ConservativeLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by noting that I will be splitting my time with our deputy leader, the member for Central Nova.

This is a very important issue. Members will recall that during the last election the Liberals tried to denigrate, ridicule and make fun of our very serious proposals to give our military men and women the resources and direction they need to fulfill their vital missions.

Since then, we have witnessed new and even more disturbing examples of the shameful neglect with which successive Liberal governments have treated our armed forces.

As we all know, we have recently had a national embarrassment and tragedy, which, I can assure members, our men and women in uniform do not find amusing or trivial, nor do a majority of Canadians who expect that their government can at the very least ensure the sovereignty of our country and the safety of our society.

The Liberals appear to believe that the world has not changed in the past 30 years, since they started cutting back on the role and resources of the armed forces. The Liberal Party has not changed, but the world situation has.

Canada and its allies face a new global reality, which includes threats of global terrorism, failing states, oppressive regimes and the proliferation of various classes of weapons.

The response of the federal Liberal government to a new security environment which requires vision and vigour has been indifference and incompetence.

In its 1994 defence white paper, this government made a series of critical assumptions. It forecasted a diminishing role for the Canadian military on the international stage. It assumed that the frequency and complexity of future military operations would be lower and their duration shorter.

All of these assumptions have been proven wrong--dangerously wrong--yet the government did not see fit and does not see fit to revisit this policy. While allied countries conducted thorough reviews of their defence policies after 9/11, the Liberal government stubbornly clung to a policy that was already outdated and had been outdated for several years.

Canada is a member of the G-8. Our country ranks second in the world in terms of area. Our system of democracy is respected worldwide. In the two world wars, the Korean war and the numerous peacekeeping operations, our country has earned the admiration and recognition of its allies and of all friends of freedom and democracy.

The sad reality, however, is that we are no longer considered a credible military power. The Liberal government has abdicated, not only its international responsibilities, but its obligations to our soldiers and our national security.

As a lack of policy guidance squandered time and resources, Canada's men and women in uniform have been sent on the widest array of missions imaginable, to every corner of the globe, often without a clear understanding of how their efforts were central to Canada's well-being or whether they had the equipment necessary to carry out their missions effectively.

Over the past 10 years, the federal government has dramatically reduced the capability of our armed forces but at the same time has multiplied its commitments and obligations. In the absence of adequate federal funding, the military has even been obliged to deduct funds from the capital portion of the defence budget in order to pay for basic operations. By 2003, the portion of the defence budget devoted to capital spending had shrunk to only 11.5%, a 50% drop from when this government took office in 1993.

Since it is capital spending that allows the renewal of military capabilities, the future of the military has been sacrificed to pay for its day to day existence. The Prime Minister has recently bragged about his announcements on defence equipment acquisition; however, according to DND's strategic capability investment plan, the Prime Minister's announcements fall short some $20 billion or 75% short of the military's own 15 year defence equipment plan.

The Prime Minister, who likes to talk about everything as “a fix for a generation”, says that he has responded to the crisis in national defence. In fact, the Prime Minister has only approved $7 billion, or 25% of the military's own 15 year, $27.5 billion plan that is loosely based on the government's own 1994 policy and recent operational lessons.

As a percentage of the size of our economy, Canada's defence spending, at 1.2% of GDP, ranks the among the lowest, the second lowest, I believe, of all our NATO allies. Not that long ago, from 1985-87 under a Progressive Conservative government, the Canadian defence budget accounted for 2.2% of Canadian GDP, nearly 50% more in relative terms than today.

We are even more worried by the myopic, clearly minimalist view of military policy that was recently adopted by the government in its discussion of the future role of the armed forces. The Liberal election platform advocated a narrow or niche roles for the military as a whole and there is now every indication that the Prime Minister is seeking to redefine the role of the Canadian Forces on the international stage as one of a mere constabulary operation.

The Conservative Party supports Canada's three long-standing and increasing inter-linked security goals: first, the security of Canada; second, the collaborative defence of North America; and finally, the promotion of peace and security on the international stage.

There is no question in my mind that Canada's military should be increased to at least 80,000 personnel to meet the increasing demands of this security environment.

That is why our motion today advocates a stronger, multi-role, combat capable force to improve Canada's international capacity. To secure the peace in a new security environment, Canada must have multi-role, combat capable forces configured for a full range of military operations from humanitarian support to full combat operations in defence of our national interests.

Notwithstanding our history as one of the most peaceful nations on the face of the earth, the Liberals continue to forget the key lessons of that history, and it is that our identity, our freedoms, our democracy and our values were more often than not won by men and women who were prepared to stand in uniform and pay the ultimate sacrifice.

The world may change, but the nature of humanity has not changed. Today and in the future, our ability to sustain our values here at home and our ability to project those values in a dangerous world will continue to rest on having a strong military. Those are the facts of life, they are the facts of our history, and no sovereign nation can ever forget them.

Let me conclude by mentioning the men and women of our armed forces, who have held up now for decades and increasingly hold up remarkably well under difficult, unfair and extraordinarily dangerous circumstances. But their success is due only to professionalism and dedication. It is not due to the quality and direction of political leadership they have been receiving from this place. They have enjoyed numerous small successes. They have garnered international respect not because of the policies of the government, but despite them.

As we reflect upon the tragedies that have recently befallen at least one of our military families, we need to remind ourselves once again that the men and women in uniform who defend and protect us are always owed as the highest priority by their national Parliament and their national government our priority to defend and protect them.

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10:25 a.m.

Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca B.C.

Liberal

Keith Martin LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence

Madam Speaker, I listened with great interest to the comments of the Leader of the Opposition. I want to reiterate a few facts. The fact is that this government recognizes the new global realities. That is why we have put together a four part, integrated plan, working with development and defence, working with aid and working with foreign affairs, in order to look at our new security challenges in a four part fashion.

Also with respect to the defence department, the Leader of the Opposition knows full well that a review of defence has been taking place. That review to reflect those new realities is going to come out very soon.

The Leader of the Opposition also mentions contributions to our military. He should know full well that we have committed to putting forth 5,000 new people on the sharp edge of our military, plus 3,000 new reserves. We have also contributed $7 billion for new equipment. That is a start, and I submit to members that given our fiscal realities and our fiscal challenges it is a good start.

The Leader of the Opposition wants to put 80,000 people on the sharp edge. I would ask him this. Over what period of time does he want to put those 80,000 people on the sharp edge of our military and what is it going to cost the Canadian taxpayer to do that?

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10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Harper Conservative Calgary Southwest, AB

Madam Speaker, I can remember the day not so long ago when that member would have stood in his place and said exactly the opposite.

I will just say this, and it is the only answer worth giving. Our men and women are going to stand on the field of battle and be in the dangerous oceans facing death and injury. What they are looking for from their national Parliament is commitment to the values of integrity, commitment, dedication and standing by their team and fighting with them.

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10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for his opening remarks in this important debate. Yesterday I took the time to observe the representations of the military leadership before the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs. One of the matters that seemed to come out was that they had talked about the acquisitions of a variety and range of military equipment as meeting the functionality requirements of DND and not necessarily meeting the “best possible”.

I raise this because the motion states that we will equip and support our forces for combat operations, but it does not seem to indicate the level. Is it “best possible” that Parliament would like to see instilled in the defence procurement practices or is meeting the functionality sufficient?

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10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Stephen Harper Conservative Calgary Southwest, AB

Madam Speaker, that is a complicated question and difficult to answer in a couple of minutes.

First of all, I do listen to some of this testimony. We can read what defence department officials are saying in their internal reports, and I think we understand the state of the military and our long range concern. I admire and understand the difficulty that senior military people have in their roles both as leaders of our military, who are trying to upgrade the military, but also as senior officers of the government who are obliged to, within reason, attempt to defend government policy.

Our view is clear. The Canadian military will never be the largest military in the world and it should not be the largest military. Except for the obviously high end nuclear, it should have a full range of capabilities. Those capabilities, I would say should not be necessarily cutting edge but should be top level capabilities. That is going to take time.

The member is aware that we have made proposals to increase the funding of our military immediately and over time to secure that kind of a defence capability, which is prepared to respond with our allies to a range of flexible and unknown situations in the future.

We can do it with mere functionality as a stop-gap measure, but I think we have to aim for better if we are to play a role in the defence of our own country and in the projection of our values abroad.

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10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, I will begin by congratulating the Leader of the Opposition as well as the mover of the motion, the member for Carleton—Mississippi Mills, who has great practical experience having served in the Canadian Forces himself. I know members present, and Canadians generally, will be listening with great interest to his remarks and the insights he will bring to the debate.

I want to pick up where my leader left off with respect to the position that the Canadian Forces play in the world today, and the capacity in which they are to carry that heavy burden and live up to the expectation that we in this country still expect of those proud men and women.

A historic retrospect, as my leader referred to it, will tell us quickly that this nation really came into its own on the battlefields far from our own country. The blood that was shed on behalf of Canadians in defence of freedom and values should cause us all to pause and reflect very seriously on the danger and the peril these men and women face even today. That same threat exists and arguably has been heightened in the days that we have seen quite recently.

With the rise of terrorism in the world today and the increasing sophistication, there is a need for technology and equipment, but the real human effort remains with those individuals willing to don the uniform and fight to protect our country's sovereignty, freedom and role abroad to protect other countries as well.

The sad reality of the equipment and support that exists today is one which we are attempting to draw attention to through this motion. I would not presume for a moment to speak for members present or for those in the Canadian military, but I suspect that the last thing people want to see in this debate is a pure partisan attempt to score points. What has to be done is the securing of proper resources and support for our Canadian Forces, and to get on with giving them the ability to do the job with which they are tasked.

Clearly, we have seen a decline and a full retreat from the necessary implementation of a plan for the equipment and support that members of the armed forces should rightly expect from their own government. This is not coming solely from the opposition or commentary that is of a partisan nature.

This comes from the Auditor General. This comes from impartial observers, and those with knowledge like Jane's magazine, who keep track of how countries are responding to these global threats. The American ambassador has made comments which should be of alarm to us all about the state of our armed forces. The general security threat around North America is very real and heightened.

We have seen chronic underfunding of our armed forces in the last 10 years. We have not seen an accurate white paper which would even depict the current state of our armed forces to allow us to accurately address where the greatest need is and where the greatest priorities lie. There have been attempts made in the past to put a patch or a bandage over the situation and that has simply exacerbated the situation overall.

Over the course of the last decade we have seen an unprecedented decline in many areas and now those decisions are coming back to haunt us. We had decisions made that were meant to cut corners, to simply put a very thinly veiled bandage over a festering wound within the armed forces.

My colleague from Prince George, British Columbia, referenced the state of housing. That is a deplorable state. We have seen, in fact, a retreat in terms of the numbers of individuals who are currently willing to serve in the armed forces. We have seen an inability to recruit and to train, even to give proper ammunition for live training exercises. Imagine, inadequate rifles and ammunition while we are still spending upward of $2 billion registering hunting rifles in the country, and we cannot give rifles to our armed forces.

By way of comparison, $250 million was spent on a sponsorship scandal and an inadequate amount of money for equipment. There was the purchase and procurement of government jets. And the ongoing charade, perhaps the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on our Canadian military, was the cancellation of helicopters which we are now still mired in a contract dispute.

This shows a distinct lack of priority and understanding by the Liberal government of the dire straits that currently exist within the Canadian military, even so far as to sending troops into a live war zone with inadequate uniforms, forest green uniforms in the desert. We may as well have issued hunters' orange with that type of background.

The sheer danger and humiliation that those soldiers must have felt, having to exchange boots and helmets as they disembarked upon arrival into a war zone. These are real situations that put real lives in real risk and the government has to bear the responsibility of those decisions.

The current state, as was referred to by the Leader of the Opposition, and the attempts by the Prime Minister to gloss over what has happened, to suggest that adequate funding is coming, and that help is on the way is simply betraying the reality. When we look at what the Prime Minister has said about fixing the crisis, by all accounts this situation is in further decline.

The Minister of National Defence, who is present, has made statements in the House that would lead Canadians to believe that the government has invested heavily in the military. This is simply not supported by the facts when one examines the budgets and cuts that have been made to his department.

The Prime Minister bragged about some of the acquisition that has occurred. Yet we know that DND's strategic capability investment plan, the Prime Minister's own announcements, falls some $20 billion short or 75% of the military budget for the last 15 years for equipment. That is a 75% shortfall. How does the minister square this reality with the figures that he has presented to the House of Commons and therefore to the Canadian people?

That type of shell game is dangerous. It is putting people's lives at risk and continues to contribute to the decline of our proud Canadian Forces. It is incredible that the Prime Minister would stand in the House and tell Canadians that he has addressed this crisis, as referred to by my leader, that he is fixing it for a generation. What utter bullroar. Absolute nonsense. This is not happening.

The reality is that he has not fixed the crisis in defence. He has failed to approve the full $27.5 billion that is needed just for equipment. That does nothing to address the shortfall of enrolment and recruitment that we need in the forces to bring our forces to the full necessary capacity of 80,000.

To put this in context, there are more active police officers in the City of New York than we have currently in the armed forces of Canada. We expect soldiers to do peacekeeping, peacemaking, peacebuilding by putting them between warring factions in other countries. They need the proper training and equipment to do so.

Peacekeeping is a fine word. It is one in which we take great pride in this country. Canadians feel very emotional about the state of our peacekeeping forces and yet they are soldiers. They are there to do very dangerous work. Their very lives and their very being is put in peril. Their families are living at home in Canada awaiting their return in substandard housing. Many of them have chosen to live off military reserves because of the state of that housing. Much of that housing puts their own health at risk because of lead, and poor water and environmental conditions.

It is far past the time to address these situations head on. We cannot emphasize enough the immediacy of this situation, the dire straits which our Canadian armed forces personnel continue to face both at home and abroad. There is a real need and expectation from Canadians that the Government of Canada will simply do the right thing to properly fund and immediately address this shortfall.

In conclusion, on behalf of the Conservative Party of Canada, I want to personally give assurances that we will both respect, support and continue to fully do our role in opposition to bring this to the attention of the House and to push the government to make the proper investment that is required on behalf of our armed forces. I want to thank those men and women who continue to do this very important work on behalf of Canadians both at home and abroad.

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10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Pat O'Brien Liberal London—Fanshawe, ON

Madam Speaker, I thank the deputy leader for his comments. I also want to thank the Leader of the Opposition for his comments, much with which I agree, and I think with which many of the colleagues on this side agree. Obviously, there are some points with which we disagree.

I welcome the deputy leader's comments about not scoring partisan points. That is the spirit in which we have tried to operate at the SCONDVA. That has been my experience and certainly all members on both sides hope that will continue to be the spirit in which we operate.

I would like to ask him to help me debunk one point that has been repeatedly stated. It was the subject of a conversation last night between myself and the official defence critic for the opposition party. It relates to this continued talk about sending our troops into harm's way in a desert situation in green uniforms.

About last April at the SCONDVA, the defence committee, we heard from the former Canadian commander in Afghanistan, Major General Leslie. He indicated that it was his decision to send those troops in with that equipment. He did not want the desert uniforms. This was testimony from the man who was there. He indicated very clearly the rationale for that was that much of the work Canadians were doing was at night and that it was for the safety of his personnel.

I am sorry if the opposition does not want the facts from Major General Leslie. I heard an indication of not wanting to score partisan points. We agree there are some real needs and real shortfalls in our equipment, but let us not give in to hyperbole. Let us admit it when we are wrong. The deputy leader is wrong on that point. According to the testimony of Major General Leslie, he deliberately chose the uniforms for safety and to distinguish the Canadian troops.

I the member aware of that testimony? Could he help debunk the idea that somehow they were sent in with the improper equipment?

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10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to respond. In fact I was aware of the testimony. What is really sad and disturbing, and worse than bringing partisanship into this debate, is trying to blame it on the forces themselves. That is the only thing that could possibly be worse and it happened in this debate today.

The member opposite, who is the chair of the defence committee, was quick to come to the defence of the navy in suggesting that it was not because of navy decisions. It was the responsibility of the government. He talked about the need to examine thoroughly what happened to the HMCS Chicoutimi , and we are hopeful that that will happen. I know the minister himself is a compassionate man. He is a caring man. He does want to get to the bottom of what happened that cost the life of Lieutenant Saunders of the Royal Canadian Navy.

We in the opposition are committed to working with the government to find the proper solutions, but the bottom line is the funding has to be there. The priority has to come from the government. It has to be prepared to put cold hard cash into the Canadian Forces if the men and women are to continue to do the job that is expected of them, which is dangerous and costs lives. It comes from the blood, sweat and tears of men and women of this country who go out and do that work.

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10:45 a.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, apropos of the previous exchange, I was the person who asked that question in the Department of National Defence about the uniforms. I was persuaded at the time, and continue to be persuaded, that the answer was adequate and it was not a question of the officer at the time saying what he thought he should say. It is a good example of how certain incidents get blown up out of proportion and in the end do not serve the debate about defence spending very well.

My question for the deputy leader is this. His leader before him and he himself referred to the collaborative defence of North America. Could he tell us, because there was a paucity of comment on this in both speeches, about the position of the Conservative Party with respect to national missile defence? Perhaps while he is at it he could tell us, because so often in the past it has argued for public input, why the Conservative Party opposed the idea of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs holding public hearings into whether Canada should participate in this particular anti-missile defence system.

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10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Madam Speaker, at least the member did not use the words “star wars” and further try to alarm Canadians about this debate.

The reality is that we in the Conservative Party support Norad. We support keeping up our commitments within NATO. We support having a full and open debate in the House of Commons, which was part of an amendment that we made to the throne speech.

What we are asking is that the government lay out the position of the Government of Canada. We believe there should be an absolute open and transparent debate on what exactly this proposal means. It is frozen until the American election is over and the hon. member knows that. Yet there is a continued attempt on behalf of the NDP to bury its head in the sand and pretend somehow that we are living in splendid isolation on this continent.

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10:45 a.m.

Toronto Centre Ontario

Liberal

Bill Graham LiberalMinister of National Defence

Madam Speaker, I would like to begin by congratulating the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Central Nova for the introduction of this motion in the House. I look forward to hearing the comments from my critic, the member for Carleton—Mississippi Mills. As was pointed out, he is an addition to the House.

I believe it is important that we have opportunities to do what we are doing today and that we will have many extensive discussions on these important and timely issues in the House. Canadians expect no less. Defence is one of the most important and critical responsibilities of government, something that the government recognizes and on which it is acting.

The military in general and the navy in particular have been the subject of much discussion of late during question period and now in the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs. However, I welcome this dialogue today. There is no question that we need to support the men and women of the Canadian Forces as they go about their important work on our behalf.

I entirely support the comments of the Leader of the Opposition about the contribution that our armed forces have made to the history of Canada and to the creation of it. They are responsible for what we are today and we owe them that recognition. We must now take time to think critically about what we as a country expect from our military, and today's debate is part of that process.

It will hardly surprise members if I tell them that I entirely reject the motion's preamble. The member for Central Nova rejected the idea this would be a debate involving partisanship, but he pretty quickly slipped into some hyperbole and false analogies that the member for Elmwood—Transcona, whose memory is good, was good enough to draw our attention to that.

We should all welcome the opportunity to debate the roles of the Canadian Forces and determine what is its security of the nation. I hope to demonstrate to the House that the government is engaged in the very process set out in the dispositive part of this motion.

As my colleagues will know, the government is now in the process of completing a defence review in conjunction with an overall review of Canada's place in the world. It is doing so with precisely a view to addressing some of the observations of the Leader of the Opposition and the member for Central Nova. The very criticisms they have about the capital plan and the strategic capability investment plan are exactly the types of things we should be examining together as we do this critical review.

Essentially, this defence policy review will enable us to set Canada's defence priorities and determine what kind of armed forces we will need in the future. Its primary objective will be to provide an effective and affordable defence policy that reflects the realities of today and tomorrow.

I believe all members of this House will agree that Canada is now facing extremely complex security and defence issues. As the dawn of this 21st century, we are confronting new threats such as international terrorism, the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and the danger surrounding bankrupt and near-bankrupt nations. In addition to these traditional destabilizing factors, we see new threats such as environmental crises, civil disturbances and pandemics.

In short, the fine line between security and defence has become blurred and may have completely disappeared. This has a considerable impact on the way we approach national and continental security, our relationships with our closest allies and partners, and how we protect—and project—our interests and values abroad.

All over the world, countries are adapting and transforming their armed forces in order to be able to respond to the strategic imperatives of the 21st century. That is the situation for our NATO allies, such as the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and others.

That is exactly what we want to accomplish with the defence policy review. The review will find an appropriate balance between the domestic and international responsibilities of our armed forces. It will also show us the way to improve the security of Canadians within our borders. This process began with the adoption of our national security policy, the first in the country's history.

Among the options we must now examine are increasing our surveillance and anti-terrorism capabilities and increasing the personnel and resources of the reserves in order to deal with domestic crises.

Now, more than ever, our security and protection must be viewed in a continental context. We are stronger because we work alongside our American partners. That is why the defence policy review will examine new and innovative ways of working with the United States to defend North America from emerging threats.

Internationally, the review will build on the government's multidimensional approach to foreign intervention and will examine how the Canadian forces can continue to participate in a wide variety of international operations.

We expect to conclude the review this fall, at which time we will seek the opinion of the parliamentary committees. I am sure all hon. members will agree that this process will allow everyone to express their opinion and contribute to the debate.

I would like to say I look forward to working with all the members in this House to determine what direction we should take in our defence policy.

As we look to prepare the Canadian Forces for the future, our point of departure must be a recognition, first and foremost, of the skill, professionalism and impressive capability of our current military.

Over the past few years, as Minister of Foreign Affairs and now as Minister of National Defence, I have had the privilege to witness firsthand the outstanding work performed by the men and women of the Canadian Forces in places as diverse as Bosnia, Afghanistan, Haiti and elsewhere.

I am extremely proud of our men and women in uniform. They have consistently met and very often exceeded expectations and, in that spirit, to imply, as the preamble to the motion does and much of the comments coming from the opposite benches do, that they cannot properly do their job is, in my view, to display a lack of respect for the Canadian Forces themselves.

Let us consider for a few moments the nature of their work. I am speaking of the superhuman efforts of our search and rescue technicians whose typical evening might involve going out into the harshest of conditions imaginable to help someone in need right here in our own country. Or, of the young faces of a handful of determined sailors from HMCS Calgary heading off to inspect suspicious freighters in the sweltering heat of the Persian Gulf.

I am convinced that the Canadian Forces are one of the most effective and capable armed forces in the world. There should be no doubt in the minds of Canadians that our soldiers, sailors and air personnel are able to deploy and, when called upon, to fight alongside the best militaries in the world.

Two years ago Canadian troops deployed to Afghanistan and, together with American forces, they fought remnants of the oppressive Taliban regime, as well as al-Qaeda terrorists, in a very harsh environment. Their extraordinary contribution earned them praise from our American allies. I think the opposition would do well to consider that praise and consider the fact that those troops went into a dangerous situation equipped to do the job they had to do and did it well.

We returned to Afghanistan last year to undertake a different but equally important mission. With some 2,000 Canadian Forces personnel in the Afghan capital of Kabul, we were the largest troop contributor to the NATO led international security assistance force. Under the able leadership of Lieutenant General Rick Hillier, Canada assumed command of the overall international mission for a six month period. This was among the most significant commands held by a member of the Canadian Forces since the Suez crisis of 1956.

If I could break here to just remind the members opposite that when they denigrate what is being achieved by saying that they were ill-equipped and not prepared, I just want to say that our NATO allies chose the Canadians to lead that mission. Our NATO allies were willing to put the lives of their troops under the command of a Canadian officer with his troops. That is a demonstration of the international community's recognition of what our troops can do, not a bipartisan attack in this House.

In the Arabian Gulf our navy has been widely recognized for its skill and interdiction operations and shipboardings. In 2003 the Canadian navy led a multinational force composed of over 20 ships from several allied countries in the Persian Gulf.

How could there be any doubt about the capability of our armed forces? I am sure all members of the House will agree that what I have just outlined does not reflect a military with decaying capabilities.

We must do better. Since 1999 this government has invested more than $10 billion of new money in defence so that our Canadian Forces would have the means to function effectively in the 21st century. In the 2004 budget alone, this government allocated $1.6 billion of new money for defence.

This government under the current Prime Minister has allocated more than $7 billion for buying new equipment for the Canadian Forces, including more than $3 billion for new sea helicopters, more than $2 billion for joint supply vessels, more than $1 billion for new search and rescue planes and roughly $700 million for mobile gun systems. I am talking about new equipment.

This new equipment will reinforce the high-tech capabilities the Canadian Forces already have such as our Coyote reconnaissance vehicles, our new light infantry carriers, G-Wagens , our frigates and our first class maritime coastal defence vessels, as well as our CF-18 fighter aircraft and upgraded Aurora surveillance aircraft.

Need I remind the members of this House that our lightly armoured vehicles, the LAV-IIIs, which are built in London, Ontario—our committee chair will be pleased with this reference—are also being sold to other forces throughout the world?

The government recognizes that we can and we must do better for our armed forces. As we conduct the defence review we are not standing still.

In the recent Speech from the Throne the government committed to increasing the size of the Canadian Forces by 5,000 regular force personnel in order to allow our military to assume an even greater role in bringing peace, security and democracy to troubled nations.

We are also moving forward on our commitment to increase the size of Canada's reserves by some 3,000 personnel. In addition to complementing our forces deployed abroad, a strengthened reserve force will provide Canada with much needed capacity to respond to domestic crises, including terrorist incidents, chemical, biological and nuclear emergencies and national disasters.

Taken together, those are most significant commitments to defence and they are the most significant commitments in more than a decade. They are a clear demonstration of the government's commitment to modernizing and strengthening Canada's armed forces.

I would like to make one point very clear. Contrary to what the motion before us implies, expanding the size of the Canadian Forces will not be done at the expense of our existing capabilities. As I have said before, it will not be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. The additional troops will be funded through new investment by the government. I am currently working to have these new resources featured in the next federal budget. I look forward to collaboration with my colleagues across the floor so we can ensure that happens.

The government is committed to ensuring that the Canadian Forces are prepared in all respects, that they have the training and equipment they need to perform their respective roles, both through the defence of Canada, of North America with our American allies, and in their missions abroad when called upon to do so by the government.

Indeed, the past few years have seen significantly increased pressures on our forces to respond to events in many quarters of the world. Each response has carried with it its own unique set of challenges, from Afghanistan to Bosnia, from Ethiopia and Eritrea to Haiti.

In rising to these challenges our forces have established an enviable record of bringing the best of Canadian values to help establish security and relieve suffering in some of the world's most troubled places.

Our forces have demonstrated an ability to adapt to different and challenging environments. They work with foreign affairs and CIDA to combine diplomacy, defence and development in an integrated approach that will increase the effectiveness of Canada's actions on the international scene. All of this has made them an indispensable asset in the search for global peace and security.What we have learned from their experience is in fact that the world wants more of their services.

All Canadians can take pride in their contribution. I know that Canadians will follow with interest the debates in the House as we conduct our defence review and establish the policy guidelines that will enable our forces to meet the challenges of the future.

The government is committed to that goal and we back that commitment with the significant new investments that I referred to earlier in my speech. We also recognize of course that, as in the case of all countries that are seeking to transform their military, more needs to be done, but it needs to be done intelligently and it must be done clearly. Their role must be defined. The task of our forces must be set out. The types of future investments in equipment and training must be reviewed. This will be our duty as we continue the important task of the defence review.

Let us therefore begin this task, not with a partisan litany of issues from the past, but rather with a recognition of the great role that our forces have played to date and a collective determination to work together to build on this record, to improve on one of our greatest national assets so that it may continue the role of defending us while contributing to the security of others who live in far less fortunate circumstances than ourselves.

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11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Gordon O'Connor Conservative Carleton—Lanark, ON

Madam Speaker, the minister has given us a very rosy travelogue of the defence department. He has also told us what the government may do in the future. What he has not told us is what the problems are in defence right now, and they are quite severe.

One of the prime responsibilities of a government and the military is to protect our sovereignty. Would the minister explain why in the north of Canada we cannot survey on a continuous basis by air, land and sea? Why can we not deploy troops rapidly there? Why we do not have enough Arctic equipment? Why are our troops not trained in the north. How are we enforcing our sovereignty in the north?

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11:05 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague's question gives us an opportunity to discuss something that we will be looking at in the course of the review.

We consider that sovereignty in the Arctic is a key feature of what the government is determined to do. The Prime Minister has spoken regularly on the need for us to increase our activities in the Arctic.

However it would be unreasonable and misleading to suggest that nothing is being done. Just recently we had a very substantial operation in the Arctic. It involved not only our forces, but also civilian responders in that area. We are looking at ways in which we can use unmanned aircraft as a way of continuing our surveillance. We are looking at ways in which we can employ modern conditions in the Arctic to guarantee our sovereignty.

I accept the premise that more can be done but I reject the premise that nothing is being done. Somewhere between those two, lies the truth. Let us work together to find out how we can ensure we get the right assets, the right approach and get the job done.

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11:05 a.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time I have been on my feet since you have been in the Chair and I congratulate you on your appointment.

One of the concerns we have had has been the poor treatment of our forces. It is the only way I can put it. I know the minister wishes to avoid past practices. However let me just ask the minister if there are any plans to deal with the issue of housing on the bases or of providing additional remuneration to the lower ranks in particular, from lieutenant on down, so they would have the ability to cope with the general expenses for themselves and their families, especially when they are on active duty for this country.

Along the same lines, I want to speak specifically to the housing and the horror stories we have heard. From the perspective of our party, very few of those housing accommodations on the bases have been improved over the last few years. This has been raised repeatedly in the House. Is there any prospect that the government, in the very near future, will address the issue of housing and better remuneration? If so, the recruitment that is underway at this time, initiated by this specific administration, will be much more successful and we will draw the best candidates in the country.

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11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I certainly subscribe to the point raised by the hon. member from Windsor, that the quality of life of the members of our armed services, here in Canada and when they are serving abroad, must be an important preoccupation of the government.

The member will recall in recent times that the defence committee specifically did a study and travelled across the country. Previous defence ministers addressed the issue of salary and other issues.

Do we continue to have concerns? Of course we have concerns. Will we continue to try to bring up the standards? Of course we will continue to bring up those standards. The department and the military leadership itself are determined that first comes the security of our forces and then comes their quality of life. We recognize that. We will work on these issues to ensure that they have the quality of life they need and deserve as they serve our country.

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11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, I know time is short but I would like to pose a quick question to the minister.

He said at the close of his remarks that he was hoping the debate today would not be conducted with a partisan litany of the record of the past. With all due respect, we do have to examine the past to make sure we do not repeat the mistakes of the past. That would be the reason that many people in the House are bringing up issues of inadequacy of the funding that the government has provided for our military.

I wonder how the minister can square his desire to see the debate conducted in a non-partisan way when members of his party perpetrated a terrific lie on the Canadian people during the election campaign when they ran television ads day after day that showed the Conservative Party of Canada was in favour of buying nuclear aircraft carriers for our military when they knew that was not true. They knew it was a lie and yet the Liberal Party did that day after day with ads on television. How can the minister now stand and say that he hopes we have the debate in a non-partisan manner?

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11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, let me make this clear. Election campaigns tend to be extremely partisan affairs. What I suggested to the House in my speech today was that for the good of the future of our forces and for what we are trying to achieve, what is needed here is a dispassionate review of the policies that we need to put into place, the equipment and the training that our forces need in order to do their job in defending North America and in projecting Canada's values abroad. That is what we are trying to do and I ask the hon. member to do that.

Many issues were discussed during the campaign. My recollection is that a suggestion came from the other side of the floor about purchasing an aircraft carrier. That seemed to us to be a real folly. It seemed to be the type of expense on equipment that was totally unjustified for the needs of a modern army that has to face asymmetric threats of terrorism in a different world situation. Let us not do that. That is not where we are going. It was not a good idea and we still reject it.

If the member wants to argue about the past and the election, I would be happy to argue about the election. However I would prefer to talk about what we can do to help our forces face the future. We need to do that in the House, not drag up the election.

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11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the minister, we cannot let this stand the way it is right now.

He knows, because he must have been talking to the navy, that it desperately needs those ships to move troops and equipment overseas. We talked then about a hybrid carrier. It is basically a cargo ship with a flight deck on top for helicopters. We are not talking about a nuclear aircraft carrier similar to what the United States has. He knew it then and his party knew it then, and they know it now. I cannot believe he would stand up in the House and try to defend the indefensible when he knows that the navy needs those ships and our country needs those ships.

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11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, of course we recognize that. That is exactly why the government came out in support of the joint support checks the Prime Minister spoke of when he was in Halifax. He specifically said we need the type of modern equipment that is focused on that, not aircraft carriers. That is what we need and we are focused on that. We will make sure we get the best equipment for our forces, whether it is our maritime forces or our land forces.

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11:15 a.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources

Mr. Speaker, first I have a comment with respect to the opposition whip. I would like to have on the record the fact that the member is the first person in history to have been the whip of three different parties. I would like to congratulate him for that.

I would like to comment on one point the opposition whip has made. He suggested that we should review the mistakes of the past. I would like to make sure it is on the record that the Conservatives cancelled the Avro Arrow.

The opposition critic brought up a good point relating to northern sovereignty and I am glad he did. When the Prime Minister became leader of our party his first speech was on northern sovereignty, something which I have been pushing for. Last year the military responded with a great arctic exercise. It made the front page of the paper. It was the longest patrol in history, the UAV patrols of Baffin Island, the first ever full scale exercise in the north, millions of dollars to map the north, more money for the rangers and junior rangers, and complete satellite coverage of the north.

I know it was in the throne speech, but I would like to get assurance from the minister that support for northern sovereignty will continue.

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11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Bill Graham Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member for Yukon is extremely knowledgeable about the north, being a member from there. I have had the opportunity to visit him in his constituency. It is his concern for the issues of the north that obviously make him such a great member of Parliament.

I can assure him that I personally as well as others will work with him as we address these complicated issues.

As minister of foreign affairs I had the opportunity to go to meetings of the Arctic Council. I met with my American, Russian, Finnish, Norwegian and other counterparts. We were all looking at ways to make sure that we can deal with the emerging issues of the Arctic, which clearly are going to be one of the most important changing issues in our global environment. I can assure the hon. member that the Canadian military will be playing its part.

Exercise Narwahl, which we just finished, was the beginning of a set of measures which will make sure that we are not only present there and cooperating with civilian responders, but that we will be there in the future as these issues unfold.