House of Commons Hansard #25 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was competition.

Topics

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member who is disturbing me a great deal might be called to order.

Right from the start, there is something lacking in the agency mandate, since it is stated that it will be implementing an integrated federal strategy. We know very well, regardless of what the minister may say, that Ottawa is not in a position to put that strategy in place, because the majority of files and issues do not fall under its jurisdiction.

Regardless of what they are saying, the Constitution states that powers may be given to the provinces and to Quebec. There is mention of natural resources, education, training, municipalities, infrastructure.

When we look at and read this text more carefully, when it comes to cooperative relations with Quebec, business circles, unions, any other private or public agencies that have to be directed or coordinated, the condition should be that the federal government respect Quebec's jurisdictions, and especially the fact that the Government of Quebec is the only interlocutor in these cases. It cannot be said enough. We cannot explain it enough. The members of the Bloc will repeat it over and over again. The Government of Quebec has to be the only one in charge in most of the areas covered in Bill C-9.

In all of these cases there has to be—this is important and was mentioned earlier—an agreement with the Government of Quebec to ensure that it has the right to opt out with full compensation. Nothing will be effective or work properly. The economy will keep slowing down if the agreements do not include the right to opt out with full compensation. As far as that goes, Quebec is far from obtaining this mandate, especially when we listen to the responses of ministers such as the Minister of Social Development on the issue of child care. He keeps avoiding questions by giving somewhat vague answers.

If we look carefully at this bill, the government's intention is clear: to politicize the development of our regions using an across the board approach. Quite a lot of work needs to be done, what with the sponsorship scandal, the firearms registry and so forth. This particular approach needs to be properly orchestrated: announcements, visibility, in order to have input. As for federal minister intervention in the selection of projects, it is the minister who decides. He will select the project. He will organize everything and avoid inviting the member responsible. He will make an announcement. He will be seen. It is a way of preparing his election campaign. That is this government's only intention with this bill, nothing else. Development is secondary.

The minister said so himself earlier. He said that economic development was not among Quebec's jurisdictions; that Quebec had no business in it. We know. Historically, it goes back to the British North America Act. When the powers were divided, in sections 91 and 92, all the important powers were given to the federal government and the rest of the minor powers went to Quebec.

At least that is what people say. It cannot work and it will never work. The minister confirmed it just now. He said that in the confederation documents, Quebec had no powers. But of course, as we all know very well, it is not a confederation, but a centralized and centralizing federal system.

Thus, ministers intervene in the selection of projects. They make themselves look good. They launch multiple operations to enhance visibility. And there, too, they have a whole process for announcements. Just now he gave a whole series. That is standard; considering how much we contribute as income tax to the federal government, some of it has to come back to us.

And they have added the whole business of handing out flags and sponsorships, and what next? That is certainly in the works for the next election campaign.

This interest in regional economic development has come on rather suddenly. If Ottawa is sincerely interested in the remote regions of Quebec, it can do two things.

First, it can transfer the money allocated to economic development directly to Quebec. As we mentioned, that is about $450 million. Quebec will use it in its own way, because it already has a regional economic development policy. For example, it will be aware of the problems in the riding of Mégantic—L'Érable which include softwood lumber, mad cow, maple syrup and asbestos. I repeat once more that at the end of the week, a mine is going to close. Quebec will know how to use this money for effective regional development. That is the first thing.

Second, I think that the government should begin by targeting activity sectors that will produce concrete results. Let it start in its own back yard. Let it put its house in order and work with its own powers and institutions.

First, for example, and I repeat, the government will respect Quebec's jurisdiction. The responsibility for orchestrating the activities that are fundamental to regional development belongs to Quebec. The government cannot do regional development. It is not written in the Constitution, except that it is impossible to do it in an integrated way without dealing with Quebec on education, health and municipalities.

Second, we talked earlier about the CFDCs. The government should begin by respecting local consultation and development organizations. We are talking about the CFDCs or the economic development corporations. It should not just barge in and impose itself as usual.

Then, there is a marked weakness in the area of capital assets. In this respect, the government has to bring federal spending to an acceptable level. It is not necessary to create an agency or to duplicate any service to achieve that. It can be done with existing resources.

We also made comparisons. We are a federation. There are 10 provinces, and we have to ensure a certain level of fairness. The regional budget must be the same in Quebec as it is in the Maritimes. The situation has never been fair in the area of regional development budgets.

I could mention numerous issues that the government should target before creating a new agency. The last one is an EI reform that would meet regional needs. This is how we can ensure development.

I was talking about the budget earlier. In relative terms, the federal government is investing three times less in regional development in Quebec than in the Maritimes. We have seen that. We have statistics. The four maritime provinces receive $164 per capita while Quebec only gets $51, or one-third. For the unemployed, the difference is $2,700 to $1,037.

This problem existed elsewhere too. It existed in the Prairies, in western Canada in general. They have had to face the same kind of underfunding problem that Quebec is facing now. But when Ontario or the Maritimes complain, the federal government usually sits down and listens to what the provinces have to say. However, when Quebec wants something, it is never taken seriously.

The problem was resolved. The situation in the Maritimes was corrected in part with the last federal budget. Ottawa increased by 32% its support to regional development in the Prairies, in the west, as compared to only 7% in Quebec. Injustice remains. Nothing can justify the effort made for the Gaspé being one third that made for New Brunswick.

Instead of establishing a new department, creating, as I said earlier, a new bureaucracy, duplication and a new way of making itself visible, the federal government should have transferred to Quebec financial support proportionally comparable to the support provided to every other province. That is the first point.

As for the employment insurance reform, much has been said about it and more could be said. The regions have been particularly hard hit by the cuts to employment insurance. Tens of thousands of dollars in cuts were made. In my riding, which encompasses three regions, including L'Érable and Le Granit, considerable losses have also been recorded in the asbestos industry.

We are talking about regional development. Meaningless figures and statistics are being tossed around. Those most affected by these cuts are young people, workers whose employment status is precarious and seasonal workers. Their situation is being overlooked, and they are being ignored.

The cuts have been particularly painful to seasonal workers, as they have difficulty working enough hours to qualify for benefits. When they do qualify, the number of benefit weeks is insufficient to carry them over until the next work season. This was mentioned earlier. They are left with no income. But that does not matter. What matters is the government's visibility in preparation for an upcoming election. That is what matters.

When these workers finally receive benefits, they are penalized by the benefit schedule. As a result, the cuts have amplified the already serious problem posed by youth exodus. Efforts were being made to find ways to get them to stay. But the minister tells us that the powers of Canada Economic Development do not extend to our regions.

The problem of seasonal jobs has grown bigger and bigger. The government should help young people and families out of the poverty it has forced them into.

Let me conclude with this. The Bloc Québécois position is quite clear. We oppose Bill C-9 because it is of no use for regions in Quebec. They can say all they want, the responsibilities of the Economic Development Agency will remain the same. Programs and budgets are unchanged. Why should we support an agency or a piece of legislation that is useless?

Second, the Senate has just established a federal department of regional development. That is just more duplication. Like my colleague said earlier, the minister has listed everything he had done in the department he is now responsible for, and the new department will go further. This is a real federal department of regional development in Quebec that will be duplicated.

As a matter of fact, regions need an integrated development strategy. We all agree on this. But only Quebec is in a position to implement this strategy. Despite every thing that can be said, constitutional texts and traditions grant Quebec some powers in the area of development. Any strategy that can be implemented by Quebec must include many different things like natural resources, education, training, and municipalities. None of this is under federal jurisdiction.

Right now, neither Quebec nor Ottawa are investing enough money in regional development. We are still looking for a full-fledged government.

For all these reasons, we will vote against this bill.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Liberal

Peter Adams LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Mr. Speaker, I may have been mistaken, given that the subject was economic development, but I thought I heard the member mention the gun control program. I just wondered what concerns he had with that very successful program.

The program has resulted in thousands of people being disqualified from owning guns. As the House knows, all gun crimes are down since that legislation came in, but in particular, theft and the illegal trading of guns are both down considerably. The matter of the initial cost overrun has been dealt with. My understanding is that the program is now very tightly capped as far as financing is concerned. However, despite all of that, three people a day still die from guns and most of them from long guns.

I am surprised. I know the member is interested in hunting. In Ontario anyway, all forms of hunting, except duck hunting, have gone up steadily since the legislation came in. I think hunting is perceived as a safer, more attractive pastime.

Given that the legislation was triggered in part by the massacre at the University of Montreal and by the outcry in Quebec that arose over that, I just wondered, unless I was mistaken, why the member went out of his way in a debate on economic development to mention such a successful program.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question. I did not insist, I simply gave examples of bad management. I point out to the member that one of my nieces was at the École polytechnique at that time. I have always been in favour of gun control, but not in favour of a program that was administered the way it was. It may be well managed today, but it was not then, and this is what we must criticize. This is an example that I gave. That being said, I am in favour of gun control if the program is well managed.

It is the same with sponsorships. There are sponsorships that were badly administered. They were administered for a very specific purpose. It was the same with firearms. So much the better if the program is well managed today.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Brossard—La Prairie Québec

Liberal

Jacques Saada LiberalMinister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec and Minister responsible for the Francophonie

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased that my colleague referred to his region and the Asbestos area. He will agree with me that the decision the Canadian government made regarding white asbestos was the right one. If we had agreed to the inclusion of chrysotile asbestos in the PIC procedure of the Rotterdam Convention, this would have created problems even bigger than those the region is facing today. I assume I have his support. At any rate, at the time, it was indicated to me verbally that everybody was in support of the decision we made. We did it to protect the region.

I must add that, when we made the decision, we kept in mind economic diversification, as we do for Quebec as a whole. In other words, one of the ways to provide for regional vulnerability is to foster economic diversification so as not to depend on one industry, but on several. With this in mind, in the asbestos region especially because of the problems linked to asbestos, we put in place a regional strategic initiative, or RSI, focussed on the needs of the Asbestos RCM.

We invested $3.3 million over two years in this RSI to foster the economic diversification I just mentioned. To date, a score of jobs have been created. Some 20 jobs have been saved, and we are currently working with Serres du Saint-Laurent inc. to create 54 more jobs.

I would like to know if in fact, regardless of political rhetoric, my colleague supports the decision of the Government of Canada not to include chrysotile asbestos to the list of products under the Rotterdam Convention, and also if he supports the regional strategic initiative, which, by the way, was set up in close cooperation with the industry and the provincial government.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. As far as Rotterdam goes, I am of course in favour. We agree on that. In fact, the Bloc Québécois has always defended chrysotile asbestos. We even presented a memorandum on that subject in order to ask Canada not to include chrysotile in the list of hazardous substances. The public was happy with that decision, which the Bloc supports. For the last 12 years, the Bloc has advocated the safe use of chrysotile and it will continue to do so.

Regarding the RSI, the town of Asbestos is not located in my riding, but it is still part of the Amiante region. This initiative should also be implemented in the Amiante region, with the same conditions you gave to Asbestos. We would gladly welcome it.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Jacques Saada Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will not be particularly political in what I am about to say.

When the asbestos issue arose and the Government of Canada had to reach a decision, I think everyone will agree that a wonderful job of raising people's awareness was done by Gérard Binet, who was a member of this House at the time. Democracy must respected, but that does not mean we have to forget history. The history is that this colleague, Gérard Binet, is the real force behind the asbestos issue.

I must also add that my predecessor at the head of Canada Economic Development, the Minister of Industry at the time, put this regional strategic initiative in place. There are others in the province, moreover. This is not the only one. The specific characteristic of an RSI is to provide assistance for economic diversification to a region in crisis or with the potential for crisis. The initiative is created according to specific regional needs, and so of course there can be differences between one region's initiative and another's.

The result of this bill is that not only can the approach be region by region, but it can also be zone by zone. There may be a specific problem that will arise in a series of villages within one region of Quebec and in another series of villages in another region of Quebec. Since these are in different regions, they would automatically not be covered by a regional definition.

With this bill, we can group together these hot spots into identified zones in order to target them with a specific point-in-time intervention to deal with a specific problem. This is possible because of the bill.

I do not understand —and I say this with all sincerity. This bill is in fact an administrative measure intended to give a federal minister, one who comes from Quebec, the mandate to work in conjunction with Quebec ministers and Quebec communities to address problems of regional development in Quebec. Apart from the major issue on which we have a difference of opinion as to the option defended by the party across the way, there is no consistent, concrete, logical and immediate argument against our having the tools in hand to work better together on regional development.

An Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, about this last statement, I must say that, very often, we have been burned by integrated federal strategies for economic development whose results were not always as expected.

It still seems, especially based on your earlier premise, that economic development does not fall under Quebec jurisdiction and that it is a federal responsibility.

As fas as chrysotile asbestos is concerned, you are right. It is a concern of all members. I remind the minister and member that Jean-Guy Chrétien, who was an MP from 1993 to 2000, was also a strong advocate of chrysotile. He had invited some fifteen ambassadors to a meeting in Thetford Mines to talk about chrysotile asbestos, at a time when Germany and Europe had imposed a stringent ban and the Liberal Party was not doing much to stop it. I stress that Jean-Guy Chrétien was a strong advocate.

As for Mr. Binet, his efforts were recognized. Personally, when I was a member of the Quebec National Assembly, I was the first one to implement a policy for the safe use of chrysotile. This policy was unanimously adopted at the time.

It is therefore one our concerns. We recognize the members who acted. When it is beneficial for the region, we recognize it.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, discussions have taken place between all parties and I believe you would find consent for the following motion. I move:

That at the conclusion of today's recorded divisions on the report stage of Bill C-6, the House shall proceed immediately to adjournment proceedings pursuant to Standing Order 38. Following the said adjournment proceedings, or at 6:30 p.m., whichever comes first, the House shall proceed to the business of supply in committee of the whole pursuant to Standing Order 81(4)(a).

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-9, an act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, after my remarks, Bill C-9 brings no changes to the situation that has existed until now. The powers of Canada Economic Development remain the same. Programs, like budgets, are unchanging.

Canada Economic Development is currently under the official jurisdiction of the Department of Industry, which, under clause 4, grants to the minister responsible certain powers that extend to fields related to the regional economic development of Quebec.

Under subsection 4(2), the Minister may offer a range of services likely to contribute to the regional economic development of Ontario and Quebec. For instance, they may relate to the improvement of the capabilities of businesses, the stimulation of investment and the support to local commercial associations as well as to SMEs, whether for the whole of regions, or for specific regions.

The Minister must elaborate, coordinate and recommend programs relating to regional economic development, in Ontario as well as in Quebec.

Hence, the Minister of Industry is responsible for the regional economic development of Quebec. As for Canada Economic Development , a federal agency that is essentially responsible for regional development, no one can deny its existence under the supervision of a minister of state, who is accountable to the Minister of Industry.

For the future, Bill C-9 creates an Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec with an autonomous legal basis. This agency will report to the minister and have a CEO. It will thus be a carbon copy of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency Act and of the Western Economic Diversification Act which both came into effect in 1988.

However, we must recognize that these two agencies do not create duplication because there is no regional development department in the Maritimes and in Western Canada, while there is one in Quebec.

Basically, the purpose of Bill C-9 is to create a federal department of regional development for Quebec and this, in actual fact, only confirms once again duplication of the Quebec government's prerogatives.

In fact, the bill states that the minister shallguide, promote and coordinate the policiesand programs of the Government ofCanada in relation to the development anddiversification of the economy of the regionsof Quebec. His mandate includes all the federal activities in the regions and the minister will have to channel projects, in cooperation with the other relevant federal departments or organizations, toward an integrated federal strategy.

The regions certainly need a strategy that is planned, ordered and orchestrated by all economic stimulators, but, once again, is Quebec not in the best position to better coordinate an integrated development strategy, considering its knowledge of the regions? Does the Constitution itself not give Quebec the responsibility for most of the issues relating to regional development?

Given the various components to include in such an approach, namely natural resources, education, training, municipal affairs, and so on, we must recognize that this is another way to interfere in Quebec's jurisdictions.

The problem, I think, is precisely that, in such a form of duplication, neither government is able to put all the necessary energy in integrated regional development.

Because of this, we see an anarchic situation that leads to astronomical unemployment rates in the regions. In 2003, for example, it was 17.5% in the Gaspé Peninsula and Magdalen Islands, 12% in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean and 13.7% on the North Shore.

In this sector as elsewhere, if the central government agrees to get involved in the orchestrated development of the regions, it would be better to do it in its areas of jurisdiction and, in doing so, it should take into account the following premises.

The first premise concerns respect of Quebec's areas of jurisdiction and of its responsibility as the architect of regional development.

As in numerous other areas, does the Quebec government not have a regional development policy that several governments envy?

The only thing missing is the wherewithal to adequately support emerging initiatives. The proof is that a transfer of funds of some $400 million—without any kind of overlap—would represent an injection which would make it possible to pull all the strings together in order to develop an integrated regional development policy.

Secondly, there is the issue of respect for existing local joint planning groups and of the adaptation of federal programs to regional Québec circumstances. These regional circumstances are not universal by nature. By way of example, a reorientation of development in another field of economic activity, under the pretext that existing sectors have reached their potential, can only be done with the consent of all local and regional bodies. This is exactly what is happening in the southern part of my riding, as well as in neighbouring ridings to the East and to the West, where there is a desire to integrate the recreation and tourism sector to complement agriculture and forestry.

The joint planning of this new orientation is in keeping with the wishes of the RCMs, the CLDs, the regional conference of elected officials and the chambers of commerce. One can only approve of such an approach. What is the use, within this singleminded journey, of adding a new player which might destroy the unanimity? I see the role of the federal body rather as one of financial and technical support, but, obviously, Québec's jurisdictions must be respected.

Such an objective approach might be much more effective if it were headed by the government in the best position to understand the overall issue—the Québec government.

So, ideally, an agreement must be reached with the government of Québec to guarantee it the right to opt out with full compensation. The former infrastructure program had provision for giving existing authorities their due, in that the Québec government selected the projects. Moreover, making sure that planning and dialogue bodies under both federal and provincial jurisdiction dedicated to regional development dovetailed better would no doubt facilitate the start of numerous businesses in the private sector and in the social economy.

Third, the decentralization of the federal public service would create new jobs in the regions. The quality of services would improve, and the regional economy would benefit from very well paid jobs. Between 1996 and 2003, when we had 20% of the federal jobs in Ottawa, we lost 8% of them in Saguenay. In 2003, the creation of federal jobs is not as good as it was 10 years ago, with 98 instead of 106. This should be corrected, and we do not need a new agency to do it.

Fourth, there is the implementation of a new infrastructure program and thus the return of federal capital spending to a more acceptable level.

Unfortunately, the regions are affected by the deficiencies is our highway system and telecommunications network, and because of that, they do not have proper access to foreign markets.

As concerns capital spending, is it normal that the Quebec government should invest five times more than the federal government? This is visible even in the Outaouais region. In 1999-2001, Quebec spent $546 million and the federal government $322 million. Is a $224 million difference acceptable? Certainly not.

By withdrawing from the management of air transport without any planning for this industry, the federal government has put a new burden on the regions, and they are now on their own to finance assets that are beyond their means. The same thing happened with regional sea ports, most of which are now falling apart.

How could potential buyers repair these assets if they do not get the budgets that should go with them?

Fifth, the regional development budget in Quebec should be updated in a framework similar to that of the Maritime provinces.

Until proof to the contrary is provided, the federal government invests three times more per capita in the Maritimes than it does in Quebec.

Strangely, the prairie provinces, which were in a situation identical to that of Quebec in terms of under-funding, had their support for regional development increased by the 32.3% compared with only 7% for Quebec.

Sixth, an immediate end to all this scattering of gifts and showing off, where the gestures have no purpose other than to increase visibility, while the ingredients of the process do not guarantee future results.

Finally, any reform of employment insurance that takes regional needs into account can only be for the better. It is always the young people, the vulnerable and seasonal workers who feel the cuts to employment insurance. The impact of this has been to increase the migration of young people to the big cities.

In short, when analyzing the state of health of Quebec's regions, we must recognize that there are many symptoms pointing not only to precarious health, but possibly to imminent death, and the federal government, it must be admitted, has not provided the right medicine at the right time.

We know that the federal government has considerable sums of money at its disposal, which it could use to improve regional development in Quebec. The fiscal imbalance recognized in the throne speech is the proof of that. But that being said, will such money be used once again for purely partisan purposes?

The Bloc Québécois, as the House knows, is not in favour of waste. Quebeckers do not want it. They made the government aware of that in the last election. We propose a healthy and productive way to use the funds that the government inopportunely wants to use to create a department of regional development for Quebec.

We strongly suggest to the government that it listen to our proposals instead of trying to suck us into an endless maze of functions and expenditures, which cannot do the job to the extent that they claim.

Consequently, we ask that, instead of duplicating what exists, the allotted funds be directly transferred to Quebec which, we will confirm, is in the best position to manage the efforts needed for balanced regional development, specific to the needs of each region.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Ottawa West—Nepean, Maher Arar Inquiry; the hon. member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl, Natural Resources; the hon. member for Calgary Centre-North, Oil and Gas Industry.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, first, I want to congratulate my two Bloc Québécois colleagues, the hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable, and the hon. member for Lévis—Bellechasse, for their brilliant presentation on the irrelevancy of this bill, which infringes even more on Quebec's jurisdictions.

Before putting my question, I want to briefly go back to a comment made by the hon. member for Brome—Missisquoi to the effect that there is only one taxpayer. He made a big deal of that and he seemed somewhat upset. What he did not say and what he should also have made a big deal of is the fact that, indeed, there is only one taxpayer, but he must pay double. And, in some respects, he is paying and hardly getting anything in return.

I have a question for my two colleagues. However, I think that, under the procedure, the last speaker is the one who can reply. The hon. member for Lévis—Bellechasse continued to elaborate on this infringement, which follows other infringements that already exist. To what extent does this new infringement add to the shabby treatment received by this same taxpayer?

Also, this bill goes against taxpayers' expectations. Does this mean that the federal government is trying to gradually withdraw from areas in which it got involved, so that it can make better use of the money distributed or paid in taxes by Quebec taxpayers? That is my question.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, we have to acknowledge that it is not necessarily the formula that is bad. We cannot criticize the federal government for having an approach to trying to find a solution to the problems or to create a new dynamic.

The thing is, in my riding and in the two bordering ridings, in the past few weeks and in the past year, we have seen the closure of a factory in Montmagny, resulting in the loss of 500 jobs. Most of the workers were 50 or older. They were left in a state of uncertainty when this issue was not dealt with.

Recently in my riding, and the same two ridings I just mentioned, there has been massive job loss in the clothing and textile industry. Are the measures implemented by the federal government going to make up for all these layoffs? So far this has not been the case.

My riding has the second most agricultural RCM in Quebec and it specializes in dairy. No need to tell you that cull has been a thorn in the side of almost all dairy farmers.

The southern part of my riding works in agroforestry. Do I need to get into how limited shipping to the United States has its own set of problems? Not only do woodlot owners and sawmill owners have problems, but this has caused uncertainty for all the workers.

There is something I want to respond to. When I was a municipal politician, we had a winning formula. It was called the infrastructure program. This program had a solution that was advantageous to the Government of Quebec and to Quebec taxpayers, because files were handled in consultation with all the related agencies, the provincial government and the federal government. What is important to realize is that all the cases were chosen by the Government of Quebec. This was a winning formula because it did not cause any interference in the jurisdictions of the Government of Quebec.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Loyola Hearn Conservative St. John's South, NL

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the member two brief questions, one dealing with one of his comments about older workers in particular being displaced when an industry shuts down.

Certainly we have gone through a lot of that. Quite often many of these people are left in a complete vacuum, yet we have a surplus in the EI fund of $40 billion, money which these people paid in over the years and for which in some cases they received absolutely no return. Some of these people worked all their lives and did not draw any social benefits. Others, because of seasonal employment, might have.

I ask the member why it is that some of this fund is not used to help people who have been displaced, particularly if they are at an age when it is almost impossible to find new employment.

Second, the member talks about Quebec and the need of each province to benefit from its resources and certainly I agree to a large extent. However, yesterday evening in the House we had a resolution asking the government to live up to its promise to let Newfoundland and Labrador benefit from its oil resources, to at least hold on to its share of the revenues from a major resource, and the very party that stresses provincial ownership and responsibility voted against the resolution.

How does the member account for the fact that his party did not support a sister province in looking for what his province is constantly looking for?

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Bloc

Réal Lapierre Bloc Lévis—Bellechasse, QC

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to tell my colleague that, with respect to older workers, this is a growing problem for us that reflects the aging of the general Canadian population.

There was once a program, called POWA, to help those workers. Given the increase in the available financial resources in the last few budgets, it would be appropriate, before even considering the creation of new programs and new approaches in order to discover new methods of job creation, to use these surpluses so as to enable workers to qualify either for retraining or training in a new craft.

Coming now to the second question, which relates to the fact that Quebec may not have supported the Conservatives with respect to oil and gas extraction in the province of Newfoundland, there is one thing that must be acknowledged. We, in Quebec, have chosen, particularly in the field of energy, a source that is considered “cleaner”. We have invested billions of dollars in hydroelectricity. We are currently investing billions in wind power.

This means that, as of that time, we had to assume that, having invested so much in clean energy, we were suddenly in a situation where we were again making financial concessions that could ultimately turn out to be detrimental for us. Indeed, if Newfoundland were to obtain exemptions for the royalties it could receive for those areas, we would consider this a kind of misuse of our contribution.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5 p.m.

Liberal

David Smith Liberal Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, as the representative for the riding of Pontiac, in the beautiful province of Quebec, I am very happy to have the opportunity to address the House in considering the bill on the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.

This bill is aimed at establishing the framework for the agency's activities in the coming years in Abitibi, the Outaouais, Quebec City, the Greater Montreal area, in all of Quebec's regions.

With this bill, the agency will have the means to carry out its mandate to the extent expected of an agency in tune with the 21st century.

If this bill is passed, the agency will be able to keep on addressing the needs of all Canadians, in keeping with this government's commitment. The bill before us today must be seen as part of a continuum.

Indeed, it was once again a Liberal government that, in 1969, created the Department of Regional Economic Expansion, a forerunner of the Economic Development Agency ofCanada for the Regions of Quebec. Our government is strongly committed to leveling out regional disparities in Canada and is giving itself the means to do so.

As you will see, this government's confidence in all Canadians goes a long way back. Each and every one of them must have the same opportunities with regard to the pursuit of wellness. We have always believed that all our fellow citizens must be able to realize their full potential, regardless of the region where they live.

The Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec has a very important role to play in order to help the government of Canada ensure the prosperity of all our fellow citizens from the regions of Quebec. The agency's mandate is to promote the economic development of Quebec regions, including those with low income levels, slow economic growth or insufficient productive employment possibilities. It also focuses on long-term economic development, employment and sustainable revenue.

The agency's mandate is also to concentrate on small and medium-sized enterprises and to promote entrepreneurial capabilities. We all know that SMEs are an important part of Quebec's economy. They account for 43% of all jobs and contribute 29% of manufacturing value added.

Over the years, the agency has tried to give SMEs, the true engine of economic growth in Quebec, the most useful information on government resources that can help them to keep on growing.

I would now like to tell the House about something that occurred last week in my riding, a resource area of Quebec where lumber from our forests is processed and from where products are sold across Canada and exported to the US. Some citizens of my riding of Pontiac import lumber from Peru. People import lumber from Peru in the Outaouais region of Quebec, specifically in the riding of Pontiac, in the municipality of Déléage. Why?

Simply put, through Canada Economic Development, support is provided to a Quebec company importing wood from Peru for secondary and tertiary processing in the county of Pontiac, manufacturing mouldings and solid core doors for sale on the Canadian, Quebec and U.S. markets. This is creating jobs in our region, in our ridings where people need jobs as well as support from the various levels of government. That is what Canada Economic Development is offering.

In partnership with organizations such as Info Entreprises in Montreal and Ressources Entreprises in Quebec City, the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec can answer more than one million—that is right, one million—inquiries annually about government programs. This goes to show that there is a need. Canada Economic Development handles one million inquiries. That is incredible.

This is also an opportunity to refer entrepreneurs to other departments of the Government of Canada or other local players such as the CLDs and CFDCs. These are our partners; we must work together to develop our regions. Who better than them can help make wise decisions and pursue projects?

The agency acts as a catalyst in promoting the economic development of the regions of Quebec. Through its 14 business offices, the agency is present and securely anchored in each of the regions of Quebec. This strong presence enables the Government of Canada to make a contribution to the development of SMEs in Quebec and the regions. I did say that the government makes a contribution in partnership with other stakeholders. We have to work together for the community and to develop our beautiful province of Quebec within a strong Canada.

In this context, the agency teams up with a broad network of development agents in each region of Quebec. By funding these organizations and facilitating their networking, the agency moves closer to citizens and the different regional realities, and offers local economic agents the opportunity of contributing to the development of their economy. For example, the agency works closely with the Alliance numériQC, Enviro-Access, and BioQuébec to promote innovation in enterprises.

The agency also works closely with World Trade Centre Montreal and a network of regional export-assistance organizations—we will recall the example I mentioned earlier—to contribute to the attainment of national objectives for development of international markets, so that Quebec can be present on both national and international markets. That is just what we want as Quebeckers: to be present. That is great.

By its actions, the agency promotes the implementation of development projects that would not occur without its assistance or that would be postponed and could possibly be abandoned, something that would deny the Quebec regions some obvious material benefits as far as prosperity and the improvement of regional quality of life is concerned. According to data compiled by the agency for the year 2003-2004, 73.9% of its clients indicated that they could not have implemented their projects without the agency's financial support. We can be proud of that. The agency committed to contribute more than $1.02 billion to finance the implementation of 2,116 projects in 2003-04.

If we add the amounts provided by other lenders to the Agency's contributions, the total value of these 2,116 projects will reach more than $3.9 billion in all Quebec regions for 2003-2004.

Moreover, as of March 31, 2004, these 2,116 projects had already contributed, directly or indirectly, to the creation, transformation and maintenance of more than 13,671 jobs throughout Quebec.

I can tell you that in my riding, the agency has brought hope to entrepreneurs.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

David Smith Liberal Pontiac, QC

This has contributed to a collective effort toward developing the beautiful Pontiac riding. We have numerous projects and we are working with the various levels of government, the private sector and Canada Economic Development.

I would add that the effects of the assistance provided by the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Quebec regions are lasting. For example, more than 39% of the businesses which received help between 1996 and 2000 recorded an increase in income. More that 39% of these businesses are making more money. This is excellent.

We also see long-term effects on the employment situation. More than half of the businesses, that is 57%, reported an increase in the number of employees after completion of the projects that had received aid from the agency. This means more jobs that are so badly needed in our regions.

We should continue to support our regions because they are a source of continuity.

A particularly eloquent example of the relevancy of the agency is that, for the last three years, customer satisfaction has steadily risen. In 2003-04, for instance, 94.5% of the agency's customers were satisfied with the overall quality of services.

The information being shared today illustrates the need for the agency and its benefits and shows that regions want to make a collective effort, in partnership with the governments of Canada and Quebec, the municipalities and all the public stakeholders.

In conclusion, the bill before us today confirms the role played by the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec. It provides the agency with the necessary tools to take up the current challenges in regional development, ensures continuity and prepares people for the 21st century.

We are moving straight towards the development of our regions and we have to support them. We should ensure that, in places like the beautiful riding of Pontiac, people have the opportunity, like all other Canadians, to live and work in their region and develop a pride in being Quebeckers and Canadians.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, a famous person once said: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” I am quite surprised to hear my colleague from Pontiac set the tone as he did. When he speaks of a beautiful Quebec, I agree with him. As far as a strong Canada is concerned, I recognize that Canada must be strong. I have no problem with that. But I do not agree with the way he explains things for us to recognize that Quebec can be happy within a strong Canada.

Since he says he is from Quebec and speaks for Quebec, I would like to hear him explain to Quebec taxpayers and particularly to citizens of his riding that we pay $2.4 billion a year too much for health care and that we never benefit from that money. How does he explain that? I did not calculate that myself. Those figures are well-known. How does he explain that $230 million a year in income tax returns Quebeckers would be entitled to is never paid to citizens but kept by the federal government, which saves money at the expense of Quebec because we have a good day care system.

How does he explain to his voters that more than $30 million a year is not paid to the unemployed in his riding alone? Can he not explain this since he is so happy about it? I will stop here, but I could give him another series of questions like these. If he does not have enough, I will bring him more later.

Canada wants to act for Quebec. The government wants our own good. But right now, it is acting more as if it wanted to own us for good. And we will not accept that.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

David Smith Liberal Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite is asking me how I can be proud of what is happening in Quebec. I was born in Maniwaki. I was born there. I am an anglophone. I went to an English school. My mother is francophone. I am Aboriginal and proud of it. I am a Quebecker who lives in Canada, and I am proud of it.

Am I proud of the realities of my region, where unemployment is higher that average? The answer is no. I am certainly not proud of that. But did I give up? Did I decide to do nothing, to say it is hopeless and to cry over what could have been? Absolutely not. Before June 28, I decided to run in the last election in order to come here and represent the people of the riding of Pontiac, the people of my region. I wanted to come here and work with the Government of Quebec and the 43 municipalities of my riding, with the strengths and weaknesses of that region, to find ways to bring economic development home.

I mentioned the business in Déléage that imports wood from Peru. If we were sitting down at a table and discussing this, I am convinced that the majority of us would say that it does not make sense, that it cannot be done. The Polish entrepreneur, who lives in Maniwaki and whose name is Stosik, who is a native of that municipality, who, like me, believes in his region, opened a sawmill in Peru to process wood, import it to Canada, send it by ship and other means of transportation to Maniwaki-Déléage, make mouldings and doors out of it and then sell these products on the market.

I am asked if this is a source of pride. It is indeed. That entrepreneur got some help. From who? From Canada Economic Development Is our region of Pontiac perfect? No, it is not perfect. Is there room for improvement? Yes, there is room for improvement. How are we going to achieve these objectives? By working together. With who? With LDBs, CFCDs, RCMs, mayors, municipalities and the Quebec government. The idea is that everyone must share the same objective, which is to have a beautiful region that is economically sound and strong.

As for employment insurance, it is something temporary. It is something that we must try to eliminate over time. Will it be possible to completely eliminate employment insurance? I do not think so. Is there room for improvement? The answer is yes. I have 18 files with Canada Economic Development on which I am working in cooperation with stakeholders in my riding. In our region, we believe in development. We need the help of all levels of government. We must work together. We have differences of opinion. That is fine. It is healthy. This is entrepreneurship. The idea is to talk to each other to find regional solutions for our people, so that we can put them to work, because they are proud. There is pride in being a Quebecker, a resident of Maniwaki and a member of Parliament representing these people here in the House.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of clarification respecting the order adopted earlier this day concerning the sequence of events for this evening. It is agreed that the adjournment proceedings must be completed before the House goes into committee of the whole.

Act to establish the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of QuebecGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, I found it quite startling to hear the member for Pontiac express pride that Peruvian lumber was being exported to the industry in his area.

Before I was an MP, I was a union representative in the forestry industry. I find it aberrant to hear someone from Quebec expressing pride about having Peruvian wood here, when it takes jobs away from the Quebec forestry industry.

I can also tell hon. members that 2,000 to 3,000 jobs have been lost because of the softwood lumber crisis. We are not changing the direction of the debate. He started it and we are continuing in the same vein.

Clearly and simply, the Government of Canada has also helped regional development. Regional, not Canadian. When the region is involved, it goes through Quebec. The minister has just spoken about federal MPs coming into ridings to hand out money. Yes, we see them coming ostentatiously, handing out money, wanting to make nice, wanting to get us on side with them, putting on a good show.

But that is not what a good show is all about. If they want to show us their good side, let them hand the money over to Quebec. I think we are grown up enough to be able to take that money and invest it in companies that will be the pride of Quebec, without having Canada as an intermediary. We do not need that. Let them give us the money and we will look after it.

I do not want to add to what my colleague, the member for Brome—Missisquoi, has said about the single taxpayer. I think that single taxpayer pays too much. If there is a surplus of $9 billion, it is because we have paid too much. So let them give us our money back. That is what the fiscal imbalance is all about. We are capable of economic development, and that development will be sustainable development. We will not go to Peru to get wood, we will get it in Quebec. Let them settle the softwood lumber crisis as well and there will be more jobs, I believe.