House of Commons Hansard #30 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

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10:45 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Chair, I am pleased. I appreciate the answer of the minister. I will look forward to reports on this issue. I would be happy to have a briefing from the minister on the charter implications involved in this issue.

I would like to ask about an issue that is important to women. There was a study out very recently showing a direct relationship between health problems, both physical and mental, and women who are juggling work and family responsibilities, particularly those women who are in the sandwich generation, still looking after kids at home and elderly parents or people with disabilities at home.

It really begs the question about a national home care program, something that was on the table when I first was elected in 1997. In fact, at that point following the 1997 election, the minister's predecessor, Mr. Rock, held a national conference to talk about this.

It seemed to hold great promise, but I think the whole idea has been nitpicked away. I am not sure if a national home care program is on the agenda anymore. I am wondering if there is a way we could put it back on the agenda.

Also, what else is there that the minister might tell us in terms of trying to deal with the health problems facing women as a result of these demands?

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10:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Hon. Mr. Chair--and I keep saying hon. Mr. Chair because that is what I used to say when I was in the provincial legislature, and you are honourable nonetheless, Mr. Chair--home care is on the national agenda. There is absolutely no question about it. That is why in fact in the most recent accord we made some progress in coming to a consensus about what we should have at least in three different areas: in the end of life care we should have by 2006 in place with some palliative specific drugs available to people; post-acute care, two-week period at least, by 2006; and mental issues, mental health in terms of a two-week period. That is a beginning.

I must admit that it is not as large a beginning as I would have liked it to be, but the difficulty is that we have to arrive at a consensus with provinces across the country.

Some money for home care and catastrophic coverage was included in the 2003 accord. More money has now been included in the current accord for home care and catastrophic coverage. I believe that has to happen, but it has to happen in working with the provinces and the territories. It is very important that we do that. When we set those kinds of standards that we have set in the current accord, then we are working toward home care that is nationally available in a similar fashion across the country. It may be slow, but we will get there.

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10:50 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

I look forward to seeing developments that take us on a path to a national home care plan in this country, Mr. Chair.

I want to ask one more set of questions around drug safety. It relates to the question my colleague, our health critic, asked about Depo-Provera.

One of the other developments that happened when the minister's predecessor Allan Rock became minister in 1997 was the closure of the drug safety lab in the department. That was an important bureau for testing for problems with drugs on the market in terms of interactions with other drugs or interactions with food or natural health products.

When we lost that, we lost an important mechanism for generally ensuring that drugs on the market were safe beyond a reasonable doubt and that the “do no harm” principle was followed. The example of Depo-Provera shows that there are slippages, that in fact rather than a tough, proactive model we have a risk management model which means that we lose at certain times.

Are there any plans on the minister's part to put in place a mechanism that will allow for the government and his department to be proactively involved in the ensuring that drugs are safe beyond a reasonable doubt?

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10:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I think the member raises a very important question. I will not continue to say that I am new here, but I am relatively new and I have not looked at that issue. The member raises a very important issue. I am prepared to take a look at it and see how far we can go.

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10:50 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Chair, there is one more question that my colleague from Churchill and I have been talking about. It again has to do with prevention and health promotion and relates to the area of tobacco. It is our understanding that there were some cuts to the tobacco education program to the tune of $70,000.

I am wondering if that is the case. If so, why were those cuts made and what other programs are taking the place of this important initiative in terms of preventing people from getting addicted to tobacco products?

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10:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, the information that I have been just given by the officials is that the tobacco funding is in fact going up, but if there is a specific example of $70,000 being cut from a specific project, I would be happy to hear from my colleagues across the aisle and take a look at it.

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10:50 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Chair, I would like to raise one more question that my colleague from Elmwood--Transcona raised. It is an issue in which I have been involved for a long time, and that is the situation vis-à-vis the Virginia Fontaine Centre. I know he made a commitment tonight to pursue the matter once the court process is completed and that he did not rule out a public inquiry.

I would suggest to the minister that the government look at the idea of a public inquiry as soon as possible from the point of view of not looking at guilt or innocence, vis-à-vis the charges, but looking at how in the world we could see millions of dollars disappear out from under the government, with a volcano basically erupting in the department, and the deputy minister and the minister not knowing about it.

I think the idea of a public inquiry is to find out what checks and balances were not being followed, what kind of surveillance of departmental spending was inadequately being pursued to end up with the situation of millions of dollars being signed off and then frittered away in terms of trips, condominiums, hockey tickets, cars and cruises.

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10:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, this, obviously, is a very serious issue and criminal proceedings are underway and civil litigation is also underway as I understand it. I did say that I would be happy to take a look at the situation once all those issues have gone by and determine whether we can do more without an inquiry.

I will look at the issue of an inquiry because I do not believe one should rule out anything, but the hon. member should know that Health Canada has made some fundamental changes and by the time the criminal proceedings and civil proceedings come to a conclusion we may have learned more. We may not need an inquiry to tell us what we already know but I would be happy to keep an mind open on the issue.

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10:55 p.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources

Mr. Chair, I want to make some opening remarks on health care in the north and our appreciation for our treatment. If I have any time left at the end I will ask some questions.

First I want to thank the Minister of Health for the tremendous job he has done since he has come in. Almost the first day I got here I approached him with a problem and he responded very openly and agreed to work on the problem right away. I am delighted, as a constituency MP, to have that kind of treatment.

I would also like to congratulate the Minister of State for Public Health who has done an equally great job. She came to my riding, had a long consultation with all the people and all the stakeholders and then, at the end of a long day, she had a long meeting with the nurses who are so important to our health care system.

I also want to thank the Prime Minister and the Government of Canada for the tremendous emphasis they put on the north recently. We have had a complete northern strategy that included $90 million for economic development programs, sustainability proposals, a huge northern environmental cleanup, northern sovereignty and, of course, northern health care. I thank the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance for understanding the uniqueness of the health care problems in the north and the extra costs those add.

For instance, if people in a big city have a serious accident they can go in their family car or in an ambulance a few blocks or a kilometre to a hospital at relatively low cost. In the northern territories it costs $5,000, $10,000 or $20,000 just to get to the hospital through Medivac. We have a very small tax base and obviously we cannot cover all that. We have a very harsh northern climate and it increases the cost of everything, transportation of materials, et cetera.

Another issue is the lack of guaranteed access to specialists and hospitals. Our hospitals, of course, do not tend to all the major surgeries. There is one major hospital in each of the territories. We also do not have the numbers to warrant having all the specialists there permanently. A problem that is a challenge for the future is how to have guaranteed access to those systems in various provinces so that our doctors could be guaranteed they will get their patients in at the time they need?

The last challenge I want to mention right now is the fact that there is only one hospital in each of the territories. We should think back to the SARS crisis. When there was a problem with one hospital in Toronto it was closed and the patients went to another hospital. In the north there is only one hospital in each of the territories. The others are hundreds, if not thousands, of kilometres away, so if we close a hospital for a similar infectious disease, people would die. There is no other place for them to go, not for SARS, but for all the other accidents and life-threatening conditions that people might have.

My thanks go out for the understanding of that and the tremendous amount of transfers the north has had for health care in recent years. In the transfer payment for the territorial budgets were very significant moneys for health. On top of that, as we know, we came to that historic agreement in 2003 that added $20 million to the territories. I was very excited about the money for prevention and health promotion because I think everyone in the House would agree that if we can prevent disease and promote health, it certainly reduces the costs in the long run.

Over and above those funds, we also have the first nations and Inuit programs. The figures I will be using are as of March 31, 2004. We have the Canadian prenatal nutrition program, $26,000; home and community care, more than $2,159,000; the environmental health program, $20,000; and the tobacco control strategy, over $117,000.

I appreciate that all the parties support reduction of tobacco and the minister's work in that area. In fact I talked to both ministers only yesterday about how we might reduce investment in the tobacco industry.

The next figures are: the aboriginal diabetes strategy, $155,000; the national native alcohol and drug addictions program, $18,000; the fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, $62,000; the AIDS office, $105,000; health services program management, $45,000; consultation Indian and Inuit, $16,000; health careers, $47,000.

I want to talk about health careers for a moment. We need to get more aboriginal people into health careers. I support the Canadian Medical Association's effort in partnering with the government in that goal.

The next figures are: the health programs transfer, $894,000; integrated community services, $1,656,000. Then we go on to the Canada Health Agency and the funds it provides to the north: community action program for children, $760,000; the Canada prenatal nutrition program, $632,000. That is a tremendous program. When I was president of the Skookum Jim First Nation Friendship Centre it was a wonderful program to reduce illness in babies.

The aboriginal head start program was given $529,000. I would like to tell the minister that is a tremendous program. It is absolutely remarkable how popular and successful it is. I implore the minister, any way he can in future budgets, to try to find more money for that program, whether it comes from human resources development, early childhood learning or wherever. It is very successful and we would like to expand it. Communities like Carmacks, Ross River and Pelly Crossing would like to expand it. The ones we have already are successful but we need funds for new centres.

We have more money for the AIDS program ACAP, $125,000; the population health fund, $75,000; diabetes, $104,000; FASD, another $65,000; hepatitis C, $70,000.

In Yukon the 10 self-governing first nations have assumed responsibility for all eligible community based first nations and Inuit health programming. The other four first nations communities have entered into integrated agreements with Health Canada. Health Canada also supports the work of the health and social development department, which is part of the Council of Yukon First Nations, to promote health promotion and illness prevention in first nations.

Those were not all the funds provided because, as everyone will remember, after the first ministers' conference from September 13 to 15 the Prime Minister, the finance minister and the health minister provided $41.3 billion over the next 10 years. My riding's portion of that was another $3 million for the Canadian health transfer, $34 million for the Canada health transfer base and $0.5 million for medical equipment. That is more than $37 million. On top of that there will be Yukon's share of the wait times reduction fund because that has not been calculated yet. Of course, the other two territories, if the people from the Northwest Territories and Nunavut are listening, we have been treated equally generously.

However, that is not all because in this new deal there is money for aboriginal people, which I certainly appreciate as being about 23% of my population. If all the programs I mentioned so far cannot cover it, then starting next year for the next five years there is $200 million for the aboriginal health transition fund and $100 million for the aboriginal health human resources initiative. Of course, those are very important human resources in health care. I think everyone agrees with that.

I certainly agree with the Canadian Medical Association that we have to increase residency spaces not only for our new doctors but so they can have better choices, so that aboriginal doctors can come through the system and overseas doctors will have spaces.

Finally, for aboriginal people there will be $400 million over the next five years for health promotion and disease prevention, which I talked about earlier.

However that is not all. Out of the new deal from last September, over and above the $37 million my riding received, as all ridings in Canada will get a share, the Prime Minister, finance minister and health minister recognized all the things I said at the beginning of my speech of the extra costs in the north. For that they provided $150 million over five years for the territories, $65 million for the territorial health access fund, $10 million for the federal-territorial working group and $75 million for medical transportation. Those funds can be used for things like recruitment and retention, which are so important in the north, and for advanced technology, such as Telehealth, where I hope we can be leaders in the world. We have already saved lives with equipment that has been provided with some of the funds I have talked about.

Of course everything is not perfect so I have some questions and challenges. First, I would like to ask a question that a number of my constituents have asked me. What is the minister doing about the labelling of genetically modified foods?

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I understand the current process is that Health Canada looks at any genetically modified foods that come on the market and if there are any risks associated with them, then there is obviously special labelling.

Of course, these are very important safety issues. I do not believe we have moved to a mandatory labelling regime, which is an issue some people are raising, but the current regime has been satisfactory and I believe we should continue to work within it.

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Chair, a number of my constituents feel very strongly about labelling genetically modified foods.

I mentioned to the minister that we have been having some problems with the approval of certain dental procedures through the uninsured health benefits program. These problems on occasion mean that first nations people either had to pay in advance for procedures or make a lengthy trip home and back to the dentist again.

I understand this problem is being worked on, but I would like assurances from the minister that it is being dealt with.

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I understand that there is a working group made up of representatives of the Government of Yukon, the Council of Yukon First Nations and the dental association. We want to make sure that this problem is dealt with so that no one goes without dental service in that part of our country.

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Chair, that would be very much appreciated. It has been a serious issue for some time.

Addictions are a very serious health issue in the north. Could the minister mention some of the steps that the department is taking to help us? These accentuate the health care costs dramatically. If that could be prevented through some of the prevention and promotion funds from the 2003 agreement or from the aboriginal prevention and promotion funds in this agreement, that would be very helpful.

I would like to know what we are doing about addictions in the north.

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, the member probably knows about all of the existing programs. There is a national native alcohol and drug abuse program. There is a national youth solvent abuse program. Then there is a first nations and Inuit component of Canada's drug strategy. There is also $20 million in the estimates for FAE and FAS prevention that is currently being dealt with.

There is $400 million out of the $700 million that is going to go for promotion and prevention on several aspects of aboriginal health. In addition to that there are of course the national programs that I talked about.

This is a very serious issue and we are taking it very seriously.

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11:05 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, I am sharing my time with the member for Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam.

My question for the Minister of Health is with regard to smallpox vaccine stocks. The health committee was advised by Health Canada officials on October 21, 2003 that Canada would have 35 million doses stockpiled by March 31, 2004. Several weeks ago our new chief public health officer told the committee that we only have 6.5 million doses on hand.

What is the minister doing to ensure this gap is closed?

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I believe that the hon. member is talking about a possible plan to purchase a new generation of vaccine, a second generation of vaccine.

After looking at the second generation of vaccine a decision was made to stick with the existing and time tested first generation vaccine, of which we have over six million doses available which I understand can be diluted perhaps even 10 times to deal with the issue.

I am told by our public health officer, Dr. David Butler-Jones, that the six million vaccines that we have are currently available. Some of them were manufactured back in the 1970s.

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11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, why are we not using second generation smallpox vaccine in this country? It has been recommended by the World Health Organization. Why are we not using it here?

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, off the top of my head I do not remember the number of years but I am told that the second generation vaccine is only good for a very short time. It has a very short shelf life and is very expensive. It would be over $30 million to $40 million.

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11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, why is the smallpox vaccine used by the Department of National Defence different from what we have on stock for Canadians?

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I am unable to answer that question because I do not know what kind of vaccine DND has purchased. I would be happy to learn that and answer that question.

The reason we stuck with the time tested vaccine, a first generation vaccine, is it was tested in an actual outbreak. Also it is available to us. It can remain useful for a long, long time. It can also be diluted.

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11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, is it true that our nation's smallpox vaccine still requires 18 months of clinical trials?

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, that is true. We are going to be doing clinical trials on it. It is very important that we do that. However, the second generation vaccine is not even licensed to be used at this time.

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11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, are clinical trials on Canadian subjects planned using vaccine from the stockpile?

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC

Mr. Chair, I think those are issues that Dr. David Butler-Jones would be able to address. I suggest that we put those questions to him through the committee, or if the hon. member wishes, I would be happy to ask that question of him and forward the answer.

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11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Chair, will these trials be publicly funded and if so, how much money will be spent on these trials?