Debates of Nov. 23rd, 2004

Supply

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to discuss with the minister the whole issue of drug costs. I believe that the minister is aware of the fact that, at present, the most inflationary item in the health system is the cost of drugs.

His predecessor struck a federal-provincial-territorial committee to look at the reasons for the high cost of drugs. It was agreed that there are three main reasons. First, new drugs apparently account for 30% of the increase. Naturally, the aging population was also a reason. This is a very important factor. And, finally, new therapies are more expensive.

The Minister of Health must show concern for this issue. It is up to the provinces to decide which drugs will be reimbursed, but the federal government is responsible for drug certification. In that sense, I will have the opportunity to put forward a balanced bill. Balance is in my nature; excess is not for me. My private member's bill will be balanced.

I would like to ask the minister if he has considered the issue of drug costs. Does he think that the medicine prices review board should also look at the activities of generic companies? Did he give any thought to the whole issue of the link regulations? Are our legislative tools balanced?

I will be very happy to discuss these issues with him when I introduce my bill.

[The Chair]

Before the minister responds, after checking the order that was passed earlier this day, each party may allocate time for its members within that 15 minute allotment. I think I was wrong to allocate a question to the opposition.

I will allow the minister to answer, if he would like, and then we will go to the Liberals to finish their 15 minutes. The member for Mississauga South was on his feet.

It was my mistake but we will continue if the minister would like to answer.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, this is obviously an important issue in light of the fact that when the first ministers gathered in September they actually ordered the ministers of health to put together a national pharmaceutical strategy. Part of that would be bulk purchasing, speedier drug reviews, common drug reviews and perhaps a common formulary. Those issues are very important for Canada and Canadians.

Yes, I have looked at the role of the Patented Medicine Prices Review Board and I believe that the prices for generics in Canada are relatively higher than other places. I have not been able to tackle that issue but I have been thinking about it. I think it is an important issue for our consideration. I will be considering it after I am out of the estimates and in the next few weeks.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the minister for his frankness and openness, which I think has characterized his ministership right from the outset. That is to the credit of the minister.

I want to ask the minister very briefly about the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. It is a body that was established to replace the Medical Research Council, which is a research granting authority. Its budget has increased substantively over recent years and some very important research is being funded.

However one of the reasons that the CIHR was created to replace the Medical Research Council was that it was felt that the Medical Research Council had become too involved in some of its own pet projects and that new and emerging research was not receiving the funding that it required.

The minister may want to comment on the fact that the CIHR is not subject to a parliamentary review unlike other agencies. I wonder if the minister would consider, given his openmindedness, making the CIHR subject to possibly a three year parliamentary review.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, first let me say that I have been absolutely impressed with the performance of CIHR. I have actually attended several functions where researchers, scholars, scientists who are doing research with funds provided by CIHR and others have met and discussed issues. I was also present in Vancouver a couple of weeks ago where I announced $187 million in research funds for various projects right across the country. I believe CIHR is doing a very good job.

In terms of accountability, the CIHR is accountable to the minister and the minister is accountable to the House. However if members believe there is a better way of seeking that accountability directly, I am prepared to take a look at that.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister about the new public health officer, which is a great addition to the whole health care system. Could he or someone else elaborate on the benefits of that?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as a result of our experiences in the SARS situation and as a result of the Naylor report, we have learned some lessons as a country and as a government and put together the Public Health Agency of Canada.

We now have our Dr. Canada, the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada, Dr. David Butler-Jones, who has very impressive credentials and is well-respected for the work that he has done. I believe that he actually plays the role of coordinating with public officers across the country very well, whether it is on the issue of the flu vaccine or any other issues. He also keeps in touch with places like the WHO, the Centres for Disease Control in the U.S. and his counterparts in the rest of the world. I think Canada is taking a leadership role in this. That was very clear from the fact that I was in New York with him announcing our global health public intelligence network, stage 2, with Ted Turner and Senator Sam Nunn. That is the result of the work done by our public health agency.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have several questions for the minister. I have received a number of e-mails from fellow citizens indicating their concerns about the national diabetes strategy. From 1994 to 2005, the government committed some $200 million to this, and there are some indications that it may not be renewed in 2005. Can the minister provide some reassurance to people with diabetes that the strategy will be renewed after 2005? That is my first question.

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, under the leadership of Dr. David Butler-Jones and as a government, we are looking at the issue of separate strategies for chronic diseases. We want to ensure we follow the advice of the first ministers, as represented, I believe, in the FM accord of September this year, which says that we should be looking at an integrated and coordinated approach to chronic diseases in the country. I believe that if we do that, the issue of diabetes would be looked at. However if we are not able to put together a strategy, I would be concerned if the funding is not there on an ongoing basis for the diabetes strategy.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, a few years ago, the federal government announced $480 million over five years for the federal anti-smoking campaign. The amount of $210 million has been earmarked for national prevention campaigns.

We have been told that this $210 million had been administered by the PMO, because of the sponsorship program.

Can the Minister of Health tell us whether the $210 million for national smoking prevention campaigns has or has not been used by the Department of Health? Can he deny that the PMO has picked up that money for use in the national sponsorship program?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I understand that over the last three years the government has spent over $90 million in terms of the campaigns that the hon. member is talking about.

I also understand that as a result of some of the changes that were required to meet the emerging and changing needs, the money for advertising was pulled into the central agencies.

However I can also tell the hon. member that we have been working very hard with the central agencies and we will be getting some of that money back on a regular basis to carry on and to continue the advertising campaigns and the like.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have two short questions on tobacco.

First, can the minister tell us when his government intends to ratify the convention of the World Health Organization on tobacco control?

Second, what is his government's position on the labelling for light products that give false information to consumers? Minister Allan Rock had pledged to prohibit advertising for light cigarettes. Does the government intend to act on this commitment?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, with respect to the framework convention on tobacco control, we are very close to ratifying that. I am more anxious than most to make sure it is ratified. Canada is one of the first 40 countries to do so, perhaps one of the first G-8 countries to do so. That is on its way to happening and hopefully it can be done soon.

The other issue the hon. member raised was with respect to light and mild. As the member knows, light and mild is currently before the courts in the class action suit that one of the members referred to earlier. In that context, I do want to make sure that we proceed in terms of attempting to ban light and mild descriptors. Whether or not we can successfully do that without impacting the pending action before the courts one way or another remains to be seen. I say that cautiously because obviously one does not want to negatively influence the outcome of the court action in any way by taking action now which perhaps could have been done earlier.

I am anxious to proceed with the banning of light and mild if I can do it without--

[The Chair]

The hon. member for Hochelaga.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, the federal government set up a program called the community actionpProgram for children, or CAPC. This program is useful to children in our communities. However, there has been no budget increase over the past number of years. This means that stakeholders are limited in their ability to act, because budgets are stagnating. Again, I am referring to the CAPC, the community action program for children.

Can the minister tell us whether or not he intends to increase the federal contribution to organizations that do so much good in our communities, particularly in my riding of Hochelaga, where there are many such community groups?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I understand that the budget for that program is currently about $80 million a year. I cannot access the information right away but I would be happy to provide that information to the hon. member. I understand it is a useful program. We can have a dialogue on it. If there are any issues, the member can raise them with me.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, as regards the issue of virtual drug stores, I know that the minister is considering a few options. Of course, this is a reality that has a major impact in Manitoba. I am told that there are 80 such drug stores in operation in Canada, including more than 50 in Manitoba. Quebec is not affected by this phenomenon.

Can the minister give us an outline of the options that he is contemplating? Also, does he not believe that the federal government has a duty to take action regarding this issue?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I believe it is the responsibility of the federal government as the regulator of a price regime in the country for prescription drugs and the approver of drugs. It is our role to make sure that we have the safety and supply of drugs for Canadians at the core of our program and our actions.

There are many options one can look at. The only option that I think at this time is viable and one which I am looking at is the option as I said earlier before the committee of looking at amending the definition of the term “practitioner” to see if we could prevent or deter members of the medical profession from providing prescriptions to people who are not residents of Canada and who are not visitors in Canada.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, in 2001, Justice Sharlow rendered a decision concerning the minister's power to oppose placing a drug on the patent register.

Previously, the Minister of Health had the power to establish the relevance between a patent and the product. Unfortunately, the federal court did not recognize that the minister had this power. Is he concerned by the fact that he is now deprived of this power? Also, would he agree to support an excellent bill that would make it possible to rectify this situation?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I am sure the Department of Justice would tell me what powers I do have and do not have. I would be happy to have a conversation with the hon. member on that issue as well. I am not aware of the case the hon. member is talking about. I will become aware of it very quickly because I intend to look at it.

In the business that we are in, as governments and as parliamentarians, we do have to worry about the charter and the Constitution of the country. However, sometimes we need to test those boundaries for the right cause and for the good cause, and I am always prepared to do that.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Standing Committee on Health, one of the best committees here, tabled a report last year asking the government to increase the budgets of the Canadian AIDS Strategy, to raise them to $100 million and to do so quickly. I am very disappointed that the government did not act on this issue, since we are not in a situation where the AIDS epidemic is under control.

Could the minister tell us what he intends to do to follow up on the recommendations that the Standing Committee on Health made to him on May 13 of last year, on my birthday?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I understand, and I remember reading about this, that my predecessor actually announced some time ago that the funding would be increased from $41 million to about $83 million or $84 million. It would be ramped up to double over five years. I understand that that money is there. We are seeking approval to begin the increase incrementally over the next five years.

I was actually at the AIDS walk in Vancouver where I talked about this money. I want to make sure that we get it out the door and into the communities at the earliest possible time. I recognize that AIDS is a very serious issue.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, all premiers, no matter what their allegiance, formed a coalition to ask the federal government to contribute 25% to the costs of the system.

Can the Minister of Health tell us now what is the percentage of the federal government's contribution to the health system in Canada?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, the hon. member asked the same question in the committee. I told him that once I have the numbers I will be bringing those forward and tabling them for the benefit of all. Several numbers are being thrown about. It depends on how one calculates those numbers. I want to be able to bring the numbers that I can back up with facts, with reality.

I also just want to say that Commissioner Romanow agreed that in the accord, in the money that has been provided for health care across the country, the Romanow gap has been closed. This means that according to his calculations, there is adequate money for health care needs across the country for at least a little while.

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga, QC]

Mr. Chair, earlier I asked the minister a question about the Canadian diabetes strategy. I could have asked him the same question about the prostate cancer strategy.

Am I right in understanding that senior officials at Health Canada are asking the minister to no longer reserve funds for particular illnesses, and that it would be a mistake not to reserve funds specifically for diabetes or prostate cancer?

Can the minister assure us that there will still be funding set aside for certain, very carefully identified pathologies?