Debates of Nov. 25th, 2004

Canada Labour Code

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The hon. member for Saskatoon--Humboldt.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate at least what the government has been attempting to do, and something is better than nothing.

I heard the government saying again that there is still some defence of education or art if it is an undue risk. I am not a lawyer, but I have talked to lawyers in our caucus, one of whom was a former attorney general in the province of Manitoba. I have been told that if defence lawyers get a bit of room, they will go right through it. We should give them no room whatsoever.

All child pornography has undue risk to it. There should be absolutely no excuse for education or art. That is the point we are trying to get across. Why does the government not get it? There is nothing educational about child pornography. There is nothing artistic about child pornography. The definitions should be narrowed to such an extent that those useless categories should be eliminated.

Will the government see the light on this issue?

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we seek to protect the rights of children and to protect the rights and freedoms enshrined in the charter. It is not a question of doing one or the other. It is a question of protecting all children against the risk of harm through child pornography and in a manner that will withstand charter scrutiny.

This is particularly relevant for the hon. member. What he refers to as a loophole, we regard as being principled leadership. If we do anything less than this in a manner of prohibiting pornography, we fail our children. If the child pornography laws do not comport with the charter, are struck down, and we have no child pornography laws, we also fail our children.

I call on all hon. members to support Bill C-2 and thereby lend the support both to the protection of our children and to the protection of our charter, which will allow for those child pornography laws to be sustained and protect our children.

Royal Canadian Mounted Police

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have a very sad situation in the sense that we have a number of RCMP widows who have faced a very difficult situation.

The circumstances are as follows. When their husbands have died in the line of duty, these women have been approached by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and officials with the RCMP have told them that they must have full regimental funerals for their husbands. They are not told, however, that they will have to pay the costs of those funerals.

Some of these RCMP widows, who have already sacrificed loved ones, are then assessed bills, one of them for over $20,000. It was asked for out of the widow's own pocket after the death of her husband. She was never told that she would be accountable for that bill. She was told that it had to be a full regimental funeral. She is not just one widow. There are three cases. There is also a fourth that I will talk about a little bit.

Today I want to ask the government, at what stage is it at in terms of changing its policy? The answer we received from the Deputy Prime Minister was that it was a policy of the RCMP. The RCMP, of course, is a tool and a branch of the federal government. I would like to have a little more specificity from it this evening.

There is a recent press release that was put out by Kathy Maurice, Margaret Galloway and Lesley Massey. They are the three widows in question. The press release states:

In our opinion the reimbursement amount as set out in this policy does not even begin to accurately reflect the actual costs associated with these funerals.

It is unfair that the Mounties insisted on a full regimental ceremony without even mentioning that these women would have to pay. When can we expect the review of the three family cases to be completed? We know it took six years to properly compensate the victims of hepatitis C, and we wonder how long it will take the government to compensate these widows.

There is a fourth situation that has just recently arisen. It is incredibly important that the government be timely about these things because Constable Glen Evely of the RCMP in Vernon, B.C., was killed in the line of duty just last Saturday. I asked questions on this matter of the Deputy Prime Minister last week. He was given a full regimental funeral, as every officer who dies in the line of duty deserves, but at what price?

Will Constable Evely's widow be stuck with these same costs, these huge bills, that these three other widows have been stuck with? We do not want to see the type of heartless attitude that was shown to Kathy Maurice, Margaret Galloway or Lesley Massey reflected onto this new situation.

RCMP Commissioner Guiliano Zaccardelli flew to all of these funerals, every single one. We would like to know, how much money did it cost him to fly to these funerals? Certainly, if the RCMP and the government, therefore, can see fit to pay to fly the commissioner, why not look after the bills--

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government, the RCMP and indeed all Canadian law enforcement officials recognize the sacrifices made by police officers who put their lives on the line every day.

I would like to take this opportunity to recognize RCMP Auxiliary Constable Glen Evely, from Vernon, British Columbia, who recently died on duty. It is always extremely tragic when any police officer dies while contributing to public safety.

The RCMP has great respect and compassion for its members who died while carrying out their duties and for their families.

You are of course aware that the RCMP has undertaken a review of the funeral costs of the three members who died while on duty, namely Superintendent Dennis Massey, Corporal Jim Galloway, and officer Ghislain Maurice.

I can assure you that in the course of its review, the RCMP is in constant communication with the three families.

The RCMP's review will also identify if other families of fallen members have incurred costs associated with regimental funerals.

The RCMP has consistently adhered to its policies for funeral benefits over the years. Relevant policy and protocol are now being examined and the RCMP is committed to modernizing parts of the policy regarding funeral and burial benefits and to taking any corrective action deemed necessary based on these findings.

The guidelines for funeral and burial benefits must balance respect for those who have given their lives in service to Canada with the reality that such reimbursements come at public expense.

I can tell members that immediate and ongoing support is provided to the family of any member who dies on duty. This support encompasses personal assistance while funeral and burial arrangements are being planned, as well as advice and guidance regarding the benefits available to survivors. Families of fallen members are also advised that there may be funds available through other sources within the RCMP to assist them.

All decisions regarding the funeral arrangements of a fallen member of the RCMP rest with the family. In every case, the family's preferences regarding funeral arrangements are respected.

Regimental funerals are a longstanding tradition which gives communities an opportunity to recognize and honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

Giving the community and, in reality all Canadians, an opportunity to express their compassion and their respect can increase funeral costs.

In the spring of 2004, the RCMP requested that the Treasury Board review RCMP funeral and burial benefits for their members to revise and modernize the policy. This review is ongoing in consultation and partnership with the Department of National Defence and Treasury Board.

The Commissioner of the RCMP has made a commitment to the families that the review will be done expeditiously and that dialogue with the families will continue until their concerns are addressed.

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I heard the member across the way say that he recognized the sacrifices and that there is support provided to these families, yet one of these women is stuck with a $20,800 bill after having lost her husband. I do not think that a bill of $20,800 equates to support or a recognition of the sacrifice that she has made. I do not think that is a fair deal; she was not informed of that.

These women are the equivalent, in my mind, of Silver Cross mothers. They have given a great deal to their country.

Could the member across the way imagine if the Government of Canada had stuck Margaret Trudeau with a substantial bill in the tens of thousands of dollars for the death of her husband, Prime Minister Trudeau? The government would have never dreamed of it, nor should it dream of it in the circumstance of these RCMP widows.

I do not think it is just that a $20,000 bill is levelled on any of these widows. We have one that I am glad the member recognizes in that a situation has just occurred this weekend, and I would like him to report to this House that the government will do its level--

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, certainly all of the widows cited where these unfortunate incidents have occurred are part of the review. As I said previously, the arrangements for funerals and regimental funerals and the policy thereof within the RCMP is of long standing. The family requests for the funeral arrangements are always respected.

As I said before, a review of the funeral costs for the four families in question is ongoing. The RCMP is consulting with the families to review each of these situations and the RCMP will take any corrective action deemed necessary as a result of that review.

There may be a need to modernize parts of the policy regarding funeral and burial benefits for members of the RCMP. The guidelines for funeral benefits are intended to balance respect for those who have given their lives in service to Canada with the reality that such reimbursements come at public expense.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 18:53 p.m.)