House of Commons Hansard #12 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberal.

Topics

Resumption of Debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

5:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Resumption of Debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

5:50 p.m.

The Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it.

Resumption of Debate on Address in ReplySpeech from the Throne

5:50 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed from February 16 consideration of the motion that Bill C-312, An Act to provide for the settlement of labour disputes affecting west coast ports by final offer arbitration, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Final Offer Arbitration in Respect of West Coast Ports Operations ActPrivate Members' Business

5:50 p.m.

The Speaker

Pursuant to order made earlier today, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-312.

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Final Offer Arbitration in Respect of West Coast Ports Operations ActPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

The Speaker

I declare the motion lost.

Final Offer Arbitration in Respect of West Coast Ports Operations ActPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet informed me in writing that he would be unable to introduce his motion during the hour provided for private members' business on Wednesday, February 18, 2004. Since it was not possible to arrange an exchange of positions in the order of precedence, I am directing the clerk to drop that item of business to the bottom of the order of precedence.

Private members' hour will thus be cancelled and the House will continue with the business before it.

It being 6:04 p.m. the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's Order Paper.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada should develop materials to facilitate youth voting initiatives and make these available to community groups and schools in order to enable young people to learn more about the Canadian electoral system, and to cast their votes at special boxes in polling stations during electoral events and to make public the vote totals, and that the Chief Electoral Officer provide a report on the activities in this regard annually to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Motion No. 398 on youth voting and I am pleased that it is seconded by the member for Northumberland.

The motion would direct Elections Canada to further develop its efforts to promote the participation of young Canadians in our electoral process and that Elections Canada work proactively with groups like Kids Voting Canada, scouts and guides, teachers, service clubs and the like to do this.

I believe that a friendly amendment to my motion will be presented by a colleague later in the debate. I am very open to this because I look forward to all-party support for the motion.

I would also seek unanimous consent to table a list of references, websites, books and so on, on this topic of youth voting. The list has been presented to colleagues in all the other parties who are participating. They have agreed to it and have already added some items.

Mr. Speaker, my request is that the table would take this list of references so that the record of the debate would be more useful to young people and they could find websites dealing with this topic.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:05 p.m.

The Speaker

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to table the document?

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, there has been a decline in participation in elections in Canada and in all developed nations. Almost all of that decline can be explained by a very low turnout of under 30-year-old voters.

The book, Anatomy of a liberal victory by André Blais, which is listed in the reference list that we have just tabled and which was published by Broadview Press in Peterborough in 2002, analyses this decline in participation for Canada.

Young people are not avoiding the polls because they are more cynical about politics. In fact, they are less cynical than other age groups, so we would expect this, given the optimism of youth. They are not shunning the political party system. In fact, they appear to be no more dissatisfied with the party system than their elders. They are not shunning the party system in favour of extra parliamentary political activism, such as anti-globalization or environmental group activism. Most of them are simply not engaged at all.

The author of this book points out that the two most important factors influencing young voter turnout are level of political knowledge and level of political interest. In both cases the level is very low among young Canadians. To persuade more of them to go out to the polls at election time, we must find ways to engage them in the political process. Lack of knowledge leads to lack of interest, which leads to disengagement. Conversely, increased knowledge should increase interest and in turn lead to increased participation.

Political knowledge includes knowledge of the civics process and structure, and an understanding of how that process affects issues of concern to the young voters. We need to demonstrate the mechanics and relevance of government. Young voters need to know how government affects their lives.

The bedrock of democracy is the educational level of its citizens, including in this case the educational level with respect to the democratic process itself. Many schools work hard at this and I urge all provincial and territorial ministries of education to strengthen and make mandatory civics education at both the elementary and secondary levels. Ideally, the secondary components would be for 16 to 18 year olds in the pre-voting years.

I urge the federal government to support these efforts in every appropriate way. It could work through the Council of Ministers of Education of Canada to do this, but there are other avenues which would be equally effective. There are already federal materials available to assist in the process. Heritage Canada, Elections Canada and the Library of Parliament all do good work in this area. I urge the federal government to produce and circulate more electoral educational materials. I urge my fellow MPs to visit schools and youth groups to discuss their work and our fine system of government.

My motion suggests more immediate practical action which is within the federal jurisdiction. Under the Canada Elections Act the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada are mandated to develop and circulate educational materials on our electoral system and to actively promote our democracy in various ways. They are already doing some of these things, as a visit to the Elections Canada website will show. The website is listed on the list of references we just tabled.

I urge Canadians to contact Elections Canada for information on such things as the symposium on electoral participation in Canada, which was held at Carleton University last March or the National Forum on Youth Voting, which was held in Calgary last October. Again, these are referenced in the list. Reports from these events and other activities are available on the Elections Canada website.

These meetings brought together young people and representatives of business and non-governmental agencies, aboriginal groups, labour organizations as well as academics, researchers and the media. This is fine work, but it needs to be promoted and expanded. While civics education in all its forms is a very valuable and stimulating interest in the political process, I believe that well organized formal simulations of voting for young people below voting age with published results would greatly heighten awareness and interest in participation in elections.

The idea is that around election time, and this could apply to municipal, provincial and first nations as well as federal elections, voting could be conducted in schools and other locations using formal Elections Canada procedures and materials, for example, official looking ballots and ballot boxes.

At the end of election day, ballots from such simulations would be counted using official procedures. The results would be published by Elections Canada so that the young pre-voters' choices would be widely known.

There are already organizations and individuals in Canada doing this sort of thing. For example, I commend Joel Parkes and teachers in Peterborough, notably Gary Fenn, guide and scout leaders in Peterborough and others in my riding for their work on these matters.

I also commend Taylor Gunn, the chief electoral officer of Kids Voting Canada for the great success of Student Vote 2003 during last year's Ontario election. In that simulation for the Ontario provincial election, 335,000 students took part and voted. I would point out that the number of students who voted was more than the total populations of the territories and our smaller provinces combined.

I commend the scout and guide leaders in my riding and across Canada for their fine work in connection with the civics badge, and elementary and high school teachers for their fine work.

I commend the 20,000 Project which is particularly geared to encourage young women to vote.

I commend Rush the Vote, a Canadian expression of Rock the Vote in the United States.

I commend the Kawartha Rotary Club and the Peterborough Rotary Club for their work on citizenship.

These are only examples of work that is already underway to improve the participation of young people in public life, especially in the electoral process.

My motion suggests, in fact it directs, that Elections Canada work actively and creatively with such groups and people. Elections Canada should provide federal polling instructions for mock elections and federal polling station materials to give a sense of authenticity to the efforts of these people. It should also provide instructions and examples for teachers, scout leaders, service club leaders and others who might become involved in this important work.

Above all, Elections Canada should publish the results of such mock elections so that the voices of pre-voters will be clearly heard.

I see this as a motion that will engage the House of Commons and all political parties here in addressing the problem of low voter turnout. I do not see this as a partisan matter, but something that all MPs are concerned about. That is why in my motion Elections Canada is directed to report regularly on these matters to Parliament through the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs on which senior party officials represent all parties here.

I urge all members to support this motion so that Elections Canada will be encouraged to be even more responsive in these matters as the next federal election draws near.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Loyola Hearn Progressive Conservative St. John's West, NL

Mr. Speaker, I was listening to the member as he talked about commending one group after another. I commend the member for bringing forward such a motion which we solidly support. I think it is a tremendous idea.

I believe that in the last election only 25% of our population under 30 voted. Some of that is disinterest in politics generally; however, I believe a lot of it is many of our young people really do not understand the system. It is not something that is taught, unfortunately, in many schools.

That is basically my question for the member. How can we at this level draw attention to the deficit that is out there? How can we get young people involved? They are the people who really should be interested because it is their future that we deal with in this great establishment.

Besides creating the awareness here and hopefully, with cooperation, at the provincial level also, we must create the mechanism to get people involved. Perhaps if federal and provincial elections were to coincide, good habits would be formed. It is crucial that good habits be formed.

Sometimes during the elections, mini elections are held but they are usually held in kindergarten classes and the lower grades. The kids get caught up in it.

If we gave students in the whole system the chance to vote when issues were being discussed, we might not only get students interested, but we might get the teachers more interested. Students would come out of our schools understanding our parliamentary system, which many of them do not understand now.

Does the member think we should push it at this end to encourage the educational system to concentrate more on teaching our young people about the importance of democracy and the importance of the great parliamentary system we have? Then they could participate in making the decisions which will affect their future.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from St. John's West understands the sense of the amended motion. It is understanding that is lacking. It is a lack of appreciation for how it would directly affect the lives of those young people and their families.

I imagined a family going to vote and the children would vote at the polling place. It would be a mock vote. That experience would stick in their memories. When those young people became of voting age they would have those memories. My understanding is that legally it would be very difficult to have a mock vote in a polling station environment. That is why I am looking forward to the changed amendment put forward by my colleague's party.

My colleague is absolutely right with regard to elementary schools. At the moment in Ontario there is a terrific civics course in grade 5. The kids get very excited. They get involved in mock elections and so on. As I said in my remarks, it is critical that the experience be repeated fairly high in the secondary system so it will stick with young people. We all know that one of the reasons they do not vote is not because of a lack of interest, but because they are away from home and they are adjusting to a new environment at the time of an election.

I stress that the federal government must show leadership by doing things which it is legally entitled to do and which Elections Canada is supposed to do. We, as members of Parliament, through our standing committee can monitor what Elections Canada is doing and also provide materials which could be of use in a municipal election. At least there could be a model for that kind of thing.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Lorne Nystrom NDP Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, the member is talking about establishing or supporting a parallel voting opportunity. I wonder if he would expand on what he means by a parallel voting opportunity. Is he talking about looking at Internet voting for example, or does he have something else in mind?

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, parallel voting is an opportunity for people who are not yet of age to vote to express their opinion during an election. Although that opinion would not count in the election, that opinion would be expressed, for example, the following day and would be published by Elections Canada. That is the parallel opportunity.

A number of groups are already doing this. The idea is that the federal government would aid those groups in making these experiences even more realistic than they are at the present time.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Gurmant Grewal Canadian Alliance Surrey Central, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise on behalf of the constituents of Surrey Central to participate in the debate on Motion No. 398. This motion, brought forward by the member for Peterborough, calls upon the House to direct the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada to further their efforts to facilitate youth voting initiatives. Mr. Speaker, we had consultations and I will be moving a friendly amendment at the end of my speech.

Let me address some of the issues. Recent election results explain why we are so concerned about engaging youth in politics. In the 2000 federal election, voter turnout declined to its lowest level in over 40 years when 61% of eligible voters cast their ballots. That is significantly lower than the norm of 70% to 75% turnout.

This is a direct result of the Liberal style of pork barrel politics. In 1988 the federal election voter turnout was 75%. A quick look at some of the world's other major democracies make the situation look no better, but we are far behind countries like France, Germany and Sweden that all have turnouts in the 80% range. In some countries, voting is a must. People do not have a second choice.

When we look at our Canadian numbers more closely, the situation becomes even more troubling. While voter turnout has declined for all age groups, the most significant drop has been among the young people, particularly those 18 to 24 years of age. In fact more than 75% of young people who had the right to vote in 2000 did not do so.

This trend is not unique to Canada but is common to many advanced democracies. A 1999 study by the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance found youth voter turnout in 15 western European countries was 10% lower than the overall turnout.

An Elections Canada study in 2000 found that 78% of people 18 to 20 years old failed to vote; 73% of people 21 to 24 years old did not vote; and 62% of people 25 to 29 years old did not vote. On the other hand, 83% of those 68 years of age and over voted; 80% of people 58 to 67 years of age voted; and 76% of people 48 to 57 years of age voted.

Obviously if we want to increase the number of Canadians who vote in the federal election or any other election for that matter, we have to look at younger Canadians and consider why they are not participating in the electoral process.

Studies show that younger Canadians are not as interested as older citizens in politics. While 40% of all Canadians are under age 30, only 5% of the membership of political parties is drawn from this group which is 40% of the population in Canada. This is despite the fact that political parties open membership to people as young as 14 years of age.

A study by the Institute for Research on Public Policy found only 13% of those 18 to 29 years of age could name the prime minister, the finance minister or the leader of the opposition. In a similar 1990 survey, 20% of youth respondents were able to name all three politicians. This lack of knowledge often deters young voters from casting a ballot. They feel they would rather not vote than make an uninformed choice.

Young Canadians are less likely than their older compatriots to follow public affairs. Only 41% of respondents between 18 to 24 years of age follow political issues very closely or somewhat closely.

Teens and people in their early twenties use less social services than older people and they do not pay as many taxes. They are in good health and do not pay much attention to health issues other than going to the gym. The Canada pension plan is the furthest thing from their minds.

Simply put, people who have more of a stake in the community and have homes in the community pay more attention to the activities of the government.

What can we do? Should we just give up on young voters by concluding that they will become involved when they are ready? I do not think so. It is their future that is at stake.

By increasing the involvement of younger Canadians in the political process, we can hope they will become less cynical, develop a civic consciousness, feel closer to their neighbourhoods and take pride in their communities.

From my experience, visiting schools and meeting with teens and students, when they have the opportunity to discuss political issues, I found out that they have strong opinions. They are equally interested. When young people are informed, they want to vote. We should therefore seek to involve people in political activity at younger ages. I encourage students during their summer breaks to volunteer in my member of Parliament office. Many students come and are very happy at the end of their volunteer experience. They learn a lot and I benefit from their new ideas as well.

I was eight years old when I had the opportunity to meet the vice-president of the U.S.A. That meeting left a mark on my whole life. That is probably one of the reasons I am in this chamber today. The meeting with the vice-president of the United States in India means something. The VIPs are treated differently in Asia, as we know. In fact the vice-president invited me to visit the vice-president's gallery in the United States senate chamber. I did not know what that invitation meant. When I was old enough, I went to the United States embassy and asked officials there what the invitation was good for and they explained it to me.

One of our youngest MPs in the House, the hon. member for Calgary West, told me that when he was young his dad would ask him to watch the news before he was allowed to go to bed. He did that for quite some time. That is probably one of the reasons he is here in this chamber.

I will give another example. Mr. Speaker, I know you have met my younger son Livjot. When I was first elected I brought him to the House after a month or two. I knew he was a very curious kid. I told him to please wait in my office while I went to the House and that when I came back I would show him around. This kid could not wait in the office. He took the directory of the members of Parliament from my staff. I asked Dee where my son was and was told that he was okay, that he was just going around and that he would be back.

At 3:15, after question period, I went to my office to take my son to lunch and was surprised to find that he was not there. I had a phone call from the Prime Minister's Office. He went to the Prime Minister's Office and the offices of many other members of Parliament to talk with them. He became interested in the issues after that.

When I am abroad on parliamentary business, I now get all my updates from my younger son. He keeps all the important newspaper clippings for me and I have never had to throw any out or search for any in the waste basket.

What I have been saying is that if we get our kids involved and keep them in the political and electoral circles, it builds some interest in them.

Coming back to the point, when youth are involved in mock elections or a mock parliament, it is a good opportunity for them to experience firsthand what politics is about and it makes them interested in voting.

I applaud the work already being done by Elections Canada. I would encourage the Chief Electoral Officer to consider other ways to expand his efforts in this area.

At one time, it was very worthwhile for people to get involved in politics. People use to show up at any community event but they are now losing interest. We in this House should try too restore the integrity in and credibility of politics.

Mr. Speaker, I have had discussions with the hon. member for Peterborough and I hope there will be unanimous consent for the following amendment. I move:

That the House direct the Chief Electoral Officer and Elections Canada to expand its initiatives to promote the participation of young Canadians in the electoral process, and that these initiatives include making available educational material to schools and other organizations, and supporting parallel voting opportunities for prospective electors during federal elections, including making available polling materials and the publication of results of such parallel voting, and that Elections Canada work creatively with such groups as Kids Voting Canada, Scouts Canada, Guides Canada, teachers and others, and provide regular reports on these matters to the House of Commons through the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

I hope, Mr. Speaker, you find unanimous consent among all party members to accept this amendment for the sake of the future of our youth in the country.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I seek the guidance of the hon. member for Surrey Central and, of course, to my right on the other side, the member for Peterborough.

It would appear to the Chair that what we have in essence, under the title of an amendment, is, for all intents and purposes, a new motion.

I see a disagreement from the member for Peterborough. Then the Chair is in a bit of a quandary. Without delaying the business of the House, I will take the matter under advisement and I will resume debate with the hon. member for Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île-d'Orléans.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I understand that you want to take the matter under advisement, but you understand that I cannot deliver quite the same speech. I would not want this to encroach on the time allotted to me, especially since I see that you gave the member for Surrey Central more than 10 minutes. You warned him that he had only one minute left before he started reading his amendment. I do not wish to start a debate on this, but it would be essential to know your decision immediately because it is not the same speech.

I want you to know that I do not agree with the original motion that was put forward. However, I am in favour of the motion as amended, if you accept the amendment. You understand that I would not be able to deliver the same speech. A speech on a motion I disagree with is different than a speech on an amended motion that I do agree with. I would like to have your advice on this, Mr. Speaker.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Under the circumstances, I will take the matter under advisement. Allow me to consult a little longer and I will do my best to come back to this matter in a few moments.

I have consulted a little more on this matter before the House and on some of the discussions that have taken place. I will propose to the House that what we have at this moment is a new motion presented by the hon. member for Surrey Central, seconded by the member for Northumberland, the effect being that the motion would replace the original motion presented to the House by the hon. member for Peterborough.

I hope this is clear enough.

Is there consent of this House to debate this new motion?

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I must say to begin with that I acknowledge the work done originally by my colleague, the member for Peterborough, who is also the chair of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

We have had the opportunity on a number of occasions to hear from the Chief Electoral Officer. He organized one particular session on the youth vote. I have listened with interest to what my colleague, the member for Peterborough, has had to say.

I have no intention of rereading the text of the new motion presented by the hon. member for Surrey Central. No one could not be in favour of it. Who could be against virtue? We all want to go to heaven, even if we do not always act like saints here on earth. Basically, no one could be against it.

I do not want to go so far as to say this is just wishful thinking, but it is an expression of good intentions. I would point out to my colleagues from Surrey Central and Peterborough that there are already certain things in place, such as material for schools, like ballot boxes to elect class presidents and the like. I have already been involved with the secondary schools on this. A school principal called me to ask for some voting booths and cardboard ballot boxes precisely to introduce our young people to the voting process.

So, basically, this is already in place. The motion merely reinforces it, so one could not be opposed.

One of the problems, however, that I have with the motion of my colleague, the hon. member for Peterborough that is, was that when real elections, either by-elections or general elections, were held there were to be different coloured ballot boxes for young voters. That is what I was referring to just now. If the speeches were on the original motion by my colleague from Peterborough, I would have had to make some unfavourable remarks.

I want to clarify something for his benefit and our audience, who heard his remarks on the first motion. I was a member of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs and I can say, on my behalf and that of my party, that I have serious concerns about having ballot boxes of a different colour for young voters.

One could wonder how secret the ballot would be. This motion also referred to a separate count. The Chief Electoral Officer would be required to publish voting results. I think that would be counterproductive. Ballot secrecy is important. In Quebec and Canada, anyone 18 years old or older has the right to cast his or her vote. This is true for my 96-year-old mother-in-law, who has been voting for decades, and also for the young person who just turned 18 and is discovering firsthand what the democratic process by which we elect representatives to speak for us is all about.

The right to vote applies to anyone 18 years old or older. I can therefore not agree with having ballot boxes of a different colour; this would mean telling young people to get in the line at the left because there is a parallel polling division for them.

My colleague, the hon. member for Peterborough, has repeated at least five or six times—he may want to check in Hansard —that this kind of measure is designed not only to promote voting but also to make the young less cynical about politics. This was also reiterated by my colleague from Surrey Centre.

I see that my hon. friend from Peterborough is nodding in agreement that this is the desired objective. I would like to tell the hon. member for Peterborough that, if we want young people not to be cynical about politics, perhaps we should ensure that politics deserves their confidence.

Mr. Speaker, do you think that with all the scandals in the air right now over the sponsorship business, that this will encourage young people to be interested in politics? Do you think this will encourage young people to trust politicians?

I have a son, 24 years old, who is watching right now. You probably know, Mr. Speaker—because I know your children are young adults—that these are young people who, without being as mad for politics as we are, watch television, listen to the radio, and read newspapers. What have they been seeing all over the media for the past two or three weeks, especially since we came back to the House on February 2? Scandals to the right and scandals to the left.

Events like this do not encourage young people to exercise their right to vote. When we meet young people they tell us that we all look the same to them, “You are all a gang of bandits. You only want to stuff your own pockets” they say. I am not dreaming this. This is what young people think about politics today.

Young people will not be encouraged to vote with day-glo coloured ballot boxes, mauve ones or ones with lights, or boxes with a joystick on them like a Playstation or Xbox.

There must be trust, and that trust must be earned. You do not go out and buy it by the kilo. A person does not go to the store to buy a kilo or a metre of trust. “Well, now, I have just bought myself 1.5 metres of trust”. Trust has to be earned.

We politicians have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We need to be a regular presence in our communities. I do not wish to pass myself off as someone special, but I can say that I have some 8 to 10 political activities every weekend. When it comes time for an election, I do not hear anyone say “Oh, there you are, Mr. Guimond, now that the election has been called.”

Why do people have a tendency to think that politicians become visible only when it is election time? Because there are some politicians who get themselves elected on fancy promises, pie in the sky promises: Vote for me and you will see. I will solve all your problems. Vote for me and money will drop from the sky by the bucketful.

Fortunately, the public is becoming increasingly aware. Our young people are becoming increasingly aware. They no longer let themselves be swayed by fine promises. They want to see concrete actions and achievements. Félix Leclerc lived on Île d'Orléans, which is in my riding. In one of his songs about politicians, he said:

On the eve of an election, he'd call you son. The day after, of course, he had no clue what your name was.

Félix Leclerc wrote that in the 1960s because this was how politicians typically behaved. In 1960, there were fewer female politicians, but the behaviour was typical and that is what Félix Leclerc thought of politicians.

Consequently, if we want to encourage young people to vote, we have to show them that politicians are not all alike, that there are some who are less than honest, but we must avoid generalizations.

We, the members, the 301 elected representatives of this House, are one of the most important components, independent of political partisanship. We must earn society's trust and we must do what we say we will.

The current sponsorship scandal will not help young people have more trust in politics and politicians.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Lorne Nystrom NDP Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, I want to say a few words in this debate in the House in support of the motion put forward by the member for Peterborough. I certainly support the motion he has presented to us.

In the last election campaign, the turnout for young people between the ages of 18 and 24 was around 25%. That is very low.

When I was elected here in 1968, I had barely turned 22 years old. In fact, I had turned 22 during the campaign. That was during the Trudeaumania era, the Kennedy era, the time of all the student revolutions in Europe and so on. There was a great deal of interest among young people in those days.

From the 1940s through the 1950s and 1960s to the 1970s, it was typical to have a turnout of about 75% or 80% in a campaign. After that, right across the board, we started to see a gradual drop in the participation rate at the polls.

Throughout the years, though, with the possible exception of the 1960s and the whole youth revolution, young people have turned out in very low numbers. Even then, it was lower than the average numbers for the general population of Canada.

It has always been a challenge to have young people participate in the political process, so I am glad we have this motion before the House today. I wish the member for Peterborough had not temporarily left the Chamber, because I wanted to ask him a couple of questions.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I know there was no malice intended, but I want to give the member the assurance that the member for Peterborough is assisting the House in this matter. I am sure that he will maintain the same keen interest he has had, of course, being the original mover of the motion that has led to this debate.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:45 p.m.

NDP

Lorne Nystrom NDP Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, I should have made it explicit that he was assisting the Chair and the desk on the motion. Indeed, I do spot him now. I do want to ask a couple of questions of the member. I know he cannot answer because he has already spoken, but he can ponder them.

In the meantime I wanted to say I do agree that there should be more educational material made available to schools and young people's organizations. I think that is very important.

I also believe that Elections Canada should be directed to work with different organizations and groups such as Kids Voting Canada and Scouts Canada, and through the schools, the high schools, with teachers, and in junior colleges and universities. I believe that is very important.

The one thing I would like the member to think about is not just the possibility of having young people between the ages of 16 and 18 voting in so-called mock elections in a parallel voting process, because I can remember participating in those when I was a high school and university student as well: I would like the member to consider the possibility of lowering the voting age to 16.

I think we should take a really good look at lowering the voting age to 16 so that people between the ages of 16 and 18 have an actual vote. They can help determine the members of this Parliament and the Government of Canada.

I remember when I was first elected back in 1968 when I was 22. I was one of several members of Parliament who moved a private member's bill in the House to lower the voting age from 21 to 18. That was considered fairly radical in the years before 1968.

Now I think the time has come that we should look seriously at lowering the voting age to 16. In our country a person can drive a car and get a driver's licence at age 16. There are many other things a person is legally allowed to do at the age of 16.

We want to engage young people. We want to get them interested in our process, interested in being a part of the public policy decision making body. I would say to the member for Peterborough: give some thought to lowering the voting age to 16. This might be a way of getting young people really engaged. I think it is a motion that we should be putting before the House very shortly.

I also want to make another point in terms of the participation rate or the turnout among young people and that is the whole idea of reinstating enumeration. We have had all kinds of complaints from people across the country about being left off the voters list.

If we reinstate enumeration, where enumerators go from house to house, it would be a very good thing for young people in particular because younger people tend to move from place to place. Not only are university students away during the university year or back home depending on when the election is, but young people move out on their own. They are getting an apartment, a job, seeing different parts of the country, and travelling a bit. If we had door to door enumeration and put them on the voters list, it would act as a reminder that there is a general election campaign. This is something I would like the member across the way to think of as well: reinstating enumeration.

The third point I wish to mention to the member for Peterborough, who is an independent free spirit and a progressive member, is the whole idea of a fixed election date. I introduced a motion in the House just last week to bring in a fixed election date in this country, except of course where a government loses confidence and has to go to the polls. I recommend a fixed election date. We would have an election every four years.

This has nothing to do with the sponsorship scandal whatsoever. I have believed for a long time that we should have a fixed election date. It should be in either the spring or the fall, in either June or October, the two best months in this country in which to have a general election campaign.

If we do have a fixed date, it takes away the power of the Prime Minister and the premiers to manipulate the date for their own benefits and for their own party's benefit. There is not a party in this country, including my own in Saskatchewan, or the party in B.C. or Ontario, where we have formed provincial governments, that has not manipulated the election date in order to suit their own political interests. It is a natural thing, because the Prime Minister and premiers can call elections when they see fit.

I remember talking with Tommy Douglas a few years before he passed away. He had been the premier of Saskatchewan and was elected in 1944. He had elections every four years in June: in 1948, in 1952, in 1956, and in 1960, all in June. He said that one regret he had was he did not make it a statutory requirement to have elections held every four years. I think that would also encourage young people to vote because they would not suspect or see the political leadership manipulating the date for its own benefit and for its own opportunistic reasons.

British Columbia is the only province that now has a fixed election day set by the Liberal government of Premier Campbell. When he became premier of that province a couple of years ago, the date was set for four years hence. Therefore, a level playing field and a sense of fairness that young people are so concerned about have been created.

The last point I want to make, which I suppose this is the most important point, is the whole idea of changing our voting system, and I am not sure where the member for Peterborough stands on the idea.

The United States, India and Canada are the only three countries with more than 10 million people that use the pure first past the post system. Even Britain has a partial system of proportional representation in Scotland and Wales, and they elect all their MPs to the European Parliament through PR.

I would like the member for Peterborough to do some thinking about reforming the voting system. I am just talking about the principle of proportional representation. Under PR, every vote counts, no vote is wasted and a party that gets around 20% of the votes gets around 20% of the seats. Therefore, we have equality of people from one coast to the other. Young people then could see their vote count in the make up of Parliament and the government of the day.

We should strike an all-party committee to look at the idea of voting reform. We could have public hearings, come up with a couple of different models, bring them back to Parliament and then put the most attractive new model, along with the first past the post system, on a ballot for a national referendum, like was done in New Zealand and elsewhere, and let the people of this country choose between the status quo and a system of proportional representation.

These are just some ideas I wanted to suggest in terms of debate. I support the motion, but let us look at reinstating the enumeration, lowering the voting age to 16, bringing in a fixed election day and reforming the voting system to bring in a system of proportional representation that would be much more inclusive and empowering to return the governance of this place to the people of Canada.

Electoral SystemPrivate Members' Business

6:55 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

As no one is seeking the floor, there is the possibility of a five minute right of reply. The motion that was originally introduced by the member for Peterborough has since been replaced by a motion sponsored by the member for Surrey Central.

I understand there have been discussions between the members for Peterborough and Surrey Central and the agreement is that the member for Peterborough, who originally tabled the motion before the House, will be given the opportunity of right of reply.