House of Commons Hansard #3 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was beef.

Topics

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Merrifield Canadian Alliance Yellowhead, AB

Madam Chair, this affects not only people directly involved in the animal industry. My colleague is absolutely right about the organic industry. This also impacts sport hunters. It impacts the goat industry, but we never believed that it should because there is absolutely no science behind that. This impacts the grain industry, which I am also a part of. It impacts the trucking industry and all of the by-product industries, all of the dealers. Every primary job that is lost in agriculture has a seven to one spinoff. The repercussions of what happens when a farmer loses is devastating.

We must understand that we are talking not just about the agriculture industry but about the whole base of an economy in many of our provinces. They are fundamental, primary industries. If we do not do something about it, if we do not recognize that it is absolutely imperative that the government stand up in this crisis, then we will never recover from it.

This should not be a take note debate. This is an emergency debate for an emergency situation. There is no time to sit around and talk about it. It is time for action.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Charlie Penson Canadian Alliance Peace River, AB

Madam Chair, this is a great opportunity for me tonight to talk about the serious problem that we have in the entire livestock industry across Canada.

We left this place in June knowing that we had a problem. One case of mad cow was found and in fact, Madam Chair, I hate to tell you this, but it was found in my riding in Peace River.

It triggered a series of events that nobody a year ago could have possibly imagined. The seriousness of this problem has affected entire sectors of agriculture not only related to beef but as my colleague from Yellowhead just said, others are caught up in this whole thing, and there are a lot of innocent players whose very livelihood is at stake.

This is a North American problem. Up until this event happened, there were over seven million beef animals a year crossing the Canada-U.S. border. They were coming to feedlots in Canada from the United States. They were coming to grass in my riding in northern Alberta from Montana. Cattle from Alberta and other parts were going to feedlots in Montana and there was a great flow back and forth. That is how it should be. That is the integrated nature of the North American economy that really needs to be exploited further.

The fact that we have 40% of our cattle herd going into exports into the United States primarily is no accident. We have grown that market. We have a very good product to sell and I maintain that the risk factor here is still very low. In spite of that, we have a confidence problem that has to be overcome and that is why we have to address this problem in a North American manner.

The Minister of International Trade is sitting here. He knows that the growth of our market into Mexico has gone up 700% in the last few years. We have a quality product. We cannot lose those kinds of markets.

Up until now we had $4 billion of exports of beef, of which 90% was going into the United States. That has been essentially cut off. That is gone. Only 10% is moving through, the boneless box beef that is 30 months and younger and we need to have that expanded. We need to have North American standards. I suggest that the United States move to ban blood products and supplements is something that we must do here as well. It makes sense that whatever we do, we must do together. And we must get that border reopened.

The problem is, if it does not happen this year, what is our response? What is our response going to be because we are having a massive devastation in the agriculture sector and it does not just stop at the farm gate. Truckers are losing their trucks because they no longer have any cattle to haul.

I drove by a farm dealer the other day who had one four wheel tractor for grain and 10 for feedlots. That is the nature of what has happened in my riding. The growth of the livestock sector encouraged by government to diversify has been a great thing and something we should all embrace. But the fact that it is drawn and that it is in trouble now means that we have a problem that is going to be compounded because it does not stop at the farm gate as we all know.

In addition to that, with livestock being slowed down on the farms means that the problem is getting bigger because at some point they are going to have to be marketed into a market that is basically non-existent.

It is up to the government. Canadians expect the Government of Canada to respond to a national emergency in a manner that is befitting of Canadians and that means that it has to backstop these producers during this time. It can start by doing something about the traditional culls that happen, 600,000 animals per year would be a good start. If we were to get the U.S. border open soon, that would be wonderful. I suggest we cannot hold our breath because this is an election year in the United States and we all know what happens with politics there. We simply cannot wait for that to happen. These people need some help now.

The ongoing problem of when the border will reopen is something we have to continue to work at. The longer term solution is more harmonization with the U.S. and Mexico in NAFTA to address some of these serious issues.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jay Hill Canadian Alliance Prince George—Peace River, BC

Madam Chair, obviously as I sit right behind my hon. colleague from Peace River, I could not help but pay rapt attention to his remarks this evening concerning this crisis in our beef industry. As he so eloquently put it, and as did others from both sides of the House, this extends well beyond just beef producers, although they might be the ones hardest hit.

One of the things I have heard in my constituency in the past eight and a half months since May 20 when this crisis befell Canada, and I extend that all across the country, is that Parliament has been in recess for nearly six months of that eight and a half months. The government took the usual summer recess for three months, from the middle of June to the middle of September. Then because of that party's leadership issue and wanting to install a new prime minister the Liberals took another almost three month recess and we just started sitting again.

As my colleague from Yellowhead remarked a few minutes ago, we are not even having an emergency debate. After all that time, the government does not believe that this is an emergency. It is an emergency in Prince George—Peace River. I am sure it is an emergency in my colleague's riding adjacent to mine in Peace River, Alberta. I believe it is an emergency all across Canada. Yet we have a government that seems to have a problem with addressing it as an emergency.

My colleague, in his capacity as the international trade critic, has had a lot of experience in this over the past 10 years that he and I have sat together in the House of Commons. I wonder if he would address in the time remaining some of the specific things he believes the government should be doing to move this issue forward, rather than putting forward some pretty lame excuses that we saw from the Minister of Agriculture earlier in the debate today. After eight and a half months it was very depressing to hear those remarks.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Charlie Penson Canadian Alliance Peace River, AB

Madam Chair, my colleague from Prince George—Peace River and I do share a boundary on our constituencies and we know the seriousness of this problem.

Quite frankly, it is a $30 billion industry in Canada. When we talk about losing a $4 billion export market, that is serious enough, but I am worried that there will be a collapse of the industry entirely.

Farmers are holding a lot of animals on their farms. They do not have a cash flow. They are hoping the border will be reopened. Normally the farmers put up so much hay and so much grain silage and so on to handle the situation. They probably have a 20% increase in animals that they are holding hoping that something will happen. In fact, there is no market for them. This is a very serious problem.

My colleague asked me what I would suggest. I noticed that there was a ruling today out of the United States which suggested that there would be some problems with the U.S. in the way they handled this. We will go back into a notice period where the USDA will post a notice of anyone who has any complaints about the process. We were almost home free the last time, before the second mad cow was found in Washington state.

I am hoping the Minister of Agriculture will talk to his counterpart in the United States, Ann Veneman, and get the minimal posting time here. We do not need two months. We have been through this once before. It could be as short as two weeks. I would ask the minister today to take notice that he needs to talk to his counterpart and have the minimal posting possible.

I do believe we will also have to harmonize our standards with those of the United States. There needs to be discussion. There are feed products that are not allowed in the United States which are still allowed in Canada. These will not meet the criteria. Consumer confidence is ultimately the thing that governs all of this, including the U.S. government's reactions. I think we have to gain that back.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Speller Liberal Haldimand—Norfolk—Brant, ON

Madam Chair, I rise on a point of order.

It has been mentioned a couple of times about emergency debates. It is important for the Canadian public to understand that it is the Speaker of the House of Commons who rules on whether or not a debate is an emergency debate. It has been mentioned here, accusing that somehow this is not important to the government because the government did not rule it to be an emergency debate. It is the Speaker of the House who does that.

Madam Chair, through you, they are challenging the Speaker. It is very important to know that is the rule which governs. I wish the hon. member would read the standing orders and understand that.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Chair

With all due respect to the hon. minister, I think that the matter is a matter of interpretation. I do not believe that anyone has challenged the Speaker. If they did, I would chastise them. But I thank you very much for your comments.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

9:55 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Madam Chair, I would like to thank the House for agreeing to hold this emergency debate on BSE this evening.

Tonight I will speak not only to the farmers who certainly understand the situation, but I will try to inform all Canadians, those who are not as close to the problem, to help them understand what our farming sector is going through. We needed to have an open, frank and factual debate on the current situation to discuss ways to help the industry.

Canadian farmers in all sectors are feeling the negative impact of BSE at this time. As a government and as the member for Lambton—Kent—Middlesex in which agriculture is a primary industry, it is our duty to take any and all possible steps to make sure the sector regains the position as world leader in beef production. The government is here for our farmers and we will continue to act in the best interests of the industry.

Prior to Christmas the Canadian agricultural industry appeared to have a positive outlook on the BSE situation. The United States had proposed a rule that would possibly allow livestock under 30 months of age to enter the United States from Canada. Although the comment period on the proposed rule ended January 5, 2004, everything has changed since the discovery of the first reported BSE cow in the United States.

Therefore, we as the federal government need to ensure that we do everything possible to convince the international community that Canadian beef is safe and that borders should be completely open to Canadian livestock. We also need to ensure that there is enough financial support to sustain our beef industry.

Since the discovery and confirmation of a single BSE infected cow in Canada, the beef industry has not been the same. Just when things were starting to look up and we were convincing the United States to open its border to livestock under 30 months of age, our beef industry took another devastating hit.

My hon. colleagues and I understand what the agriculture sector is going through and we are committed to helping the industry through this most terrible time. We need to continue to convince countries to open their borders to Canadian beef and livestock.

Over the summer the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, for which I was vice-chair, held three emergency meetings to examine the BSE situation in Canada. In January I read an article in the National Post by Diane Francis, who made a comparison that I thought summarized the effect BSE has on our country and the farming community. She stated, “Mad cow disease, for those unfamiliar with its economic effects, is the agricultural equivalent of a bioterrorism attack. It can be fatal, wreaks financial havoc and creates trade panic”. That quote from Diane Francis pretty much says it all.

Since May 2003 federal and provincial governments, along with industry officials, have been working tirelessly on this issue. I cannot remember a time when all levels of government and industry officials have worked in such a cooperative manner in order to achieve the same goal, that is, to completely open international borders to Canadian beef and livestock.

We all know it does not matter where the cow was born. What is important is that we work together to convince the international community that our beef is safe and that decisions to open or close borders need to be based on sound science, not politics or trade protection, which in my opinion is the problem.

As we know, the BSE infected cow found in the United States was born prior to the feed ban that was put in place in August 1997. Current investigations in both the United States and Canada are concentrating on the potential contaminated feed that the cow could have consumed and where that feed came from. Therefore, it is imperative that we ensure that both Canada and the United States have 100% compliance with the feed ban and that additional measures be taken to ensure that the possibility of consuming contaminated feed is eliminated.

In terms of the investigation, Canadian officials are focusing on determining the source of infection through a rigorous assessment of feed sources. They are conducting a comprehensive and thorough investigation which includes collecting, cross-referencing and validating information at all levels. This includes farm retail distribution levels, production levels as well as the source of raw materials.

In addition, the CFIA is mapping the movement of any animals which may have been born within the 12 month window of the animal and may have been exposed to the same feed. Such animals would be candidates for testing.

On July 18, 2003 new measures were introduced by Canada that required specified risk materials, SRMs, to be removed from cattle at slaughter. The effective date for these regulations was August 23. However, federally registered establishments, CFIA directed, required SRM removal as of July 24, 2003. Since the infected cow that was found in Washington state, the U.S. has taken similar actions.

The federal government is currently establishing a national network of labs that will focus on downer animals and those born before the start of the North American safety restrictions on cattle feed in 1997.

Although the circumstances around the two cases are different, both countries are now considered as minimal risk countries for BSE among the international community. Therefore, I do not believe there is anything to be gained by pointing fingers at each other. Instead we need to work together to resolve the situation and convince the world that our beef is safe.

In January Canada announced additional measures to support public confidence in Canadian beef products, including: enhancing measures related to animal identification, tracking and tracing; increasing the level of surveillance with the emphasis on testing of higher risk animals; and working to develop with the United States a North American approach to adjustments in our respective feeding restrictions that reflect the integrated nature of the cattle industry in North America.

The CFIA will be enhancing BSE surveillance, progressively increasing the number of animals tested annually, so that Canada will meet the anticipated new international standard and retain its status as a low risk country for BSE. That standard involves testing to a level capable of detecting the disease when it is at a level of prevalence as low as one case in one million cattle.

The CFIA will aim to test a minimum of 8,000 animals over the next 12 months and then continue to progressively increase the level of testing to 30,000 animals a year. The ultimate number of animals tested will reflect international standards, which are expected to be revised over the next two years. Testing will be focused on those animals most at risk for BSE. These include animals demonstrating clinical signs consistent with BSE, so-called downer animals, those unable to stand, as well as animals that have died on farms, are diseased or must be destroyed because of serious illness. A sample of healthy older animals will also be tested.

Everyone knows that the beef industry has taken a devastating hit since the first discovery of BSE on May 20 and the new case has not helped to improve the situation. In order to help support the beef industry through the difficult times, the federal government has provided more than $520 million.

The most recent funding announcement was made at the end of November, dealing with the cull animal program. This program is aimed at helping Canadian cattle producers deal with older animals that need to be culled from herds. The Government of Canada is committing $120 million as base funding for all regions of Canada. It has offered to cost share the program with provincial and territorial governments on a 60-40 basis, which could bring the funding to $200 million.

Now that there has been a new case of BSE discovered in North America and it is unknown when international borders will completely reopen to Canadian livestock, we should find out why prices at retail levels have not lowered, even though cattle prices have been reduced dramatically. We need to ensure that a fair share of the money that consumers are paying for their beef is getting back to the primary producers. Far too often, primary producers do not receive their share of the finished product that they produce and this has to stop. Producers will not be able to afford to farm if this continues.

Despite the international standards set by the Office International des Épizooties, Canada was able to regain access to the United States, Mexico and Russia in just over 100 days as opposed to the recommended seven years. No other country hit by mad cow has been able to reopen its borders so quickly, albeit to boxed beef. This proves that the international community has confidence in the surveillance and testing we have in place and the efforts by the federal and provincial governments, along with industry, have been successful in that respect. CFIA proved that the agency had the proper tools to do its job in tracing back in such a short timeframe. I commend it on its work.

North America is a highly integrated beef industry and has functioned as a single market, with an invisible border. In the last five years two-way trade totalled $13.6 billion U.S. for 7.3 million animals. Canada exports about half our total production to the United States and 97% of all live cattle imported to the United States comes from Canada and Mexico.

Mr. Chair, I say to the farmers listening to this debate, whether it is here or in our communities, that we will continue to do everything in our power to convince the United States and other countries to open their borders to good Canadian beef and livestock.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Kevin Sorenson Canadian Alliance Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Chair, approximately three and a half years ago I stood in the House when at that time we were very concerned about an impending crisis in the agricultural sector and certainly in the beef sector as we saw television programs of burning carcasses in Great Britain.

Everyone will remember the emergency debates we had regarding the foot and mouth disease back then, because we realized that the industry was a fragile industry. We realized that if foot and mouth were to hit Canada, the borders would slam closed. This summer as I was travelling, I suddenly heard that we had an isolated BSE incident in Canada. The same fate as there was for foot and mouth was not what we experienced. We have a closed border.

We are here tonight because there is a crisis and it is a fragile industry. It is a very fragile industry. In fact, some would say that the death of the industry is upon us. Action is what is required right now.

I was very dismayed tonight as I sat here and listened not to our agriculture minister but to a former minister in the government who said that he believed we need to play hardball with the Americans right now, that the only game they understand is a tough response and we need to play that type of hardball. He says we need to look at other markets.

I very sincerely wish that before the government begins this hardball game with the United States it finds and accesses those other markets. To be quite frank, we have not seen that coming out of this department yet. My question to this member is, does she agree with those comments from the government side that we should play hardball?

The second issue is with regard to the feeding of animal byproducts to other animals. What measures are going to have to be put in place somewhere down the road? What measures does she believe are going to have to be put in place in order for us to show consumers that there is a safe meat supply here?

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, as to my approach, there are 301 members of Parliament. If every one of them were given the same case scenario we would probably have 301 different versions of how to attack the situation. My way of doing things may be different from that of some of my colleagues. My way of doing things may be different from that of some of my colleagues across the way. That is just human nature. The way I like to see the government moving is the way it has been going.

I do not think the borders would be open even to boxed beef if we had taken a hardball approach. I think the approach that we have been taking with the United States, with Ann Veneman, is to have open dialogue. She has moved with her officials down there to present that report and go to discussion. They did not have the extended timeframe for that discussion. The information came back sooner than usual. I think that approach has afforded our cattle producers the opportunity to allow boxed beef to cross, because no other country that has been affected with BSE has had their borders open, other than after seven years.

So yes, the best case scenario and the best solution to this is to have the open borders with the United States, but I think the approach we have taken to the present time has led to a more successful case.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Bill Casey Progressive Conservative Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Chair, I have a comment. I wrote down a quote from the member's speech. She said the beef industry has taken a hit. With all due respect, the reaction I have to this is that there is a misunderstanding of the extent of this problem. It is not only the beef industry. It is the hog industry, it is the sheep industry, it is the tractor industry, it is the feed industry, and it is the car dealer industry.

I want to make a point, too, that it is not only Alberta and Quebec. The farmers in Nova Scotia have been devastated by BSE. All farmers have been devastated by BSE. If we want to add to BSE, let us add the effects of hurricane Juan and the flooding that they have had to contend with. It has been blow after blow to the farmers in Nova Scotia. I recently met with the Atlantic Farmers Council president and the Nova Scotia Federation of Agriculture and they were telling me about families who are about to lose their farms, farms that have been in business for decades and for generations.

Here is my question. When the member for Yellowhead was saying that the border with the United States should be open, the Minister of Agriculture stood up and said he did not think the border should be open. This baffled me, because my understanding is that the government is trying to open the border again, but when the member for Yellowhead said the border should be open, the Minister of Agriculture made a point of standing up and saying no, the government does not want the border open yet, that it is waiting for the science. It is not trying to open the border.

Could the member clarify this for me? We want the border open and we want it open as fast as possible. We do not want to wait. We do not want any reasons or unreasonable excuses.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for the question but it is not a clarification that I need to make on behalf of the minister. I think it is a clarification that perhaps he has to make on behalf of his own member.

The way I interpret it on this side of the House--and we are not that far apart--is that he wanted a flow of American cattle coming across whether the border was closed or not. I think it is important that we have an open border with the United States.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

An hon. member

Just one way?

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

No. Sound science has been proven. According to the legislation in the act for BSE, what we have to do and what we have done on this side already is that we have joined with the United States, Canada and Mexico and with the OIE to address the criteria when this was first put forth, as to a country that has had several outbreaks of BSE and as to the criteria for keeping the border shut for seven years versus a country like Canada and now the United States.

Surely we can look at this in a different perspective: that we should not keep the borders closed for seven years. I think that is where we can make a better impact for our industry if we look at the criteria. Those countries are working with the international scientists to perhaps make those kinds of changes. I think that will be better for many countries that have experienced the same problem we have in Canada.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gary Schellenberger Progressive Conservative Perth—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, I stand tonight and congratulate my colleagues across the row who are neighbours of mine in southwestern Ontario. Yes, this is a Canadian problem, most definitely.

I think one of the reasons that the price is so wrong is that there is no competition in the killing process, especially for beef. I hope there is a new plant soon available in Ontario. Maybe there will be more. The government could have put some seed money forth earlier in this matter to get some competition. As we know, those of us who go to auctions, if there is only one bidder we do not start at the top price. That is one part of this.

I have to agree that dairy is not only milk; it is also replacement heifers. One person in my riding has 5,000 replacement heifers ready to go. They could go tomorrow. He is losing $2,000 a head; chalk that up.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, I thank my hon. colleague and neighbour from Perth—Middlesex for the question. Regarding the dollars and the need for more slaughter facilities--and hopefully we will have another facility opening shortly in Ontario--the cull cow program that the federal government put in was to address the animal price per head.

I have been speaking with the Ontario provincial agriculture minister and he has indicated that they probably would not share on a sixty-forty split for funding for the cull cow program, but Ontario was looking at opportunities to perhaps put funding toward a slaughter facility. I think it is really important, as the member has indicated, for our dairy industry especially, to meet the need in the killing process.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:10 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Steckle Liberal Huron—Bruce, ON

Mr. Chair, would my colleague be able to comment on what kind of commentary the international review panel had in its deliberations? I think that decision has come out. It is now public. Would she have access to that information? If there is that information, could she divulge it to the House this evening?

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:15 p.m.

Liberal

Rose-Marie Ur Liberal Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Mr. Chair, with the good, efficient staff that I have, I was presented with an update from the Canadian Cattlemen's Association on this report favourable toward Canada's position. The report emphasized the integrated nature of the North American cattle industry and said the United States cannot dismiss the Washington State case by considering it an imported case. The international report calls upon the United States to demonstrate leadership in trade matters by adopting import and export policies in accordance with international standards, thus encouraging the discontinuation of irrational trade barriers when countries identify their first case of BSE.

That is a part of it. Tune in next time.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:15 p.m.

Bloc

Marcel Gagnon Bloc Champlain, QC

Mr. Chair, I have listened since the debate began earlier this evening. I also asked a few questions. I realize the scope of the problem.

I was in farming for many years. I participated in farm unions. I am the son of a farmer. I have had the opportunity to talk about, discuss and be involved in the farm union movement to try to resolve major problems facing Quebec farms. It seems to me, however, that this kind of problem is infinitely more serious than those we had in the past.

Our agricultural system worked relatively well, at least in Quebec. Since 1993, we also had a relatively safe system in terms of animal health and quality. Everything is jeopardized because one mad cow was found in western Canada. Because Quebec's different and distinct nature is not recognized, many Quebec producers are once again paying the price for something totally beyond their control.

Quebec produces 50% of all milk in Canada. With regard to cull cows, Quebec experiences 50% of the problems affecting dairy herds. Why, for example, were some regions not spared?

Imagine the farmer in Champlain who is faced with the problem of a mad cow some 3,000 kilometres away from him. There is no chance of contamination. And yet, no one has ever wanted to work on a regional basis and recognize the regional differences so as to at least save some money. This region might suffer less, leaving more money for those more affected. Still the idea of working in such a system was rejected.

All evening, hon. members have been talking about borders, travel, opening borders, opening markets. I notice that we are forgetting that, in our system of agriculture, at the bottom of it all, there are human beings. They have worked all their lives to establish viable and pleasant businesses, some of which are worth a lot of money.

A farmer came to my office and told me he was a millionaire. He was getting ready for retirement. His pension fund was in his beef cattle, in his animals. He was 59 years old and a millionaire and then, suddenly, he was worth nothing. That is something. That is major stroke of bad luck. I think that we are forgetting the human being in all our discussions.

The human being is at the base of this industry, the the most important one in the country. Agriculture is the industry that creates the most jobs in the country. It is the one that keeps our food supply somewhat secure.

Just imagine for a moment if we lost our agricultural industry. I know this impossible, but it can certainly be severely damaged. Imagine for a moment if we relied on foreign countries for food. What would if cost us? This industry does not concern only the farmer, it concerns all consumers and citizens. When agriculture thrives in a country, the country thrives. In Quebec, when agriculture thrives, so does Quebec because it relies on agriculture to generate jobs.

I believe it was the member for Yellowhead who mentioned earlier how many jobs are created by agriculture. It is significant.

I do not understand how we can abandon the farmers in such a crisis. After they have spent their entire lives working for themselves, of course, but primarily for others, I do not understand why this country cannot come up with the necessary funds to help them get through such a crisis.

I witnessed the Saguenay flood and the ice storm. You heard about it since the ice storm hit Ontario too. I went to see the Red River in Manitoba when it flooded. I went to see what was going on. During all these major disasters, which are called “acts of God” and for which we are not responsible, the government provided help because the individual could not get through it alone.

Currently, the government is not helping enough. It is simple. There are farmers committing suicide. This is happening in Quebec and must be happening elsewhere. I know farmers who had had enough, who were so worried that they took their own lives. This is starting to become a major crisis.

Let us please stop thinking that a trip to Japan, a trip to Korea, discussions with the Americans, or the lack of them, will solve the problem in the medium and long term. Come on, now. What has to be done, of course, is to first solve the problem in the medium and long term.

Someone has said that the problem is not the mad cow crisis, but the mad policy crisis. There are those who are suffering as a result of our policy, who are paying the price. The ones who are suffering do not deserve to have to pay that price, because they are the ones who supply us with food, who create jobs, those we have to trust to develop this country.

I have trouble understanding all this. For example, Quebec has not used the cattle feed that was the cause of the mad cow problem since 1993. Yet, despite the sacrifices made by farmers since 1993, paying a little more to fatten their cattle, how in heaven's name can they now be having to cope with the problem of one mad cow when the cow is 3,000 kilometres away? It makes no sense.

The government will have to pay for this. Not only pay for it, but also make the necessary effort to settle this awful problem. It is not up to a farmer in his twilight years, thinking of retirement but seeing his retirement savings totally depleted because we have not looked after business, because for some reason or other the Americans quite simply want to make us pay.

This system makes no sense. The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food must do what it takes. I too am calling for an emergency debate, if that is not what this one is.

People in our area, and people all over Canada and Quebec, are counting on us to help them get through these terribly hard times.

I am therefore asking the new Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food, whom I have heard described as being more competent than the last, to sit down with the rest of cabinet and see that the necessary funding is in place to help people get through this crisis.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Liberal

David Kilgour Liberal Edmonton Southeast, AB

Mr. Chair, I was very moved by my colleague's remarks. However, if I understand correctly, he is suggesting that the government pay for the problem with the dairy farmers in Quebec.

In his opinion, how much will this cost?

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marcel Gagnon Bloc Champlain, QC

Mr. Chair, if your house goes up in flames, you have insurance to cover it. In Quebec, we had crop insurance. We also had an entire management system to assist farmers. However, when damage is caused by an outside party, for instance, if someone sets your house on fire, no one asks how much it will cost to restore it.

When the ice storm hit, did anyone ask how much it cost to repair the damage nature had caused? It is the same for the Saguenay flood. We reached into our pockets and the governments invested the necessary amount of money to help people get through it.

I have not calculated how much it will cost. However, one thing is certain; the current crisis will cost Canadian and Quebec agriculture a fortune in the medium and long terms. People need more help. When a person loses $500 an animal and it is not his fault or responsibility, it does not matter how much it costs. He should be compensated.

The government dipped into the employment insurance fund with its $45 billion. Maybe we could take half a billion, a billion or a billion and a half from the fund to help farmers get through this crisis that they did not bring on themselves and for which they are not to blame. It is the least we can do to show support.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gerald Keddy Progressive Conservative South Shore, NS

Mr. Chair, I listened very closely to my colleague from the Bloc and I could not help but wonder if he would not agree that this is a more complicated issue than simply a regional issue. If it were only a regional issue, we could say that all the grass fed beef in Nova Scotia should be excluded. There is a good argument for that but that is not how the market system works. We have a North American market.

The fact is we now have had a mad cow, regardless of where that cow came from, in the U.S. and we have had a mad cow in Canada. That means we have the problem on both sides of the border, and there is absolutely no reason for this border to be closed.

I see the Minister of Agriculture here and I would hope that is the system on which he is working.

In the meantime, there are a number of things that we should be able to do right here in Canada, and we can actually start right now. I see the Minister of Agriculture smiling but I think this is a fairly serious issue. We can start by taking the spinal columns out of the food chain. We can remove the brain out of the food chain. That could be done tomorrow. We do not have to wait for that.

It is a government issue and it will require government money, but it will also require determination. If we speak to farmers in the country, at first they were frustrated. Then they were simply suffering from despair. Today they are angry because they see their livelihoods simply washed out through the barn doors. They absolutely do not see anything, not a mention in the throne speech and not a mention from the government on some type of responsible action.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:25 p.m.

Bloc

Marcel Gagnon Bloc Champlain, QC

Mr. Chair, I agree completely with the hon. member. I think that the way I expressed myself might have given the impression that I was only talking about my region. All Canadian farmers are faced with this problem.

It is true that there was no mention of this in the throne speech. It is true that this problem seems to be going right over the government's head. I think we must spend whatever is necessary. Government spending has increased by 39% in the past five years, which amounts to several billion dollars. We must invest the money needed to help farmers get through this crisis. Farmers must not be the only ones paying and losing their livelihood.

I am certain that the hon. member also knows people who, near the end of their lives, realize that their pension fund has become worthless because of a system for which they are not responsible. In my opinion, we can help these people more.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague from Champlain for his excellent speech. I will begin by saying that the subject we are debating tonight is a very important one, and one of great concern to the farmers in my riding, particularly those in Côte de Beaupré or Île d'Orléans. Many of them have come to my riding office to tell me so.

I must tell my colleague that I have noted the main thrust of his speech. Having followed the debates since 7:15 p.m., I have noticed he is one of the few to stress the human aspect of this crisis, its impact on farm families.

In this connection, I would like to hear my colleague from Champlain comment on an open letter from the Jean Guilbert family of Saint-Maurice, which was printed on the rural voices page of the newspaper La Terre de chez nous .

I am not sure whether Saint-Maurice will be in my colleague's future riding, because we all know he will be the member for Saint-Maurice—Champlain after the merger. I would like to read him excerpts from this letter to get his quick his comments on them.

The Jean Guilbert family of Saint-Maurice writes, “In Quebec, there are children who are leaving for school in the morning with their heads filled with worries about their families because of debts and the imminent danger of losing the farm to creditors, a farm where they live and where they often work every day. After years of sacrifice, of working seven days a week, just about 365 days a year, to get their farm up and running, their parents are now seeing their farms on their last days”.

Saint-Maurice has one of the highest concentrations of dairy farms anywhere in Quebec. I would therefore like to hear what my colleague has to say about this.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

Bloc

Marcel Gagnon Bloc Champlain, QC

Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague for his question. In fact, I am very familiar with the farm mentioned in the open letter. Saint-Maurice will be in my riding.

The point I wanted to make when I raised this issue earlier is that the human aspect is often forgotten. I know these producers, as well as just how hard they worked. From one day to the next, they find themselves in debt, although they are not at fault in the least. Others are responsible, not them. It is extremely frustrating.

One of my colleagues, another member, had asked me to meet with a group of producers. I referred to a suicide. In our region, one producer had had enough, and he killed himself before the meeting. We met with producers to talk to them, to try to encourage them and tell them that the House was going to debate the matter and try to get the government to reflect in order to provide some security so people can get through this crisis.

There is always a human aspect in this kind of issue. We must not forget that, as I said earlier, agriculture is probably the industry that creates the most jobs and doubtless the most important jobs. We live on this earth, but this earth also feeds us. We need someone to farm it.

Once again, I ask the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food to do the impossible to provide security to the producers who need it.

Bovine Spongiform EncephalopathyGovernment Orders

10:35 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Chairman, I did not finish reading the excerpt from this open letter.

The Jean Guilbert family from Saint-Maurice says, “Sometimes it costs more to have a specialist treat the animal than what the animal is worth on the market. No, the cow is not mad, it is its protector who is desperate and who has been wondering for months where the profit margin is going, between the paltry sum he receives from the sale of his animals and the high price consumers pay at the grocery store. Think about that before judging the person who slaughtered a cow on television out of desperation”.

I would like my colleague's comments on this point.