Debates of March 30th, 2004

National Security

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, one of the very first things that the new government did upon taking office was to consolidate all of the activities required for national security. I am delighted to say that we have created the new post of Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness. We have put it under the Deputy Prime Minister who is an outstanding member of the cabinet.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that the AG's report condemns the government's handling of terrorists and criminals. There are huge security gaps, 25,000 passports lost or stolen, a two and a half month backlog for fingerprint analysis, and thousands of airport personnel with possible criminal associations.

Once again, why should Canadians trust the government after 10 years of these failures?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the Auditor General for her report. In assessing our progress since September 11, 2001, the Auditor General is dealing with an issue that is not only important to this government but important to all Canadians.

I would remind the hon. Leader of the Opposition that far from condemning the actions of the Government of Canada since September 11, it is worth noting that the Auditor General said “...Canada's performance managing national security in the past two and a half years is consistent with that of our--”

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Stephen Harper, Canadian Alliance, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister made a big deal about reorganizing national security. Nevertheless, there are huge security gaps, 25 passports lost or stolen, a two and a half month backlog for fingerprint analysis, and thousands of airport personnel with possible criminal associations.

Once again, why should we believe that things are going to be better now?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, let me reassure the hon. member and all Canadians that we have taken significant steps since September 11 to enhance the safety and security of Canadians.

For example, we have increased our intelligence gathering and sharing capabilities. We have put in place smart borders where we are facilitating the safe and efficient movement of goods and people across our borders. We have provided additional resources to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police so it can develop further integrated law enforcement actions, be it against terrorist activities or organized crime.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General's report highlights the sheer incompetence of the government when it comes to tackling key policing and security challenges. Only the Liberals would dream up a $39 million system to gather electronic fingerprints and then forget to fund and establish the system needed to analyze them. The result is a two and a half month fingerprint backlog.

My question is for the Minister of Public Safety. Why has the RCMP not been given the necessary funds to establish the real time identification system? Why has it not been given the resources to do its job?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP has been given the resources. If the member were to check with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police I believe he would find it is in a position to go to requests for proposals any day now.

[Kevin Sorenson, Canadian Alliance, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the RCMP has become synonymous with the word backlog. There is a backlog in the RCMP forensic lab. There is a backlog in the forensic fingerprinting lab. There is a backlog in the RCMP's database of lost and stolen passports. There is a backlog in the firearms registry. I could go on.

Under-funding, under-resourcing and just plain Liberal neglect has left the RCMP's cupboard bare. After a decade of mismanagement, why should Canadians believe the Liberal government?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, as I have indicated, since September 11, 2001 there has been a substantial infusion of new resources into the enhancement of our safety and security in this country. In fact, included in that is additional resources for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

As I have already indicated for the hon. member, we understand that real time identification is important, which is why the RCMP will be requesting proposals in the very near future in terms of putting that system in place. When that system is in place we will have the world's finest security system.

Sponsorship Program

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor, Norman Steinberg, told the committee that the 2000 audit report on the sponsorship program pointed out not five administrative problems but five “serious and unacceptable errors” and that he informed the Treasury Board about them himself.

Given that he was the vice-president of the Treasury Board, how can the Prime Minister continue to claim that he was unaware of the sponsorship scandal when he knew, did nothing, and was complicit?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it was the Deputy Minister of Public Works himself who used the term “administrative problems”.

Also, it was the Deputy Minister of Public Works who said that there was a 39-point action plan to fix those administrative problems.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it seems as though several steps in the plan were skipped, judging by the result.

I am looking at this report. Collapse of controls, non-compliance with Treasury Board policies—of which he was vice-president—lack of transparency; the findings of the 2000 audit are devastating. And Alfonso Gagliano, the Privy Council, the Prime Minister's Office, and the Treasury Board were all informed by Norman Steinberg, who, I remind the House, was the auditor.

Will the Prime Minister admit that, as vice-president of the Treasury Board, he was aware of the sponsorship scandal, that he was part of the gang, that he—like the others—did nothing, and that this is called cabinet complicity?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the answer to the question is no.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has said he realized only in the summer of 2002 that the sponsorship scandal was far more than mere administrative errors. That was in the summer of 2002.

How can he claim that he realized this only in 2002, after his own admission yesterday that he read the summary of the internal audit in 2000, which reported very serious flaws in the program and rules that were broken. How, after reading that, could he not know?

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, as the Prime Minister has mentioned previously, as well as many others in the House, it was progressively from 2000 with the audit, which was an internal audit found by the auditor of public works identifying serious administrative errors, setting out a 39 point action plan to correct it and progressively, through internal and forensic audits, eventually a reference to the Auditor General by public works in 2000 on the Groupaction matters that led to her first report and to references to the RCMP and then progressively to where we are with the number of inquiries going on today.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, they make me laugh with their talk of the 39 point action plan. After that plan, Pierre Tremblay, Alfonso Gagliano's former chief of staff, took over, and things got worse. That is the reality.

How can the Prime Minister, then finance minister, explain that, despite the 2000 report of which he was aware, he continued for another two years, in his finance portfolio, to pump tens of millions into a program that had been denounced by the department's internal auditor? Let him explain that to us.

[Stephen Owen, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, progressively from 2000 with an internal audit from public works, that led to further forensic audits and the closing down of the communications branch in public works in September 2001. With a reform of the sponsorship program by the current Minister of Finance when he was minister of public works, commissions were no longer paid. A whole set of reforms were set in place leading, eventually, after RCMP investigations and after the Auditor General's report, to the cancellation of the sponsorship program.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have yet another Auditor General's report that shows the incompetence of the government. The immigration system is in such disarray that the Auditor General could not even reconcile the information. We have officials who cannot get information on the 25,000 passports that have been lost or stolen. We have fingerprint equipment that only half works.

A system that does not work leaves the door open for racial profiling. It targets people unfairly.

How does the minister account for the massive failure of this system that leaves people so vulnerable to racial profiling?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, a passport is an extremely important document for our citizens and our country. As every member in the House knows, many members opposite have been complaining to me about the length of time the passport office takes to issue new passports.

The problems, to which the Auditor General quite rightly adverted, have been addressed by the passport office. Immediate communications are made with the police. All passports that are lost or stolen are immediately deactivated for travel. We have addressed these issues.

We appreciate the Auditor General's comments. We will continue to strive to ensure that our passport is the most secure and best document in the world.

Health

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, today the Auditor General's report also points out the government's appalling disregard for health protection around medical devices. Worse, she notes that Health Canada knew of the risks to human health but did not do anything.

Thanks to the Liberals, patients do not know if surgical masks, blood test kits, heart valves or breast implants are safe.

How can the Prime Minister expect anyone to believe Liberal rhetoric on health care when the government cannot even ensure our health care system's basic equipment is safe?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Health Canada fully accepts the findings and the recommendations of the report. We are moving forward to further improve the regulatory program for medical devices.

Health Canada has already acted on many of these recommendations, such as initiating a postmarket inspection strategy and creating an interactive database so that the public knows which devices are authorized for sale.

Health Canada is developing plans to respond to the recommendations that have not already been addressed.

National Security

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Auditor General confirmed today what the Conservative Party has been saying for years. At our points of entry, terrorist watch lists do not include the 25,000 passports lost or stolen every year, nor the 162,000 Canada-wide arrest warrants from the CPIC database.

Our customs agents are the front line of defence, keeping terrorists and criminals out of Canada. It has been three years since 9/11 and the Liberals have not addressed this problem.

When will our border agents get this critical information so that they can do their jobs?

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I could repeat, for the benefit of the hon. member, what I said in response to an earlier question. We appreciate the Auditor General's report but we have taken action already to address every one of her concerns. Reports of lost passports go straight to the police and are deactivated. No stolen or lost passport can be travelled on. It is not valid for international travel. All stolen or blank passports are immediately communicated to the police.

We have dealt with these issues. The government and the department treats these issues very seriously. We will make sure the Canadian passport is the best and most secure travel document in the world.

[Rahim Jaffer, Canadian Alliance, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has failed to address the problem of our customs agents getting access to this information. They clearly do not get that information at the borders.

Lost and stolen passports are a major security concern. Under the current process it takes an average of 70 days to exchange information between the passport office and the RCMP. If the Mounties cannot read the handwriting on the forms, they send the paperwork back to DFAIT. In this day and age, they are still using an outdated paper system.

How can we trust the government to protect Canadians when it has left this ridiculous system in place for so long?