Debates of March 7th, 2005

The Budget

[David Smith, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

No, listen, I know what I am talking about, because I do some in my riding.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

You do not know your history.

[David Smith, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Listen, Madam, you will have an opportunity to vent later.

My question is this: I would like to know if my colleague opposite recognizes that it is better to work as we are doing, that is in cooperation with the Province of Quebec. For example, let us take the family program on which we just signed a fine agreement. There are points for the province, guaranteed funds, so that Quebec will be able to develop its own program. As for day care services, Quebec has done some extraordinary work. This is all very well; we recognize this. We will participate with the province. We will transfer funds to Quebec so that it can invest. Is this the road that he would take or does he think, as a sovereignist, that he would prefer to have his own country?

[Christian Simard, Bloc, Beauport, QC]

Madam Speaker, the member's self-importance is equalled only by his ignorance of the files. It is unbelievable!

Until recently, I worked as director of a group of technical resources for a federation of housing cooperatives. You do not know that housing is firstly a provincial jurisdiction. Well then...

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

Order, please. I would ask the hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou to direct his comments to the chair.

[Christian Simard, Bloc, Beauport, QC]

Madam Speaker, I was indeed directing my remarks to you. However, the call would also have to be made to our colleague, who was engaging directly with us, a few seconds ago.

The colleague, unfortunately, does not know what he is talking about. Indeed, where I come from, people say that he has his foot in his mouth. This matter involves $3 billion.. Indeed, we want a transfer in the area of housing. Then, we will be in a position to develop, in Quebec, consistent, comprehensive and interesting policies without having to beg for crumbs from the federal government.

Nonetheless, this government is still there. We pay it 25% of our taxes. We are entitled to have it invest properly in the right places and to have it not hoard the money.

The member talks about partnerships with the Quebec government in the area of affordable housing. He is not aware—maybe he is, but I do not know which planet he lives on—of what will happen in the next budget of the Government of Quebec if there is no announcement in the federal budget. Quebec invests 50% of the funds. However, if the federal does not invest the other 50%, what will happen?

[David Smith, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thousands of dollars are already there.

[Christian Simard, Bloc, Beauport, QC]

Pardon me, but it is all committed, all spent. If the member is unfamiliar with his files, he should at least listen. When someone does not know something, he should listen and try to learn.

Consequently, even if there was an announcement today in the budget, it will take at least 18 months before actual delivery. To this end, the government has made no announcements. Quebec has made exemplary strides in providing social and affordable housing. Now, it cannot act alone since, unfortunately, the amount was not transferred to the Quebec government. There are groups everywhere—my colleague from Terrebonne—Blainville went on a tour with me—proposing innovative and creative projects. These people are helping the most vulnerable members of our society.

[An hon. member]

There are some in the Pontiac region.

[Christian Simard, Bloc, Beauport, QC]

There are some throughout Quebec. These are creative projects that require nothing more than community entrepreneurship. This is called the social economy. Here is another concept that must be much too evolved for my colleague opposite. It is an economy created with the people for the people, not for a profit, but to allow workers to live with dignity, to provide social and priority services to people, such as a roof over their heads. This is very noble and dignified.

A government has to make budgetary choices that respect this nobility and dignity. However, this government is too involved in its political calculations, its vendettas against Quebec and its desire not to be effective but to record zero deficits and hide surpluses at the expense of the poorest members of our society.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to budget 2005.

While listening to the member from the Bloc I wondered if it was petty politics that was getting in the way in terms of affordable housing. I know that in the province of Ontario we have a Canada-Ontario affordable housing agreement that is working very well and which my constituents are taking full advantage of. We have a number of very good affordable housing projects that are emerging in Etobicoke North.

I would like to set the stage for the discussion on the budget. We heard a lot this past weekend at our Liberal convention about promises made and promises kept. It seems to me that this is exactly what budget 2005 is doing. It is delivering on a whole range of promises.

I will speak about the budget in that perspective. First, I thought I would prepare a bit of the context. If we look at this budget we have to realize that this is the eighth consecutive surplus budget that this government has brought in. It is something that is almost unsurpassed. It is something that the world is looking at and marvelling at in terms of the industrialized nations of the world. We are setting all sorts of new records. In fact, we are achieving that also with great economic growth and job creation.

While we do not like to see any unemployment, it is at the lowest level in many years at around 7%. Growth has been consistent at around 3%. We are paying down the debt. The government has paid down roughly $65 billion and we still have a long way to go, but in doing that the government is not having to service the debt to the tune of some $3 billion each and every year. The important point that I think we must make is that this is $3 billion in savings each and every year. More will be forthcoming as we pay down more debt.

Therefore that in excess of $3 billion a year is being redeployed to health care, post-secondary education, affordable housing, the military and toward enhancing our security. We must be mindful of these savings. We have a very positive fiscal environment in Canada.

What we must be somewhat concerned about is the economy in the United States where we have budgetary deficits and we have the risk of the trade deficit, the current account deficit. That is something we must be mindful of, which is why I am glad our finance minister put some contingency and some reserves into the budget. With 86% of our exports going to the United States, we must be careful that its economy is working on all cylinders.

As I have said before, this budget is delivering on many commitments. I would now like to come to discuss the budget in that context. I will start with the government laying out the fact that we did not want to get back into debt. We did not want to get into deficits again. We said in the throne speech that our objective was to reduce the debt to GDP ratio to 25% within 10 years.

I can say that in this budget we are looking at a debt to GDP ratio that is expected to decline to 38.8% in 2004-05, down from a high of 68.4% in 1995-96. The government has indicated that it is committed to achieving its target of reducing our debt to GDP ratio to 25% by 2014-15. We are already down to under 40%, which is delivering on that promise.

The government talked about the virtuous circle of budgetary surpluses, high employment, strong economic growth and that was having some very positive effects.

The government in this budget has said there will be a balanced budget or better in 2004-05 and in each of the next five fiscal years. That would make 13 consecutive budgetary surpluses, which is almost unprecedented.

The budget also delivers on another commitment we made in our election platform and in the throne speech about a new deal for cities.

The budget would implement the government's pledge to share the equivalent of $5 billion worth of gas tax revenue over the next five years. When this is fully implemented it will equate to about $2 billion each and every year, a portion of the gas taxes going to cities and communities across Canada. That builds on the GST relief that the government provided to municipalities and communities.

In the city of Toronto, for example, the GST relief alone is providing $50 million each and every year. The province of Ontario will benefit, I am sure, in the order of some $700 billion once the sharing of gas taxes is fully implemented.

The government in its platform and in the throne speech talked about our commitment to the Kyoto accord and dealing with climate change. In this budget we are seeing something that I and others have argued for, which are some economic instruments, tax incentives and policies that will help Canadians and industry move toward the goal set out in the Kyoto accord. Part of that is $1 billion over five years to establish the clean fund to promote new technologies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

We also in this budget will be putting in $200 million over five years to support the sustainable energy, science and technology strategy and a further $300 million to green municipal funds. I could go on. There are other initiatives, including some money to provide incentives for the development of wind power. This is what I believe we need to do. We need to look at alternative energy sources so that we can meet our Kyoto targets.

I would like to see more in the area of community landfills. We take our garbage to landfills and methane gas is collected under the landfills, much of which goes straight into the atmosphere. We know that methane is about 20 times more damaging in terms of greenhouse gases and CO

2

. I am hoping this $1 billion fund, for example, will attract a number of proposals from municipalities so they can convert methane gas from landfills into electricity and avoid methane gas going into the environment.

In the throne speech we talked about strong investment being the primary generator of growth in good jobs for the future and the government fostering a good business and investment climate. In this budget we have continued on with the tax cuts that were made in the mini budget in 2000, a $100 billion in tax cuts. I know on the other side of the floor members say that was not a tax cut. I have news for them. That was the largest tax cut in Canadian history and we are building on that.

The budget is reducing, for example, the corporate surtax. In fact, the corporate surtax is being eliminated and the 21% general corporate income tax rate will be reduced to 19%, maintaining Canada's tax rate advantage relative to the U.S.

Why is it important that we have a competitive corporate tax environment? It is important because if we want to attract investment we need to make sure that our corporate tax environment is a healthy and competitive one. When we have investment, it creates jobs and that means more jobs for all Canadians. We have also moved closer to having capital cost allowance rates more aligned with the economic useful life of assets. As Martha Stewart would say, that is a good thing.

The government talked in the throne speech about opportunities to further reduce the tax burden on low and modest income families. What does this budget do? It delivers on that commitment. Now the amount of income that all Canadians may earn without paying federal income tax will increase to $10,000 by 2009. If my memory serves me correctly, that will take some 800,000 Canadians off the tax rolls.

We also said that we would develop policies to foster Canadian capabilities in enabling technologies, such as biotechnology, information technology and communications technology. There is a whole range of investments being made in budget 2005 that are delivering on that commitment, including a renewed investment of $165 million in Genome Canada.

Many companies in my riding of Etobicoke North are involved in biotechnology, genomics and proteomics. This is the road to the future. This is where the high paying, high value-added jobs will be created as we move forward into this next millennium.

I will go on with many of the commitments which our government is delivering on in budget 2005.

We said in the throne speech that Canadians have told their governments year after year to renew medicare, to stop the bickering and to work together. Well, guess what? Budget 2005 delivers a 10 year plan to strengthen health care with a $41 billion investment in new federal funding over 10 years. With that are greater accountability measures to make sure that the provinces report on their waiting times and on the results they are getting from the health care system so that people in Ontario can compare the value they are getting for their tax dollars in health care with what they are doing in Prince Edward Island or in Yukon.

We also said in the throne speech that the time had come for a truly national system of early learning and child care. Budget 2005 delivers on that commitment with a $5 billion investment over five years to build a national early learning and child care initiative. In my riding of Etobicoke North I have many women in particular who come to my riding office and say that they need day care because both parents are working and they need to take advantage of day care. Up until now we have not been able to do much because it required federal-provincial cooperation. Now the government has said that it will go it alone and just do it. I congratulate the government for doing that.

In the throne speech we said that Canada's seniors had earned the right to be treated with dignity and that as one step the government would increase the guaranteed income supplement for Canada's least well off seniors. In budget 2005 that is exactly what the government did. We increased the guaranteed income supplement which will make a big difference. I have many seniors in my riding of Etobicoke North on fixed incomes and this increase in the guaranteed income supplement will be very beneficial.

We said in the throne speech that we would foster cultural institutions and policies that aspire to excellence. In this budget 2005, $688 million over four years has been committed for the tomorrow starts today initiative. I know how important this is for a city like Toronto. I have been down to the national ballet school and have talked to the people with respect to the new opera building. This kind of support for our cultural institutions is important and it is important to the city of Toronto.

In the throne speech we talked about enhancing Canada's security and investing more in our military. I was very pleased to see that our government will be putting $7 billion in new budgetary funding over five years to the Department of National Defence to support a $12.8 billion cash investment in our Department of National Defence.

At the convention this weekend, my riding association, together with others, talked about putting Canada closer into the middle of the pack of the OECD countries in relation to military spending and what our NATO partners were doing. This type of investment does not quite get us in the middle of the pack but this goes a long way and it means that we can be peacemakers and peacekeepers around the world where we are very much respected.

In the area in which I am working now, national security and public safety, we said in the throne speech that we have these new security threats and Canada has to respond. This budget commits $1 billion over five years in support of key national security initiatives. I was very happy to see that. We have also made some significant investments in our international development assistance following up on a commitment that was made again in the throne speech.

I have hit just some of the budget highlights, but there are many other commitments we are delivering on in terms of the pledges we made to Canadians. When politicians make promises, whether they are federal politicians or provincial politicians, I think it is important that we live up to those promises, that we commit to those promises. If we say we are not going to increase taxes, then we do not increase taxes.

We have heard a lot from the premier of Ontario and the Ontario finance minister, Greg Sorbara. In one sense I can sympathize with them, because in 1993 when this government came to office here in Ottawa we inherited a $42 billion deficit created by the Tories.

We had a huge challenge. In fact, the international community said that our country was a fiscal basket case. What did we do? We did not look around for excuses. We did not look around for scapegoats. We got down to the job at hand. Our finance minister at the time, now the Prime Minister, made sure that we had a consensus of Canadians. He built that consensus. We eliminated our deficit in a few short years and we have built from strength to strength from there.

We have to accept our responsibilities. We have to act with maturity. We have to commit ourselves to the task at hand. We cannot look for scapegoats; that is what our government did not do. We got down to the business of dealing with the deficit. In that vein, I should say that if we look at the amount of transfers going to the province of Ontario over the last 10 years, we will see that Ontario's share of the health and social transfers has risen from about 36% of total transfers to nearly 39%. I think that is movement forward.

As I recall, it was the government members from Ontario on this side who fought to make sure that the Ontario transfers were on a per capita basis. In fact, because of the policies of the Tories they were moving in another direction and that would have created an uneven playing field for the citizens of Ontario. Members from Ontario on this side fought for the principle that transfers should be based on per capita. That is why the Ontario share of the health and social transfer has risen over that same period.

I empathize to some extent with one of the points that the premier and his finance minister Greg Sorbara are making as they get on with the job of focusing on the deficit in Ontario and dealing with expenditure and programs instead of reaching out and trying to lay the blame somewhere else. I am not sure that is the kind of mature responsible action we like to see, but I do empathize with one point they make, and that has to do with the settlement services for new immigrants.

I have raised this issue with the ministers responsible. I think we have to understand that in Toronto and Ontario we get a very large percentage of the new immigrants to Canada. We are blessed with that. My riding is hugely multicultural. I tease my constituents that I never have to travel because it is all here. I can go to events with the Guyanese or with people from Ghana, South Asia, Somalia, the Balkans, Italy and eastern Europe. They are all in my riding, so I can just stay there and watch this parade going on. Immigration raises some challenges with respect to settlement. It raises issues around language and culture. I think that is something we do need to fight for.

I would also like to see something done with respect to the airport rents, because I am concerned about the Greater Toronto Airports Authority and other airports across Canada. We need to do something to help our airline industry remain competitive. I would like to see something in the next budget on that.

I was very pleased to see the excise tax on jewellery being phased out. It is something that our House of Commons finance committee argued for and the finance minister delivered on.

In the next budget, I would also like to see something more on capital gains, on securities donated to private charitable organizations.

Apart from those small points, I think the budget was an excellent one. It delivered on all the commitments that we made to Canadians. There will be more in the next budget and the budget beyond that as we build upon these strengths.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Madam Speaker, I listened closely to the presentation by my hon. colleague across the floor. I do agree with one point and that is the responsibility of members of Parliament and all politicians to keep their promises.

I want to ask a question regarding our seniors and the increase in the guaranteed income supplement. The member made a passing comment indicating that seniors deserve our respect, that they have earned it, and we all acknowledge that.

I was excited to see that increase until I did the math. I want to ask the member about it. If we do the math, we see that $18 is going to end up in our seniors' pockets. Can the member in all good conscience say that will meet their needs? These people have given their lives to our country. We need to honour them.

I think most of us here have parents in that age group. We need to honour and respect them. As for making an announcement that an increase will be provided and then making it an increase of just $18, is this the way to respect our seniors? We need to provide an increase. This $18 increase will not cover their increased costs for rent, hydro, gasoline or their medical costs. Can the member in all good conscience say that giving them this $18 will solve their problems? Can he say that this is the way to respect our seniors?

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am not going to quibble over dollar amounts, but my understanding is that the increase for single seniors will be $36 and for senior couples it will be $58.

The member does make a good point; it is not a significant amount in reality. I wish the government could do more in a whole range of areas, but the reality is that we have a certain fiscal framework.

I do not know if the member realizes that even those increases, however modest he might think they are, impact enormously on the government's expenditures. It is the same when the personal exemption is increased. Raising it by the amount we have takes an enormous amount to generate that kind of benefit. I hear what the member is saying, that there are other areas we could look at in terms of old age security. If we look at increasing the old age security generally, we will see that the numbers are even more numbing.

I think the member has made a good point, but I am sure that these amounts will be well received by seniors who are getting the guaranteed income supplement. These are the seniors with very low incomes. I am sure that as we move forward we can do more. I would like to see us also deal with the clawback. We do not have time to get into that now, but it focuses more on middle income seniors. I think it creates some anomalies.

I hope that in future budgets we can build on some of the things we have done in this budget.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like the debate on the budget to start over. I have been listening to speeches since this afternoon and I could certainly talk for twenty minutes or so on it.

The Minister of National Defence, among others, has told us that the Liberals have achieved fiscal balance for the past seven years. I do not see things the same way. For me, balance is when two things are of equal weight on a scale. But what has been happening here has been a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul, or rather Jean to pay Ralph, who has been awash in money for a long time. There has been no attempt to redistribute the money to those who really need it.

I think that this government is totally out of touch with reality. Unfortunately, it must be admitted, the working class, that is those who need help, has been totally ignored by this government. The Liberals have forgotten all about the country they are living in.

Take, for example, the committee that has looked into employment insurance. It was made up of Liberal MPs and members of all the parties and came up with eight unanimous recommendations. My colleague has already mentioned it. There were twenty other recommendations as well by the majority. But this government has never addressed the issue, nor has it respected the decision of a parliamentary committee. This makes no sense. It defies committee recommendations yet claims to present a balanced budget.

Paying off the debt is secondary. A debt is, in my opinion, the inability to earn enough to pay off what is owed. This is not the case with Canada. There is such a huge surplus. The provinces and the unemployed have been strangled to such an extent that surpluses abound. The unemployed need money. The regions have lost in excess of $66 million. The budget is spread over five years. It is the first time I have ever seen such a thing—and I was not born yesterday.

Are the Liberals prepared to guarantee that they will not change this budget when next year comes? That is what I wonder.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou for his question.

I find his question a little difficult to comprehend. I think he was discussing the technical advisory committee for persons with disabilities. In fact, some of the recommendations made by that advisory committee really run into problems in terms of provincial and territorial jurisdiction, such as the disabilities supports, income support and labour market programming, which are primarily in the area of provincial jurisdiction.

Nevertheless, I am told the government is working with the provinces and territories to try to reach some agreement on that. In fact, in the budget we have introduced a number of additional measures with respect to persons with disabilities and they build on many of the measures that have been introduced over many years.

In response to the member's question, I think the budget delivers many measures that assist low income Canadians. The tax reductions are targeted at low income Canadians and middle income Canadians. In fact, because of these measures, thousands and thousands of Canadians will no longer have to pay any tax.

There was discussion before about there being nothing about housing mentioned in the budget. The government has responded in a very big way with affordable housing and also with many initiatives to deal with the homeless.

Are we happy with the level of child poverty or poverty in general? Of course not. That is why the government is very active in trying to build a very sustainable economy and a good fiscal framework so that more jobs, more investment and more income can be generated and so that more can be done for people of low and modest incomes, people with disabilities and the homeless.

I think that on balance in Canada we have a very high standard of living generally. We continue to increase our standard of living. We are envied around the world, in fact, for the lifestyle that we have in Canada, but of course we can do more and I am sure that the government will in the years ahead.

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

It being 6:15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith all questions necessary to dispose of the amendment to the amendment now before the House.

The question is on the subamendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the subamendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

All those in favour of the subamendment will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Hon. Jean Augustine)]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment to the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)

[The Speaker]

I decalre the amendment to the amendment negatived.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.