House of Commons Hansard #89 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was sex.

Topics

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would appreciate the member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell elaborating on the circumstances. It is certainly a very important issue. I know there were certain suggestions made to the committee as to how we might address this. Why was this matter not dealt with as part of the security arrangements in the first issue?

Clearly, members of Parliament were at risk of being interfered with in their activities in both chambers and it would appear to me that discussions of security arrangements should have included the interests of parliamentarians in the first instance. Could the member advise the House whether there was some discussion on that matter?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is perfectly correct. That is the problem in the first place. In other words, everyone has said we must secure Parliament Hill. They forgot the second part of the sentence, for who? Obviously, Parliament Hill is for parliamentarians. That is why we are called that way. Except that whoever did the security arrangements did not seem to be aware of the second component. We must protect the place. There is a security element, but for who?

For instance, we were not protecting this chamber because the President was coming to give a speech here. Obviously that was not the issue. We were protecting the Parliament Buildings because they and their occupants needed this kind of protection, except that the occupant or the component thereof seemed to have been forgotten by someone in authority.

Security had never been informed that there was a security badge for an MP which is for quick identification. I know it is not official, but it is our quick identification system. We have a lapel pin and our official security card given to us by the Speaker. All of these things were not recognized.

One thing I forgot to mention is that security had a whole slew of accepted security cards. When our colleagues went to security, they said “I want access to the building. Here is my security card”. Security had a whole tableau of various security cards, such as the press security card, the Prime Minister's staff security card, but not one for MPs. It was not even on the matrix for security to compare. As far as it was concerned, the parliamentary security card was not a valid security card to enter Parliament. That is absolutely ridiculous. It explains to what extent people goofed in that regard. There is no other way of calling it.

I hope that these measures have now been rectified. I expect that someone in command, because ultimately the RCMP is to coordinate with the other bodies, will coordinate with them to ensure that they all recognize what a parliamentary security badge is in the future. It is to be expected that members of Parliament, providing they can be properly identified with or without their security credentials, need access to this place. We want to have access to this place at any time. That is guaranteed by parliamentary privilege when we are in session.

Of course, not only were we in session, it was an actual sitting day and a time of sitting when the incidents took place. Arguably, it was an even higher threshold that everyone must live with. Those are the concerns. They really must be respected by everyone in authority.

One final element is the security on the Hill. I referred to the House and Senate. I do not know how they do it, but the security services people memorize the pictures and photographs of MPs better than I can and I have been around here longer than most. There are still a few colleagues who are sometimes a little harder for me to recognize. The security service has mastered that very well.

The RCMP officers who are here on a regular basis can see us through the tinted glass of our car at 20 or 30 yards and somehow manage to recognize us that way too. They are pretty good at this as well. It is not the division of the RCMP that takes care of Parliament Hill that has a problem. I think it is quite efficient in recognizing us.

The problem does not seem to be there. The problem I think has to do with wherever there is this bridging of authority between someone in the RCMP and the coordination of other police forces that come in to support them when we have major incidents such as this.

I think it is on these occasions that the shortcomings are really obvious. For instance, if I can talk about the security offered to MPs, we are all offered a kit when we are elected. There is a little card that we keep in our wallet, or wherever we want to have it. There are these stickers that we put on our telephones at home that has the telephone number of the RCMP in case we get threatening phone calls or have some other regrettable incidents. I had one at my home recently, as some members will know, although I did not raise it in this House. It was an attempt to stop me from leaving my home to come here to sit while we were in session. I did not raise it under that rubric at the time. The authorities took care of that, but I certainly did not raise it here as an issue of contempt of Parliament, although I suppose I could have.

However, the point I am making very clearly today is that the coordination needs to be done far better before we ever have a tragic event such as a crucial vote or members being unable to participate in a decision of the House. As we can see, this could be a very important issue in the future.

We have right now a House that is divided in a number of ways. We have essentially half of the House on one side respecting the wish of the voters, in terms of making this Parliament work, and one half of the House who see a public opinion poll and get rather excited at that proposition quite needlessly because the Canadian public does not want them to go to the polls. We see the threats that are being made there. We must ensure that these security concerns are properly applied, given the context that we have before us today and what the outcome could be.

That is why these issues involving security, if wrongly approached, could have rather catastrophic effects. It is urgent for us to adopt this report and discuss it fully. I am looking forward to its adoption. I really hope that colleagues on all sides of the House will vote for this, so that we can better protect this great institution in the future. That is the point I wanted to make in reply to the hon. member's very good question.

We need to have a more coordinated approach outside and inside the building. I favour unifying the two security forces that regularly operate in these buildings, so that we would have a more coordinated approach in the future.

I do not want to speak too long on this, so now I will allow other members who no doubt want to contribute to this debate.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

Order, please. It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Beauport—Limoilou, Housing; the hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake, Government Appointments; the hon. member for Vaudreuil-Soulanges, Citizenship and Immigration.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, let me start off by stating that I am actually quite appalled at the hon. member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell for moving this concurrence motion today on a couple of fronts.

Because of his longevity in this place, and I have only been here 12 years, I have built up a considerable respect for the hon. member. During my remarks today I am going to reveal the true meaning of what he is up to by moving this concurrence motion in a committee report today. It certainly would be relevant to the debate today.

It is unfortunate that despite two or three instances during his remarks, both during his speech to this debate and during his response to one of his colleagues, he said that he did not want to use up too much House time and that he wanted to be rather succinct. He alluded to that. Yet, I did not have the opportunity to ask him a question because he only responded to one question which was quite a short question. The member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell then went on for some eight minutes to ensure that other people would not have the opportunity to ask him a question.

I wanted to allow him the opportunity to respond to a question rather than it being, as it is now, part of my remarks. It is ironic that a couple of weeks back, I do not have the exact date but I can certainly get it from Hansard , the member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell was the very individual who rose in this Chamber and chastised the official opposition for abusing, in his opinion, concurrence motions.

This is a relatively new process where any member can, as the hon. member is doing today, bring forward concurrence in a report from a standing committee. Yet, a couple of weeks ago he launched an impassioned rant in this place of how it was just absolutely an abuse of democracy for the official opposition to be using concurrence motions in this fashion despite the fact that some of the motions that we had brought forward were on extremely important subjects, for example, compensation for all victims of hepatitis C.

I do not think anyone from any of the four parties in this Chamber would argue that it is not an extremely important issue. It is something that the Conservative Party and its predecessors have raised many times in this and other Parliaments and we finally drove that to a vote under the new Standing Orders. In fact, on the very night of the vote the Liberal Party reversed its long-standing opposition to providing all victims of hepatitis C with compensation and made it unanimous by supporting the motion.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order with regard to relevance. Motion No. 21 deals with the infringement of rights of members of Parliament. At this point the member still has not made any reference to that. He is debating whether concurrence motions are good things or bad things. It is not relevant to the debate.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

The hon. House leader of the official opposition is presumably getting to that point, were you not?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I do not want any member of the House to think that this particular issue of the access to this House of Commons, to the Parliament Hill precinct, by members of Parliament from any party is not an important issue to me.

Despite the irrelevant question of relevance from the hon. Liberal member opposite, I had the advantage, unlike the member, of being present at the procedure and House affairs committee when we debated this very issue, which was brought forward by the hon. whip of the Bloc Québécois out of concern not only for his own access to the House and to the precinct during President Bush's visit, but for access by all members of Parliament from all parties.

I am not trying to make light of that issue at all by raising these other issues connected with what exactly is going on here today. It is only fair that the viewing public watching the proceedings today understand what is behind this. It is absolutely disgusting that the member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell would use this concurrence motion, the very procedure that he himself ranted against only a couple of weeks ago, saying, “This is awful. It is terrible that the official opposition would use this to delay the important business of the House”.

The House leader of the government has stated that he wants to bring forward Bill C-43, the budget bill. He wants to ensure that we have a vote on Bill C-38. Lo and behold, today is one of the days. This morning we started out by debating Bill C-38, the marriage legislation, the very legislation that the government, the Liberal Party, says it wants to get passed, yet it is on this very day we are debating Bill C-38 that the member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell actually moves his concurrence motion on this totally separate issue.

I think that what we are seeing today is nothing other than the Liberals' last desperate attempt to cling to power. Every procedure that we as the opposition have to attempt to hold the Liberal government accountable in this chamber is being thwarted by the Liberals and their government because they do not want to be held accountable.

What would my motion have been had we been debating it today? What about my concurrence in the procedure and House affairs committee report? The irony here as well is that the hon. member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell is the very chairman of the procedure and House affairs committee who actually came in on the Friday before the break week and introduced the 35th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs for which I wanted to move concurrence today.

What does that deal with? It deals with the fact that the government has taken away from all three opposition parties the wherewithal to have opposition days at this time. Normally we would have had one a couple of weeks ago. Normally the New Democratic Party would be having one on Wednesday, May 5; it was slated to have that day. None of them are happening now. The New Democratic Party was quite upset about it before, but now that it has cut this backroom deal, the secret deal that apparently is written on a napkin somewhere, somehow now those members do not mind supporting a corrupt Liberal government.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Is that how you guys ran the Airbus agreement?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

You forgot about the Airbus.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

It is only right that Canadians understand exactly what is happening here today when the government--

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

Order, please. Even though there is a microphone for the speaker and I have speakers to hear, I have trouble hearing.

The hon. House leader of the official opposition.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, as I said at the outset, this is an important issue that the whip for the Bloc Québécois raised and it was referred to the procedure and House affairs committee. We dealt with it there. The report has come back. The member for Glengarry—Prescott—Russell reported that back to the House, very similarly to the way he dealt with the motion I made at the procedure and House affairs committee to reinstate an opposition day for the Conservative Party of Canada. That would have been on May 19 if the government in fact tries to continue to postpone, cancel and delay opposition days until June. It is now very evident that the government intends to do this.

I find it more than a touch ironic, as I said, that the very member who chastised us for the use of the new procedure on concurrence motions, which is to have a three hour debate and to actually have a vote, is the very member who stands today to move his own concurrence motion to delay any opportunity for the opposition to have an opposition day. He is someone who in past parliaments, as he often proudly notes, not only was a cabinet minister but the House leader. In my past role as whip of the official opposition I dealt with him on a day to day basis and I built up quite a respect for him. He is always quick to point out his past positions. For him to stoop this low and do this certainly calls into question the respect I have for him at this point.

I want to raise another issue as well, which deals with the budget implementation bill. A lot of fallacies are being perpetrated, many by the Prime Minister of this country when he says that if we do not get the budget passed through Parliament somehow that will be the end of the Atlantic accord, the belated promise that he kept after stalling for months and months.

It was only the pressure from some of my colleagues from Newfoundland and Nova Scotia that eventually pushed the Prime Minister into actually committing to the Atlantic accord and sharing with those two provinces fully their offshore, non-renewable resource revenue. He says that somehow this is in jeopardy.

As members know, it is the official opposition that has been pushing for weeks and weeks to have the government split off the Atlantic accord from the budget. The Liberals absolutely refused. The finance minister said that we cannot cherry-pick with the budget. He made that statement. He basically dismissed concerns from Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, claiming that they could blame it on the Conservatives if the Atlantic accord does not pass. It is that type of nonsense we are hearing when we have pushed to have it split off, to make it separate legislation. We say, “Introduce it and let us get it through the House”. We have the numbers to do that. We have 99 members. We will support the government to get it through for Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia.

Yet it was not even on the radar screen of the New Democratic Party when it cut its now infamous secret deal. It did not care about those two provinces or Saskatchewan's equalization or the farmers and fishermen. They were not even on the radar screen when the leader of the New Democratic Party cut his now infamous deal with the Liberals. That is the reality we are dealing with.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

You guys on that side of the House are jumping for joy with your tax cuts. You said nothing about the farmers. You were sitting on your hands.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

How did you vote on the budget?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Off in the far corner there, the New Democratic Party seems to have woken up.

The other point I want to make is that the government said it has to get the budget passed right away. It says it has to get it through, yet its own motion today, which we are debating at the moment, further delays the chance of the government bringing forward Bill C-43 or amendments to that bill. We are not even sure exactly what the House leader for the government is up to, working with his new partners, the New Democratic partners, the New Democratic Party. We have this new NDP-Liberal coalition going on here.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

An hon. member

A socialist coalition.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Yes, exactly. It is a socialist coalition if there ever was one. We are not even quite sure why it is that the Liberals would bring forward a motion today that would delay them bringing forward this budget if it in fact is so important. The thing that needs to be repeatedly pointed out to Canadians is that the 2004 budget is still in the other place.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

An hon. member

It has not even been passed yet.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

It has not even been passed. It has not even become law. That was interrupted by an election, and some would say that it was an election that was not necessary.

The Prime Minister now says we cannot have an election for some 10 months. When it comes to the views of Canadians on the acceptability of having this government in power much longer, I am not quite sure why Canadians would want to have this corrupt and unprincipled government in power for 10 more days, let alone 10 more months. It is totally unbelievable.

While I am on this subject, I want to perhaps enlighten the New Democratic Party and its leader from Toronto about something that he may not have understood or considered. It seems to me that what we have here is a contradiction of promises by the Prime Minister. I know the Liberals will want to listen to this and pay close attention.

On the one hand, the Prime Minister said that he looked under his desk and found another $4.6 billion that could be spent on New Democratic priorities, but when pushed on that, he also said that he is not going to allow the country to be driven into deficit over that promise to the socialists. He said that. He said, “We will wait until the end of the fiscal year”.

I need to enlighten the New Democratic Party: the end of the fiscal year is in March of 2006. He said, “We will wait until then, we will see if we have the money, and then I will keep this commitment to the New Democratic Party”.

What about the promise? What about that other promise he made during his now infamous national televised address to the nation when he said--and I am sure he said this--first of all, that Parliament is dysfunctional. We are in agreement with him on that. Second, he said that if he is given the time, 10 more months, he will call an election 30 days after the final report from Gomery. That is what he said.

I am not sure whether the New Democratic Party goes by the same calendar that I do, but I suggest that the promise given by the Prime Minister is not worth the napkin that it is printed on, because the promise is contingent upon the country having enough of a surplus at the end of the fiscal year. However, January comes before March, and in January the Prime Minister has committed to Canadians that he will call an election if one is not held before.

I do not understand how the New Democratic Party can feel it has this commitment from the Prime Minister when there is going to be an election before the commitment ever kicks in. It is not worth the napkin it is written on. That is the reality. I am very surprised that the New Democratic Party has not actually woken up to that fact.

The NDP leader is already admitting that the Prime Minister is good at making promises. I point out that a promise made is a promise broken. It did not take him very long to make a promise to the New Democratic Party and then turn around and break it on his commitment to slash out the corporate tax cuts, which we are in favour of because the reality is that they help build a strong economy and create high-paying jobs in Canada.

The New Democratic Party has a problem with employment. It wanted to make sure that the tax relief, which by the way was well into the future at any rate, was taken out of the budget, but no sooner was the promise made when the Prime Minister said the reality is that the government is going to ensure that tax relief is put back in. If it is taken out of Bill C-43 with one hand, the government is going to put forward some legislation on the other hand and try to put it back in.

Those are the types of promises the Prime Minister continually makes. I would think the new partners of the Liberal Party, this corrupt government, should be concerned about that. They sit in this place and listen to the same broken promises and rhetoric that we have all heard. They use to be concerned about these issues prior to the break week. I do not know what happened during the break week. They were concerned about a corrupt government and all the evidence that was coming out of the Gomery inquiry but now all of a sudden they are not concerned because they got a promise that the Liberal government might spend $4.6 billion at the end of the fiscal year, if there is a sufficient surplus in the country, if they have overtaxed Canadians sufficiently to have that around to spend at the end of the year.

We know there will be an election before that. We know the Conservative Party of Canada will be elected as the government and then it will be our priorities, the Canadian people's priorities, that get addressed, not the priorities of the corrupt Liberal government that is continually trying to find ways to funnel money to itself.

I do not want to go on at any length about this but perhaps during the questions and comments I will be able to address some of these issues at greater length and further enlighten the House.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I have a question I would like to raise with my colleague from Prince George—Peace River. He made a speech very close to the agenda of the day.

Mr. Speaker, I know you told him to get to the point but I do not think he ever went there. He talked about the NDP having a secret deal with the Prime Minister of the country. I would like to ask members what happened to the secret deal that the leader of the Conservatives had when the government came down with its budget and did not even wait for it to be read in the House of Commons before saying he could not vote against a good budget.

I think the only reason it was a good budget for the Conservatives is because they were at 24% in the polls, not at 34%, then all of a sudden when they saw the percentage go up to 34% they woke up and said the government was corrupt. The Gomery commission began last year and we already knew the Liberals had a problem. Everything was on the news but maybe the Conservatives do not listen to the news.

What was there about a secret deal? All of a sudden they are saying we have a corrupt government. I know you were sitting in the House and not voting on the budget. Maybe you were asleep at that time. I am not ashamed today that our party helps a minority government where the leader of the country--

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

May I remind the hon. member to direct his comments to the Speaker, please.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Where were they that night when they sat and did not vote. I remember we had a vote on the budget. They said that it was a good budget and that they liked it so how could they vote against a budget like that?

The polls today say that 61% of Canadians do not want to go through an election. I want to know from my colleague if at that time they did not know about the corruption in the Liberal Party even though the Gomery commission has been going on since last year.

I would like to hear the member's comments about where the Conservatives were at that time because the 99 members of the Conservative Party just sat there and did not even use their right to vote. That is how much they were supporting the Liberal Party. They did not even finish listening to the budget before they ran outside saying they could not vote against it. I think it would be important for the Conservatives to tell Canadians where they were on that day.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jay Hill Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate your intervention. Despite the fact that many of us get very hot under the collar during debate here in the House, it is important that we show the necessary respect and always try to remember to address our comments through the Chair.

My hon. colleague from the New Democratic Party raised a number of relevant issues. First, he said that I did not get to the point. I think I did get to the point. The whole point of my intervention was to reveal what was behind the government calling this concurrence motion on this standing committee report at this time and I think I made my point reasonably well.

Second, I think the member used the words “what about the secret deal that the official opposition had with the Liberals to allow Parliament to survive”. He erroneously said, as we have read many times in the newspapers since then, that we supported the government. We did not support the government, nothing like the New Democratic Party which practically joined the government.

Finally, it is quite appropriate at this stage of this Parliament that members of the New Democratic Party have become the official rump instead of the unofficial rump of the Liberal Party. They are sitting on the right side of the House, in the sense of being with their new-found partners. I think that was probably their secret agenda at all points.

It was hardly a secret deal when the budget came down that we felt at that point in time we would abstain, unlike members of the New Democratic Party who already voted non-confidence in their new-found partners. Their word means nothing. They are completely unprincipled. They will sign anything to get five seconds worth of fame on the evening news. That is the reality of it all.

The reality is that it was not a secret deal. Our leader, the leader of the official opposition, went out and explained to Canadians that we were not prepared to bring down the government at that time on the budget. We wanted to try and make it work. We had some concerns about a lot of the issues but we felt we could work on them in a spirit of cooperation.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Why? They were not corrupt at that time?