Debates of June 10th, 2005

Health

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem of waiting lists has continued because of Liberal cuts and the fiscal imbalance, and patients in Quebec will, unfortunately, be paying the price.

Will the Minister of Health recognize, finally, that prime responsibility for the problems of the health care system rest with the federal government itself, which cut $24.5 billion in funds to Quebec and the provinces prior to 2002, just as health care costs were soaring?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, fortunately, we have a responsible Liberal government in Quebec, which considers the overall situation. It recognizes that the Government of Canada has reinvested in health care through its transfers to the provinces and that the health care system needs improvement and reorganization. Unlike the PQ, it is not calling for hasty application of the notwithstanding clause. It is much wiser. It is requesting a stay of the Supreme Court decision to allow it to adapt to the new situation.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by denying the existence of the fiscal imbalance, the government could use the recent Supreme Court ruling as a pretext to further cut funding to Quebec.

This is why I insist the Minister of Health stop his double talk and give Quebec guarantees that it will not be penalized by the Supreme Court decision. We want firm guarantees.

[Jean Lapierre, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, for two days now, the Bloc members have been trying to come up with scarecrows to frighten people. There is no question whatsoever of cutting any funds to Quebec. The Canada Health Act still applies.

These members want to frighten patients. They want people to think there will be cuts. They are acting totally irresponsibly toward society's most vulnerable members. It is totally irresponsible of them. I think they should be ashamed of trying to frighten people who are ill. They had better apologize, for crying out loud.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Ottawa Centre.

[Ed Broadbent, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Health. Yesterday's Supreme Court decision opens the door further to privatized two tier health care in Canada.

The minister knows we already have private clinics in four provinces. Not only has the Liberal government done nothing about this, in many of the instances of privatization, the Liberals have been complicitly supporting it.

Will he finally wake up and take decisive action to save Canada's public health care system?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we already started taking decisive action. In September 2004 we provided $41 billion. In 2003 we provided $21 billion. Roy Romanow has said that we have provided more money than he recommended be given to the provinces and territories.

We are busy trying to establish benchmarks, set the comparable indicators, expand home care, and bring more international medical graduates into the mainstream so we have a health care system that is thriving.

We are also talking to the provinces. Where there might be MRIs or clinics, in terms of the Canada Health Act, we have ongoing dialogue with them.

[Ed Broadbent, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are fed up with dialogue. They want action to save the system and it is crucially important to get it now.

I come back to some of the specifics. All the experts are talking about the need to improve waiting times, to keep drug costs down and to provide lower cost home care.

I ask the minister to be concrete on these three areas. What plans will he take in the near future to put pressure on the provinces to act in these areas to save the system?

[Ujjal Dosanjh, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to benchmarks, there is a deadline of December 3 for all the provinces and territories, including the federal government, with respect to aboriginal health care. We have to establish benchmarks and comparable indicators that are pan-Canadian.

On the issue of drugs, we have a national pharmaceutical strategy. Officials are at several tables discussing these issues, wanting to ensure that there is bulk purchasing, speedier drug reviews and that these expensive drugs, which might have catastrophic consequences for people, are dealt with adequately.

These are some of the issues--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Fort McMurray—Athabasca.

Audiotaped Conversations

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Athabasca, AB]

More talk, no action, Mr. Speaker. Over the past several weeks we have been so busy looking at a single tree that we have ignored the rest of the corrupt forest.

Why does the government continue to ignore and not answer questions on why the Prime Minister's chief of staff and right-hand man was involved in an illegal vote buying scheme to keep the Prime Minister in control of the public purse?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Minister for Internal Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister indicated quite clearly in the House yesterday that he and everyone who worked in the Prime Minister's office would cooperate fully with the Ethics Commissioner in terms of his work.

That is on the record, and I do not see where the problem is.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals can sing and dance anywhere they want, but it is what is on tape that matters.

It appears that some of the most senior members of the government are involved in unethical and illegal behaviour. Yet they continue to ignore the questions and deflect blame on adversaries.

If the Prime Minister, his chief of staff and one of his senior ministers were actually aware that these actions were illegal, why did one of them not report it to the RCMP?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Minister for Internal Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I was not singing and dancing and I am sure the hon. member would not want to see me singing and dancing.

It is quite clear that the member for Newton—North Delta indicated he wanted to cross the floor. The Prime Minister was aware of that. The Prime Minister said that no offers were to be made. None were made and that is that.

If the member has any information that is contrary or additional to that, he is welcome to and he should send it over to the RCMP or to the Ethics Commissioner. The Ethics Commissioner and the RCMP will do what they have to do according to their mandate.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's chief of staff and closest adviser, Tim Murphy, has gone into hiding as tapes of his illicit conversation with an opposition member have been fully released and fully authenticated.

Tim Murphy has offered no explanation, no documentation, nothing to dispute apparent Liberal offers to poach an opposition member's vote.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Why Murphy's silent treatment? Is it a guilty conscience?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Minister for Internal Trade]

Mr. Speaker, if there is someone who has gone into hiding, it is certainly not the Prime Minister's chief of staff. It may be someone else on that side of the House.

However, there is mention of tapes. I still wonder how these members subscribe to the theory of pristine tapes when five independent experts, not partisan experts, have testified that these tapes have been altered, doctored, spliced, sliced and reduced from four hours to two hours.

To ask for anybody to step aside on the basis of such tapes is ludicrous.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is time they updated their talking points. A leading audio expert has confirmed that the full recordings are “clean and unedited”. What is not clean is the Prime Minister's right-hand man, Tim Murphy, who apparently offered plum government positions to poach an opposition member for a crucial vote. The government will stop at nothing to stay in power.

Will the Prime Minister finally admit his right-hand man was caught red-handed in these recordings?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Minister for Internal Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister will admit to no such thing because it is not the truth.

The truth is the member for Newton—North Delta sought to cross the floor. The Prime Minister was aware of that. He advised his chief of staff and the Minister of Health not to make any offers. None were made.

Now those people would want the Prime Minister's chief of staff and the Minister of Health to step aside on the basis of tapes that have been doctored, spliced, sliced and shrunk from four hours to two hours. Even their partisan experts recognize that they have been tampered with.

Taxation

[Guy Côté, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the current government has a propensity to distort equalization by increasing the number of ad hoc agreements with the governments of some provinces in order to ensure its own survival.

Does the Prime Minister not realize that the only way there can be fair and stable funding of the public expenditures of the governments of Quebec and the provinces is to consider an overhaul of the equalization system instead of reacting to events as they arise, as he is currently doing?

[Jean Lapierre, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I thought the hon. member, as an MP from Quebec, would have been happy with a health agreement that ensured the transfer of $41 billion to the provinces. This means $9 billion more for the Government of Quebec.

I hope he will also be happy with the upcoming agreement with the municipalities on providing help for infrastructure. This will transfer $5 billion to municipalities throughout Canada, including some $500 million to $600 million to municipalities in Quebec.

As for equalization, adjustments to the tune of $30 billion were made. This relieves some of the financial pressure—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier.

[Guy Côté, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is sad. The government now has the report of the Subcommittee on Fiscal Imbalance in Canada. Does it not realize that its recent decisions, far from correcting the fiscal imbalance, in fact exacerbate it and will create unfair situations in the future? All of this is going to distort rather than improve the Canadian equalization system.

[John McKay, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the report referenced by the hon. member was originally referred by the House to the committee. It assumed a fiscal imbalance. Then a study was purportedly carried on by the subcommittee which assumed a fiscal imbalance. Then the witnesses appeared to be loaded somewhat heavily toward treasurers of provinces and premier of provinces, all of whom seemed to have some interest in it. To no one's great surprise the report says that there is a fiscal imbalance.

Member for Newton—North Delta

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister could save everyone a lot of trouble and make the RCMP's job easier by simply answering our questions about the timing of when he became aware of a member of Parliament trying to sell his support.

Could the Prime Minister tell us why he is stubbornly refusing to answer this very simple question? When exactly did he learn that a member wanted to get something in return for supporting the government?