House of Commons Hansard #110 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was producers.

Topics

Supply ManagementGovernment Orders

10:30 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Chair

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Simcoe—Grey.

Supply ManagementGovernment Orders

10:35 p.m.

Conservative

Helena Guergis Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Madam Chair, it is a pleasure to speak this evening on this very important matter of supply management.

Those members who have had the opportunity to visit my beautiful riding of Simcoe--Grey know that a major source of employment is the agricultural industry. Agriculture is the key economic sector of our country and farming provides benefits to the communities that surround it. Rural Canada contributes 15% of Canada's GDP, which benefits all Canadians.

Within my riding of Simcoe--Grey, agricultural and agrifood businesses generate over $150 million. Twenty-seven per cent of goods-producing jobs are actually agrifood jobs. The result is safe, secure and affordable food that is produced close to home.

However, it is important that producers and governments work together to make agriculture sustainable. Our farmers are hard-working and independent, but cooperation is becoming increasingly important to make our producers competitive in global markets.

A Conservative government will support supply management and its goal to deliver a high quality product to consumers for a fair price with a reasonable return to the producer. This is common sense. However, it was only because of political pressures that the Liberal government even considered supporting supply management. This is not enough.

Canadian farmers are suffering because of poor ministerial representation by the government at World Trade Organization negotiations. In 2003, for example, the Liberals attempted to restart WTO negotiations by offering to reduce tariff levels on egg, poultry and dairy imports by 5%. In effect, what they are doing is playing the interests of different Canadian farmers against each other to achieve their objectives. This is wrong.

Then, in the 2004 WTO negotiations, this government signed an agreement that threatened supply management in the egg, dairy and poultry sectors. The 2004 agreement commits Canada to reducing tariffs in proportion to reductions made by other countries. This is shameful.

This government has failed to achieve real protection for Canada's supply management sectors. Instead, the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of International Trade have bargained away tariffs in these sectors piece by piece. Because the government does not stand up for Canadian farmers, it has not been honest with them about the ramifications of these negotiations.

The Conservative Party believes that government must support farmer-led supply management systems and the government must negotiate beneficial trade agreements.

When Canadian agriculture faces unfair trade challenges, Ottawa must go to bat for producers on the world stage with high level delegations. We need a commitment from the government that this supply managed sector will have input into the creation of a trade negotiation mandate, but we have been waiting 12 years for this. It has been 12 years and all we have seen from the government is mismanagement and neglect.

Let us not think for a minute that Canadians farmers are not aware of the lack of support from the government. During the past year I have travelled extensively throughout my riding. I have spoken to hundreds of farmers at community events, on the farm, on the sidewalk, at their doorsteps and at Terry Dowdell's coffee shop at Baxter corners.

Their message to me was clear: they no longer respect politicians. They say their trust has been continuously violated over the past 12 years and they have had enough. They have heard Liberal promises, put their faith in the government over and over again and waited for action, only to see the Liberals continue to break promises, ignore Canadians and further demean elected office in the eyes of the Canadian taxpayer. Promises made, promises broken.

Government, minority or otherwise, brings not only the privilege of the fancy seats on the other side of this chamber but also the responsibility of governing on behalf of Canadians. However, this government has become so arrogant that it no longer represents the needs of Canadians.

It is not just the farmers who are fed up with this Liberal government. The conflicting Liberal messages are a factor contributing to Canada's isolation at WTO negotiations. Major countries such as the U.S.A., the European Union, Australia, Brazil and India are playing an increasingly important role in WTO negotiations, whereas Canada is being sidelined.

Much like Canada, the European Union and the U.S.A. are net agricultural exporters. They went to the table last July with strong, developed plans to achieve their goals and domestic interests. Canada has no plan. Canada has not defended its agricultural producers and has become a spectator rather than a participant in influencing the agriculture agreement.

The Liberals will tell us that they sought consensus of the industry through stakeholder consultations, convincing producers that they had sufficient input to proceed with trade negotiations. However, the Liberals have violated their trust. The government has abdicated its responsibility to live up to its own negotiating mandate.

Canadian farmers want and need a government that will listen to them, a government that will work to support and protect the agriculture industry, a government for Canadians.

Keith Currie, president of the Simcoe County Federation of Agriculture and also a local farmer in my riding, was very clear with respect to supply management. He said that supply management works and it would be a shame if the government were to let it fall between the cracks.

He said that supply management provides a good return on investment for farmers and allows them to contribute their profits back into the economy, not only for new equipment but to purchase items such as furniture for their homes and schooling for their children. Furthermore, farmers pay taxes on their profits. It is therefore a win-win for all parties involved, he said. I could not agree more.

Mr. Currie went on to say that the federal government needs a long term plan for agriculture and that Canadians must know that a country with a stable food supply will remain economically stable. We cannot lose that.

Mr. Bill Mitchell, assistant director of communications and planning for the Dairy Farmers of Ontario, made it very clear that the dairy industry wants the Canadian government to take a strong stance in the upcoming trade negotiations. He also indicated that the dairy industry has had substantial losses due to subsidized imports that are coming in through trade loopholes and dairy farmers want the government to act now and stop the damage.

I will explain the loophole in plain language with the following example. If we take butter oil and sugar and mix them together, they are then tariff free. This is because the two items together create a new mixture not picked up in trade negotiations. Since the new mixture was not part of the trade negotiations, it is tariff free.

Mr. Mitchell said that Canada should be protecting its agriculture industries by stopping loopholes that create losses for our farmers. He said that one way to do this is to improve product standards and labelling regulations.

Canadian farmers involved in the supply managed industries are very committed, hard-working individuals who watch intently what we do here on Parliament Hill. They watch because they want the government to finally step up to the plate and put Canada first with respect to WTO negotiations.

I am proud that I can stand in front of them and in this House and say that I support supply management, my party supports supply management and my leader supports supply management. I am proud to stand up for Canadian farmers. Our party is proud to stand up for Canadian farmers.

Just this past summer, the leader of our strong and united Conservative Party, the leader of the official opposition, the member for Calgary Southwest, expressed his strong support for supply management by signing a declaration.

Our party is on record as supporting supply management and also supports the three pillars of supply management as expressed in the declaration:

--the Canadian supply management system...is based on planning production to match demand, on producer pricing that reflects production costs, as well as on control of imports...

The Conservative Party will ensure that Canada's agricultural producers are first on the list when it comes to trade negotiations. The Conservative Party of Canada will stand up for Canadian farmers.

Supply ManagementGovernment Orders

10:40 p.m.

Parry Sound—Muskoka Ontario

Liberal

Andy Mitchell LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity to intervene in the debate at this point. I thank the hon. member for her intervention although I believe there needs to be somewhat of a reality check based on some of her comments.

First, we should understand and all Canadians should understand, that if she gives a litany events that have occurred prior to this year, that at the time those events were occurring and prior to the March convention of the hon. member's party, the position of that party was not to support supply management. That is the reality and I will have my hon. parliamentary secretary read it. It is fair enough to change their policy, but they should admit to the fact that they have changed it and their approach.

Second, in the first part of her speech she is critical of the government for not having a particular approach. Then later on in her speech, she criticizes that approach. There is an inconsistency there. On the one hand she cannot criticize the government for not having an approach and then later criticize the approach.

The negotiating mandate that we are pursuing is one that was developed over time in consultation with the industry. That is the reality. The member said that Canada was on the sidelines. I was in Geneva in 2004. We sat through the night, we sat through the day and we sat through the next night. Canada was not unrepresented. Canada was at that table. I think if she spoke to the 40 or so industry representatives who were with us in Geneva at that time, they would say that the framework agreement achieved in that process was one that provided us with an opportunity to pursue the negotiation in a way that would allow us to move toward protecting supply management and toward what our objective clearly is.

To suggest for a moment that Canada was not at the table, that Canada was not aggressively defending the interests of supply management and other producers in this country and that we were not there with the industry is simply not accurate. It represents misinformation being put forward.

We clearly support the supply management sector in our country and we have since its inception. We have given that support for 35 years. We are negotiating in the WTO to achieve important objectives for all Canadian agriculture in elimination of export subsidies, in the reduction of domestic supports and to provide new market access. However, we do it in a way that continues to provide Canadian producers choices about domestic marketing regimes, including supply management.

The actions and the position we take and the process that we pursue is one that has as its objective the long term sustainability of supply management in Canada. The decisions we are taking are designed to achieve just that. There may be disagreements about the strategic approach in which we pursue these objectives and that is fair enough. Part of the debate in the House should be about that. However, I stress that there is not a disagreement about the importance and the willingness of the government to support supply management in all its forms in Canada.

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10:45 p.m.

Conservative

Helena Guergis Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Madam Chair, honestly, I will not agree with the majority of what the minister said.

I would like to point out that during the last election I campaigned supporting supply management, enforcing that our party's platform was to support supply management. Nothing has changed since that date.

The minister has raised the issue about not having the government at the table, which is something I spoke to in my remarks earlier. I would like to elaborate a little bit more on the WTO negotiations and point out some facts so those listening at home have a full understanding as to what I am speaking about here.

I would like to remind the minister again that political pressure is what caused the Liberal government to verbalize its support for supply management.

However, this verbal support has been just that. When the rubber hits the road at the WTO negotiations, the Liberal government has failed to adequately represent all agricultural producers, including those in the supply managed sectors.

One of the members earlier, I believe it was the member for Provencher, pointed out that Canadian farmers had suffered from poor ministerial representation at WTO negotiations. A recent example of the Liberals shirking their duties to Canadian farmers was the absence of the Minister of International Trade and the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-food at the ministerial meeting in Kenya on March 2 to 4.

At this meeting member countries discussed their commitments to the Doha round. The international trade minister and the agriculture and agri-food minister were not at the meeting because they were attending the Liberal convention. Under the rules of the mini-ministerial without a minister present, no other representatives of that country are allowed to speak officially. It is a shame that they did not have anyone there representing Canada.

The Liberals have clearly done a very poor job of showing other countries that Canada's supply managed sectors ought to be exempt from WTO negotiations. Instead they have used tariffs in the supply managed sectors as bargaining chips in the WTO negotiations.

The poor showing by these ministers at the WTO imperils the livelihood of all farmers. Canada is the third largest agriculture exporter in the world. Given that the two ministers have given mixed messages to the WTO and member countries, it is not surprising that Canada is losing credibility among the WTO countries.

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10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

Madam Chair, in making my comments, I would like to return to something the minister of agriculture raised.

The minister mentioned, which I guess is another Liberal talking point, that our party's strengthening commitment to supply management somehow suggests that what occurred in the past is the relevant policy to look at. He stated incorrectly that we did not support supply management prior to the March convention.

What he did infer, which is correct, is that our supply management commitment has grown and did grow at the March convention. That was the result of the fact that there were a number of people, myself included and the hon. member who spoke earlier, who worked very hard to ensure that our commitment to supply management was strengthened. It is a real commitment, not the kind of make believe commitment we see from a government over there that did not give one penny for the support of agriculture in its last budget. This is despite the fact that we have had the worst agricultural year in the history of our country.

That is the record of the government. The fact that its members are squawking over there right now shows just how upset they are when the facts are laid in front of them.

The Liberal government has committed not a penny. Would a Conservative government and would she work to ensure that a Conservative government ensures, first, that there would be some commitment of resources to the agricultural sector in a Conservative budget?

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10:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Madam Chair, I rise on a point of order. Obviously we are talking history. If he cannot read his own policy statement, he obviously cannot read the budget either because he does not know what it says.

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10:50 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Chair

The member for Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington can continue.

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10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON

Madam Chair, I will be very quick because I do want to hear what the hon. member has to say in response to my question.

Would a Conservative government and would she work to ensure a Conservative government ensures there are some resources devoted to the agricultural sector in Canada? In particular, would some resources be devoted to expanding slaughter and processing capacity to which again the government has contributed nothing?

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10:50 p.m.

Conservative

Helena Guergis Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Madam Chair, I must admit I had great difficulty hearing the member's question with all the yelling going on back and forth in here.

I believe the question was about whether we would increase slaughter capacity. That is very important to the Conservative Party. We have been saying for quite some time now that we would like to see the Liberals increase slaughter capacity. They have been making promises to increase this capacity, but we are still waiting for it. Why?

The only time we seem to see any action or see the delays stop with respect to slaughter capacity is when the Conservative Party raises it in the House and then the Liberals step up to the table. That is the only time we seem to see slaughter capacity increased. It is extremely important, especially for cull cows, and we do support it.

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10:50 p.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources

Madam Chair, before I begin I would like to congratulate Yukon farmers for the tremendous work they do and the diversity and quality of their products. I am very proud every year to open the agricultural fair where these products are displayed. They are quite unique compared to what people might think of this area. This area is actually growing in production because of global warming and the opportunities to have a wide variety of very high quality products.

Seeing as the minister is here this evening, I would like to thank him and the department for the tremendous support that our agricultural community receives. It makes it a very exciting sector in our economy.

I am pleased to take part in this important debate this evening and to reaffirm the government's strong commitment to our supply management system, which we have been seeing for years. Supply management has been the choice of dairy, poultry and egg producers over the past three decades and has proven to be a very successful choice for these industries. It is one of the hallmarks of Canada's domestic agricultural policy and something of which this government is very proud.

Supply management is a uniquely Canadian agricultural commodity system and its benefits are many. It offers market stability and predictability to producers and consumers alike. It enables producers to secure a fair return in the marketplace in exchange for supplying higher quality, value added products to consumers.

Nevertheless, our supply management system is not without its share of challenges. Indeed, supply managed producers and dairy producers, in particular, are facing some very real and difficult challenges from a number of different sources. Some are domestic in origin, such as technological developments in the dairy sector, high quota values and limited growth potential in domestic markets.

Others are international in scope, including the fact that the low cost global competitors are looking to enter the domestic market in spite of current tariff levels. Still others stem from the very real pressures that Canada is facing in the World Trade Organization's agricultural negotiations. For example, in the area of market access our overquota tariffs are under pressure as all other WTO members are calling for tariff reductions on all tariff lines.

On domestic support, disciplines on product specific support will constrain Canada's approach to market price support for the dairy sector. In the area of export competition, the elimination of export subsidies will almost completely bar dairy producers from entering export markets. Taken together, we are facing the possibility of a smaller supply managed industry with lower returns for our dairy, poultry and egg producers.

Our supply managed producers are very aware of these challenges and the impacts they could have on their operations and on their future bottom lines. One of the key pillars of Canada's supply management system is the management of domestic supply through import controls. Regulated levels of imports enable governments to predict future demand and then ensure that domestic production levels satisfy most of that demand.

However, given the domestic and international challenges I have just outlined, supply managed producers, especially dairy producers, are becoming increasingly concerned about what they deem “to be the erosion of supply management's important control pillar”. In response, they have pressed the government hard to protect their interests. The Dairy Farmers of Canada have been pressing the government to initiate a GATT article XXVIII action which, if successful, would allow Canada to negotiate the creation of new tariff quotas or TRQs on specified products.

Specifically, the Dairy Farmers of Canada has called for the negotiation of new TRQs on four specific dairy ingredients: casein, caseinates, butter oil-sugar blends and milk protein isolates. Given the increased levels of these imports, they have affected almost 50% of the ice cream market and 20% of the cheese market.

Supply managed producers have also been calling for fairness and equity in the rules that define the global trading system. For too long they and many other Canadian producers have been disadvantaged by inequities that were entrenched in the WTO agreement on agriculture and the unfairly high levels of support and protection offered by a small handful of other countries.

I want to stress to the House that the Government of Canada has been listening to the concerns of supply managed producers. Indeed, we have been doing more than just listening. The government has been working hand in hand with Canadian producers to address these challenges and to begin considering possible short and long term approaches to sustain their prosperity going into the future.

It is true that the government has informed the dairy farmers of Canada that from a strategic perspective this is not the right time to take an article XVIII action given the intensity of the WTO agriculture negotiations and the fact that the shape of the potential outcome is not yet clear.

It is the government's view that Canada can best defend the interests of dairy producers and therefore work to minimize the pressures that they are facing by retaining our credibility and influence in the negotiations.

Other key WTO members have warned Canada that initiating an article XVIII action at this juncture in the negotiations would seriously undermine our credibility and influence. The government position on this matter has been personally conveyed on a number of occasions to the dairy farmers by the Minister of International Trade, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

At the same time, the DFC has been assured that the government will continue to assess its requests in light of ongoing developments in the WTO negotiations as well as other domestic and international factors related to this issue.

That said, the government has been doing other things to address the concerns of the dairy farmers of Canada. For example, the government will appeal the Canadian International Trade Tribunal's ruling on tariff classification of a milk protein isolate to address concerns with increased imports of milk proteins in various forms.

The government will also make efforts to monitor the level of imports of similar milk protein products to assess any possible trends and we will work with the Canadian Dairy Commission to carefully monitor any increase in the size of the skim milk powder surplus. Furthermore, the government has been working with the dairy farmers to address their concerns with labelling regulations and regulatory standards.

In regard to the WTO agriculture negotiations, the government has been working very closely with all Canadian producers to press hard to achieve a more level international playing field, one characterized by clear, fair and more equitable trading rules. A more level playing field is truly in the interests of all Canadian producers as it will help them to do business effectively in an increasingly globalized economy.

At the same time, we will continue to strongly defend the ability of producers to choose how to market their products through orderly marketing structures like supply management.

Canada is a real player in the WTO agriculture negotiations. We are working with a wide range of countries to position our ideas as the most effective means to achieve fairness and equity in the global trading system.

We have been recognized for our ability to bring practical and credible ideas to the table to move the negotiations forward and have been doing so in a way that aims to achieve a positive outcome for the entire agrifood sector.

I am proud to tell the House that many of Canada's key ideas and approaches are guiding the way in which the negotiations are unfolding. For example, Canada's idea that those countries that subsidize the most should make the largest reductions has been embraced by all WTO members and is now guiding the discussions on how to reduce trade distorting domestic support.

The July 2004 framework on agriculture, which is the road map for the negotiations, also reflects Canada's proposal that market access improvements for sensitive products, like our supply managed products, should be made through combinations of tariff reductions and tariff quota expansion to offer flexibility for countries to accommodate their respective domestic policy approaches.

We can see that the negotiations are pointing in the direction of a more level playing field and moving in the direction of clear and fairer rules that address some of the inequities that our producers have faced since the Uruguay round.

In closing, I want to reiterate that the government fully recognizes the seriousness of the challenges facing our supply managed producers. More important, I want to stress that the government will continue to do all it can to respond to them. The government has and will continue to partner with our producers to seek short and long term solutions to ensure the viability and sustained prosperity of our supply management system.

Supply ManagementGovernment Orders

11 p.m.

Conservative

Leon Benoit Conservative Vegreville—Wainwright, AB

Madam Chair, I listened carefully to the member opposite as he made his presentation, as I have listened to most of the people who have spoken tonight.

One would think, on an issue as important as this one is to the country and to Canadian farmers, that partisanship would be set aside and that all members of Parliament would be looking for a solution together to some of the serious problems that agriculture faces.

Sadly, we have heard from many members from the Liberal Party and especially from some members of the New Democratic Party a shameful partisanship, comments that are just way overboard and that, quite frankly, are not productive in arriving at some solutions to the problems.

Now the member who just spoke is not one of those people who has made the partisan comments.

Tonight we have heard several Liberal members and New Democratic members say that Conservatives were somehow the worst enemy of farmers. I would like to ask the member opposite why it is that a vast majority of farmers across the country voted for and elected Conservative members of Parliament. If Conservatives are not standing up for farmers in a way that is truly helpful to farmers, then why is it that a vast majority of farmers voted to support Conservative members of Parliament and elected Conservative members of Parliament across the country? How does the member explain that contradiction between what the Liberals and the New Democratic members say about Conservatives and farmers and the reality of what happens at election time?

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11:05 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Chair, I would like stay on the positive side here. I agree with the member's opening comments that we should try to remain non-partisan in take note debates in general. I think if officials are listening to good suggestions that come out of take note debates that is one of the benefits of them.

However I am not sure that it is fair for him to raise that. The speaker, two speakers before him, from the Conservative Party was very fair and non-partisan and made a very good speech. However the speaker after that just gave a whole list of very partisan misinformation, so that probably should not be the member raising that issue.

In relation to the second question, I do not want to comment on those who are criticizing Conservatives for not representing farmers.

I would just like to say that we are representing farmers. We supported supply management in the budget. We recently added $1 billion to our support for farmers. We are trying to do whatever we can. As I mentioned in my speech, four or five initiatives were taken specifically for dairy farmers until we can finish this round of negotiations in which I have a whole list of things, if someone wants to ask me, that we are trying to achieve for the farming sector, dairy farmers and other farmers, because of the damage that subsidies in other countries can do to us and indeed in other sectors. I am just trying to remain on the positive side.

It is good that a lot of the parties are supporting the farmers and, hopefully, together we can come up with the best way to support them and have a strong, united front in the negotiations. At the end of the negotiations, we still have remedies that we can use but let us maintain our credibility and leadership through these negotiations and still try to achieve as much as we can with these irritants that are hurting our trade.

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11:05 p.m.

Parry Sound—Muskoka Ontario

Liberal

Andy Mitchell LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Madam Chair, I do appreciate the speech from the hon. member. In having some comments directed at him, he sort of opened himself up to that question in respect of wanting to talk about some of the good things in agriculture. We have heard a little bit of what I would say are inaccuracies in some of the comments that have been made.

I would ask the hon. member about a couple of things. First of all, he mentioned the $1 billion we put into agriculture. I know that if he had had an opportunity he would have mentioned that in the budget we put in money to expand the spring and fall advance programs and we gave the Canadian Grain Commission some additional resources.

I know he would want to mention that slaughter capacity has actually increased by 30% in Canada, that we have two new plants coming on line, the benefits of the loan loss reserve program, that we have put investments in the P.E.I. plant, and that we have other plants that have expanded.

I think he would want to mention that we have been able to regain access to 14 new international markets. Certainly even today the fact is that we have concentrated on the appeal to the ruling in the U.S. in the California court. Canada's standing at that court was accepted by the court today. That is something we have done. I think that is a positive side.

I think it is important that we do have a fulsome display of the facts on the public record here and that we do understand what was done in the budget, what additional support was provided after the budget and the progress we are making. That is not for a moment to suggest that there are no other important issues to deal with. Obviously supply management is one, as is our WTO negotiations.

The hon. member indicated the importance of talking about some of the positives in agriculture. Would he agree that some of these I have mentioned are positives? Perhaps he has some others that he would want to enunciate.

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11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Madam Chair, I do not really want to answer that question, but I will say I agree that it is great to have all those items of our agricultural support on the record. I would have loved to say all those things, but they have now been said.

I would say, though, that we are a trading nation. I think everyone in the House will agree that as a very small country that is very dependent on trade it is important for us to move ahead. We need to move forward in trade. As an example, we have woken up and noticed that the huge emerging markets will have a huge effect on Canada, so we have strategically started targeting increasing our trade, not only with the United States but with Brazil, China and India, the coming markets in the world.

Our time tonight may be running out, but to be more helpful to tonight's debate, I will try to list quickly some of the things we are trying to achieve at the negotiations, because we do not want to reduce our credibility by any rash action. We will try to achieve these before December. At that point we can make our alterations, but in the midst of these very heated negotiations, when we have a lot to win and a lot to lose, I think we want to just push forward. We want to try to achieve a level playing field for the agrifood sector. We want some increased market access for goods and services. We want rules on trade remedies and trade facilitation. We want better integration of developing countries.

In agriculture, we are seeking the complete elimination of all forms of export subsidies, the substantial reduction of trade distorting domestic support, and real and significant improvements in market access for all agrifood products. At the same time, of course, we want to continue to support our producers on supply management in whatever way they want to market their products. We remain a long way from the final outcome, but there are many gains that we could make in sectors like agriculture, manufacturing and services.

Let us keep our credibility and not make any rash, protectionist movements at this time. Let us stand up for supply management, stand up for our various sectors and try to make as much as we can in all these areas. We should remember that all these areas are at risk in the WTO, not just one. At the end of it, we will do what we have to do to adjust to help our dairy farmers.

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11:10 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Madam Chair, I appreciate the opportunity tonight to put a few thoughts on the record on this really important issue. I want to say at the outset that it is really not as complicated as the government would present. It is actually rather simple, particularly when we sit down and talk with farmers, as I did last weekend in my constituency office, and they share with us what it is they want the government to do.

They want the government to stand up for them. They want to know they have an ally. They want to know they have a friend. They want to know that the government has the backbone to stand up to other jurisdictions and say we will protect our industry, because they have seen over the last eight or nine months agriculture attacked by the U.S., by BSE, and now in this instance by other jurisdictions, by the WTO taking away from us our ability to grow an industry to serve our own needs and to export into the larger world.

They do not see, in the minister here tonight and the government, somebody, a government, that is willing to stand with them shoulder to shoulder in these battles. They feel like they have been let down. They feel like they are alone out there. They feel like no one understands the impact this is having on them and their livelihood, on their way of life.

I am here tonight to say that it is time to live up to the promises the Liberals made during the last federal election, things the Prime Minister said. He is on the record as saying that he supports the maintenance of supply management, a fair agricultural model, and that he will personally get involved, so that at the end of the WTO negotiations, producers under supply management can continue to meet the needs of Canadian consumers and obtain all their revenue from the marketplace based on their costs of production, including a fair return on their labour and capital. That is what he said during the election.

That was a good statement, except, as with everything else, when you guys are out on the hustings campaigning and looking for power, you will say anything to get elected--

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11:15 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Chair

The hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie will please address his remarks to the Chair and not to members.

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11:15 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Madam Chair, it takes the New Democratic Party, 19 of us in the corner over here, to stand up and call them to task, keep their feet to the fire, because every time we turn around they drop another--

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11:15 p.m.

Conservative

Leon Benoit Conservative Vegreville—Wainwright, AB

And you really did that in that new budget. You didn't even mention it there.

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11:15 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Well, let's talk about the budget. If it was not for that budget, if it was not for the agreement that the leader of the NDP was able to make with the Prime Minister at the last hour, as you hung on by your fingernails to power, hoping to stay as the government for a little while longer, and gave $4.6 billion to the people of this country, it just would not have happened, would it?

You went out on the hustings and promised affordable housing, support for students who are suffering under a heavy tuition load, you promised--

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11:15 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Chair

The member for Sault Ste. Marie is an experienced parliamentarian and knows he has to address the Chair. Please address the Chair.

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11:15 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I have a passion about this issue, Madam Chair, and I know that the farmers who are here and the farmers in my own constituency want me to speak for them, through you, Madam Chair, to this government and tell them to stand up and be counted on this issue. Do not drop the ball, because there is too much at stake.

We know when the Liberals were looking for power on the hustings they made all kinds of promises on all kinds of fronts. In their Speech from the Throne there was a lot of stuff that all of a sudden was missing, but particularly when they came down with the budget there was nothing there.

I hear the Conservatives yapping off here to my right. When the first budget came down there was not a thing in it for agriculture. What did we hear from the farmers in the Conservative caucus? What did we hear from the Conservative caucus? They said they supported the budget. When it came to a vote on the budget, where were they? They were sitting on their hands. Then when the budget was voted on, they voted for it in principle.

Talk about talking out of both sides of one's mouth. There is no room here for the high ground, either with the government or with the Conservatives.

What the farmers are looking for tonight is someone to stand up and say, “We will be with you; we will be there fighting for you. We will put it all out there on the floor. We will take the risk. We will invoke article XXVIII.” We know and the farmers know other countries have done so. Other countries have invoked article XXVIII, and they did not suffer any penalty from the WTO or other countries. No. They were seen to be speaking from a position of strength.

That is what the farmers want. They want their government to stand with them and speak from a position of strength in front of these countries that want to take away our share of the market, and to act in a manner that bespeaks the history and the track record of the country, as we have gone to war year after year over in Europe with those same countries, to protect their interests and their freedom. They want their government to go to war with them to protect their industry, their interest in their industry, their future, and what they have given their lifeblood to build up, their farms for their families, and that is not happening. That is really sad, because the farmers had bigger expectations from the government in that.

The European Union used article XXVIII to stem the imports of wheat and barley. The United States invoked article XXVIII against Canadian wheat. Russia and Vietnam have stood up for their domestic markets. The U.S. is now moving against modified milk products, and the list goes on and on. Other countries stood shoulder to shoulder with our farmers to protect their interests against outside countries that want to come in and take a whole lot of our market.

This is I think the fifth time I have stood in the House to speak in a debate on agriculture in the last nine months. That is because of the importance of farming to my constituency.

I sat down with one of my farmers the other day, and he shared with me that the impact of this ruling by the WTO going through is very significant for him and for his neighbours. I think he was talking about an impact of some $35,000 of equity, a significant reduction in his market share.

An economic impact study was done on the importance of farming in the Algoma-Manitoulin region. In April 2004, agri-related sales were $86.2 million, with total jobs of 2,827. That is like another Algoma Steel.

If Algoma Steel was threatened in Sault Ste. Marie, we would all be up in arms. The provincial government would be up in arms, the federal government would be up in arms, and the city would be up in arms. We would be going to war to protect Algoma Steel.

But for our farmers, there are 2,827 jobs, which is similar to Algoma Steel, and the government is up against it. The WTO makes a ruling. The government could invoke article XXVIII, and what does it do? Nothing. It is silent on the issue. It is silent on an industry that has as much impact on my area as the closing of Algoma Steel would have if the government does not do something.

I tell the House the farmers are being hammered by BSE and the result of that, the closing of the border, and now they are being hammered by this WTO ruling. They are very disappointed that the government is not doing anything.

On the one hand I suppose we can be grateful for this take note debate and the prominence given to agriculture and our farmers and to their important issues such as supply management. On the other hand it begs the question of why there are so many debates and why so little action.

If we are to have yet another take note debate on agriculture, the question is, is anyone taking note? Is anyone noticing the real live impact on the farmers at home in their ridings of actions such as this and the inaction of the government?

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11:20 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Madam Chair, there is a sense of urgency here. The government's record on agriculture is poor. According to Statistics Canada, in 1993 net farm incomes were 18% lower than they were for 2004. That is on an inflation adjusted basis. Last year was one of the best years that the agricultural sector had in the last five or six years in this country.

The government's record on agriculture has been poor. However, supply management has been the one bright light in agriculture. I support supply management. We have 500 dairy farmers in Wellington County. As a matter of fact, I went to the Wellington County dairy producers' annual general meeting a number of months ago. I listened to the concerns they had and the investments they were making in their industry.

I support supply management because supply management works. We do not have billion dollar bailouts of this industry. There have not been any disruptive trade shocks domestically or internationally. It provides stable incomes and allows the hard-working family farms, hard-working dairy producers and poultry producers to make a decent living. That is very important.

There are three pillars to supply management. Supply management is like a three-legged stool. There are production quotas, pricing controls and import controls. Those are the three elements that are important to supply management. Those are the three legs to the three-legged stool. If one of the three legs gets knocked out, the stool falls over.

What is happening is that the government is undermining one of the three legs on the stool. It is slowly selling out supply management by selling out one of the three pillars, over quota tariffs, or in other words, import controls. I would be surprised if one of the fathers, so to speak, of supply management, Eugene Whelan, who would have sat opposite me in this House, would approve of what the government is doing by selling out one of the three pillars.

Why is the government, why is the minister, why is the international trade minister trading away at the WTO one of the three pillars, one of the three legs, in supply management? In doing so, it is going to destroy supply management.

Why is the government slowly trading away the pillar of import controls or over quota tariffs for supply management?

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11:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Madam Chair, that is a good question and I guess the same question could be asked of the Conservatives. When they had a chance in committee to actually bring something forward for agriculture as they debated the budget, they did not get around to that either.

I am here tonight saying to the government that it needs to take action. It needs to stand shoulder to shoulder with the farmers of this country in one of their more difficult times and to understand that talk is cheap. We need to act.

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11:25 p.m.

Parry Sound—Muskoka Ontario

Liberal

Andy Mitchell LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Madam Chair, I see that we are just about out of time for this debate and I just want to take a moment to thank members on all sides of the House for participating tonight. I am certainly appreciative of the time and energy put in by all members in preparing for this debate and putting their ideas forward. It is important that that be done tonight.

I want to express my personal appreciation to all members, to you, Madam Chair, to your table officers, as well as to all of the parliamentary individuals who have been part of this debate tonight. It is nearly 11:30 p.m. and I thank them for the work they have done here tonight.

Although I am not supposed to do this, I want to thank members of the industry who have been watching this debate here in person all night long. I thank them for their attention here tonight and for the hard work that they have done in respect of all of these issues, working with the government and with other members of Parliament.

Let me close by thanking all the folks and of course Canadians who have tuned in and have had an opportunity to watch this debate, including producers from coast to coast to coast.

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11:25 p.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Madam Chair, I am disappointed in the way the government has come forward tonight with no real clear indication that it is actually going to do anything. The minister just wrapped this up as if it was not really important.

We are here today because of what the member for Timmins—James Bay has coined a “political walk away” from rural Canada. In the May 2 edition of The Hill Times he stated:

For the last dozen or so years, farmers have been left on their own to compete and to cope in the face of increasingly growing international and domestic obstacles. Farmers have adapted. They've grown more efficient, and have moved towards increasing economies of scale. The fact is, they've hit the wall and there just doesn't seem to be any political inclination on the part of the ruling Liberals to find a new way forward.