House of Commons Hansard #65 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was cuts.

Topics

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Mr. Speaker, I found that speech rather interesting, particularly the numerous references to low hanging fruit, as if there were programs out there that were easier to cut than others.

I was wondering if the hon. member might share with us, because we have not been able to get anything out of the ministries on this, what vehicle was used to determine which was low hanging fruit and which was not. What vehicle was used, what consultation was entered into by the government to determine which programs were expendable and which programs were not?

That would be helpful to us in this place as we assess the efficacy of these decisions and the impact that they will have, not only immediately but in the long term, on the citizens of my constituency and constituencies across the country.

I am particularly interested in what vehicle he used with literacy programs for adults in a changing economy when older workers particularly are being laid off. In my area of the country, in northern Ontario, forestry industry older worker need help shifting from one job to another to regain some of the skills that perhaps they had not retained.

What vehicles did you use? What consultation did you do to determine what was really low hanging fruit and how did you arrive at adult literacy--

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Bill Blaikie

Order. The hon. member for Sault Ste. Marie is directing his questions directly to the member and not through the Chair, but we will hear from the hon. member for Tobique—Mactaquac.

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Mr. Speaker, when I was referring to the low hanging fruit, I was talking about the $650 million in the two categories: program funding not used, never been subscribed to, and administrative changes. No one says there were not any tough decisions associated with any practice where we were reducing budget expenditures.

For example, I refer to the member who raised this motion today who led the expenditure review. It was reported in the Ottawa Sun on February 25, 2005, where said that he agonized over every cut but that the government planned to make a regular exercise of dropping low priority programs to fund the Liberal agenda.

With the amounts of dollars that were invested, we looked at $5 billion in new spending. We have talked about a number of these programs over the last couple of days. We have talked about our initiative that the minister announced for older workers.

In my speech I also talked about, and perhaps the member missed it, the funding for an additional $60 million and $70 million in targeted initiatives. Those are the kinds of things we are doing that will make a difference to ridings like his.

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Blair Wilson Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the comments of the hon. member. I have a couple of questions and a comment.

Judging from the details of his speech, how narrow an approach the Conservative government has taken to many difficult problems and specifically with respect to the economy and the finances of this country.

For the past 13 years, the Liberal government that was in charge of our economy recognized that it had to take a balanced approach. It had to cut taxes, it had to pay down debt, and it had to enhance productivity. We need to take a balanced approach and attack all three. We cannot just focus on one.

What that has produced over the last 13 years is a record $13.2 billion surplus that the Conservative government has now inherited. It has also inherited the lowest interest rates in Canada, the lowest unemployment rates in Canada, and a booming economy.

I would like to draw the hon. member's attention to the fact that it was because of a balanced approach to deal with debt reduction, tax reduction and productivity.

Why does his Conservative government refuse to listen to Canadians and take a balanced approach but instead takes a narrow approach? It increased spending to the military, cut government programs, and actually increased taxes to those at the lowest level of our economy.

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Mr. Speaker, I will take exception to a part of his question because we have invested an extra $10 billion over the next two years in social programs.

What is obvious, in the last 13 years of the Liberal government, that any rising tide will lift any boat, including the Liberal government. When he talked about a surplus over the number of years, $9 billion of that was because of additional GST revenue that it got because of a Conservative plan. His previous government benefited from a rising tide that lifts any boat.

Opposition Motion—Economic and Fiscal PositionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform you that I will be splitting my time with the member for Saint-Lambert.

I am pleased to speak to the motion introduced by the Liberal Party, a motion that we will in fact be supporting because it is in the interests of Quebec, and of Quebecers, to denounce the cuts announced a few days ago by the Conservative government. More than anything we have seen since the Conservatives took power, those cuts have demonstrated the ideological motivation behind some of the decisions made by this government. As the name says, that ideology is extremely conservative, not to say neo-conservative.

I am therefore pleased to speak, not because I am pleased that there have been a billion dollars in cuts, but because it is my impression that when I speak today I will be speaking on behalf of the thousands and thousands of people in Quebec who were extremely shocked by the cuts that have been announced and by the places that were chosen for making those cuts.

The fact that recent polls have shown the Conservative Party in third place in Quebec is not surprising. It reflects neither the values of Quebecers nor their vision of the role that a government should play, in particular when it comes to the most disadvantaged people and the causes of groups who are facing particular difficulties.

The first obvious thing is that the public does not agree with the billion dollars in cuts announced by the Conservative government. This is true in Quebec and I imagine it is also true in a large part of Canada. We can see that the values that this party espouses do not reflect the values of Quebecers or, again, of a large proportion of Canadians.

Quebec is a nation that seeks to develop an approach based on community, so that it can deal with the issues of the future, particularly issues relating to globalization, the war on poverty and the need to reconcile economic prosperity and the welfare of the population as a whole. What do we see when we look at where the Conservative Party has decided to make its cuts? The first thing it does is attack the disadvantaged and the groups that stand up for their interests.

I will give you a few examples. I will not address the entire question of culture, because my colleague from Saint-Lambert is more able to do that than I am and I know that he will do it.

There is a cut of $10.8 million in the smoking cessation program for aboriginal people. I would like you to tell me where the logic is in cutting $10 million from this program at a time when everyone agrees that smoking, in society as a whole but particularly among aboriginal people, is a serious health problem.

The budget for women’s groups has been cut. Unfortunately, women are still victims of certain forms of discrimination and they need the support of autonomous groups that are active in promoting equality between the sexes. This approach is probably something that the Conservatives do not like. Funding for those groups is being cut. I will be reading from letters that I have received from some of those groups in my riding.

There has also been a reduction in support for volunteer groups and literacy programs. We are all familiar with the challenge of globalization. The Standing Committee on Finance is currently doing a prebudget tour that focuses on Canadian competitiveness. If the competitiveness of an economy can be attributed to anything, the quality of training of the population is one factor and, at the core of training quality is literacy. It is therefore completely absurd, counter-productive, anti-social and detrimental to the economy to make cuts to these programs.

First of all, this is an attack on those who need our help the most. Here are some personal stories.

Stéphanie Vallée, director of the Centre au coeur des femmes in Saint-Jean-de-Matha, in my riding, wrote me a letter dated October 17, 2006. It reads:

Dear Sir,

We do not appreciate the recent decisions and steps taken by the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Status of Women. We find the cuts to the department, totaling approximately 40%, particularly worrisome, along with the undemocratic steps recently taken by the minister to try to silence women's groups, by radically changing the rules of the women's program, which is responsible for funding at the Status of Women.

We at the Centre au coeur des femmes would like to see that decision immediately reversed and we are counting on you, our member of parliament, to convey our message to the minister. We would like to hear the results of this discussion upon your return from Ottawa.

I hope to have good news for them when I return to my riding. However, for now, like this woman, I am extremely concerned about this government's approach to funding for women's groups.

The Bloc Québécois will continue to fight to have the government reverse this decision. Ms. Vallée can count on the Bloc Québécois.

I have here a letter from a literacy group. It reads:

Dear Sir, For more than 16 years, three grassroots literacy groups in Lanaudière—

The three groups are the Groupe populaire Déclic in Berthierville, the Coopérative de services multiples de Lanaudière in Sainte-Julienne and the Regroupement des assistés sociaux du Joliette métropolitain in Joliette. The letter goes on:

—have worked together on projects as part of the program of joint federal-provincial literacy initiatives.

Over the years, funding received has created one job and supported the three groups, the trainers and the adults in training through the creation of adapted instructional material, training for trainers, a strategic awareness and recruitment plan, and so on.

The groups would like to denounce the cuts the Conservative government has announced to its adult learning, literacy and essential skills program, because these cuts will have a negative impact on each of these organizations, as well as on the adults in training.

We firmly believe that this program plays an important role in helping adults in training, trainers and literacy organizations further their literacy efforts. That is why we are asking again that the full amount earmarked for fighting illiteracy be maintained.

This letter is signed by Odette Neveu, project officer for the group.

Could this be any clearer? In Quebec, at least, not only is there disapproval of the cuts, but there is the hope that the government will reverse its position. If this government would abandon its ideological approach, it could reverse its position.

I said that the first cuts are made in programs for the most disadvantaged. However, cuts were also made to programs for organizations that keep the government in check and that address certain unresolved issues that sometimes paralyze our society.

For example, what is the government doing when it cuts funding for the Law Commission of Canada, slashes Revenue Canada advisory groups and abolishes the court challenges program? These are attempts to stifle civil society organizations that seek to bring about social progress in our society. This is clearly undemocratic. A complex society such as ours need groups to speak on behalf of views that are sometimes in the minority but which, in the long run, end up being those of the majority.

For example, take the rights of same sex couples or the rights of gays and lesbians. Had there not been minority groups—supported by programs such as those I just mentioned— to defend these causes at the outset, our society would not have accepted, as it does now, these realities which are quite normal but were considered abnormal a few decades ago.

They have just created the conditions for social decline in Canada and in Quebec. We do not accept that. Once again, it is to be hoped that the government will reverse gears.

The battle fought on behalf of the Montfort Hospital would never have taken place if there had not been a court challenges program. Minority language groups are being attacked, specifically Francophone minorities outside Quebec.

Not only are they attacking the most needy, the groups who defend them and the anti-establishment groups that work in our civil society to bring about social and democratic progress. In addition they cut the checks and balances and economic reinforcements; $39 million was cut from development of the social economy. I just cannot get over it. Simply, it is not Quebec that will pay the biggest price but rather it is Canada.

Quebec had an advantage in terms of the social economy. This year marks the 10th anniversary of the creation of the Chantier de l'économie sociale. Projects were underway and because the previous government announced the creation of this fund, the projects were completed.

Quebec will lose $5 million, which is completely unacceptable. In the rest of the country, $34 million will be lost. We need a program of this type in order to create business organizations that are a necessary complement to government programs and the initiatives of the private market, the capitalist market, the profit-seeking market.

Once again, I believe the government needs to reverse gears. There is room to manoeuvre in terms of operating expenditures. We are not against making the federal bureaucracy leaner. On the contrary, the Bloc Québécois has been urging that for a long time.

During the first five years, from 2000 to 2004, expenditures increased by 39%—that is, operational expenditures for the bureaucracy including information technology, furniture and pencils, not program expenditures. That represents an increase in operational expenditures of about 8% per year, whereas an increase of 3.5% would have been appropriate considering population and inflation. There is room to make the Ottawa bureaucracy more efficient.

We do not need to strip resources from the most needy, from the groups that work on their behalf and the groups that work to advance democracy, as well as social and economic progress. That is what the Conservatives have done.

They have been unmasked and, in my opinion, unless there is a reconsideration of their policy, their image has been tarnished forever in Quebec.

The House resumed from September 29 consideration of the motion.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Mr. Speaker, I hesitate to interrupt the flow of the debate, but there is a bit of House leaders' business to be conducted.

Discussions have taken place among all parties concerning the debate scheduled for later today on the motion of the member for Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River to concur in the first report of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, and I believe you would find consent in the House for the following motion. I move:

That the debate scheduled to take place later this day on the motion to concur in the first report of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, be deemed to have taken place, the question on the motion deemed put, the recorded division deemed requested and deferred to 5:30 p.m. on Wednesday, October 25, 2006.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to move the motion?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

(Motion agreed to)

(Bill C-290. On the Order: Private Members' Bills:)

September 28, 2006--second reading and reference to a legislative committee of Bill C-290, An Act to amend the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act (Northern Ontario)--Ms. Diane Marleau.

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Ralph Goodale Liberal Wascana, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have one other brief matter.

There have been the usual discussions among the parties and again I think you would find unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:

That Bill C-290, An Act to amend the Electoral Boundaries Readjustment Act (Northern Ontario), be referred after second reading to the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs as opposed to a legislative committee.

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to propose the motion?

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt this motion?

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Electoral Boundaries Readjustment ActPrivate Members' BusinessRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition motion—Economic and fiscal positionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Wellington—Halton Hills Ontario

Conservative

Michael Chong ConservativePresident of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to hon. member from the Bloc Québécois. Canadians expect their hard-earned money to be invested in effective programs that meet their needs. During the last election campaign, our party promised to look at the programs in order to ensure that taxpayers' money was being spent wisely.

Unlike the previous government—which tried to do everything to please everyone—our government makes real decisions. We will implement programs that will produce results, optimize resources and respond to the priorities of Canadians.

Through this review, the government has a strategy to save $1 billion this year and next. This year we will earmark that billion dollars and an additional $5 billion for new programs. That is our plan and I will say again to the hon. member from the Bloc Québécois that it is a good plan.

Opposition motion—Economic and fiscal positionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, in my opinion, the member did not understand what I said in conclusion since there is indeed some fat to be trimmed in Ottawa in operating expenditures, but not in spending on programs that are necessary for the underprivileged, the groups that defend them and those that promote democracy, social progress and economic progress. That is what they took aim at.

Regarding operating expenditures, I explained earlier that they had increased by 8% a year, while the increase in the population and inflation has been 3.5%. So we see there is room. In the announcement made by the Conservatives, scarcely a quarter billion dollars, or $250 million, is going in cuts to operating expenditures. That means that, out of $1 billion, $750 million is being drawn from cuts to useful programs, when some fat could have been trimmed from the Treasury Board, for example, a department that provides no service to the population and that has shown a 26% increase in its operating expenditures over five years. During the same period, in Quebec, we have lowered Treasury Board expenditures by 20%.

At CIDA, direct aid has increased by 20% while operating expenses have increased by 132%. There is definitely some fat to be trimmed there. But that is not where they cut, since three quarters of the cuts were aimed at groups that do work in the field: literacy groups and women’s groups that play an essential role.

We could also have looked at military expenditures. For example, the Department of National Defence budget is over $14 billion. Not one cent was cut. I am not sure that everything in there is useful. This budget should have been examined, not to call into question the fact that our equipment needs to be modernized, once we know what we will do with the Department of National Defence in Canada.

All departments should have been asked to make cuts in operating expenditures before any thought was given to cutting aid to the underprivileged, the groups that defend them and those that promote social development, economic development and democracy in Quebec.

Opposition motion—Economic and fiscal positionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Mr. Speaker, when the motion by the member for Markham—Unionville came before us today, I was quite struck by it. During the 1990s, I was part of a group of people in Hamilton who were very concerned with the changes taking place in our government.

Members will recall in the mid-1990s the Canada health and social transfer was changed in a fashion that caused government transfers to be less to provinces and the ripple effect that went through our economy when those provinces started downloading their responsibilities to the municipalities at a great cost to them. At the same time we saw unemployment insurance change to EI. In the days where some 80% of workers received benefits, it was reduced.

Would it not be reasonable to expect any government, which has a $2 billion surplus in EI funds, not to apply those to general revenues but to put them, instead, into retraining for workers, especially those workers sold out by this softwood sellout?

Opposition motion—Economic and fiscal positionBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Joliette has 20 seconds to reply to the question.