House of Commons Hansard #96 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was grain.

Topics

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Myron Thompson Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like the member to maybe dig into access to information and get the real facts of what happened in the open continental barley market.

Second, whenever a group of farmers, and it is the group as a whole, wishes to have a method of marketing their product, I do not think anyone objects to that.

What I am saying is that the people in my riding who farm, who grow barley, want to have choice. It is not the 1940s and 1950s any more. Many of them have gone to university or college and have taken some courses in marketing. They would like to be able to exercise that. Farming is different now than it was back in those years. They would like to be able to extend their ability to work with the job they have of growing food for our nation into marketing and into value added.

They just want to have the freedom and the choice to do that. There is no way that any board should be allowed, authorized, or whatever the case might be, to prevent that from happening. There is no doubt about it that if the entire farming association in my riding wanted to use the board, I would be the first one to say that we have to defend the board, but that is not the case.

This is Canada. We have a Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and they are saying that under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, they should have the freedom to market their goods.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his vigorous intervention on behalf of farmers in his province and riding.

I was a little astonished. Over the last hour and a half, we have had an opportunity to hear from a member from the Liberal Party, a member from the Bloc and a member from the NDP. The member from the Liberal Party represents Prince Edward Island, which of course does not have a wheat board. The member for Richmond—Arthabaska is from Quebec, which does not have a wheat board. The other member is from the B.C. southern interior, which does not have a wheat board.

I am just wondering what the member's response would be to members of Parliament representing jurisdictions that do not have a wheat board telling Alberta farmers and those farmers in his riding how they should conduct their business.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Myron Thompson Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is a very good question. I indicated in my speech that people who are MPs from the Liberal Party who live in Toronto do not have a wheat board either. The members of Parliament who come from Montreal do not have a wheat board. The city members from Edmonton do not have a wheat board either.

The point is that those areas where they are obligated by law to market their goods, as they are told, through the Canadian Wheat Board live in the Prairies, in the rural areas. There are some who would like to have the choice. It just sounds so easy to me, that living in Canada that should be made possible.

The member from the NDP talked about how there should be extensive studies and whatnot. I do not disagree with that, but the Liberals threw all of that open continental barley market back into the Wheat Board and there have never been any studies on it since then. It is just automatic, and that is the way it is going to be whether they like it or not. That attitude needs to change.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to join in this discussion on what actually started out as a concurrence motion on a report from the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food that I chair.

The member for Malpeque wanted to somehow send a message to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and Minister for the Canadian Wheat Board as to what should be on the ballot question in the upcoming plebiscite on barley. He had quite a convoluted message to deliver. That is certainly his right as a member of Parliament, whether he sits in the Wheat Board area or not, and I have heard this argument here as well.

The member for Malpeque has a history within the region that we serve with his leadership of the National Farmers Union some years ago. He was very effective in throwing wheat at Prime Minister Trudeau when Trudeau asked why he should sell farmers' wheat. The member has since joined that party and is basically asking why he should not control the marketing of farmers' wheat? He is now on the side that he used to oppose. I think he was more effective when he was opposing this issue than he is now as a rubber stamp for the former Liberal government's agenda.

I stood here this morning during the opening of this place with you, Mr. Speaker. We say a little prayer here every day and it talks about how great it is to live in Canada where we enjoy freedom and opportunity. I thought that was quite apropos when I knew this concurrence vote and motion were coming forward today.

This discussion is about the lack of freedom and the lack of opportunity given to some western Canadian farmers. Some farmers agree with this single desk idea and we saw that reverberate through western Canada in the vote that was just held to elect five directors to the 10 member board. We saw that reinforced by a 51% turnout and a portion of those voted against. What we have is a two-third and one-third situation. Minority rights are being trampled on here.

The opposition party claims to be the party of the charter. Those members claim to be all about minority rights and all about this and all about that. When the rubber hits the road, they seem to throw that ideology aside or bend it and twist it, and shape it to fit the issue of the day.

Farmers in western Canada do not only vote for directors. They also vote on the type of product they will grow and market on their own. Some people enjoy growing canola and pulse crops because they are cash crops. These folks defend the board to their last breath. They do not have time to market their wheat and barley so someone else has to do it for them.

The member before me made a good case for the continental barley market that was selling more barley at a better price in the two months that it existed before the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool took the government to court. One of the cooperatives that the member opposite talked about so glowingly has since hit the brink of bankruptcy because it no longer represented the wants and aspirations of the farmer delegates that it supported. That cooperative is now crawling back from the brink and is one of the proponents of market choice. Imagine that. It had an epiphany on the way to the poorhouse and has come back saying this is what farmers want. It has redesigned itself and reoffered itself as a power of choice, as a power of doing things differently in western Canada.

The member for Malpeque spoke about the dire consequences of what would happen. He said the multinationals were going to take over. I have heard that statement flown for years. It has not happened. The multinationals, the Cargills, the Louis Dreyfus' and the Bunges, happen to like the Wheat Board very much. The Wheat Board is a monopoly buyer, so these multinationals now have a single desk to go to. They know the quality is there because farmers in western Canada are the best at producing a quality product. They know the quantity will always be there in certain areas of the Wheat Board. They only have to shop at the Wheat Board desk in Winnipeg. They do not have to go anywhere else. They basically get their job done for them.

The Wheat Board does have an accumulation system, if we want to call it that. It is a great system across western Canada for the bulk commodities that it handles because farmers are growing less of those commodities. It is probably over-designed at this point.

The market share of the board has been sliding. As it ramps up to hang on to the single desk and spend a lot of its money on communications and spin, it is losing farmers' support. We are seeing that in the types of crops that are grown.

I know that certainly in my own farming operation the folks who farmed around me, when I was actively farming before this crazy job, were growing less and less wheat, durum and barley. They grew it as a rotational crop, Mr. Speaker, and you know in your own riding how it is grown. One very seldom sees wheat, durum or barley grown on a summer fallow situation. That also is because of the multi-cropping that is being done and the advent of different farming practices.

The one farming practice that has never changed over the last 60 or 70 years is the marketing opportunities. We have seen products come and go. We have seen crops come and go under the board, but the basic facet, the single desk, even with the changes that have been made in offering price contracts and futures buying and so on, is that we still have to make use of that single desk. Very few farmers are taking that up and the Wheat Board will spin that it is a new program, it is not known, and farmers are not sure how to access it and how to make it work.

The farmers that I talk to are very much keen marketers. They tell me it is administratively heavy, bureaucratically obtuse, and the administration of it is extremely expensive. They just do not bother with it. They just do not bother growing those commodities, but do grow the canolas, the pulse crops, and everything else because they know they can make money at it and they can make the marketing choices when they need to.

I have a real concern. We are coming up to the time of year when the moratorium on clawbacks is about to lift at the end of this calendar year. The Wheat Board, as the vehicle for the cash advance on wheat, durum and barley, has been offering what in my neighbourhood has been averaging way less than $1, in some cases less than 50¢ a bushel on feed barley, but farmers are forced to sell their feed barley, which is of great quantity and quality this year, back through the board because they took the cash advance from the board.

They have to deliver product to pay off the cash advance. They cannot sell barley as feed barley outside the board, take the $3.50 a bushel they can get now for it and pay off their cash advance. They have to deliver the barley to the board. That is costing them in most cases $3 a bushel right off the top.

It is also going to cost them by the fact that 50¢ a bushel will not pay back their $2 a bushel cash advance and, therefore, they will be facing interest and penalties, penalties to the tune of 10% of their cash advance, which could be as much as $10,000, and then interest dated the day they took the cash advance out, not the day they were forced into not adhering to it. So, I have some major concerns with that.

It was great when all the parties agreed to changes to the AMPA legislation that extended those cash advances to other commodities and ramped them up for the grain commodities, but we did not do anything on the punitive side. That is going to come home to bite all members of the House of Commons when our phones start ringing in January. Farmers will be saying they are now being forced into bankruptcy because they were forced to sell their products cheaply, could not address their cash advances which were going to keep them away from the cash advance coming up this year and now the banks are not going to look at them. We have a real avalanche effect coming up in the next couple of weeks.

That speaks to the intransigence and lack of change and flexibility that we have seen on the board. Sure there are 10 elected officials but 5 are appointed and there is also a little thing called the Canadian Wheat Board Act.

I happened to bring a copy of that with me today. There are a lot of different things in it that the members opposite and the folks in the media like to use against the minister but one has to read the act. With the changes that the minister of the day made in 1998, the member for Wascana, he actually made the minister of the Wheat Board God in that he controls everything.

The members on the board, whether they are elected or appointed, have what is called a duty to comply. That is what got our friend, the president, Mr. Measner, and some of his acolytes in trouble. They forgot to read that part of it. They started to think that they could somehow go way out in left field and do their own thing outside of the mandate of the board.

Nowhere in the mandate of the board does it say, “Spend farmers' money to promote yourself”. It is not in here. The so-called gag order that the minister delivered to them said: “Please check out section so and so that says your duty to comply does not allow this third party standing in lobbying for your own self-interest”.

The members opposite spin that in a whole different way, but the reality is the Canadian Wheat Board Act is very succinct. It is a very short document and certainly spells out what can and cannot be done. I wish the members opposite would read it.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has raised the charter issue and its potential relationship to the Wheat Board. If he believes that in fact this is a charter issue and that farmers ought to be able to defend themselves through the charter against the Wheat Board, does he not agree that we should bring back the court challenges program to enable farmers to actually pay for their right to defend themselves under the charter? If in fact he believes it is important to defend the rights of farmers and other minorities, would he urge his government to reinstate and fund the court challenges program, which would give them that facility?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, the unfortunate part of the court challenges program was that people had to hire some Liberal lawyer in order to make it work. The member opposite knows that specious arguments at best were going through the court challenges program. I certainly stand in defence of cutting it. It was not working in the best interests of Canadians at all, but being perverted for its own use by the party opposite.

It is interesting that the member brings up court challenges. The Wheat Board has faced 11 or so, if I have not lost count. The member for Malpeque can correct me if I am wrong, but 11 different challenges under the WTO, the NAFTA and so on. We have won all of those. The unfortunate part is that it has cost tens of millions of dollars to western Canadian farmers. The money comes out of the pooling accounts of the Wheat Board to fight those challenges through the courts of the day.

The only reason why we are facing those challenges is because we are always accused of dumping. That is a catch-all. It has certainly been used as an anti-tariff trade barrier. In reality, those challenges do have merit in that we are still stuck in western Canada alone under the Wheat Board using the KVD, kernel visual distinguishability grading system.

The Wheat Board buys grain from a producer, or some would say steals it, and it sends it to the United States as No. 3 feed. It gets down to the United States with the kernel visual distinguishability and that is a wrinkled kernel. It is then regraded by the Americans through their technology and they say they do not care what it looks like. They grind it up and call it No. 1 milling flour. Canada is charged then for dumping because we have sent in a feed, when in reality it was top grade milling. My farmers lose that value.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the member who just spoke that he tell the women of Canada his views on the court challenges program. It was the court challenges program that provided many opportunities and made many legal breakthroughs for women from coast to coast to coast. I think it is important that women know that party's views.

We have heard a lot from the other side about human rights. We have heard a lot from the other side about choice. We have heard a lot about fair practice and the opportunity to be heard.

I wonder how the members opposite view the processes employed by their government as it relates to choice and human rights, whether it is a gag order, whether it is a selective task force, whether it is selective meetings, or whether it is firing people who disagree with them.

To my mind this is not what a democratic country is all about. To my mind this is a case study that students across the country will view as a “what not to do in government” as time passes.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Speaker, if that is not the pot calling the kettle black, I do not know what is. The member should check out all the work that has been done on ad scam if she wants to see a court case in what not to do. She should check out the costing of her gun registry to see what not to do in public policy.

It is interesting that the member talks about jobs and safeguarding jobs. I heard from other members opposite. The member from Thunder Bay is concerned about his port. At the same time he is condemning the Wheat Board for not loading the salties or ocean going ships right at Thunder Bay. Instead, my farmers are forced to pay for the whole system up through the Great Lakes and the canals, then offloading in Montreal and loading back on to the salties.

At the same time, we have the member who just spoke saying all these jobs in Winnipeg will be lost. I have read reports where the 400 staffers at the Wheat Board do not do any more or better job in volume, quantity and quality, than the five people who do the marketing for Cargill. Why should I and my friends and neighbours as western farmers be forced to support this whole antiquated industry across this country? We cannot do it.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Winnipeg South Centre.

I am pleased to say that I am from Manitoba, and for the people who are concerned that people from outside the Prairies should not be able to comment on this kind of issue--

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:45 p.m.

An hon. member

It's a national issue.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

It is a national issue and it has been probably one of most debated issues in the House this fall. As a matter of fact, it was on the front page of the National Post, which is unusual for a western issue.

If I am not mistaken, this is the third debate that we have had on the Wheat Board. Obviously the Conservatives did not listen to us in the first two. We are hoping that this time they will get the message.

The Conservatives continue to move ahead with this ridiculous proposal despite the fact that all the opposition parties are totally against this, which is actually quite unusual. It does not often happen that all three are against something. We are listening to our people out there. The Conservatives say they are listening to their people, but we are listening to ours as well.

The Conservatives continue to move forward despite the fact that farmers continue to vote in favour of the Wheat Board. The farmers continue to support this institution, but that does not seem to bother the Conservatives at all.

They continue to move forward despite the claim of the premier of Manitoba that “destroying the Wheat Board would have a major economic impact on Manitoba”. The Wheat Board has a downtown location and several employees. I will leave that to my colleague from Winnipeg South Centre to discuss as well.

They continue to move forward despite the fact that the mayor of Churchill has said to stop the insanity, that it would close down his town and every town along the railroad line. Again, we know how important the Port of Churchill in northern Manitoba is becoming with global warming, in which the government does not believe in the first place.

The Conservatives continue to move forward despite the fact that the provinces of Manitoba and Saskatchewan are so frustrated with the anti-democratic process that they are holding their own plebiscites. It is absolutely unheard of for these provinces to hold their own plebiscites; that is how much they trust this Conservative government. They figured they could not count on this government to do the right thing, so they will be doing it.

I can understand why they would feel such frustration. There was a meeting in Saskatoon at one point, an anti-Wheat Board meeting, to which Manitoba and Saskatchewan were invited, but they were asked to sit in the corner and were told not to comment on any issues. I can see why these provinces are now taking the lead on this and making sure that farmers are represented, at least at one level.

The Conservatives tried to muzzle the Wheat Board CEO and now are trying to fire the CEO, which is absolutely ridiculous. He is one of the most respected CEOs in the country. When I look back at how people are trying to defend the Wheat Board, what I think is that they are exactly the kind of people I would like running this corporation. I think they are doing exactly the right thing. They are trying to display the other side of this issue and are doing it very successfully.

The Prime Minister and the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food have to admit that this whole process has been a total disaster, and now we have last weekend's election, in which four out of five members of the board of directors who were elected are pro-single desk. I think it is another confirmation that the Conservatives should be changing their idea on this very important issue. It is becoming a major problem for the government. I think it is realizing that its policy is flawed and is not supported by farmers.

I almost sympathize with the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, but I did say “almost”. I can see the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food receiving his mandate letter from the Prime Minister, which would say that he has one basic objective: dismantle the Wheat Board. That is what he has to do.

Let us think about it for a second. What else has the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food done? He has focused uniquely, through every anti-democratic process he can think of, on dismantling the Wheat Board. I am not sure exactly where the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food stands on this. Internally, he may be thinking that it is absolutely nuts, that he is going against every institution, against the farmers and against the House of Commons. Hopefully the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food does not believe internally that this is the right thing to do.

When does this stop? When does the government reverse its position on this? It is important to note that the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is getting absolutely no support from his Conservative colleagues in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. I can tell members that it is very difficult right now to get some of those people to stand up and speak either for or against the Wheat Board. It is absolutely incredible that people who are elected by 80,000 or 90,000 people do not have the guts to get up and speak on behalf of or against the Wheat Board. For God's sake, these members should get it on the record so that in the next election the voters can judge them on it.

We even have rural Conservative members of Parliament in Manitoba who have householders out uniquely on agriculture, but with not a word on the Wheat Board. Can members imagine that? It is one of the most discussed topics in the House of Commons this fall and for them it is as if it does not exist. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Let us try to get these people on the record. Members of the media have told us that they have called some of those members of Parliament nine or ten times, with absolutely no success. The only person who stood up and who has the courage of his convictions is the member for Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette. I believe he has been ostracized for his efforts. We really appreciate the fact that he has listened to his constituents. He has come through. He is doing the right thing.

I think of the senior minister in Manitoba, who, once again, has said absolutely nothing on the Wheat Board. He is supposed to be there to defend the interest of Manitobans, of Winnipeggers and actually of Canadians, but there is not a word from the minister. He is the regional minister in Manitoba. He has a responsibility to stand up for what is important for Manitobans, but there is not a word from this person.

I will leave the economic impact of this issue to my colleague as well.

Why are our Conservative colleagues from Manitoba not up in arms over this? It is very simple: they are muzzled. On every major issue that we have had over the last 10 months, the members of Parliament, elected by 80,000 to 90,000 people, are not able to speak their piece. I think that is a sad commentary in a very strong democracy such as Canada's.

I would also like to comment on the supply management issue. I come from an urban constituency, and when the people across the aisle say that people who do not live in the Prairies should not comment on this subject, I find that absolutely ridiculous.

My riding is Saint-Boniface, and it is right downtown. I get calls and e-mails from people who are very concerned, people in the country and people in the city. As the NDP member said earlier, this issue concerns people in cities just as much as people in rural areas. People in the cities all have friends or family who live in rural areas. We have great respect for them and we do not want to destroy the institution that serves them so well.

This week, a voter in the riding of Portage-la-Prairie, a rural riding in Manitoba, wrote to me: “The loss [of the CWB] would be an economic setback, a failure of global vision regarding trade and a social disaster in our rural areas”. He closed by saying: “I do not want [thePrime Minister ] to sell the farm to Bush”.

I think there are very serious concerns in rural areas and I am disappointed that people in the Conservative Party are not listening to them. People have to call us in downtown Winnipeg. We see how stressed these people are.

Like my colleague in the Bloc Québécois, I want to talk about supply management. We have to think that this is coming. I know the Conservatives tell us there is no danger and they will not touch supply management. When I asked the question yesterday in the House, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food replied that there was no cause for concern about the Canadian Wheat Board, everything would be fine, there would be votes and it would be done democratically. We have seen the results so far.

The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food also told us yesterday that we did not understand anything about supply management. I can tell you that yesterday I had an opportunity, with a few colleagues, to meet with Mr. Pellerin, the president of the Union des producteurs agricoles, and with Mr. Friesen, the president of the CFA. These people are very well respected in agriculture. I think that even members of the Conservative Party will admit that they are people we should listen to. These people are deeply concerned about what is happening. It is being said that if the Conservatives are able to tear down and dismantle an institution like the Canadian Wheat Board, which works extremely well, why would they stop there? Why would the next step, in fact, not be supply management?

So people are worried. It is not me saying it, it is experts in the field.

It really bothers me that all this is being done without any proof about dismantling the Wheat Board. It is really interesting, as one of my NDP colleagues was saying, that there is absolutely no proof, no evidence, that dismantling the Wheat Board would be favourable to the farmers, and yet the government is moving ahead with it.

The new government, as it likes to call itself, always brags that its members are defenders of democracy, transparency and accountability. On the Wheat Board file alone, there have been so many transgressions that they are discredited on all three counts.

What are the government members afraid of? If they think offering choice is a solution, let them put it to a vote. Let them test the market. Let the producers decide, and not with a manipulated list of voters, not by splitting the vote by crop and not by trying--

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I apologize to the hon. member, but we are out of time for his speech. The hon. member for Yukon.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

First, Mr. Speaker, the member for Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette did speak for his constituents but had the government vote against his bill to protect hunting and fishing in rural areas. Does the member for Saint Boniface think that was some sort of retribution?

Second, why are Conservative members in the west not answering journalists' phone calls about the Wheat Board? Has the member heard that they are hiding from journalists?

Third, does the member see a change in the party from when it was the Reform and then the Alliance, which used to represent constituents? Now, for those who are not in barley, and I am just talking about those farmers who have predominantly wheat, the majority of whom are for the Wheat Board, those members are not speaking for their constituents. Their leader says they should have leadership but should not speak for their constituents.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Mr. Speaker, those are very interesting questions.

On the first point, I believe there is no doubt that the whole muzzling factor is quite obvious. We have seen the Prime Minister do it when it comes to the media. We have seen it with his people here in the House. Members of the media have told us that they have been calling some of those members 9, 10 or 12 times to get at least a comment on the Wheat Board, but they get absolutely nothing. They do not even get called back, or else those members say they cannot comment.

It seems to me that if there is anything that is anti-democratic, that is it. We are elected as members of Parliament by 80,000 or 90,000 people to stand up for our ridings and our constituents. If we disagree with our leader, we should be able to express it in the House.

Although my Conservative colleagues from Manitoba tell me they are getting absolutely no calls or emails from their constituents in rural Manitoba, I cannot believe that for a second if I am getting them in downtown Winnipeg. I am convinced. There is something wrong with that. Obviously their constituents are concerned and those members should be speaking on their behalf.

Lastly, I agree with the member. It is not the Joe Clark Conservative Party. It is not the Leo Duguay Conservative Party. I was speaking to friends this weekend who are members of the Conservative Party. They agree with me that this one is a totally different party. It is a right wing, neo-conservative party. Otherwise, it would have let farmers decide their own destiny.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, in my region of Timmins—James Bay we do have grain farmers. The grain farmers in Ontario made the decision to go to dual marketing. They made that decision because the tonnages are much smaller and most of the grain farms in southern Ontario are very close to the market. It was a very different set-up.

However, the decision was made by the farmers. It was a very clear decision. We did not have Premier Dalton McGuinty threatening to fire the head of the Ontario wheat board. We did not have him gagging the farmers. We did not have the government holding meetings and kicking people out so that only a certain viewpoint could be heard. The farmers made their own decision.

What I find confusing here is the attitude from the government members that they do not feel they actually could win a fair vote, so they are doing everything they can to put the squeeze on a farmer-run organization. As New Democrats, we have always supported the belief that if farmers want to choose a form of marketing system that works for them, farmers have a right to do that.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague a two-part question. First, why does the government have to resort to such tactics to pull this off?

Second, if the Conservatives are serious in going after this ideological drive for their concept of an open market, what does that mean for the dairy farmers? They do not have open markets. They have to go through the supply management board. What does it mean for our poultry industry? What does it mean for our egg industry?

Does the member expect that the Conservatives are going to use the same heavy-handed tactics against the supply management system they are currently employing against the Wheat Board?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague brings up two very good questions. First I would like to thank him for confirming that Mr. McGuinty is a very democratic person. I think it is important that we note that.

In terms of why the Conservatives have to resort to these tactics, I think it is very obvious. I stated in my presentation that they do not have a leg to stand on in that the farmers are against them. The Liberal position from day one has been to let the farmers decide. We have always said that the government should let us have a free and clear vote without manipulating the lists and without trying to fire or putting pressure on the CEO. Let us have one vote with everybody involved. We will respect that decision as long as the question is clear. But the government could not work that out. I appreciate the comment. Obviously the government is resorting to these tactics because doing it the legal way or the right way would not work.

Second, on dairy and poultry farmers, again I totally agree. It is a huge issue. I met some people last night who are immensely concerned. I can tell the member that Quebec farmers are watching this very closely right now. They are saying that if these Conservatives can tear apart a democratically elected board of directors and dismantle this institution, why would they not attack them next?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member for Battlefords—Lloydminster indicated what the government is all about. It is opening the door to U.S. companies to come into Canada. What it could not do 11 different times on the U.S. grain trade, which is to find the Canadian Wheat Board guilty, it is now trying to open the door and trade 460 jobs in downtown Winnipeg for 5 at Cargill. That is the nub of the whole debate today.

We have heard much conversation about the fact that nobody on the other side, bar one, is speaking up for the Canadian Wheat Board. They are critical of those who come from other parts of the country for daring to speak out on behalf of the Wheat Board. However, what is important to get on the record is the economic impact this will have on the province of Manitoba and the city of Winnipeg.

As I said before, the government is quite prepared to trade 460 jobs in downtown Winnipeg for 5 jobs at Cargill Grain. Over 2,200 jobs in Manitoba and in Winnipeg are directly dependent on spinoffs from or direct jobs at the Canadian Wheat Board. We are talking about more than $66 million in wages and salaries and over $3 million that goes to the local government. The government would rather have Cargill reap the profits and Archer Daniels come in and take over these jobs.

The impact on Manitoba and Winnipeg is devastating. As I indicated, the gross provincial income impact is $86 billion. Despite the obvious impacts the Canadian Wheat Board has on the city of Winnipeg, as my colleague has said, there has not been one word of dissent, bar one, from Conservative members across the way. Why are they not standing up? Why are they not looking at the economic impact on the city of Winnipeg, on the province of Manitoba and on the Port of Churchill? Downtown Winnipeg is challenged as is and they are ready to move in and gut it.

It is as though if they repeat their reality over and over again it will be true. The minister says that dual marketing will have no impact. Countless studies and a court case have shown that should dual marketing come into play, it would be the end of the Wheat Board. However, the government believes that if it repeats it, it will have no impact.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question on the motion now before the House.

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Agriculture and Agri-FoodCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

The vote stands deferred until after question period today.

MarriagePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Casson Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour today to present a petition under Standing Order 36 signed by 121 people from all across Canada.

The petitioners call upon Parliament to do all that is necessary to preserve marriage as a union of one man and one woman.