House of Commons Hansard #16 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was parents.

Topics

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Mr. Speaker, in listening to the Liberal speakers, I am left wondering if any of them did any door knocking during the campaign. While the Liberal funded special interest groups made a lot of noise during the campaign, the people at the doorsteps were clearly in favour of our plan. Thank goodness, on January 23 they sent a strong message in favour of a new Conservative government with an actual plan.

First, a majority of parents would not have benefited from a Liberal plan. Many of the parents to whom I have talked have one parent stay at home and they have gladly sacrificed income to make that decision for their family. Under the Liberal plan they would have received nothing to help them out.

How is that fair? On what level is it fair that those people would pay through their taxes, after sacrificing so much, to send their neighbours' kids to day care? I do not understand.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am puzzled by the member's question.

First, I am curious to know how many doors he knocked on in his riding, especially since the council of the city of Edmonton passed a resolution supporting the establishment of national child care program, a federal and provincial child care program.

In the city of Mississauga, 1,100 children are on a waiting list. Trust me, I did not force the parents to sign the waiting list. Parents are looking for child care spaces. If the government looks the other way, parents will know what that government stands for. It is not listening to them.

Nobody is against the $1,200 a year. I am all for it. I think all families could use it. However, what will that do to create child care spaces? Parents, who work, earn money and pay taxes, expect their government to work for them and to work on their behalf.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, I understand the hon. member comes from Ontario. In the year 2007, Ontario will lose close to a billion dollars in child care funding. Then it will lose another half a billion dollars in 2008 and the same amount in 2009. It is a tremendous amount of money.

When the Liberal government was in power, why did not enshrine a national child care act in legislation so it would be protected for future generations of children?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I remind the member that the Liberal government was the one that signed 10 agreements with 10 provinces, which would have built a child care program. If it were not for the party opposite, this plan would have been implemented and built. Unfortunately, the funding for Ontario, and other provinces as well, is gone.

We had a vision for our working families. We had a vision for building child care spaces. We will continue to defend working families and advocate for building high-quality child care that is accessible to everybody across the country.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I knocked on 40,000 doors in the last two and a half years and I can tell the member that the message we got was clearly on our side.

There are 850,000 children under the age of six in the province of Ontario. If we do the math, that is a little over $1 billion every year. Even if I accept the member for Trinity—Spadina's math that Ontario would lose $2 billion over three years, it will get $3 billion to replace that over the next three years.

Could the member comment on that?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Speaker, the reality is, some people are trying to position this as a zero sum game. This is not a zero sum game. There are parents who stay at home and there are parents who want to send their kids to child care.

I take his word that people supported his plan. I support the plan of $1,200 to a family. Families will support that. However, has he asked them if they want child care spaces in that city? Has he asked them if they are having difficulty finding child care spaces? Those are the questions he should ask those parents. Those are the questions I asked. I know what the answers were, and the member knows--

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Compton--Stanstead.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member from Laval.

Today's debate is becoming surrealistic. The Liberals want to convince us that their family policy is better than the Conservatives’; the Conservatives are trying to have us think that the $1,200 family allowance is better than the Liberals’; and the NDP is attempting to convince us that its family policy is better than the ones proposed by the other two parties. None of these three parties seems to realize that family policies are the exclusive jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces.

For the Bloc Québécois, the best family policy for Quebec is the one developed by the members of the National Assembly, in collaboration with civil society in Quebec. It is not surprising that Canada wishes to acquire a child care system based on the Quebec model, since Quebec’s is the best model ever, according to the OECD, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. The creation of these centres, however, is not within federal jurisdiction, but within the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces.

The early childhood centres contribute a lot to Quebec. For example, they make it possible for women to get back into the labour market after having a baby. For someone earning a small salary and wishing to get back into the labour market, it is much better to pay $7 a day for child care than the $30 that it would normally cost. Quebec developed a family policy for itself in order to help those young women and the young women who wish to go back to school but cannot afford to pay $150 a week for child care. Once again, it is preferable to pay $7 a day. Early childhood centres are non-profit agencies that provide a structure for children to help them progress in society.

The $7 a day early childhood centres have an economic impact. These women who are returning to the labour market pay income taxes to the government. If the early childhood centres cost $150 a week, we do not think that these same women and these young families would get back into the labour market. We are thus investing in our young people and our children, as well as in the young women and young men who wish to get back into the labour market. This also helps our children grow. Early childhood centres are like little schools where children learn to grow. They are also in contact with other children and are properly supervised during the day. Thus they can progress. This is the choice made by Quebec and it is a very good investment.

The Liberal motion mentions that proactive intergovernmental measures are necessary. That is false, because Quebec did not give permission and certainly did not wait for whomever it might be to create its own child care system.

I have nothing against the provinces creating child care centres. That is their choice. Each province should invest in that, it is not up to Parliament to do it for them, or to impose its terms. Family policy is under provincial jurisdiction, because it is closely connected with the transmission of values and culture. And in that vein, child care centres socialize and educate our young children.

In any event, Quebeckers do not want their money to be invested in federal interference, unlike the Liberals who have interfered in the provinces’ jurisdictions for over 100 years. Child care centres must absolutely remain under provincial jurisdiction, and in Quebec they must be managed by Quebeckers. But we will give this a chance.

The Bloc Québécois is pleased with the agreement for $1.1 billion that came out of the child care agreement. Unfortunately, Quebec is losing $800 million because the Conservatives have thrown that agreement overboard, even though it was welcomed in Canada and in Quebec.

Canada had its child care centres and Quebec had its financial contribution.

The Conservatives are now offering families a taxable benefit of $1,200. The Bloc does not oppose this measure in principle, but it could be unfair and it has serious flaws. Instead, the Bloc proposes a refundable tax credit that will be equitable for families.

The government has fixed some of the flaws; for instance, its benefit will not affect the national child benefit. This is only a start, which the Bloc welcomes, but there are other things to be done in order to keep moving forward.

The Bloc Québécois also welcomed the government’s plan to put an end to the fiscal imbalance. Obviously, the $800 million that Quebec has lost is included in the solution. We are extremely pleased.

In the meantime, the fiscal imbalance must certainly not be exacerbated, as the Liberals are still proposing. When the fiscal imbalance is corrected, Quebec and the provinces could be in charge of their own investment choices, which include education, health and child care.

As well, since Quebec established its early childhood centres, Quebec and Ottawa have been pocketing even more of the taxpayers’ money. The government confiscates $250 million from parents in Quebec, an average of $1,300 per child. That is more than the taxable $1,200 that the government is offering them in the recent budget.

The Bloc Québécois has for years been calling on the government to transfer the money it is saving on the backs of Quebeckers to Quebec. However you look at it, those are our taxes. Transferring it back would enable Quebec to invest in its family policy, among other things.

The Bloc Québécois is grateful for the concern of Canadians who want to raise our children, but we will tell them no, thank you, because we are grownups and we prefer to look after it ourselves.

Quebec has an effective child care system that is the envy of the rest of Canada and the world. We are very proud of it.

I would like to point out that if the fiscal imbalance were solved—better yet, if we were a sovereign country—we would not be here debating a societal choice that should be made only by Quebeckers. While we wait for that magical moment to come, the Bloc Québécois will continue to put its heart and soul into defending the interests of Quebec’s families.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Nepean—Carleton Ontario

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board

Mr. Speaker, let us have some honesty.

I am sorry that there is a false impression in this debate, which has nothing to do with the facts.

If the government had made the wrong decision to continue to spend $1 billion a year to live up to the previous Liberal government's agreement with three provinces, there would have been only enough money for a day care space for 1 in every 20 kids. The other 95% would have received nothing at all. Those numbers are very easy to arrive at.

If we assume that it costs $40 a day for a day care space, we multiply that with the number of working days in a year and the number of children under six that live in Canada, we find that only 1 in 20 of those kids would have been afforded a day care space with $1 billion. It is very easy math. In fact, it is more like 1 in 23, but I will round it off and say 1 in 20.

That confirms what the lobbyists, who support the Liberal day care plan, have already said. They have said that to create a universal government run day care program would cost around $10 billion to $15 billion. Instead of giving 1 in 20 kids a day care space, why not give every single preschooler the choice in child care allowance?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question, but let us not forget that there is provincial responsibility as well, considering the money transferred from the federal government to an early childhood centre. It is not a question of counting on just the federal government, because in Quebec we have a part of the $805 million intended for early childhood centres. All the same, the provincial government also makes an investment, which is complementary.

So that is why we are calling for the $800 million to be returned, without the federal government's interference in our jurisdictions. We have developed them and will continue to do so.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, the government proposal with regard to child care spaces is to provide tax credits of $10,000 to corporations to create spaces. The member will be very interested in this. There is a jurisdictional issue. The federal government, constitutionally, is not responsible nor does it have jurisdiction over child care. The OECD characterized day care in Canada outside of Quebec as being glorified babysitting.

Does the member share my concern that in fact any child care spaces that would be created by corporations would not be regulated in any way, nor would they constitute anything other than more glorified babysitting?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure I have understood correctly because of the corporation. However, the early childhood centres remain under provincial jurisdiction. We will continue to work on this point.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Discussions have taken place between all parties and I believe you will find consent for the following motion: That at the conclusion of today's debate on the opposition motion in the name of the member for St. Paul's, all questions necessary to dispose of this motion be deemed put, a recorded division deemed requested and deferred to the end of government orders on Monday, May 8, 2006.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Does the opposition whip have the consent of the House to move the motion?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

There is no consent. Questions and comments. The hon. member for Trinity--Spadina.

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Mr. Speaker, Quebec has the best child care program in Canada. It is the envy of a lot of parents outside Quebec. However, thousands of parents in Quebec are desperately waiting for child care. There is a long waiting list.

In the budget $800 million will be cut from Quebec, funding that Quebec parents desperately want as the member said. Also, in the Conservative budget $7 billion will go to corporate tax cuts. I am not sure that there will be any money left to deal with the fiscal imbalance. On top of that, the cheques that are going to Quebec, the $80 a month cheque, will not be from the Quebec government. It will be from the federal government.

Given all that, how can the hon. member and her party support this new Conservative budget, especially for all the kids in Quebec?

Opposition Motion--Child careBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Speaker, the $805 million the Quebec government will receive in the agreement for this year has already been invested in one way or another in the early childhood centre policy.

The Bloc will continue to fight to get the $800 million back in order to correct the fiscal imbalance. It is true that people are still waiting for spaces in early childhood centres. So the fight to settle the fiscal imbalance must go on, as must the fight for all Quebec families and for our very generous early childhood centres, to keep them generous as they are now.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, discussions have taken place between all parties and I believe you will find consent for the following motion. I move:

That at the conclusion of today's debate on the opposition motion in the name of the member for St. Paul's, all questions necessary to dispose of this motion be deemed put, a recorded division deemed requested and deferred to the end of government orders on Monday, May 8, 2006.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Does the opposition whip have the consent of the House to move the motion?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

(Motion agreed to)

Coalition for a Nuclear Free PeelStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the many constituents of Brampton--Springdale, I would like to voice my support for a nuclear free Peel. As one of the fastest growing regions in the country, we must ensure the highest quality of life is provided to children, seniors and families, and that includes a nuclear free region.

Radioactive waste should not be allowed to be trucked through densely populated urban areas, and neither should the incineration of nuclear waste be permitted.

I commend the many citizens of Brampton--Springdale and the Coalition for a Nuclear Free Peel for fighting this charge and this change, and I hope this leadership will ensure that Brampton--Springdale does remain nuclear free. It is important for the children, the seniors and the families who live there.