Debates of June 7th, 2006

Criminal Code

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am referring to three approaches to the whole question of mandatory minimums. The first is an evidence-based inquiry. Studies show that they are neither a deterrent nor are they effective. The second is a principled approach, and I have shown that it marginalizes, if not undermines, the proportionality principle which is at the core of the sentencing principles in the Criminal Code. The third is are they effective? I have shown that the evidence discloses the fact they may have adverse impacts.

As I have constantly stated, in the matter of gun related crimes, we enacted 20 mandatory minimums in 1995. In that particular instance we felt the evidence on the specificity of gun related crimes allowed for modest approaches to mandatory minimums, not exaggerated and excessive approaches to mandatory minimums.

The House resumed from June 1 consideration of the motion that Bill C-294, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (sports and recreation programs), be read the second time and referred to committee.

Income Tax Act

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-294 under private members' business.

Call in the members.

Before the taking of the vote:

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Since this is the first recorded division on private members' business, I would remind all hon. members that the division will be taken row by row, starting with the sponsor then proceeding with those in favour of the motion, beginning in the back row of the side of the House on which the sponsor sits.

Then, after we have gone through all the rows on this side of the House, the hon. members on the other side of the House will have their turn, starting again with the last row. Those opposed to the motion will be called in the same order.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #15

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

I declare the motion carried.

Accordingly the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Finance.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It being 6:05 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

DEVELOPMENT ASSISTANCE ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

moved that Bill C-293, An Act respecting the provision of development assistance abroad, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, this is an important bill which I hope we will have the opportunity to debate thoroughly over the next hour and that members will see fit at the end of the hour's debate to support the bill. It is a bill about accountability and transparency, favourite buzzwords of members opposite. The bill is a challenge to the government to come good on its rhetoric.

In the last Parliament the foreign affairs committee moved the following report:

We are writing to urge you to introduce legislation which establishes poverty reduction as the aim for Canada's Official Development Assistance (ODA). A legislated mandate for Canada's ODA would ensure that aid is provided in a manner both consistent with Canada's human rights obligations and respectful of the perspectives of those living in poverty.

I submit that Bill C-293 does exactly that.

We are not, however, simply urging more dollars be spent. Those dollars must also be spent effectively and in ways ensuring more accountability. In our view, this legislation should include an unequivocal statement of purpose that poverty reduction is the central lens through which Canada's aid program should be delivered. Key elements of a legislated mandate must include mechanisms for monitoring; accountability and reporting to Parliament; and enhanced public transparency. Such legislation would increase the effectiveness for Canada's aid contribution of aid spending, a more focused accountable approach to more and better aid.

That was the 12th report of the committee. When it submitted the report, it referenced a letter that was signed by the then leader of the opposition, now the Prime Minister, the then and current leader of the Bloc Québécois, and the then and current leader of the NDP.

Subsequently, the House adopted the 12th report of the committee, and referred to a letter signed by the then leader of the opposition, the leader of the Bloc Québécois and the leader of the NDP.

I am quoting directly from the letter:

To accepting and to act upon the near-unanimous recommendations of Committee witnesses--

It is not just the committee's report. It is based upon the near unanimous recommendations from the witnesses who appeared before the committee from 2003 to date. It goes on:

--to honour the Millennium Development Goals and to commit immediately, through a plan, to increase Canada’s aid budget by 12 to 15% annually to achieve an aid level of 0.5% of Canada’s Gross National Product by 2010 and 0.7% of Canada’s GNP by 2015;

The letter also says:

To improve our aid effectiveness by strengthening the partnership with civil society, both in Canada and overseas;

To introduce legislation prior to the next federal budget which establishes poverty reduction as Canada's Official Development Assistance (ODA) goal, as outlined in the historic February 17, 2005 letter from all Opposition Leaders to the Prime Minister, to ensure that aid is provided in a manner consistent with Canada's human rights obligations and respectful of the perspectives of those living in poverty.

This bill cannot be about more aid as that would require a royal recommendation, but it can be about better aid, more focused aid. I respectfully submit that is exactly what this bill is about.

This bill cannot deal with an increase in development aid as this requires a royal recommendation. However, this bill does deal with improving development aid.

The scheme of the bill is to set up an advisory committee which shall advise the minister of his or her development assistance. The committee will hold a candle, so to speak, to the ODA proposals and ask the minister three questions. The first and most important question is, does the ODA contribute to poverty reduction? The second question is, does it take into account the perspectives of the poor? The third question is, is it consistent with Canada's international rights obligations?

The idea of this bill is to bring focus to poverty reduction consistent with Canadian values, foreign policy and international human rights standards.

The purpose of this bill is to concentrate on reducing poverty and promoting compatibility with Canadian values, foreign policy and international human rights standards.

At one level it may be argued that this bill is so vague that one could drive a Mack truck through it. On the other hand, one could expect that the government, or more accurately the department, would probably say that it hamstrings the minister.

It could be argued that the bill is too vague to carry out the changes required to improve development aid. For its part, the government, specifically the department, will attempt to show that the bill will handcuff the minister needlessly.

My argument is that it does neither. It does not hamstring the minister and it is not so vague as to be useless. I am trying to ensure that our ODA is not merely flavour of the month. It seems to me that if the committee were to force the minister to justify his or her proposed aid in light of the three questions I read, it would actually help the minister avoid the flavour of the month pressures.

Any minister, whether a Liberal minister or a Conservative minister, has all kinds of requests for ODA. Every request seems to be more compelling than the last request. In my view, the minister now has the perfect response and the perfect response is this legislation. Effectively, ministers would be able to say that they are legislated by this bill to answer three questions before this advisory committee. They, therefore, cannot divert their ODA money to things such as security interests, anti-terrorism initiatives or other foreign policy initiatives no matter how worthy.

Canada cannot be all things to all people at all times. From time to time others have made the observation that from time to time we are frequently nothing to everybody. From time to time we have depleted our budgets on peripheral issues and not been as effective as we could have been or should have been.

We know that civil society is crucial to the delivery of aid. If it were not for organizations such as World Vision Canada raising matching funds and developing donors, our effectiveness would diminish substantially. That is why Bill C-294 has received such wide support.

The Canadian Council for International Co-operation and my friend Gerry Barr have been of tremendous help. Literally dozens of letters and dozens of e-mails testify to the importance of the bill. In fact, quite a number of my colleagues over the course of this day and previous days have come up to me and said that they support this initiative in part because of the letters, e-mails and telephone calls that they have received.

Bill C-293 is at the top of mind for many Canadians and many Canadian organizations. There are 178 MPs in this House who signed the reduction of poverty initiative, making poverty history. They signed a much more comprehensive document. One element of that comprehensive document had to do with accountability for aid. The are 178 MPs that appear on the face of it to be behind this initiative. Behind those 178 MPs are literally thousands of Canadians.

Bill C-293 also enjoys the support of the NDP. The hon. member for Halifax has a similar bill and I assume she will be speaking in favour of this bill. The member for Prince Edward—Hastings of the Conservative Party has a bill of similar nature and principle which tries to achieve the same purpose. I am given to understand that the Bloc may also have a similar bill for consideration shortly.

We also have the report of the foreign affairs committee and the concurrence of the House in the last Parliament. Finally, we have a letter sent to the former Prime Minister signed by all three opposition party leaders including the current Prime Minister.

Where is the resistance? I think we would find some bureaucratic resistance to this private member's bill calling for transparency and accountability. Clearly, it limits bureaucratic ability to direct aid, aside from an accountability to this committee.

There will be arguments that it requires a royal recommendation to give a per diem to committee members. God forbid that we should offer to pick up the expenses of these self-sacrificing Canadians.

Then we will hear bureaucratic-speak such as “We need to get this right and we need to do this carefully”. That is bureaucratic code language for “Let us bury this private member's bill in la la land in the hope that Parliament will dissolve prior to royal assent”.

Then we will hear arguments like “We do not like petitions from non-citizens telling us that aid is being given in a fashion inconsistent with the purposes of this act”. Heaven forbid that the recipients of the aid should actually have some say about how it is being used.

Then we will hear arguments about the definition of aid, whether we should use the OECD definition or a made in Canada definition. I can just see Stephen Lewis rolling his eyes as we speak saying something like, “Oh my goodness, people are dying and you are arguing about definitions”.

There will be other arguments, some even sincere and frankly would lead to an improved bill, but mostly the arguments from the government's side will be designed to sideline the bill. It seems to me that a government that prides itself on transparency and accountability is being supremely hypocritical by not supporting this bill.

I would like to end by quoting from a report called “Establishing a legal basis for Canada's official development assistance”, written by Vicky Edgecombe in January 2005. She ends her report, which I would recommend for members to read, in this fashion:

If legislation regarding Canada's ODA were to incorporate the above-mentioned recommendations, it would help to set Canada apart as a leader among OECD nations. In effect, it would demonstrate that Canada is serious about addressing global poverty as the overriding development objective in the 21st century.

I therefore leave members with this question. Does Canada want to be a leader on this issue or does Canada want to be a follower?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. On Wednesday you invited comments on whether Bill C-293 requires a royal recommendation.

This is a separate matter from the stated purpose of the bill, which all members would agreed, that foreign aid should support international development and the values of freedom, democracy, the rule of law and human rights abroad. However, the bill as drafted raises important procedural issues.

Clause 6 would oblige the Minister of International Cooperation to establish an advisory committee for international development cooperation. Subclause 6.(3) states that the committee shall consist of up to 20 members. Subclause 6.(7) provides that the members will be paid remuneration and expenses for their services in amounts that the minister may set. These provisions have financial implications.

On February 8, 2005 the Speaker ruled on a similar case in which additional commissioners were added to an existing commission. In particular, Bill C-280, in the 38th Parliament, which provided for additional appointments to the Canada Employment Insurance Commission, was found by the Speaker to require a royal recommendation.

Bill C-293 would create an entirely new committee and the appointment of its members would similarly require a recommendation. I note that in the February 8, 2005 ruling the Speaker stated:

Where it is clear that the legislative objective of a bill cannot be accomplished without the dedication of public funds to that objective, the bill must be seen as the equivalent of a bill effecting an appropriation.

I note that clause 7 of Bill C-293 would provide for any resident of a developing country to petition the committee outlining the deficiencies in Canada's development, seeking corrective action, and require the committee to process that petition. It would also require the minister to respond to that petition stating:

--any corrective action required by the competent minister and the period within which the action shall be taken as well as the facts and reasons on which the competent minister’s decision was based.

This means that in addition to the remuneration of the advisory committee members, Bill C-293 would cause new expenditures in two ways.

First, a new advisory committee, and the support of that committee, would be an entirely new function not authorized under existing legislation.

The committee would clearly require funding in order to fulfill its statutory responsibilities, which would include: receiving, recording and forwarding petitions, in subclause 7.(2); making any examinations and enquiries necessary to monitor ministers' replies to petitions, in subclause 7.(6); and preparing and submitting annual reports to the minister, in clause 8.

Second, the bill would impose new statutory responsibilities on ministers, which would require new expenditures, including: sending an acknowledgement and reply to the petitioner and the committee, in subclauses 7.(3) and 7.(4); and creating and submitting reports which are newly required by this legislation, in clauses 9 and 10.

The Speaker has, in past rulings, emphasized that a royal recommendation is required for a new and distinct expenditure which falls outside existing departmental responsibilities.

I submit that Bill C-293 would create a new statutory requirement for monitoring ministerial decisions on development assistance through petitions and for legislatively required responses.

I would note that Canada currently provides development assistance to over 150 countries. Creating an advisory committee allowing any resident of those countries to petition the government and requiring the Minister of International Cooperation to provide a detailed response to such residents would mean significant changes which would have important financial implications for the government.

In addition, the statutory requirement for the Minister of International Cooperation and the Minister of Finance to prepare reports on their activities and operations under this bill would be an entirely new function as some of those reports would be on activities newly required by Bill C-293.

The government supports the use of international development assistance in reducing poverty abroad and improving international human rights.

However, as I have indicated, the bill as drafted has financial implications which require a royal recommendation and, therefore, the bill is not procedurally in order.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as predicted in my speech, the government will try to derail this bill, and of course, this is the first salvo in its exercise.

It is a premature point of order, I respectfully submit, since the Speaker is not obliged to make a ruling until this bill arrives back in the House. So all of the comments, some of which might even have a scintilla of merit, are entirely premature and can be dealt with at another time in another place. I would respectfully ask you, Mr. Speaker, to rule this point of order out of order.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to have the member's opinion but the fact is that the bill can be repaired either at committee or at report stage. Right up until the end of third reading the minister can walk into the House and provide a royal recommendation, in which case the Speaker will not be not be making a final determination until the end of third reading.

Notwithstanding that the member would like to rule it out of order, it is not in his purview and therefore it is not a point of order.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is profoundly disappointing to think that some of the most important collaborative work that I have seen happen in this Parliament and at the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development could be reduced to procedural points of order so totally designed to derail this important debate.

As has already been pointed out, this matter of a royal recommendation does not have to be ruled on until the bill comes back to the House for third reading. More important, this is a very destructive attempt to ignore the fact that government members have already been told in committee that the sponsors of the two identical bills that are before us have indicated that they would be extremely open to amendments that would deal with the problem that has now arisen. This is a pure obstructionist tactic.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to make it abundantly clear that I support the comments made by the member for Mississauga South and the advice you gave at the outset of this session that royal recommendations would be stayed until at least third reading. I understand the position taken by the government. I sat in that position not too long ago. We did not have a problem with this issue.

I think the House should be guided by the wisdom of your initial decision, Mr. Speaker.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I thank all members for their submissions. I understand that the Speaker has taken many of these arguments into account. He has already indicated that a definitive ruling on the procedural admissibility of this bill will be made before the question is put at third reading.

Given that today's debate is about the second reading of the bill, the matter may proceed.

The honourable Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Scarborough--Guildwood and I have had some deep discussions about this issue and he knows full well that most members, if not all members in the House, feel very strongly about the need for Canada to make a commitment to helping people less fortunate than us. We would like to see this go forward.

However, in an honest response to this private member's bill, it raises some very serious questions. I respect the fact that some of the NGOs and very respected NGOs have played a part in drafting this private member's bill. My great concern is that it does not address the participation and involvement of those NGOs that this government would like to see. In my view this was completely left out.

Could the member comment on why that very critical part of the delivery of aid was left out of this private member's bill?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the appointment of the committee, there is no restriction on who the minister may appoint. The minister may or may not appoint representatives of NGOs. It is entirely up to the minister at the time. I am not quite sure whether that addresses the specific question.

If the member is asking whether there are any restrictions on NGOs to deliver aid, if the ODA goes through the committee and meets the three-fold test that I talked about on the reduction of poverty, there is no restriction on any NGO being able to participate in that. I cannot see how the bill would be restrictive in any fashion to any NGO, either operating or contemplating the operation, as long as the ODA meets the three-fold test.

The member has acknowledged the huge support in the House for this bill and I would encourage the hon. member to consider letting the debate collapse so we can get it to committee and discuss these points on a more intimate basis, shall we say.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like some of the member's thoughts on accountability. The bill refers to the “competent minister”, an “advisory committee” which will advise the minister in the exercise of his or her powers, and “development assistance”, meaning official development assistance as defined by the OECD.

With all these layers of responsibility and direction, who does the hon. member see as being accountable under the bill?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Mr. Speaker, any minister who is responsible for delivering ODA would be an accountable minister. On the face of it, it would be the CIDA minister because the CIDA minister delivers most of the aid for the government.

However, the Minister of Finance also delivers aid in a certain manner as well. His ODA deliverables have to flow through them. Frankly, there are other ministers who do deliver small envelopes of ODA and they would be the accountable ministers. We phrased it that way because we did not want it limited to the CIDA minister.

The second issue has to do with the OECD and it has a longstanding definition of what constitutes poverty, which is the definition we adopted. I am a little open on that idea, although I am a little worried that if we change definitions to in house definitions that those in house definitions will be stretched and the gut purpose of the bill will be circumvented. If the gut purpose of the bill is poverty alleviation, then I do not want to use definitions to effectively circumvent that issue as well.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the proposals in Bill C-293, an act respecting the provision of development assistance abroad.

Development assistance is an integral part of our international policy and the government places a very high priority on ensuring its effectiveness and efficiency and increasing accountability for results.

As an early demonstration of our commitment to international development assistance, the government has already increased Canada's international assistance budget by $320 million in the budget of 2006.

Development is a unique challenge and success requires vision, long term programming and the careful management of programs for country-wide improvements. It also requires support for change, strengthening governance, respect for the law and human rights.

Canada is recognized as a leader in the development community. To continue to lead, we must ensure that real results from our assistance flow to poor people in developing countries.

We need clear and precise objectives for Canada's development assistance program. In addition, we must provide clear direction for all government departments and agencies involved in disbursing Canadian development assistance and ensure coherence across government so that we speak with one voice and deliver one coordinated development assistance program.

I congratulate the hon. member for tabling a bill that focuses on the reduction of poverty and sustainable development. However, while Bill C-293 is well intentioned, it does not adequately address the issues to which I have referred. In fact, Bill C-293 would undermine Canada's ability to set its own agenda for its development assistance program.

It does that in several ways. First, under clauses 3 and 4 of the bill, it clearly states that development assistance is defined by the development assistance committee of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. While Canada is a proud member of the OECD and respects internationally agreed upon definitions for development assistance, any definitions to be legislated must be wholly Canadian.

Second, Bill C-293 would require the government to establish an advisory committee that would provide advice to the Minister of International Cooperation, as well as review and report on Canada's development assistance program. However, the advisory committee is flawed.

The mandate of the committee would place it in an unavoidable conflict of interest. For example, the committee is to advise the Minister of International Cooperation on the exercise of his or her power and then subsequently review and report on its own advice. This is a conflict of interest.

Furthermore, the government is committed to increasing accountability for all of its programs and it is essential that any organization, body or individual with authority or influence over government programs be held accountable, especially to Parliament as the final custodian of accountability for the Canadian people. The proposed committee demonstrates no such accountability.

Third, the bill establishes a formal process for individuals in developing countries to petition the Government of Canada directly should they believe that the development assistance being provided to their country is inconsistent with the purposes of the act. To formalize in legislation such a petition process would be costly, complex and cumbersome.

We currently have systems in place to address concerns that foreign citizens may have, either directly to our ministers or through our missions abroad.

The legislation would not only undermine Canada's sovereignty, but it would escalate administrative and financial costs and lengthen the time between consideration and approval of projects and programs and their actual implementation.

There are likely to be hidden costs, both in time and in money, associated with the establishment of the advisory committee, the petition system and the reporting requirements. The impact of these arrangements on programming within developing countries is real. The impact on aid effectiveness could only be detrimental.

This government is committed to working with developing countries to give them and their citizens the tools they require to address their development needs. To this end, we are embarking on a process to renew partnership programming. Through their linkages with the citizens of developing countries, Canadian non-state actors from civil society and the private sector have provided a bridge to the ultimate beneficiaries of Canadian aid.

This initiative aims to: first, clarify the role and contribution of Canadian partners to international development; second, examine aid effectiveness principles; third, strengthen accountability and results in partnership programming; and fourth, reflect Canadian values in international development cooperation.

This government recognizes the value and the expertise that Canadians have and can provide in our efforts to help the world's poor. This minister is working to ensure that they play a significant role in Canada's development assistance policy. In addition, we are looking at mechanisms to strengthen accountability and transparency and will ensure that they are consistent with the federal accountability act that is currently before the House.

We welcome the spirit and the intent of Bill C-293, but the bill will fail to deliver what is required: a clear focused mandate for Canada's development program, a well-defined accountability for those charged with delivering that mandate, and the ability of Canada to work directly with our developing country partners to set an agenda that meets their needs and respects the wishes, desires and trust of the Canadian people. This is a flawed bill put forward for good reason and we recommend to the House that it not be adopted.

[Caroline St-Hilaire, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in today's debate on Bill C-293, an act respecting the provision of development assistance abroad.

The basic purpose of this bill is to ensure that international assistance is used to eliminate poverty, which the Bloc Québécois fully subscribes to. We feel it is essential that the principle of eliminating poverty be enshrined in law.

Furthermore, I want to remind hon. members that last November we introduced Motion M-308, calling on the previous government:

[to] increase Canada's international assistance through a commitment firstly to increasing in a stable and predictable manner amounts for government development assistance ... and secondly by enshrining in law that the mandate and purpose of government development assistance is poverty reduction.

International assistance is a major issue and a daunting challenge. The Bloc Québécois has always been in favour of a greater and more effective increase in development assistance. What is more, with what is currently happening in various corners of the globe, where millions of people have been rocked by natural disasters, unending political conflicts, famine and the spread of deadly disease, we must act and Canada has the means to do so.

It is obvious that in a context of increasingly serious and persistent needs, international assistance must be allocated fairly, but must also be allocated in a way that is maximized, effective and sustainable.

There must also be greater transparency in how assistance is managed. Indeed, in her February 2005 report, the Auditor General of Canada raised some shortcomings in CIDA's management, namely in the verification and transparency of the assistance allocated.

The more effective the assistance, the greater the chances of reducing poverty and achieving the UN Millennium Development Goals, to which Canada is a signatory.

We have often pointed out in the House of Commons that one of the ways to fight terrorism is to intensify cooperation and more specifically international assistance. Poverty is the most significant weapon of mass destruction on the planet. It is also fertile ground for terrorists, which is why it is so important to increase international assistance and to promote solid and effective cooperation.

However, this assistance has to be used for humanitarian purposes and not for national security purposes. Since the events of September 11, 2001, there seems to be some pressure on countries to allocate some of the assistance they receive to security measures and to fighting terrorism. These objectives are highly commendable, but international assistance is not the right vehicle.

For example, the Canadian Press reported recently that if Afghans want to receive Canadian aid, they have to cooperate with national and military forces to protect their village. Imagine, we are in effect asking the civilian population to take up arms, and we are blackmailing them to boot.

The CIDA projects were not created for these purposes. The funds must be used to rebuild Afghanistan and provide the people with a livelihood.

There are other examples of aid projects that are not meeting their intended objectives. Take Palestine, for example. Much of the money intended for the Palestinians is being withheld by Israeli banks, which deprives the population directly.

When the ministers of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation withdrew Canadian aid from the newly elected government of the Palestinian territories, the agreement was that the Canadian government would keep on providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people through UN agencies and non-governmental organizations. Only direct aid to the new government was to be suspended. But the reality is quite different. Aid to NGOs is being maintained, but evidence suggests that it is not reaching its destination.

An entire population is being held hostage. Not only do the Palestinians live in a very difficult political situation, but they also have serious problems making a living. Many young people cannot even go to school anymore. Canada is helping to mortgage future generations.

The Bloc Québécois denounced the Canadian government's position, deeming its decision premature.

We all agree that we need to take a cautious and strict attitude toward Hamas, but we have to honour our commitments of humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people.

We stigmatize everyone working directly or indirectly for the Palestinian government, but that does not make them terrorists. We must distinguish between those who live in Palestine and those who live for terrorism.

The Bloc Québécois believes it is vital to be certain that aid is really being used efficiently and for the purposes for which it is given.

Bill C-293 attempts to correct these problems by giving any resident of a developing country who believes that the development assistance being provided to that country is inconsistent with the purposes of this act the opportunity to make a petition in writing to an advisory committee specifying the deficiencies to be corrected. These two parts of the bill should be subject to in-depth analysis by the parliamentary committee.

I am concerned about the mandate, the composition and the cost of setting up and running this advisory committee. I am also concerned about the role of parliamentarians.

With respect to petitions, I am somewhat puzzled as to how useful this provision would be and exactly how it would be used. As worded, the provisions in the bill require the advisory committee and the minister to follow up on such petitions. That is fine.

However, returning to my two previous examples, this means that several millions of people could technically complain, all at once, about the misuse of Canadian aid, since it clearly indicates “a resident”. That also means that, between the time when the petition was sent, when the minister replied and indicated the corrective action he intends to take, and the time when any action will actually take place, several months will have gone by and several thousands of people will likely die in the meantime. Malnutrition shows no patience with young children, nor does an epidemic, not to mention other the other problems they face.

I am not at all convinced that the use of petitions is appropriate. Would it not be preferable for CIDA to respect its commitments and to take the necessary measures to ensure close follow-up of the projects and their effectiveness? That agency already has the structure in place to fulfill that role. Someone will have to convince me that this is the best possible way to help these people and to ensure the effectiveness of aid.

Furthermore, I would like to underscore the importance of subjecting all forms of aid to international standards in terms of human rights, another fundamental aspect of international cooperation. We must also apply the principle of sustainable development. If we want to eliminate poverty, we must do so with a sustainable, long-term vision.

I would now like to turn to the crux of the matter, namely the budget for humanitarian aid. In the past, we asked the previous government several times what it really intended to do to bring the amount of aid to the level required to meet the millennium development goals.

One might agree with the principle of a bill to enshrine poverty reduction as the ultimate purpose of international aid, but that is not enough. We must ensure that all millennium development goals are addressed and met. The word “poverty” therefore has to be interpreted in the broadest sense, which also implies being able to obtain health care, get an education and live in a healthy and sustainable environment.

However, for all the millennium development goals to be met, in addition to legislation, we need to substantially increase the budget for development assistance. Unfortunately, the first Conservative budget did not fill the bill and failed to show any real intention to meet the international aid target of 0.7% of GDP by 2015.

I will remind the hon. members of this House, and the Prime Minister in particular, that, in February 2005, a letter signed by the three opposition leaders was sent to the Prime Minister of the Liberal government, asking him to pass legislation making poverty reduction the ultimate purpose of government development assistance and urging him to implement a strategy promoting a steady and foreseeable increase in development assistance. They were also calling for a substantial and immediate increase of the aid budget.

It is apparent that the Prime Minister has difficulty putting his words into action.

In conclusion, this bill's goal is fundamental. However, some aspects of the bill will need to be considered in greater detail at committee.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak briefly to this private member's bill, Bill C-293, introduced by my colleague from Scarborough—Guildwood. I congratulate him for having introduced this bill entitled “an act respecting the provision of development assistance abroad”.

I will be supporting the bill. This will not surprise anybody because it is a replication of a bill that I had already introduced six weeks ago in the House.

I am profoundly disappointed, actually very dismayed, by the way in which the government has chosen to deal with the bill before us. It is a huge violation of the spirit of cooperation and collaboration that was shown both in the foreign affairs committee over a period of more than two years of work around overseas development assistance issues and in the House. On June 28 last year, members voted unanimously to support a recommendation from the foreign affairs committee. I want to read part of that it into the record. It stated that Parliament:

--introduce legislation...which establishes poverty reduction as the priority for Canada’s Official Development Assistance (ODA), as outlined in the historic February 17, 2005, letter from all Opposition Leaders to the Prime Minister, to ensure that aid is provided in a manner consistent with Canada’s human rights obligations and respectful of the perspectives of those living in poverty...

That was a genuine expression of a point of view brought forward again and again by witnesses before the foreign affairs committee, literally over a period of two and a half years. The first of those witnesses to appear was on April 1, 2003. It was the special envoy for HIV-AIDS in Africa, Stephen Lewis, who serves under the UN Secretary-General. We had a continual flow of recommendations around this essential topic.

What is very disappointing is that we have not seen tonight in this debate a reflection or a continuation of that spirit of cooperation. It is absolutely in order. In fact, it is the responsibility of each and every one of us as private members to bring forward the different points of view that one will reflect upon and express on any bill that comes before us. It is heart-breaking, if we look at all the work done by NGOs, particularly the umbrella organization for the 100 or more NGOs, the Canadian Council for International Co-operation. Also many witnesses came before the committee in the belief that Canada wanted to re-establish itself as a leader with credibility around overseas development assistance.

The CIDA minister appeared before the foreign affairs committee yesterday. I received a letter from the her yesterday, after a four month delay since I wrote to her urging urgent action on this matter. All indications from the government on this are very disappointing, in fact I would say alarming. It is its intention to take us backwards instead of moving forward on something around which there was an astounding consensus at the foreign affairs committee and in the House.

A constructive action that could have been taken tonight would have been to indicate that this matter is worthy of examination by the foreign affairs committee, with a sense of urgency that is appropriate given that a whole year has passed since Parliament spoke with one voice to say that we should move forward on this.

Instead, what we have heard is a bunch of procedural argument, all of which could have been addressed in a meaningful debate at the committee level. Frankly, it was even more disappointing to have heard from the minister that she would begin to look at some of the ways that we could improve our aid delivery and our accountability. At some future date, heavens knows when, we might actually begin to see some progress from the government. It is very disappointing.

I meant what I said on this floor on May 1 when I introduced the companion bill to one now before us. I pleaded with the government to make it its own and scrap the private member's bill if it were so inclined. However, for heaven's sake, move on this issue. Millions of people are dying unnecessarily of hunger and disease because of the grinding poverty in which they are living.

Canada is a contributor to those killer conditions. Instead of the Liberal government moving us forward with a level of overseas development assistance that would allow Canadians to hold their heads up high, it took us from 0.5% of ODA assistance, which was in place under the previous Conservative government, back to where it was at .23%.

We have no indication whatsoever from the government that it intends to move on any of the recommendations that were brought forward unanimously by the foreign affairs committee and unanimously endorsed in the House on June 28, 2005.

I still plead with the government to realize that the appropriate sense of urgency with which this matter should be addressed would be for the bill to go to committee at the earliest possible time, where it could be debated and amendments proposed. I know the member for Scarborough—Guildwood has indicated, as have I, that each of the points raised are legitimate points that can be addressed and around which some flexibility is appropriate.

Although I think it is clear that an advisory council is an important part of this, the bill does not require a royal recommendation. It says the advisory council “may” receive remuneration. It is up to the minister to decide on that. Therefore, that could be addressed.

There has been another issue raised, but I am will not go into the obstructionistic procedural posturing that we have heard from the government side tonight. It is extremely disappointing. I think Canadians applauded spirit of cooperation, which is desperately needed by people around the world who are suffering from the most degrading poverty on earth. We owe it to Canadians and to those suffering from global poverty, in the spirit of the make poverty history campaign and in the spirit of the work done over a two and a half year period, to move ahead and deal with the bill at committee at the earliest possible date.

If the government cannot bring itself to do that, because it wants to be the sole author of an appropriate bill, then in the name of heaven let us agree and commit ourselves to fast track a bill that the government would introduce so we could then get on with taking action.

I do not know how else to do this but to plead with the government not to make all Canadians and parliamentarians look ridiculous by obstructing and blocking progress on something so urgent to the most desperately poor people of the world.

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to echo the comments made by colleagues in the House in support of what is a very important initiative, an initiative that I believe unites Canada in a common purpose and focuses in an accountable and transparent way its aid development around the world.

I thank the hon. member and my colleague, who once shared part of my riding or I shared part of his, the member for Scarborough—Guildwood. He has taken a very important step toward focusing Parliament toward commitments that have been made, not only by colleagues in my party, but very clearly, as suggested by the hon. member for Halifax and earlier by the member himself, by Parliament. Parliament should proceed at the earliest opportunity.

Based on the letter from February 17, 2005, all three then opposition leaders, now one Prime Minister and two opposition leaders, made it abundantly clear where they stood on ensuring that CIDA moneys were focused on poverty elimination. It is not lost on Canadians, on civil society and on the efforts made in the past that on this day alone one-third of the people who will die in this world will die as a result of poverty, the result of neglect and starvation.

It is extremely important that Canadians understand what this debate is about. It is not at this stage increasing the funding. It is targeting the funding.

I also want to compliment not only my colleague, the member for Scarborough—Guildwood, but also the hon. member for Halifax who quite rightly, in what was a tornado of events in June 2005, brought Parliament together to ensure that the government and Parliament would agree to the target of .07% in terms of our obligations of international development. We know where this Parliament stands.

I want to point out that the letter was signed by the leader of the Bloc Québécois, who is still here, the leader of the New Democratic Party, who is still here and the leader of the opposition of the Conservative Party, who is now Prime Minister. There are two points that the now Prime Minister, then opposition leader, made. I will read this into the record.

We are writing to urge you to introduce legislation which establishes poverty reduction as the aim for Canada's Official Development Assistance (ODA). A legislated mandate for Canada's ODA would ensure that aid is provided in a manner both consistent with Canada's human rights obligations and respectful of the perspectives of those living in poverty.

To reiterate that, the Prime Minister also said:

We are not however simply urging more dollars be spent. Those dollars must also be spent effectively and in ways ensuring more accountability. In our view, this legislation should include an unequivocal statement of purpose that poverty reduction is the central lens through which Canada's aid program should be delivered.

That does not just bind us in the House of Commons. I respectfully submit that it binds the Prime Minister. Regardless of the procedural tactics not to deal with this and concerns about who is going to handle this or that, I can tell the hon. parliamentary secretary this. He sat on the same foreign affairs committee that recommended this a little earlier and he is now the parliamentary secretary responsible for CIDA. He will remember the RADARSAT issue in which we could not figure out who would be responsible for making decisions.

Those are decisions that could be made with the expertise that we have in committee and the engagement of civil society and of witnesses. it seems to me to be abundantly clear and plain to everybody who is listening today that all parties have agreed in one form or another to the need to pass the bill. It is my view that the initiative by the member, supported by so many members of the House of Commons and now supported by the right hon. Prime Minister, make it incumbent on the Prime Minister to accept this.

However, let me go one step further. The Conservative Party in a number of initiatives agreed, not only obviously with their leader, but if I am not mistaken with their own policy platform, their resolution of March 2005, a mere month after. I know many hon. colleagues in the Conservative Party, who are here today, will remember that they voted for the following:

A Conservative Government will introduce legislation that will...define a legal framework for Canada’s Official Development Assistance (ODA) envelope of spending. This legislation will include a clear mandate for development assistance; mechanisms for policy coherence, monitoring, accountability and reporting to Parliament; and enhanced public transparency.

We are not debating that. We agree with that, but we find now that the Conservative parliamentary secretary has argued against himself, not only against the wisdom of his leader, who is now Prime Minister, but apparently against the convention of his own party.

I would suggest that as opposed to simply pointing fingers, we could get a whole lot more done if Parliament were prepared here and now--I am not going to do it, but I want acknowledgement from hon. members--to refer this to the committee immediately. We are allowing this to go an hour in a month and another hour in another month, and we may not even get to this until November. Who do we betray? Who do we hurt? We are hurting people who know that one of the strongest elements of how Canada presents itself in the world is with respect to how it treats the most vulnerable people, regardless of their credo, their nation and their circumstances.

We cannot do everything. It has become abundantly clear, certainly in my time in foreign affairs, that our greatest talents, our greatest efforts, and ones which we are greatly acknowledged for, lie in our ability to help the people in the world who are vulnerable, regardless of their circumstances, and who, through no fault of their own, may very well die today or in the next few days, poverty being the basis on which other diseases and problems occur.

It seems to me that Parliament must debate but it must also act. The wisdom provided by my hon. colleague, the member for Scarborough—Guildwood, cannot be gainsaid. I think we all have an obligation to remind Canadians of the things we want to accomplish. Considering the spirit of the bill, not only is it about focusing, but it is also about transparency, accountability and input from the NGOs and organizations that do so much.

We can obviously take time to amend this bill in committee, as that is of course the purpose of committee, but I would launch a challenge to all members of Parliament to find it within themselves to see this bill for what it is. It is a true testament to an issue whose time has come, not in terms of engagement of hostilities but in fact to offer to the rest of the world, as some other leading nations are today, the issue of putting a priority on the reduction of poverty first.

Not nine months ago, Parliament did indeed do that. Regardless of the political circumstances that existed at the time, we made it abundantly clear on all sides of the House that it was important, thanks in many measures to the member for Halifax, to support a resolution to ensure that we look at global poverty reduction but that Canada also respect its commitment.

As for working in the department, I understand that there may be concerns about protecting certain interests within the department and having the flexibility of saying that we use CIDA to obtain different policies which might have the effect of furthering Canada's interests. One person talked to me a little earlier about the questions of security. Some talked to us about questions of Canada's priorities, which have nothing to do with poverty reduction or security, necessarily, but which might somehow encumber the government in terms of its flexibility.

I realize that this is an important imperative, but it is not an imperative that stands in the face of dying children and people who, through no fault of their own today, by the misfortune of living in another part of the world as a result of war or strife, or as a result of nations that fail to protect people's human rights and dignity, are left in the position where they have no alternative but to hope that the Parliament in Ottawa, Canada, today will get it act together collectively and make sure that its best efforts in terms of resources are placed on the people who need it most.

I do not know what credos we share, and I do not know what backgrounds we have, and I am not exactly sure of differences in terms of our policies and philosophies, but helping the most vulnerable and ensuring that Canada puts its best foot forward is, I believe, something that we all share in common and that we as a Parliament have a duty to do and to enact.

I want to say this and I encourage members on this side of the House to do the same. I agree with what the Prime Minister said on February 17, 2005. I agree with the leader of the Bloc Québécois. I agree with the leader of the New Democratic Party. It is good to talk about these things, but I think we have come to a point where we must act now, we must act purposefully and we must act in the most important crisis facing the world today, which is clearly the reduction of poverty.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, consistent with the issue of poverty, I want to point out that I have asked the Minister of Natural Resources to clarify why his party did an about face within a very short period of time. It accepted Bill C-66, which extended the EnerGuide program to help individuals, particularly those on low incomes and seniors, like my constituent Maggie Robertson who, over a month after the announcement was made, had been told she would not be eligible for the program as a result of a cut in the budget. It has still not been confirmed whether she has in fact received this.

I find it unacceptable that a government that campaigned on transparency and accountability would be so callous as to axe the EnerGuide program for low income households of $550 million as well as deep cuts to the EnerGuide house retrofit incentive program.

It is important for people to understand that this is not just a question of helping people make the updates that are good for them in terms of bringing their costs down as a result of energy costs that are spiralling out of control. It is also about putting these individuals in a position where they can actually contribute to reducing greenhouse gases and to try to find ways in which to help Canadians who have done so much to build this nation.

It seems to me that for the minister to somehow suggest that because of the audit process being some 50%, which it is not--it is 12%--that we should not have some kind of accountability to measure what is being invested, is, in my view, an abdication of the government's responsibility to taxpayers.

I am waiting for the Minister of Natural Resources to tell the House if he is prepared to live up to the commitment and tell Canadians why, in the first instance, he broke a promise and why he was not prepared to stand up for Canadians and, despite the unanimous consent of the hon. members in the Conservative Party, why the government felt it was important to cut this program.

I have more items I would like to introduce which go hand in hand with the 85¢ a litre and the cut in the GST but I will give the Minister of Natural Resources or his representative, the hon. parliamentary secretary, the opportunity to answer. I think they have some explaining to do and they have to explain that to the 150,000 Canadians who are basically left in the dark and left in the cold.