Debates of Dec. 6th, 2007

LNG Terminals

[Lawrence Cannon, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, yes indeed, under the navigable waters portion of the legislation we are looking at this file. We have not yet made a determination. As soon as cabinet has been seized of this issue, we will make our report public.

Energy

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, on the eve of Bali there are many other considerations about LNG. The government is not showing leadership on energy issues. If it were, it would heed the call from provincial premiers and its own National Energy Board to create a Canada first energy strategy.

Importing LNG from Russia does nothing to build a future for Canadians. When it comes to energy issues, can the minister explain why the government is more concerned with the interests of big business rather than protecting the people of Quebec and Canada?

[Gary Lunn, Conservative, Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the member's comments are absurd. Of course we take all of these matters very seriously. We have a duty and obligation to ensure the supply of energy, but we also first and foremost take the environment seriously in every way, shape and form.

The Minister of the Environment has led the way, bringing in regulations that are changing this country like never before, something that has not happened in 13 years. We are all very proud of his leadership and how he will take our position to Bali. We should all be applauding his efforts.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, under this immigration minister, relatives of Canadians are routinely denied visitor visas for important family events, even when they have come to Canada numerous times under the previous government.

This government claims to champion family values, yet no compassion or concern is shown in these cases. When will this government stop discriminating against the families of these Canadians and reform the visitor visa system?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important to this government that we maintain our reputation as a welcoming country. We have done that by raising our levels of acceptance for permanent residents to the highest in many years. We have worked to streamline our programs, so that visitors to Canada and temporary foreign workers can get here faster and easier. We have shown great progress on that as well.

First and foremost, our job is to protect the safety and security of those who are already here, so we must make sure that those who are applying to come to this country are legitimate.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this government has been delivering real, tangible results on aboriginal issues. Since coming into office just 22 months ago, we have reduced by half the number of first nations communities with significant water issues.

Sadly, however, the opposition is blocking Bill C-21, our attempt to empower first nations with the same human rights that all other Canadians enjoy. It is are also stalling Bill C-30, which would address the backlog of specific claims.

Can the Minister of Indian Affairs tell the opposition why this bill on specific claims is so important, not only to aboriginals but for all Canadians?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-30 will help us settle hundreds of outstanding specific claims quickly and fairly, something for which first nations have been asking for over 60 years.

National Chief Phil Fontaine says this bill deserves speedy passage, yet once again we see that the Liberals and other opposition parties are paying lip service to it and doing everything they can to stop this bill here in the House of Commons. I urge all MPs to stop the games and support Bill C-30. This is good news for first nations. It is good news for economic development. That is good news for all Canadians.

Foreign Affairs

[Keith Martin, Liberal, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, cluster bombs are much like landmines. They are vile killers of innocent civilians. They violate basic norms of international human rights.

Unfortunately, the government has been opaque on its position with respect to banning cluster munitions, so I have a simple question for the Prime Minister. Will his government support an international ban on the production and use of cluster munitions?

[Helena Guergis, Conservative, Secretary of State (Foreign Affairs and International Trade) (Sport)]

Mr. Speaker, as has been said in this House many times, Canada has given the direction to destroy any cluster munitions that we do have in existence. Canada has never used cluster munitions. We supported the Oslo process.

Business of the House

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Wascana, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the government House leader would indicate his full agenda to take the House through to December 14.

[Peter Van Loan, Conservative, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform]

Mr. Speaker, 2007 has been a great year for Canada and a great year for the House of Commons.

Next week is the last week of the fall sitting and the last week before the new year. The sitting and the year have been extremely successful for the federal government, as we have introduced legislation in all of our priority areas and have delivered results for Canadians.

However, since we have only a few sitting days remaining this year to address important tax cuts, security issues and other priority bills still pending, Canadians are expecting us to work very hard in the coming days to produce results for them.

We want to see our priority bills passed in this House and sent to the Senate so that they may become law before Christmas. As a result, next week will be 2007, a year of results week.

We plan to build on our past achievements by debating and passing the budget implementation bill, which would lower taxes for all Canadians by reducing the GST to 5%, as well as by bringing in tax cuts for individuals and corporations.

We will debate Bill S-2, An Act to amend the Canada-United States Tax Convention Act, 1984, which must be passed by Parliament before January 1 to ensure that it is implemented and we can benefit from that.

We will also debate our railway transportation bill, Bill C-8, and our bill on the settlement of international investment disputes, Bill C-9. Both bills will help create jobs and provide economic certainty for Canadians.

Our government will continue to show Canadians that we are serious about tackling crime and strengthening the security of Canadians. Next week, we expect that our security certificates bill, Bill C-3, will be reported back from committee. The bill will then be debated at report stage and third reading. We hope the hon. members of the House understand the importance of passing this legislation so that it may be considered and passed by the Senate before the deadline imposed by the Supreme Court.

We will debate any amendments made to our Bill C-13 on criminal procedure, currently being examined by the Senate.

Speaking of the Senate, the government hopes that the tackling violent crime act will pass the Senate so Canadians can feel safer over the Christmas holidays knowing that the bill has been enacted into law.

Canadians also expect their institutions to be more accountable and democratic. We have built a record of results on this file as well, with the passage of the Federal Accountability Act and Bill C-31 to improve the integrity of the voting process. Next week we will continue with our plans in this area by debating Bill C-29, which closes a loophole in our campaign financing laws that Liberal leadership candidates used to bypass campaign contribution limits last year.

We would also like Bill C-6, on the visual identification of voters, and Bill C-18, on the verification of residence, to be sent back by committee. It is important for these bills to become law, so that they can be implemented in time for the next byelections.

Tomorrow I will also seek consent to send Bill C-30, the specific land claims bill, to committee. This bill to create certainty and allow land claims to be resolved more quickly is a welcome addition and the country will be better off the sooner its process is put in place.

This year, 2007, has been an excellent year for Canada. Our economy is booming, the country is united and there is integrity in government.

We have achieved a lot this year. Our government has delivered real results for Canadians in 2007 and will continue to do so next week and in the new year.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion--Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Before question period, the hon. member for Richmond Hill had the floor and there remained two minutes in the time allotted for questions and comments consequent on his remarks. I therefore call for questions and comments in respect of the hon. member for Richmond Hill.

The hon. member for Thornhill is rising on questions and comments.

[Susan Kadis, Liberal, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, could the member for Richmond Hill explain why it is so critically important that the federal government invest in much needed mass transit infrastructure like the extension of the Yonge Street subway north to Highway 7, Langstaff, for growing communities like Thornhill and Richmond Hill?

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would point out that the members from York region on this side of the House have been very supportive of this project.

In 2004 the federal government of the day, a Liberal government, along with the province of Ontario and the municipalities supported a wide-ranging GTA transit proposal. Unfortunately, the Conservative government does not like to see things happen. It does not like to see success, and that proposal was basically mothballed.

The province of Ontario earlier in June of this year announced support for the extension of the subway to Richmond Hill.

I want to point out that we on this side of the House have written to the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Transport as well. We want to see this project go forward. There is absolutely no reason that it should not. We need the partnership. That is why the federal government's participation is critical. Given the cost of infrastructure, it is important that the federal government come to the table. As I said earlier, the Conservatives do not understand it and that is why they are lagging behind.

The residents of York region and particularly south York region are very anxious to see this go ahead. On this side of the House we will continue to push the government on this very fundamental issue, which I am sure, with the right amount of pushing, we may get.

The Minister of Finance is in the House. We hope he will respond accordingly in very short order.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in this debate on the Liberal Party motion on its opposition day. I would like to read the motion, for the benefit of those listening:

That, consistent with the spirit of the Liberal New Deal for Cities and Communities, this House believes it is in the best interest of Canadians, that the government should take steps to make permanent the sharing of the Federal Excise Tax on Gasoline with all Canadian municipalities for the purpose of enhancing local community infrastructure.

First of all, everyone will agree that municipal and strategic infrastructure is in urgent need of major investments, given their ageing and deteriorating state. This is particularly true in Quebec and many regions of Canada. A good portion of our highway system, in particular, and in terms of infrastructure, our schools and hospitals, for example, were built between 1960 and 1970. At that time, Quebec society in particular had some catching up to do in order to update all its highway systems and other public systems. I would remind the House that many highways, overpasses, bridges, schools and hospitals were built at that time throughout Quebec.

That was in the 1960s, which means that many of these infrastructures are now 45 years old. They have suffered the ravages of time. Furthermore, in the late 1970s and early 1980s in particular, and in 1990, there were not nearly enough investments in this area, particularly on the part of the federal government. For example, in the early 1980s, Quebec went through a major recession and the Government of Quebec was struggling to balance—or rather, was trying to reduce—its deficits. The Government of Quebec therefore had no other choice but to spend less on maintaining infrastructure. This was also true for subsequent governments.

As I said earlier, despite the sustained efforts of the Government of Quebec and the municipalities, given their limited means, the money allocated to repairing and developing infrastructure was and still is insufficient. On its own, the government is not in a position to increase its participation in any significant way. As everyone knows, the Government of Quebec is struggling to balance its finances. Barely two years ago, the minister at the time, Mr. Audet, had to sell approximately $800 million worth of assets in order to wipe out the deficit.

The federal government has been recording surpluses since 1997 or 1998. Thus, it has the means to help the provinces to assume their responsibilities regarding infrastructures. In addition, we must remember that the quality of infrastructures is extremely important to the prosperity of the country. We need a proper highway network that will facilitate rapid transportation of goods. We need railway infrastructure. That is not the case at present, but we know we should be going in that direction. Public transit infrastructure must respond to concerns that are not only economic but, as a result of the Kyoto protocol, are now also environmental.

Some will tell me that it is not in the plans of the Conservative government to respect the objectives of the Kyoto protocol. However, some cities and some provinces are committed to meeting the objectives of that protocol and are working to achieve them. This is true for Quebec, in particular, but also for other provinces.

It is therefore necessary to ensure that Quebec and the municipalities have the means to put in place the infrastructure that is needed not only to meet economic demands, but also to meet environmental requirements.

As I have also mentioned, in recent decades, the federal government has made relatively modest contributions. It is true that since the start of this decade we have seen a gradual investment in the renewal of infrastructure by means of different programs and funds, including the transfer of part of the gasoline tax that we are discussing today.

However, these interventions by the federal government have simply slowed the aging of our public infrastructures and have not led to the renewal, the modernization or the completion of this infrastructure in a way that responds to today’s challenges.

There is still a deficit to be addressed. For a number of years, a coalition led for many years by the Mayor of Laval, Gilles Vaillancourt, has come here to Ottawa each year to promote awareness of the infrastructure deficit that, although it is not apparent every day, has a daily impact on our ability to get from one place to another and to develop in economic terms.

Sometimes, tragic events take place, such as the collapse of the Concorde overpass at Laval. Those events remind us that even though, on the surface, our infrastructures appear sound, sometimes, the deterioration underneath is much greater than we would like it to be.

Inevitably, someday, we will have to spend money in this area to achieve an acceptable quality of infrastructure. At this time, the resources are not there and we are living with situations that could lead to other tragedies like the collapse of Concorde overpass. Those events have made the Government of Quebec and the entire population aware of the importance of much more massive investment in rebuilding our infrastructure.

As I said, Kyoto protocol compliance and the urbanization of Quebec mean that public transit infrastructure development projects are becoming increasingly important. We know that the northern ring of Montreal—the riding of Joliette is northeast of Montreal—is paying close attention to the public transit infrastructure facilities that the Agence métropolitaine de transport may be constructing there.

We now have a project for a commuter train linking Terrebonne, Mascouche and Montreal, and we are hoping that it will be carried out as speedily as possible. Some communities are hoping that eventually that train will go through L'Assomption and later even reach Joliette. I know that this is not something that is going to happen overnight, but the first segment at least has to be constructed so that we can then think about extending it to Joliette, for example, or as far as L'Assomption at least. One could envisage parking lots being constructed so that people in the riding of Joliette who have to work in or travel to Montreal will be able to use that infrastructure.

This is a concern that arises in particular from the reality of how people travel. People who work in Montreal, some of whom lived in Montreal in the past, now live in Repentigny, Terrebonne and L'Assomption, and sometimes even much farther away, for all kinds of reasons. I also know people who live in Montreal and work in the northern ring. I even know some teachers who work at a school under the Commission scolaire des Samares or at the Joliette component of the Cégep régional de Lanaudière and live in Montreal, and have to travel every morning and evening.

With an adequate public transit infrastructure, I am convinced that these people would choose a much more ecological and probably more efficient way of travelling than what is available to them in the present situation, with all its traffic jams. I think that many of us are aware of the fact that building more bridges is not the solution to this problem. The solution, rather, lies in public transit and car pooling. In all cases, substantial amounts of money will be needed for infrastructure.

As I said, since the beginning of this decade, and even more recently, more funding has been announced than in the past. Those funds are available, but Quebec will still not have complete assurance that it will be in charge of spending those funds in areas under its jurisdiction.

There are things that we sometimes hear said.

For example, I recall something else along the same lines. When the Minister of Labour arrived in Alma—if memory serves me—in the Lac-Saint-Jean region, he said that he was going to ensure that the downtown area of Alma would get substantial projects. And yet, in my opinion, he has absolutely no say on this subject. Negotiations have to be conducted between the municipalities and the Government of Quebec. It is the Government of Quebec that is responsible for ensuring that the municipalities are capable of carrying out their environmental and social responsibilities, in terms of the things that a municipality manages on a day to day basis.

There is something in the motion presented by the Liberals that bothers me a bit: it contains a reference to the “New Deal for Cities and Communities”. We remember that. We clearly see that the Liberals, as they had in the past, have a vision of a federal government that has to have its say in areas that are under Quebec’s jurisdiction, allegedly to be sure that the money will be spent responsibly.

This paternalistic attitude in the Liberal motion bothers me. It is true that at the time when this agreement was announced, we were quite favourable to the excise tax idea. It seemed then to be the best way for Quebec and its municipalities to get the money they needed to meet their very urgent needs.

In the meantime, a lot of water has passed under the bridge and I think that we now need a much more comprehensive view of infrastructure funding by Quebec and its municipalities and the federal government’s contribution.

As I said, it would have been preferable to have a motion that completely revised our approach to infrastructure and that required something else of the federal government other than just to multiply its programs.

I can assure the House that our infrastructure critic, the hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, often explains to our caucus how all these various funds work. He is our teacher and I take my hat off to him because we would certainly be lost if not for his erudite elucidations of this great tangle of programs and how each of them works.

It would be much simpler, therefore, to consolidate them in the form of a fund for the provinces from which a single transfer could be made with no strings attached so that the federal government kept out of the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces. We would obviously want this fund to be substantially increased and much larger, therefore, than the sum of the current programs because the needs are huge.

The Bloc’s position is clear and firm in this regard as in so many others. Quebec has full authority over municipal affairs and regional economic development. It is up to Quebec, therefore, to determine which priority projects would be most beneficial for Quebeckers, acting through such organizations as the Société de financement des infrastructures locales du Québec.

Not everyone here will be familiar with this Quebec institution, known as SOFIL, and so I remind the House that its exclusive mission is to provide financial assistance to municipalities and municipal agencies in order to help them complete infrastructure projects having to do with drinking water, sewage, local roads, mass transit, and projects with urban or regional economic spin-offs.

At the present time, each federal program targets a different clientele and has different schedules and criteria. This results in considerable confusion, especially among municipal officials who sometimes expect to receive phenomenal amounts that usually end up being relatively modest and producing great disappointment in the grandiose announcements of Conservative ministers. Personally, I think we should avoid disappointing our fellow Quebec citizens in this way.

If the federal Conservative government put all of those funds together and transferred them to Quebec, which would be responsible for managing them properly—these are matters that fall within the exclusive jurisdiction of the Government of Quebec—it would not be creating expectations it cannot meet, and the frustration that many elected officials at the municipal level are experiencing would diminish. Everyone would win—taxpayers, municipalities and Quebeckers in general. This would enable the federal government, especially the Conservative government with its talk of open federalism, to make things happen.

Nearly a year has passed since the motion recognizing the existence of the Quebec nation was passed in this House, but the government is not walking the walk. Once again, for the federalist parties, it seems that this motion was, at best, symbolic, and at worst, completely artificial. Surely it is time to bring some substance to this recognition, which is still more virtual than real.

As I said, this would help eliminate the confusion that currently reigns. This would enable the Government of Quebec to set its own priorities for areas under its jurisdiction.

The Budget Plan 2007 provided for the creation of a federal office to identify opportunities for public-private partnerships. This does not bode well for Quebec. They say they will do what used to be done, which is respect the fact that the provinces, particularly Quebec, are in charge of municipal infrastructure programs. The government also plans to offer a little incentive for using public-private partnerships for public projects, a formula that is being hotly debated in Quebec and elsewhere in the world.

Currently, a huge debate is going on about extending Quebec's Highway 25. Major transparency issues have come up. I remember a study conducted for Quebec's union of municipalities by researchers in the urbanization program at Quebec's national institute for scientific research. Pierre J. Hamel, whom I know well, was one of the researchers. The study showed that, barring evidence to the contrary, public-private partnerships cost more than the public sector taking on the responsibilities itself.

Why be so ideological as to provide a special incentive for public-private partnerships by creating a fund that favours such partnerships? Once again, the federal government is encroaching on Quebec's jurisdiction.

As I said, having a federal office responsible for identifying opportunities for public-private partnerships could very well create even more confusion, when it is up to the Government of Quebec not only to choose projects, but also to determine whether a project should involve a public-private partnership. Once again, as I said, Ottawa is interfering in one of Quebec's jurisdictions.

If the federal government were to combine all the different infrastructure funds, transfer them to Quebec and sweeten the pot, it would not only be better able to respect the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces, but it could ensure that Quebec, like the other provinces, gets its fair share. Since the funds are extremely complex to monitor and the criteria can vary, it is very difficult at present to determine whether Quebec, for example, is getting its fair share of federal infrastructure spending or transfers.

With regard to restructuring the funds announced in the 2007 budget, for example, we still do not know whether Quebec will be assured of receiving its fair share when it needs it. Creating a single, unconditional transfer fund would provide an opportunity to abolish the infrastructure programs that have no real criteria for distributing money among the provinces and enter into an agreement with Ottawa that would respect Quebec's demographic weight, as is done for other transfers, which would give Quebec about 25% of the money.

Not only would creating this single infrastructure transfer better meet the obligation the federal government should have to respect the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces and ensure that Quebec and the other provinces receive their fair share, but it would also allow investments in municipal and strategic infrastructure to be much more predictable, recurrent and tailored to local needs.

As I said, there is some merit in the Liberal motion, but parts of it concern us. We would have been more receptive to the idea of creating a single transfer fund for the provinces and Quebec. Quebec could have used this fund unconditionally to invest in infrastructure for Quebec as a whole or for the municipalities.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to congratulate my colleague from Joliette, our distinguished House leader who was promoted. Previously, he was the finance critic. He is an economist by training.

The infrastructure file should be the responsibility of the Department of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. Therefore we were surprised this morning when the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance spoke first.

I asked the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities about this and he replied that the finance department was responsible for the gas tax and that it should carry the debate.

However, it is important for us to understand this. The cities of Quebec and of the rest of Canada felt the impact of the Liberals' attempt to eliminate the deficit in the early 90's. They cut health and educations transfers to the provinces. The result was that the provinces finally had to look elsewhere for resources and transferred responsibilities to cities in order to maintain the same level of service in the health and education networks.

I found it quite amusing because the Conservatives accused the Liberals and the Liberals accused the Conservatives. We should remember that it was the Trudeau government that got Canada into debt, although my colleague knows that the debt grew under the Conservatives with the result that cities are in debt today. That is what they are telling us when they speak of the $123 billion infrastructure deficit.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance told us this morning that they had finally given enough and that what was important to them was reducing Canada's debt. Only then, can we begin reducing the infrastructure deficit. In the meantime, the infrastructure deficit of cities is growing. This does not mean that cities will have the money or the capacity to borrow to make repairs. It means that the infrastructure will age and that the corresponding debt will balloon.

I would like my learned colleague, an economist, to speak to us about this.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague from Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel for his question. Once again, I congratulate him for how well he has handled this rather complicated file, given the multitude of funds. As I said, he is a tremendous help with his explanations in caucus.

What we are dealing with here is a philosophy shared by the Liberals and the Conservatives, quite simply, a short-term philosophy. As for the Liberals, what did they do? They said they would reduce the deficit in two ways. First, they dumped more financial responsibility on the provinces, while at the same time, cutting transfers to the provinces. The federal government will not get any thanks for doing that under the Liberals. Second, they redirected some of the money from the employment insurance fund. That is basically how the Liberals managed to take care of the deficit. The federal government really did not make any great effort in that regard.

Quebec and the other provinces therefore found themselves struggling with growing financial problems and they, in turn, transferred some responsibilities to the municipalities, without any additional funding. I am sure that my colleague, as a former mayor and former president of the Union des municipalités du Québec, is in a better position than me to recall that there was quite a debate in Quebec, particularly surrounding the Ryan reform. Yet it must be clearly understood that the primary responsibility was that of the federal government.

From the time when, in 1997-98, a surplus began to materialize, one would have expected the federal government to resume its investments. However, we had to wait until 2004 for the government to make a move. From 1994 to 2003, the government invested barely $1.15 billion in Quebec municipal infrastructures, through transfers to Quebec.

It is very clear that the government took its time to act, that problems intensified and costs increased. That is the problem. Often, the regular maintenance of an infrastructure costs much less than having to rebuild it entirely or do major work on it. Now that not only has the deficit been cleared since 1997-98, but the debt is now the lowest of all G-7 countries, there is no reason to make paying off the debt such a priority, as the Conservatives are doing.

It is the same short-term mindset. It seems like a good idea to reduce the debt, and to keep reducing it. But to my knowledge, only very underdeveloped countries are unable to incur public debt. All industrialized countries, all civilized countries are able to maintain a reasonable debt to properly invest in their infrastructure and their public education, health and research networks. In this case, we are mortgaging the future for a purely ideological obsession with reducing the debt. Municipalities and Quebec will pay the price for this philosophy. This is why we asked this week that the expected $11.6 billion surplus for the current fiscal year be invested in various areas, including those affecting municipalities.

In conclusion, I would like to say that for five years, the federal government has used $69 billion of so-called unexpected surplus to pay down the debt. If we had cut the number of workers in the bureaucracy, as the Bloc Québécois has been wanting to do for several years, there would have been a $111 billion surplus. There is more than enough federal money to ensure that Quebec and the municipalities have the money they need to properly maintain and develop their infrastructure. We have these difficulties because the federal government, Liberals and Conservatives alike, is unwilling to do anything. Correcting the fiscal imbalance will give us the necessary financial autonomy to assume our responsibilities in Quebec. Sovereignty would be even better, but that will be for another day.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, first, I listened attentively to my friend and I disagree on some points. However, I think we can agree that infrastructure is overall a provincial responsibility and the P3s may not be appropriate in every case.

However, has the member had any experience in relation to successful P3s, public-private partnerships? I have seen both the Kicking Horse Canyon in British Columbia and the Edmonton ring road in my province of Alberta, and I would call them feats. They are amazing structures and developments that have been quite successful.

My understanding is not only did those projects come in well ahead of schedule, but they gave real value to taxpayers. There was a lot less risk for taxpayers. There was greater cost certainty and greater structure and follow-up with these projects.

The Conservative government is interested in what is in the best interest of taxpayers. That is why we took hold of Autoroute 30 near Montreal and started with that project, and we want to help complete the western section of this.

Has the member had any experience with P3s? We heard of one example in another country that was not successful. In our country in recent years we have had tremendous success with it. It has given really good value for taxpayers. Could he comment on that?

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

First, this is not the place to settle the issue of whether public-private partnerships are a good way for the Government of Quebec and the people of Quebec to fund public infrastructure. That will be decided in Quebec.

That was what I was criticizing in the 2007 budget. In some respects, the federal government is interfering itself in a debate that is taking place in Quebec. The Liberal government of Mr. Charest, the Parti Québécois and the ADQ may take different positions. However, this debate belongs to Quebeckers, to the Quebec government, to the political parties and members of the Quebec National Assembly. For example, they will decide by themselves whether to complete Highway 25 with the help of a public-private partnership.

Nevertheless, the 2007 budget encourages the use of that formula, which has yet to prove its worth. I referred to a report that I could share with the member. Two researchers in the urbanization program at Quebec's national institute for scientific research who studied that formula for funding public infrastructure reached the conclusion that, often, the costs are higher, there is a lack of transparency in the contracts, and, in the final analysis, taxpayers do not come out ahead.

I will be glad to bring him that report for the vote this evening.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, about 23 schools were built in Nova Scotia under the P3 system. If my colleague from Fort McMurray were to check with his counterparts in Nova Scotia, he would find that a Conservative premier got rid of that because of the huge additional financial costs to taxpayers. It was one that did not work.

Provinces continually ask for federal funding of some sort, either for health care, education or infrastructure. Roy Romanow's health care report talked about accountability. If the federal government, regardless of the party in power, transfers X number of billions of dollars to a particular province, would he not agree that the province would have some obligation to at least be accountable for that federal money, explain where it went, what projects were built, so Canadians across the country, including Quebeckers, could have a clear understanding of where it went?

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his question.

That is the crux of the problem in terms of funding all the mandates of the provinces and Quebec. It is not right that the federal government should collect so much money that it can not only assume those responsibilities that are constitutionally its own, but that it should also have the flexibility to transfer funds to the provinces, including Quebec. That indicates that over the years, the federal government has taken a share of the tax base that is much bigger than its responsibilities. It is the same taxpayer who pays both levels. That is what we call fiscal imbalance.

If the situation were corrected, there would be no more transfers from the federal government to the provinces and to Quebec in their fields of jurisdiction. They would have the financial independence to assume those responsibilities through the taxes they collected.

At the moment, the problem is that we cannot increase taxes in Quebec, so long as the federal government does not withdraw from the tax base. As part of a final settlement of the fiscal imbalance, we would like to see the Government of Quebec—and I would hope other provinces do the same thing—negotiate, for example, the withdrawal of the federal government from the GST or the return of some tax points to the Government of Quebec. Let us do away with the transfers by the federal government for health and post-secondary education, for social assistance programs and for a number of other responsibilities that are under exclusive provincial jurisdiction. The Government of Quebec would then be accountable to the only people it should answer to, the residents of Quebec.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my friend from Sackville that in not every case would a P3 be appropriate, and I want to get that on the record. That is why the government is allocating enough money to do proper research and ensure that proper realms of accountability are there for taxpayers.

On this side of the House we recognize that although the federal government does have some surplus, the money is not ours. It does not belong to us. It belongs to the Canadian people and we will ensure they get proper value for money.

I thank the member for Saint John for the motion. It gives me a great opportunity to discuss, in detail, the important commitment that the government is making to infrastructure needs in cities and communities across this great country of Canada.

On November 6, the Prime Minister launched the $33 billion building Canada infrastructure plan. This plan is strategic, comprehensive and responsive to the infrastructure needs of provinces and territories and critically, in the context of the motion before us, the most important area, the area that deals with Canadians on a face to face basis, the municipal sector.

This historic plan provides stable and predictable funding for the longest period of time ever committed by any federal government over the last 50 years.

The member surely knows that in the spirit of open federalism that characterizes this government, we have consulted with the provinces, territories and municipalities. This is what they have asked for and that is what we will deliver.

We have provided the breakdown of the funding many times before, but it is worth repeating for the benefit of my hon. colleagues across the floor: $17.6 billion in base funding directly going to municipalities until 2014. That includes a full GST rebate and $11.8 billion through the gas tax fund. It is a lot of money and we want to have it respond best for Canadians.

This is the money municipalities can use on infrastructure priorities, which they have identified for us: $25 million per year over seven years in base funding to each province and territory. That is $175 million for each jurisdiction. Again, this is a large sum of money. There are $8.8 billion for the new building Canada fund, which will be applied to strategic projects across the country as well as projects in smaller communities with less than 100,000 people.

We listened to municipalities and that is what they told us they want. We are going to deliver that.

As well, there are $2.1 billion for the new gateways and border crossing fund, which is so important to our country, to improve the flow of goods between Canada and the world. We are a trading nation and we must take that part of the economy very seriously.

There are $1.25 billion for a new national fund for public-private partnerships, again a large amount of money, and $1 billion for the Asia-Pacific gateway and corridor initiative.

That is $33 billion, the largest investment in over 50 years by any federal government.

Let me be clear with regard to the hon. member's motion. This Conservative government will produce results that matter to Canadians. We have listened, and they want clean water, efficient public transit, safe roads and bridges and green energy. We are going to deliver these results to the Canadian people

May I remind the member as well that when the current Leader of the Opposition first ran for office, his party said it would get rid of the GST, that it would no longer exist if elected. Then Liberals decided to keep it after they got into office. Now in another flip-flop move they have suggested they will increase the GST. They will tax Canadians more.

This government is providing cities with 100% GST rebate. It is great news for our communities.

Let me provide some concrete examples of how we support cities and communities across the country. As I am sure my hon. colleague across the floor is aware, we are already providing funding in New Brunswick, his home province, such as the $100 million investment in the national highway improvements and the $26.6 million investment in the Saint John Harbour cleanup. It is a very important investment, an investment he acknowledged but did not say much in the House about it. These are two of the earliest investments the Conservative government has done.

What has the member done for the people of New Brunswick? We know his record on the environment regarding Petitcodiac and, quite frankly, it is not something to be proud of.

This government is getting results for Canadians from coast to coast to coast, and we are proud of that. This national infrastructure plan is the most significant investment made by a federal government, as I said, in 50 years.

May I remind the member of the fact that his previous government left us with a $123 billion deficit, which the FCM has recently acknowledged.

This government, in its very first budget, and again upped it in the second budget, took swift and decisive action to speed up a world class infrastructure program for this country, and that was well before the $123 billion deficit report from FCM came out.

Talk is cheap. Let us look at the Liberal record, speaking of cheap.

The numbers speak for themselves. Between 1993 and 2005, the previous Liberal government's commitments to infrastructure averaged about $1.3 billion a year. By comparison, since 2006, since we came into office, and over the course of the seven-year building Canada plan, this government will invest $5 billion a year in public infrastructure. That is a significant amount more than what was invested before.

If that is not a significant investment, I do not know what is. It is an investment that reflects consultations with provinces, territories and municipalities because we listen to the stakeholders. The people who sign our paycheques are taxpayers and we listen to them.

In this motion, the member for Saint John calls for immediate funding toward infrastructure.

While I am happy to report that we are way ahead of the game, way ahead of that party over there, municipalities across the country are already benefiting from the 100% GST rebate and they also have access to the gas tax funding currently. This money is already bearing fruit across the country, where communities are investing in their infrastructure needs, such as, as I mentioned, clean drinking water, which is very important to my residents in northern Alberta, better water treatment facilities, and improved roads and bridges that are so important to the people in Quebec, especially in the Montreal region. It is going to projects in New Brunswick, as it is going to communities in other parts of Canada.

There is a deficit. In Calgary, a $10 billion deficit has been identified. In my own home town of Fort McMurray, there is approximately a $2 billion deficit. There is no section of this country that has been left untouched by this Liberal neglect.

As the member's motion speaks to the gas tax, let me say further that this Conservative government has extended that program by $2 billion per year over the life of the building Canada plan. That is $8 billion in brand new funds for municipal infrastructure. That is good news for our municipalities. That is money municipalities can use to improve the infrastructure they manage and to build the new infrastructure they need in areas such as transit, water and sewage treatment.

I heard the member earlier speak on that very topic. It is correct that it is not just for new infrastructure; it is to manage what is existing now.

On top of that, municipalities will also be able to access the other funding components of our overall plan. So, it is not just the gas tax they can rely on, but a more robust suite of programs that respond to local needs and, at the same time, national priorities.

As well, this government is making clear commitments to infrastructure priorities all across the country in every region.

For example, on October 15, we announced a commitment of up to $50 million to the clean water Huron Elgin London project. This initiative will improve clean drinking water access for 500,000 residents in Ontario. That is great news for some 20 southwestern Ontario municipalities. That is real results.

On November 15 we announced additional funding for the expansion of the Ottawa Congress Centre: $50 million to help this project move forward.

No one level of government can meet every need. All governments, federal, provincial, territorial and municipal, must work together to meet Canada's infrastructure priorities. That is why the building Canada plan involves cooperation among all levels of government, with respect for individual jurisdictions.

This is another example of this government's policy of open federalism. We are going to work in cooperation to get the best results for Canadians.

I am very happy to report that this cooperation is showing real results. We have already, in a short period of time, signed framework agreements under the building Canada fund with British Columbia and Nova Scotia. We look forward to signing more agreements. We are proactively working on that with other provinces and territories.

These agreements provide the means by which we can flow more building Canada dollars to Canada's municipalities and to every Canadian. We are moving forward with key infrastructure priorities with provinces and we are getting positive results.

As part of the framework agreement signed with British Columbia, we announced a commitment of up to $64.2 million toward additional improvements to the Trans-Canada Highway through the Kicking Horse Canyon. When we signed the framework agreement with Nova Scotia, we also announced our commitment of up to $25 million toward the twinning of Highway 104 outside Antigonish. I have seen that highway and it needs it. It is another response by the government for the people of Nova Scotia.

This government, together with the government of Quebec, also announced a commitment of up to $13 million for the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and another commitment of up to $40 million for the Quartier des spectacles. It is great news for the people of Quebec.

In addition, together with the Government of Alberta, we announced a commitment of up to $15 million for the Kinnear Centre for Creativity and Innovation at the Banff Centre, as well as up to $40 million for the Centre of Sport Excellence in Calgary. Those are just some of the examples, but we are getting positive results. We have already started implementing these results and we are going to do much more.

We are also working with the provinces and other key stakeholders to develop strategies to take advantage of Canada's key international gateways and trade corridors that are so important to so many jobs in this country. While the Asia-Pacific gateway and trade corridor initiative was the very first, we now have signed two memorandums of understanding, one with Ontario and Quebec, and another with the Atlantic provinces. It is great news for those regions, great news for the people who work in those areas.

These MOUs provide analytical frameworks for the development of continental and Atlantic gateway strategies. These will help Canada and its cities and communities meet the challenges of globalization, and support Canada's economic prosperity and global competitiveness. Let us face it, we have to be competitive in order to continue to keep our quality of life as high as it is. However, it takes more, a lot more, to meet all these needs and we are going to deliver those needs.

It is no secret that the private sector know-how and capital can make a huge contribution to infrastructure renewal if done properly. The number of public-private partnerships, or P3s as they are called, have multiplied in recent years in many countries around the world.

Governments in these countries are implementing programs aimed at fostering stronger, more flourishing P3 markets. They want to get better results for their citizens just as this Conservative government is going to get and is getting better results for Canadians.

For this reason, our plan provides for the implementation of a public-private partnership fund with a budget of $1.25 billion. Through this fund Canada's government is taking a leading role in developing P3 opportunities and we are getting it right.

We will support innovative projects that provide an alternative to traditional government infrastructure procurement, that offer incentives to attract private sector investment, and that increase knowledge and expertise with regard to other funding solutions that give Canadians real value for their money. Canadians work hard for their tax money and we are going to make sure we get good results for them.

With our building Canada plan and the activities we have already undertaken, we will finally have the means to rebuild our infrastructure on solid foundations, which is necessary for any building, in partnership with Canada's provinces, territories, cities and communities. This is a remarkable challenge, but this Conservative government is up to the challenge.

What we are doing with the building Canada fund goes well beyond the Government of Canada's financial contribution to infrastructure. What we are doing is helping build a Canada of the 21st century, a Canada that will be stronger, safer, and have a better quality of life for all its citizens.

[Mario Laframboise, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I patiently listened to my colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, talk to us about his government's investments.

Nonetheless, there is something he may not have understood. I enjoyed listening to him because he gave examples, but his examples do not apply to the matter at hand, namely help for the municipalities. I do not take issue with him talking about infrastructure investment for the Pacific gateway, but that has nothing to do with the $123 billion municipal infrastructure deficit. That is what we are talking about today.

I wanted to hear the parliamentary secretary talk about how he plans to settle this $123 billion city infrastructure deficit. This deficit was created by the federal government. That is what I have been saying all along.

Since the Liberals decided in the 1990s to achieve zero deficit, they have cut transfers to the provinces. The provinces offloaded more responsibilities on the cities. As a result, the cities have not been able to maintain their infrastructure.

Now the debt is $123 billion. Obviously this needs to be addressed. It is all well and good to say that we can invest in other infrastructures, and that there is money for Highway 30, but that is not what the cities are asking for. They need solutions to their water supply, sewage, public transit, cultural and sporting facility problems; they want to take care of their own infrastructure, not that of the provincial governments.

I wanted the parliamentary secretary to explain how he intends to deal with this $123 billion infrastructure deficit declared by the cities, according to a serious scientific study conducted by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with my friend across the way. He is on the same committee and we have had many discussions. We do not always agree, but we respect each other's views.

In this particular case, I agree with the hon. member 100%. I will not make excuses for the poor job the Liberals did in getting us to this $123 billion deficit in infrastructure across this country. I cannot make excuses for what they did.

What I can say is that we will be part of the solution and $33 billion is part of the solution. We will work with the provinces. We are working with the provinces, as hon. members have heard me give examples, with the territories, and with cities and communities across this country to provide part of the solution.

However, we all have to pull together. We are looking at it as one big picture to solve what is missing in this picture: Canadians' quality of life. We are working to make it better and we are.