House of Commons Hansard #101 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberal.

Topics

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Raymond Simard Liberal Saint Boniface, MB

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. I fully understood the speech given by the Minister of the Environment. However, the question was put to the Prime Minister. When it comes to the issue that has the greatest impact on Canadians at this time, it seems to me that the Prime Minister of a country could rise in the House and show his support for the Kyoto protocol.

It is not up to the Minister of the Environment to speak for the Prime Minister. He has a certain responsibility to answer to Canadians. If he ever wants to be elected with a majority government, he must stand up.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

Mr. Speaker, Canada is a country that is seen around the world as honest, diligent in keeping its commitments, and engaged in multilateralism as a responsible citizen. It is with great sadness, however, that I have witnessed the government abrogate our commitments to the world.

Under the Prime Minister's rule, Canada's government is not taking action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. He is not promoting our responsibilities as a global citizen. He is not listening to the wishes of Canadians.

Not only has the Conservative government failed to build on the success of the first phase of the Liberal program, but it has actively taken steps to dismantle and hamper progressive work that had begun under Liberal governments.

In a gesture that smacks of cynical partisan politics, the Prime Minister is simply re-branding successful Liberal programs that only a year ago he cut. He and his ministers have ignored constructive recommendations. They insist they have a better approach. They insist that their new “hot air act” will get Canada on the road to an improved environment.

Was this because of some conversion on the road to Damascus? No, it was a conversion on the road to new lows in the polls for the Conservative Party, as my friend from Manitoba mentioned earlier.

The Conservative government is being particularly misleading with seemingly effective yet empty rhetoric. On the one hand, the Prime Minister harps on the point that “science has evolved several times in the last” several “decades”. On the other hand, he has re-established proven Liberal programs of the past to deal with his political problems of today.

The Conservative government's ideological view with respect to the environment has been on display for all to see for the past year. A new minister with new talking points who is re-implementing Liberal programs is not going to change the reality of the disaster that is the Conservative record on the environment.

The government should take its cues from the citizens of this country who have been trailblazers in protecting the environment, people like Eliza Olson from my riding of Newton—North Delta, who is a tireless advocate for environmental issues and this year received Earth Day Canada's hometown hero award for her work as the president of the Burns Bog Conservation Society.

The government needs to follow the lead of people like Eliza and not seek to actively undermine the work of everyday citizens who know better. I am certain the government will never see an award for its work on the environment, but let us hope that the minister begins to constructively engage the world rather than undermine the multilateral efforts that we made to sign Kyoto.

I am not going to get into speaking to the science of climate change today as it is clear that climate change is a reality. Even the Conservative ministers whom the Prime Minister allows to speak publicly have finally acknowledged this as well. I have doubts, however, that the majority of the Conservative caucus actually holds this view given statements from many of their members, including the current Prime Minister, who was in opposition at one point.

It was not the Liberal Party that filibustered the ratification of the Kyoto protocol. It was not the Liberal Party that dismantled the Government of Canada's climate action plan, going so far as to even shut down the climate change website.

It was the Conservative Party.

No Conservative plan for the environment is even remotely credible without reconfirming Canada's commitment to honour the principles and targets of the Kyoto protocol in their entirety. I do not know if it has escaped the notice of the Prime Minister and the Minister of the Environment, but Canada signed an international treaty that we should all be under obligation to.

This is likely the first time that the Canadian government has sought to actively undermine and abrogate a treaty that this country has affixed its signature to. It is a disgrace.

The so-called made in Canada plan, designed in the White House, assumes the environment stops at Canada's borders. The bizarre nature of this approach is almost as bad as believing that climate change is not happening in the first place. Even worse, the excuse that we should not act because others are not sets a terrible example.

As a parent, the question I ask my children when they follow a bad example is, “If your friend jumped off a bridge, would you?” The Conservative government's answer to that, unfortunately, is yes.

As the Prime Minister said, “I don't think we should consider signing on to a deal that makes us virtually the sole country in the world that is going to take any action” on climate change.

The Conservative government must create and publish a credible plan to reduce Canada's greenhouse gas emissions to meet Canada's Kyoto commitments and it has not even tried to do so.

I find it incredible that the government introduced an act that does not even have the word Kyoto in its preamble. It is an act that was such a massive failure upon tabling that it was panned by every credible environmental group in Canada, and it cost the former minister of environment her job.

I find it beyond belief that the NDP members even think they can pass a few amendments to a fundamentally flawed bill, in one month, no less, and then claim it will be a credible bill. What is credible is the plan of our Liberal leader, an individual with a tremendous record in advocating for and delivering results on the environment.

I find it amusing when the Conservatives try to attack the credibility of our leader on this issue. They mistakenly believe that Canadians will take the word of the party whose leader has demonstrated verbally and through his writings that he is a climate change denier.

Even more amusing are the attacks on the Liberal's project green, which the Conservatives are re-implementing piece by piece. If proof is demonstrated in action, then the Conservative government is acting in a way that endorses the plan of our Liberal leader.

The government can take immediate action by once again following our Liberal leader's plan and regulating greenhouse gases under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, CEPA, which exists right now. The previous Liberal government listed all six greenhouse gas emissions as CEPA toxic. In refusing to do so, the Conservative government is demonstrating that it is a climate change denier.

It is important, also, to note that CEPA is jointly administered by the Minister of the Environment and, more important, the Minister of Health. This is not just an environmental issue; it is also a health issue.

I would be interested in knowing whether the Minister of Health actually believes that greenhouse gases can be harmful to human health. If his answer is yes, then the minister has just made the case to regulate greenhouse gas emissions under CEPA, not only in the interest of the environment but in the interest of human health for all Canadians.

If the Prime Minister can break his promise to working Canadians on income trusts, then he can break his promise to the Conservative climate change deniers to not implement the Kyoto protocol. Anything less is an abrogation of the government's duty to Canadians and to the world.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Kitchener—Waterloo, The Citizenship Act.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, allow me to commend my colleague on his speech and particularly on the fact that he talked about this being a worldwide problem.

We know how the Conservatives said in the last election campaign, and even before that, that they were going to work on a made in Canada solution, but when we are dealing with a world problem, we have to get the whole world onside.

I am glad that instead of being Kyoto climate change deniers, the Conservatives are trying to paint themselves as Kyoto climate change disciples, but before they get there, they really are going to have to do penance. They have to stand up and explain to Canadians why they were confusing them and why they were using the issue of stopping Kyoto to raise money. I think that is very important in terms of getting back Canadians' confidence in the government. The Conservatives have hard work to do.

I want to touch on another issue, but I do not think I will get an answer to it. Let me ask my colleague about it. The Conservatives are always saying the Liberals did nothing for 13 years. I think my colleague would agree with me that in the 13th year since 1993, with the 13th year belonging to the Conservative government, nothing has been done on climate change. The government delayed the implementation of Kyoto by a full year and for that it--

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Newton--North Delta.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for raising this issue. My friends on the other side keep talking about the 13 years of the Liberal record. I can tell members that I am very proud of the Liberal record. The former Liberal government was the only government that brought the country out of debt. It was only the former Liberal government that made Canada the first nation in the world where people wanted to invest.

When it comes to the environment, I will talk about two plans that we had. Even before we signed the Kyoto agreement, we included, in budget 2000, $625 million for programs to accelerate climate change research and science and to reduce GHG emissions. In 2000, the Liberal government announced its five year action plan, with some $500 million toward concrete measures to reduce greenhouse gases by about 65 megatonnes each year. If we look at the year 2003--

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I am sorry to interrupt, but we have to go on to the next question.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, no offence to my colleague, but having listened to this debate this afternoon, I must say that I find it absolutely dismal, because taking on the flat earth science crowd over there should be like shooting fish in a barrel, but what I am hearing from my colleagues in the Liberal Party is simply a lot of chest-beating about what was not done.

We were in the House when we heard the present Liberal leader's plan for the environment. That was voluntary emission standards. We were pushing, saying that we would never get to our targets if we simply allowed industry to self-regulate. That was the Liberal plan: self-regulation, no worries, everything would be fine. We did not meet any of the targets. They have been abysmal targets.

In light of this dismal, bitter back and forth between the Liberals and Conservatives, what I want to say is that we have the question before us and an opportunity to take action in this House. That means more than simply putting on a green scarf. We have an all party committee and we can put in serious long term commitments that would be binding on the present government and the next government.

Will the member work with us to ensure that this passes speedily so that at the end of this Parliament, whenever it may be, we can all go back to the Canadian people and tell them that for once we used this Parliament and all four parties to work together to deliver something? Or are we just going to hear more political hot air for the next year?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC

Mr. Speaker, I must say that it is bizarre to hear the NDP members continuing to attack the Liberals when their party actually supports Kyoto. That is what I am talking about. We should be working toward a plan that is no less than the Kyoto plan. I am just wondering why my NDP colleagues are cozying up to the Conservative government, the party that--

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Resuming debate. The hon. member for Western Arctic.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my hon. colleague, the member for Victoria.

Members of the Liberal Party have been waving around a five year old letter from the Prime Minister when he was leader of the Alliance Party. In this letter the Prime Minister made statements about Kyoto being a socialist plan to export Canadian wealth. Yesterday it was the only question the Liberals could ask in the House, but both the Prime Minister and the Liberals are wrong. Shipping Canadian dollars to other countries as the Liberals would have done to meet Kyoto is actually a capitalist plan. It is a plan to ensure that corporations can continue to expand their markets and find a way to deal with Kyoto at the lowest possible cost without any worry about the effect on the global environment.

All around the world the successful countries that have dealt with climate change are social democratic countries which have values which the NDP also has. We have a plan to meet Kyoto and it is a plan based on social democratic principles which will build the Canadian economy, create jobs for average Canadians and save working families money on their energy bills.

One of the key elements in the NDP plan is to change how we deal with energy. Canada needs an energy strategy. We need to ensure there is clean energy available not just for today but for our children and grandchildren, not a plan that allows a laissez-faire system to exist in this country to recklessly produce and sell off our fossil fuel resources.

What would a strategy look like? The primary goal of an energy strategy must be to provide a secure energy supply sufficient to meet our needs. However, these needs primarily must be reduced. By reducing the needs it will enable the most rapid transition as possible to an energy regime based on conservation and the sustainable use of renewable energy.

The goal of an energy policy must definitely not be merely to produce as much energy as possible to meet a growing global demand with no regard for social and environmental impacts. Conservation and reduction of energy consumption must be one of the pillars of an energy strategy. Consuming less energy will reduce greenhouse gas emissions, reduce air pollution and save ordinary Canadians money. Those are all laudable goals.

The second pillar of an energy strategy is to replace non-renewable energy sources with renewable ones. To do this our strategy would include actions to develop a thriving renewable energy industry in Canada, particularly wind, small hydro, solar and biomass. All of these are possible. All of these are important and all of these can happen in our system.

We need the creation of a crown corporation to assist communities, commercial and industrial interests at the community level, to help create these kinds of energy which are not transported mainly by pipes or transmission lines but really deal with how we use energy at home and in the community.

We need to install 100,000 solar roofs to get our solar energy program going. We are falling behind the rest of the world. Our country has an abysmal record of supporting solar energy.

We need to invest in cogeneration. One of the simplest and most fundamental ways that northern countries save energy is cogeneration; use the waste heat that is produced in industrial and electrical processes.

We need investment in sustainable public transport.

We need to provide funding to support the development of community groups and non-profit organizations to promote activities which have these values and put these values in front of Canadians which allow small businesses, individuals and community governments to make the best of the energy systems that are available to them.

A gradual transition to a sustainable renewable energy regime allowing maximum use of attrition and ensuring planned decreases in production can be accomplished and can save jobs, and can provide a reasonable transition to a new economy.

However, any strategy for Canada would be incomplete if it did not address fossil fuels. When we talk about addressing fossil fuels, I do not think we only want to talk about bringing liquefied natural gas into this country to replace a rapidly declining resource that was so mishandled through the 1980s and 1990s by successive Liberal governments.

The NDP strategy would conduct a complete assessment of federal subsidies and incentives to the energy sector, with input from relevant stakeholders, accompanied by the establishment of a specific timetable for the rapid elimination of environmentally harmful subsidies and incentives, particularly those associated with the oil and gas industry.

In order to share my time with my hon. colleague from Victoria, I will bring my debate to a conclusion.

Finally, an energy strategy for Canada must put Canada's energy needs first, not those of the United States, not made in Washington with the North American energy working group giving direction to this country. We need our own energy strategy. We need it in conjunction with the Kyoto plan. Without that energy strategy, we will not get to Kyoto.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, I wholeheartedly agree with my colleague that we have to utilize alternative energy resources.

When Elizabeth May, the leader of the Green Party, was asked why she disliked the leader of the NDP so much, she responded very directly. She said it was because he conspired with the Conservatives to bring down the Liberal government on the eve of the climate change conference that was being managed for Canada by the present Liberal leader.

Would my colleague not agree with me that 2006 was a total waste for the Kyoto protocol because the NDP was instrumental in bringing down the Liberal government?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Mr. Speaker, throughout the debate today we have heard constant accusations from both sides. Of course the Liberals want to bring the New Democratic Party into the game they are playing with the Conservatives of who is at fault here. The NDP is not interested in who is at fault here. We are here to do something for Canadians right now.

When we look at the Liberal record over many years on many subjects, there is an old saying which makes sense here, that the best indicator of future performance is the past performance. When we look at the past performance of the Liberal Party over 13 years, it was really a sham. How could anyone use the promises of that party in 2005 to judge its relevance for staying in office?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, because people back home who are watching this important debate may find it confusing, I would ask my colleague if he would illuminate the two fundamental questions that are constantly being skipped over and not answered.

In terms of the Conservative Party, the fundamental question is whether those members really believe the science of climate change. Do the Conservatives really believe in greenhouse gases, or as the Prime Minister says, the so-called greenhouses gases? When the Conservatives are pushed on this, they change the subject.

However, there is an equally disturbing game being played by the Liberal Party. When we ask the Liberals what actual steps they will take to get something done in terms of working on an all party committee to bring in clear regulations, they throw the question around and say that it is the NDP or something else. The Liberals will not answer the question.

I ask my friend why does he think that the two main parties continue to play games in the House today and refuse to answer straightforward questions?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Western Arctic. I would appreciate a short answer because I would like to fit in another question.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Mr. Speaker, I think the situation is such that energy, the environment and climate change are important issues right now. There is the thought that we will come to a solution in this Parliament and that the four parties working together would take this out of the next campaign when we are next in front of the voters.

The Liberals want to keep some doubt in this process and I think that is something that is shameful. Let us get on with this and get it done. There are four parties here that are willing to work. Let us put this political partisanship--

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Saskatoon—Humboldt should be mindful that there is a minute for both the question and the answer.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bradley Trost Conservative Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK

I will make it very short, Mr. Speaker. I was interested to listen to the accusations ping-pong between the Liberals and the NDP.

Is the hon. member aware that when the Kyoto accord was ratified, the NDP government of Saskatchewan was opposed to Kyoto? Cabinet ministers criticized it. While it is fine for New Democrats in opposition to say one thing, when they are in government they do something else. I wonder if my hon. friend was aware of that fact.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Western Arctic. We are running out the clock but I will allow you a moment to reply.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Dennis Bevington NDP Western Arctic, NT

Mr. Speaker, once again, none of this assists us in bringing forward the kinds of policies that are required to go in the clean air act to make this work for Canadians.

We are not living in the past. This is 2007. We need to move. Let us move on this issue. Let us make it happen.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Denise Savoie NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to this very important issue, an issue that is crucial to our common future.

We will need to tell our children what we did about this issue while we still have the opportunity. We have seen today how difficult it is to get past this appalling partisan debate, this ping-pong back and forth.

Eminent scientists, like climatologist Dr. Andrew Weaver, have sounded the alarm and have called for immediate action if we are to prevent the feedback loop that is inherent in the climate change process.

Mr. John Robinson from UBC has said that the barriers to moving forward are not technological. He said that the fundamental things we need to do are policy changes that focus on the rules of the game with regulatory mechanisms.

I would like to try to deal with the motion at hand and what can be done to combat climate change. The issue of CEPA as a tool against climate change versus having legislation that would enforce action of the government has been raised several times by members of the Liberal Party. We have heard that CEPA allows government to act, and that is precisely the problem. It only enables government action. To actually get the action, we need to trust the government to act behind closed doors to do something.

I once heard a former environment minister lament that he could not get his cabinet colleagues to act on climate change, as he put it, to act in the public interest. That is what happens if we leave the process behind closed doors. To say that CEPA could be used to tackle climate change is asking Canadians to accept that the fight against climate change happens at the whim of government behind closed doors in cabinet. We need legislation to set concrete objectives on absolute reductions of our greenhouse gas emissions. We need legislatively binding targets.

Instead of talking about who is worse on the environment, let us talk about what needs to happen because, frankly, we have done a poor job. We need to look primarily at how we produce and how we consume energy. We cannot gloss over just intensity based targets or even look, as the Minister of Natural Resources seems to, at ways to clean up the dirty energy. He seems to have boundless enthusiasm for nuclear energy.

We need to look at absolute reductions of our energy production and consumption and we need to decouple economic growth from the consumption of fossil fuels, as both Liberals and Conservative seem reluctant to do in reining in the accelerated exploration of the tar sands. When we do get honest answers about why the Liberals have not acted on climate change in an effective way, they confess that they did not want to hurt the economy.

We need to take a lead on new technologies, look at solutions toward the bioeconomy and look at green technology, green energy. Thanks to the loud voice of Canadians, the government is finally starting to get it. While the government talks about taking action, we have proposed a legislative committee and invited all parties to bring their best solutions to allow us to come away from this Parliament having taken action.

I invite my colleagues to think seriously about what they will tell their children if we miss this opportunity.

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

It being 5:15 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, all questions necessary to dispose of the opposition motion are deemed put and a recorded division deemed requested and deferred until Monday, February 5, 2007 at 6:30 p.m..

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think you would find unanimous consent to see the clock at 5:30 p.m..

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Does the hon. parliamentary secretary have the unanimous consent of the House to see the clock as 5:30 p.m.?

Opposition Motion—The EnvironmentBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.