Debates of May 17th, 2007

National Defence—Main Estimates 2007-08

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I am going to stop the hon. parliamentary secretary because we have to allow the other parliamentary secretary enough time to respond.

We will go to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence for about 15 seconds.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, it is going to be difficult to answer in 15 seconds. If the member was going to ask about the two operations that were occurring in the Arctic, I can assure him that they were successful. They were very helpful in demonstrating our ability to successfully operate in this very complex theatre.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to come back to some questions I have already asked, which the minister managed to sidestep very skilfully. The minister is very good at stick handling his way around a question, but I do realize that the minister cannot answer all of the questions.

Does the minister make a commitment to provide me with answers once he has consulted with his people on the range for eastern Canada?

Can the minister give us a progress report on the range for eastern Canada and tell us when he plans to table the findings of the report and to make them public?

The minister is not obliged to answer this question because he gave me an answer earlier. I got the same replies a few months ago, and I want an answer that is more current. Can the minister give me an answer?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, on the matter of the range, I understand the air force is studying it or has been studying it. I have received no information from it on such a topic. When I get a conclusion, if it is not classified, I will inform the member of the result.

However, to date I have had no indication from the air force that it has a requirement for the range.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would like to also revisit a question concerning French in the armed forces.

What does the minister intend to do to ensure that francophones have a place other than on the front lines?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not quite get the tenor of that question. Twenty-eight per cent of all general officers are francophone and 24% of the officer corps is francophone. The francophones for many decades have enjoyed a full career in the armed forces. Many of the recent chiefs of the defence staff were francophones.

Therefore, I do not understand the tenor of the member's question. Francophones have the full ability to enjoy the benefits of the Canadian Forces.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, the minister's replies concerning the prisoners handed over to Afghan authorities have zigzagged skilfully. I asked how many prisoners had been transferred since 2002. That strikes me as a precise question which the minister could make an effort to answer.

Can the minister tell us how many prisoners have been handed over since 2002?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I have said on a number of occasions, details concerning prisoners are operational and I will not discuss operational matters.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, of course the minister is going to say these are questions of an operational nature. I would still like to ask my questions on the prisoners handed over to Afghan authorities.

My question is for the Minister of National Defence. Where are these prisoners and in how many centres?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I do not know if the member is asking for the number of detention centres in Afghanistan or the number of detention centres that the Afghanistan government eventually wants to concentrate any detainees that we may have handled.

However, if the member wants those answers, he will have to talk to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister know how much it would cost for a detention centre run jointly by NATO countries and Afghanistan?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, the department is not considering, in fact it is not even in its mandate to consider, detention centres in Afghanistan.

I am not aware of any consideration, but if there were any consideration, the member would have to check with the Department of Foreign Affairs.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, the minister says that this is not in his department's mandate. However, I would like to ask another question on the same subject.

Since he is the Minister of National Defence and he was once a general, does the minister have an idea of how much it costs and how many people it takes to operate these detention centres?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, I must clarify again, as I did earlier, the responsibility of the defence department. Beyond operations and assisting in the development of Afghanistan, when it comes to detainees, the responsibility of the defence department, should it have detainees, is to treat them properly, in accordance with all military laws.

When they are processed, recorded et cetera, they are handed over to the Afghan authorities, and the International Red Cross and the human rights commission are informed of the transfer. That is the responsibility of the defence department. It has no responsibility beyond that point.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister think that some Canadian soldiers could be prosecuted for turning detainees over to the Afghan authorities, knowing that they would be tortured, and how can he be so sure?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, I have not been made aware from the department of any abuse or any torture of any detainee. I have never been informed of a case, period.

Our Canadian Forces operate to the highest standards. As I have said, they operate to the standards of all the international laws governing war, including the Geneva convention, and there is no basis for thinking that the Canadian Forces are doing anything improper.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, in the event soldiers were prosecuted, what would be the Canadian government's position?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is a hypothetical question that is beyond my ability to answer at this moment.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Chair, in 2006, the Conservative government announced sweeping changes that would see several thousand more people hired over the next five years. The Canadian Forces indicated that such an increase was vital if they were to be able to meet operational requirements.

In May 2006, the Auditor General reported that in four years, National Defence had succeeded in recruiting 20,000 members, but that its ranks had grown by only 700 soldiers who were trained during that same period. The Auditor General added that recruitment and attrition problems were putting the Canadian Forces' expansion plans at risk.

Can the minister say how personnel are being recruited at present?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, rebuilding the armed forces from a manpower point of view is a challenge because of the gutting of the military strength in the 1990s, when the forces lost many officers and NCOs.

We are rebuilding the training system and the recruiting system. We have added many efficiencies over the last year in the recruiting system. In the last year there have been more than 5,000 members lost through attrition because of age or other reasons, but beyond that, the regular force grew by approximately 1,015.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government promised to recruit more soldiers. How does he intend to assure us that this promise will be kept?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I have said, we are rebuilding the recruiting system and rebuilding the training system. As time goes on we become more and more efficient and we can recruit at a higher rate.

We have had to deal with manpower deficits. We are overcoming that. As I said, last year we increased by 1,015.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative government promised, in the last election campaign, to establish a certain number of battalions.

The Conservative government promised to establish a batallion in my riding of Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, in Bagotville to be exact. Can the minister advise us of the schedule for establishing this batallion in Bagotville?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Chair, we will meet our commitment to Bagotville. The details of that option are being worked out at this moment.

[Robert Bouchard, Bloc, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would have liked to have had more information, such as the budget and the infrastructures, but I see that the minister says that that will come a little later. I will finish up now to give my colleague an opportunity to ask other questions.