Debates of Dec. 1st, 2008

Economic and Fiscal Statement

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Speaker, a member said that it is our fiction. I read the list of the four well-respected groups.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on September 9, 2004, a letter was sent to Her Excellency, Right Hon. Adrienne Clarkson, which stated, “As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government's program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated”.

The letter was signed by the leader of the opposition at that time, who is the current Prime Minister, the leader of the Bloc Québécois, who is the current leader of the Bloc, and the leader of the New Democratic Party, who is the current leader of the NDP.

What is the difference? The Conservatives have said that we are attacking democracy today, but they did it with us on September 9, 2004, three months after the June 2004 election. What is the difference today?

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is the type of straw of desperation the opposition members are grasping at to justify their position.

The reality is, if they wanted to vote this government down, they could have voted against our Speech from the Throne, which they did not. They supported it. If they want to vote against our economic statement and go to an election, which is what was being talked about, they are free to do that. Canadians are tired of elections. Six weeks ago they elected us to govern this country with a near majority, with a stronger level of support than last time. If the opposition members want to go to an election, they can choose to do that.

However, I want to say we never talked about a coalition. We would never get in bed with the separatists and we would certainly never get in bed with the socialists and have the leader of the socialists as finance minister of this country. That is absurd.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my hon. colleague from Vegreville—Wainwright on the excellent speech he gave in the House recently. He talked about several numbers and refuted the opposition critic on several of his points. He did an excellent job of that.

He talked about something that none of the opposition members have talked about. He said that rather than stay in Ottawa hatching backroom deals, he has been in his riding. I would be interested in his expanding on what he is hearing from his constituents on this economic update and how it is affecting their lives.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can tell from the question that the member has been in his constituency talking to his constituents about this instead of hatching up a deal in a backroom, as the three opposition parties have been doing.

Almost to a person my constituents are saying that this is the most ridiculous thing they have ever seen in Canadian politics. They cannot believe this third world measure of throwing aside a democratically elected government and putting an unelected government in place through a backroom deal is happening.

Unfortunately, the talk of separation in my constituency has risen in leaps and bounds. In fact, it was almost completely gone because people appreciate the government they are getting from the Prime Minister and the Conservative Party. The last thing they want is for a coup to actually take place, but if it does, I am extremely concerned that the separatist sentiments may be more than just talk this time.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, there were a lot of strange things the member mentioned in his speech, especially the fiction of this economic statement.

He mentioned the vote on the Speech from the Throne and that we supported it. Yes, we did. Why? Because at that time we actually believed that the Prime Minister would co-operate and make this Parliament work. That is what he said to the premiers as well. What the Prime Minister did through this economic statement clearly violated that trust of co-operation with the opposition parties. He came in with what is clearly a document of fiction.

Let me move to the point on coalitions. Whether that side of the House believes it or not, the majority of Canadian votes happens to be on this side of the House. The government has 22% of eligible voters' support.

Let me quote what the Prime Minister said on coalitions some time ago. In a letter to the then governor general, Adrienne Clarkson, he said:

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority.

That is a quote from a letter written by the current Prime Minister. The member tried to talk about that being fiction a minute ago. The Prime Minister wrote that letter in support of a coalition.

[Leon Benoit, Conservative, Vegreville—Wainwright, AB]

Mr. Speaker, he is another opposition member who is desperately grasping at straws to justify what is an unjustifiable position.

In fact, what happened back then was the Prime Minister, after a budget had been presented, made a decision to try to topple the government and go to an election. That is totally different from what the opposition members are doing. There was never any talk of a coalition. If opposition parties choose now to topple the government and go to an election, let the people have a say on that. They may not be tolerated well in bringing on another election, but if they want to do that, they can do it. That is the democratic thing to do.

They do not care about democracy. They are grasping. They have such an untamed lust for power, they will do anything to get it. That is what they are doing.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Acadie—Bathurst, a fine member of the House of Commons and one who still holds our great trust as whip of our party.

I want to thank the constituents in my riding. I have not had an opportunity to do so since I was elected, and before any further action in the House, I would like to make sure that they know I appreciate their efforts in supporting me in my re-election. It was an interesting election. It was called at the last moment by a government that wanted to avoid the approaching economic crisis. I would also like to thank the Prime Minister, along with members of his cabinet, who took the time to visit my riding and spend some time there the week before the election. I would suggest that people would want to come back when there is not an election going on and try the fishing. They are likely to get a bigger catch that way, and they will probably enjoy themselves tremendously. The Northwest Territories is one of the finest places for fishing in the world.

My riding is a special place. It got attention in the throne speech because we know there is development ahead in our riding. There is ongoing development that has great potential but it also presents great challenges to our population. We need to understand how to regulate that well and how to get the advantage out of that development just as all the other provinces have gotten advantage from development to build their societies in a fashion that fits their population.

We face tremendous challenges of lack of proper infrastructure. We are expected to move into the 21st century of resource extraction, huge developments, but we do not even have proper roads yet. In the spring one of our main highways into the Northwest Territories was shut down for a month because the road base had completely deteriorated. We cannot even upgrade and maintain our roads because we are a small population over huge amounts of territory and those costs are escalating all the time. We in the Northwest Territories understand about the lack of infrastructure and the problems that it presents for many societies just as much as people in cities where overpasses are falling down and proper transit is not yet in place.

We are also experiencing rapidly increasing costs. They have been tempered somewhat by the lowering of the price of crude oil in the world, but that is a temporary aberration. We are sure to return to the point where the cost of living in the north will continue to escalate without the kind of green infrastructure and investment in renewable energy and energy efficiency that can make a reasonable and affordable society in the north.

We are also facing tremendous impact from climate change. I had an opportunity to have discussions with people who are studying permafrost. Over the eight years they have been studying permafrost in the southern Dehcho region of the Northwest Territories, there has been a 20% decline in the permafrost within the boreal forest in that region. That changes many things when it comes to infrastructure, road building, and many of the other things we need to accomplish in the north. It also points to the tremendous changes we are experiencing in the north and the continuing great need to take hold of those issues.

Corporations working in the north are experiencing downturns. We are seeing layoffs in our diamond mines, especially in the expansion of the existing mines. We are seeing layoffs with many of the subcontractors who are working for these mines. We are seeing layoffs in the exploration companies that are looking for new resources across northern Canada. We are seeing layoffs in the aviation industry. This is a key indicator of the kind of activity that is going on. This is taking place right across northern Canada.

We are seeing a downturn in the economy. It is one that poses very much a problem for the future of Canada. Without exploration or opportunities to understand what we have, we are going to find ourselves falling behind in our main business which is resource development. That is what we do in the north and is likely what we will continue to do.

The corporations do not need tax cuts. They need infrastructure investment which would reduce their costs, reduce their environmental footprints, and make a better place for the north.

The economic and fiscal statement failed to meet the needs that are in front of us. Why? It is misleadingly optimistic and does not address the real issues ahead of us. We are in a resource-based export economy. Commodities have just suffered their largest downturn in over 30 years. This happened within the last four months. The impact on manufacturing and forestry in the country was ongoing and continues for a number of years, and matches the more immediate economic impacts that we are seeing in every other industrialized country.

The true problem in our economy will come after many other economies that have more secondary production have seen downturns. Our downturn is yet to come, so we must be very careful with what we are doing.

The contraction in the world economy will hit us harder and will be more apparent in the months to come. This does not come forth in the document before us. It does not speak to the future of the country. It makes these projections based on error.

We need our own plan for reinvestment. The government cannot leave this to the private sector through its tax cuts and expect that the kind of infrastructure that is required for the growth of all of us will take place. We need to change as well our directions in infrastructure. We need to make investments in infrastructure that will lead us to a greener future. We cannot look on this downturn as simply a matter of surviving and moving on with the same economy that we have. We need to change. We need to move ahead with a new vision for the country.

What else is wrong with the statement? Many of the issues presented in the economic statement were of a partisan, combative and petty nature. While some of these have been withdrawn, they leave all of us in the opposition assured of our opinion that the Conservative administration cannot be trusted.

How can we trust the government for a substantive, effective and timely economic intervention in a budget that is going to come a little later on when it presents this kind of case to us today, when it shows its nature, to cloud the very important economic issues that are in front of us with these petty little games that it has chosen to play? I think all Conservative members understand what I am talking about.

We need a Parliament that works, a Parliament that can deliver results and that can bring us all onside. We do not need this kind of action in Parliament. I saw this for the last two and a half years. I saw the bullying that went on. I saw the way that the government developed its majority through badgering rather than through co-operation. I do not see this changing. I was hoping for change when I came into this Parliament. I was hoping that the government would give us real direction for co-operation. Instead, what we saw was more of the same, the same kind of treatment that made us tired of this place in the last Parliament, made us realize that instead of co-operating, we were into confrontation on so many issues. Really, as Canadians, we had no reason for that.

We need an attitude change in this Parliament and the only way that we, as the opposition right now, can accomplish that is the direction in which we are moving. If we can do this, we can deliver results for the country. We can make a difference for the country. Without it, it will be more of the same.

[Paul Szabo, Liberal, Mississauga South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his constructive and thoughtful input into this debate on the economic statement. He made a number of statements relating to what we have seen in this Parliament since January 2006 when the Conservatives first took office.

It was a minority Parliament and this is a minority Parliament. People know that a minority Parliament requires co-operation and consultation to make it work. It has not happened. What we have had is campaigning rather than governing on behalf of the Conservative Party.

There is an undertaking to have a budget maybe sometime at the end of January. This is not going to happen early enough. I think we need to do some things, like get on with the infrastructure funding, and get on with key sector support for manufacturing, auto, forestry, et cetera. These are the kinds of things that are going to either reduce imminent job loss or are going to create opportunities for job creation.

I wonder if the member agrees that we need either a mini-budget or something else from the government very quickly to say how it is going to put the interests of the people ahead of its political--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The hon. member for Western Arctic.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, I agree totally. We need a strong message right now. We need to know that the government is willing to invest heavily in the right sectors to make the right differences. We need an indication of that.

To his other point about the partisanship, the Conservative government wants to cut out the federal financing for parties. Well, in the previous two years when it took its party money and invested it in TV ads slamming the new Liberal leader, slamming him mercilessly, it used those public funds for partisan purposes.

What political parties should be using federal financing for is to develop their positions, to develop interest across the country in the political process, that is what it is for. What these guys did in the last Parliament was unconscionable.

[Merv Tweed, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the member's comments. I have listened to the comments that have been passed back and forth here.

It seems hard for me to understand. I know the member's leader is talking about withdrawing the $50 billion in tax credits for businesses that are actually asking for it as part of a stimulus to create the jobs that we are trying to save in Canada. It just strikes me as awkward that we put forward a $50 million package to encourage business to keep growing, to stimulate business, and now the leader of the New Democrats wants to remove it.

Where do we draw the parallel of how he would help industries? We know that the automotive industry is looking for billions of dollars in bailouts right now. If he were to withdraw corporate benefits that actually create jobs that they are hoping save, how would the member balance that out for the people of Canada?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, I have already argued that so many times in the House that I do not want to get into it again. The point is that tax cuts of a billion dollars provide about 5,000 to 6,000 jobs in this economy, investing it in infrastructure is about 11,000 jobs, and investing in green infrastructure is probably 14,000 jobs per billion dollars.

When we look at what we require to make our companies competitive, to make them productive, I think infrastructure investment, careful delineation of that along with particular incentive packages for industry to invest in the right directions, those are the things that are more important than tax cuts right now.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this economic statement is missing the child. It used to be, for instance, as in the last budget, that there would be a reference to children. This statement has nothing that would provide child care support or an increase in the child tax benefit. It seems like children have been forgotten again.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Mr. Speaker, the economic stimulus in the service sector is even better. When we talk about jobs created for dollars invested, we are really talking about a very attractive proposition. I think those sorts of ideas have to be put forward as well. Our party has those ideas, and we will put them forward.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking the people of my riding of Acadie—Bathurst for having given me their support and confidence for the fifth time. My gratitude is sincere.

I would also like to thank the member for Western Arctic, who is sharing his time with me so that I can talk about the economic and fiscal statement.

When I was first elected in 1997, I was elected for one reason, as many Canadians know. At the time, I was elected because previous governments had, since 1986, chosen to transfer money from the employment insurance fund to the consolidated revenue fund. Once they started transferring money from the employment insurance fund to the consolidated revenue fund, the EI fund became the government's cash cow, as I have always said.

At the time, governments could not resist the idea of using the surplus in the EI fund to balance the budget and achieve a zero deficit at workers' expense. After that, it was hard to make them listen to reason and put the employment insurance system back to the way it was.

During the most recent election campaign, I was a candidate, and I also watched the news. I remember hearing the current Prime Minister of Canada, who was also Prime Minister during the campaign, tell Canadians that they should not be scared of him, as some people suggested. The Prime Minister added that even if he were to be re-elected as the head of a minority government, he would work with Parliament and the opposition. That is what he said during the election campaign.

Personally, I got the feeling that he was trying to lull people into believing that they had nothing to fear from him as Prime Minister, but I did not believe him.

The day after the election, the Prime Minister said on the radio that Canadians and Quebeckers had chosen a minority government that now promised to go back to Ottawa and work with the opposition for the good of our country. Today the Conservatives are asking what the opposition wants. They say the only party that has given the government any ideas on the economic statement is the Bloc Québécois. Everybody knows, though, that the leader of the New Democratic Party, as well as the leader of the Liberal Party, met with the Prime Minister and shared his ideas about the economy. In one way or another, everyone has shared his or her views on the economic statement, whether in discussions or on a piece of paper.

I would go even further. In view of the fact that the Prime Minister and the finance minister are leading a minority government, did they go to the opposition to find out what it wanted to see in the economic statement?

The day after the election, the Prime Minister said that he would work with the opposition. That is not what has happened though. It is just like what happened two and a half years ago. Since January 2006, it has always been his way or the highway. If the opposition did not like his way of governing, it could just go ahead and trigger an election and vote against the Conservatives.

This time, though, I think he pushed the wrong button. There were two buttons, and he wanted a repeat of what happened over the last two years: my way or the highway. He never thought in his economic statement about the problems facing Canada, all the closings of paper mills, whether in Newcastle, New Brunswick, or in Miramichi, whether in Bathurst, Dalhousie, New Richmond or Abitibi, whether in northern Ontario or in the Prince George region. He never thought of that. No. The Conservatives said instead in their economic and financial statement that they would freeze the salaries of public servants and take away their right to strike.

What did these people do to the government? Why take the right to strike away from the people who serve our country?

There is something else too: they are going to look into selling our crown corporations. They do not say which ones. Is it Canada Post, which does such a good job in our country? Is it Radio-Canada? Is it the CBC? Are those the ones they want to sell or privatize? Is that the direction they are going but do not want to tell us? For my part, I am not interested in that.

I am more interested in having crown corporations and people who represent the citizens of Canada. Air Canada was sold, and that was a mistake. CN was sold, and that was a mistake. Petro-Canada was sold, and in my view, that too was a mistake. What do the Conservatives want? They do not believe the federal government has responsibilities toward the people of Canada. They think the federal government is here just to pass legislation. That is what they think, but it gets worse.

What does putting 14-year-olds in prison have to do with an economic and financial statement? When the Prime Minister rose to deliver his address in response to the Speech from the Throne, already he was getting into controversial waters: he was talking about putting 14-year-olds behind bars. What does that have to do with today's economy? We know perfectly well that instead of putting our young people behind bars, we should be investing in the regions, we should be investing in our municipalities, we should be investing in rural regions and making sure that our young people do not end up behind bars. But none of that is there, there are no investments. Instead, we are going to build prisons and lock our young people up in them. I am not in favour of that.

The infrastructure of our municipalities is suffering today. Bridges have to be built all across Canada. In Quebec, for example, there were problems in Laval: a bridge collapsed and people lost their lives, and so today bridges have to replaced everywhere. Why would we not be investing in our people and our infrastructure, instead of simply handing money to this bank and that bank? Why are we not committing funds to build infrastructure, to create jobs and to make sure that our people can earn money and pay their debts, their mortgages and so on? Why not, Mr. Speaker? Why are we not moving in that direction instead?

On the weekend, I was looking at a table of all the countries that have allocated money because of the economic slowdown. The United States has done it, England has done it, France has also done it. Canada: zero, absolutely nothing.

What is being done to provide assistance for childcare? You will ask me whether this is something that should be in an economic or financial statement. Yes, because today, both parents have to work. We have to have childcare spaces so we can send our children there, where they will be cared for safely by people who are well paid. Instead, what the Conservatives chose to do was to give every family $100 per child. And then, in March, when people file their tax returns, they will be giving that money back to the government. That is what the Conservatives have done. That is not the system people want.

I am proud and hopeful that we will move in the right direction, and that the majority in this Parliament will be able to lead this country, once and for all, with the welfare of all Canadians and working men and women and ordinary people in mind, and not just for those who make millions of dollars at the expense of the poor.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Mr. Speaker, has the member from the NDP taken into consideration what economists and investors are saying right now?

The Canadian Press stated that uncertainty in Ottawa “could send financial markets and the loonie...even lower”. This was according to economists.

Economists say the uncertainty plaguing the political scene could send financial markets and the loonie sinking even lower amid growing economic tumult.

“If we don’t know who the government will be, markets tend to be a little more unsettled and foreign investors in particular are not going to be comfortable investing in a place in which the leadership is unknown,” said Eric Lascelles, an economist with TD Securities.

Canada’s main stock index, the S&P/TSX composite, fell more than 725 points halfway through the trading day Monday as the Liberals and NDP worked to firm up details of a potential [coup d’état].

Why would the NDP member imperil jobs at this time? He is listening to economists saying this and he is seeing the effects on the market. At the same time, I--

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The member for Acadie—Bathurst.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the member asks if I have listened to the economists. I was pretty pleased when I heard Mr. Drummond, the vice-president of the Toronto Dominion Bank and one of the top economists in the banking industry, say that the government should make changes to the employment insurance system to help people who have lost their jobs because it is hard on the economy. We should not transfer people from jobs to welfare. We should keep them in the labour market. They should be able to get a job one day and not just go on welfare and not go back to work.

Why did the Conservative Party not listen to that well-respected economist and make changes to the employment insurance system when it looked at its future fiscal projections? Why did it not take that into consideration when most workers across the country have requested changes to the employment insurance system? Only 32% of women qualify right now for EI and only 38% of men. Why does it not listen to the economists? We have listened to them.

[Bernard Patry, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for Acadie—Bathurst for his very energetic speech. He spoke at length about employment insurance, but I would like to know if the member saw any positive measures for the seniors and homeless in our country in the Minister of Finance's economic update?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question. There is absolutely nothing in this update. The government wanted to attack workers by freezing salaries or taking away their right to strike. It wanted to create a political crisis instead of dealing with the economic crisis.

I sometimes meet seniors at home. For the ones who worked in the woods or in the fishing industry and who have no pension fund—maybe not those who were lucky enough to have a pension fund or something similar—there is absolutely nothing for them. There is nothing in terms of a supplement to help these people.

Poor people have told me that it has come to the point where even the food banks are wanting. Christmas is not yet here, and they are already empty and unable to help people. That is where the Conservative government has brought us.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, when I ran for election in 2006, and, of course, in 2008, I ran on a banner called “Stand up for Canada”. I believe I took on a position of standing for this great nation in standing in the House.

I heard a tape of the hon. member's leader talking about how his party plotted and planned with a party committed to the destruction of this country. Why does the member not believe in Canada in the same way I do? Why would he line up with those who would choose to destroy our great nation?

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The member for Acadie-Bathurst has the floor to answer briefly.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on September 9, 2004, the leader of the Conservative Party, who is the Prime Minister of this country, signed a letter with the leader of the Bloc Quebecois, who is here today, requesting the Governor General to consider asking the opposition parties, which had the majority, to form the government at that time. At that time it was good for the party of the member opposite to deal with the separatists.

I have the letter in my hand. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, if you agree, I will table the letter. If the House agrees, I will table the letter.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Is there unanimous consent to table the letter?