House of Commons Hansard #46 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was aboriginal.

Topics

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, in less than a minute I am going to try to rattle through the member's questions as fast as I possibly can. When it comes to dealing with the unemployment rates, we have created 700,000 new jobs in a two year period. That record has been unequalled by any government in the past that I know of and in any time period in history.

We also see what is coming which is a looming slowdown in the United States as a country because of what is happening in the housing industry there.

This government brought in $60 billion reduction in taxes in our mini budget last fall. This is leadership which has never been seen before by any government in recent history.

I will not go into the filibustering in committees. I try to be as civil as I possibly can, but there is a tremendous amount of dysfunctionality in our committees. It happens in all the committees. It is appalling because members do not really understand that when they are in committee, they should lower the temperature, especially in a minority government and deal with recommendations that can then be brought forward to this House.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Yellowhead for his excellent presentation and for sharing his time with me.

One of the questions asked of me and many parliamentarians is: How much tax relief has the government provided since taking office? I can advise the House that the government believes that Canadians pay too much tax. One of the principal reasons I became involved in the political movement is because I think Canadians are overtaxed, which is why, since coming to office, we have taken action that provides over $41 billion in tax relief to Canadians in over just three years.

Going forward, the government is committed to providing additional tax relief for Canadians, for individuals to improve the rewards from their working, saving and investing. This commitment is supported by the tax back guarantee.

Today we heard complaints that we are spending far too much time worrying about the debt. Since taking office, we have reduced our mortgage on each Canadian by over $1,500. That is a significant amount of money in a very short period of time.

This tax back guarantee ensures that every time the debt is paid down, Canadians will realize that paying down of the debt by tax savings. That is the interest that Canadians pay, not the government. The government does not have any money. The only money the government has is the money it takes out of the pockets of Canadians, both corporate and personal. We intend to give that back as a direct result of paying down our mortgage.

It is fair to ask what we are doing to ensure that Canada's corporate tax system is competitive with other countries. We recently heard the bantering from the fourth party in the House that by having the lowest corporate tax we somehow are giving favours to people. We are giving favours. We are giving favours to the men and women who will have the jobs that corporate Canada creates. Governments do not create jobs. People and companies create jobs. Small and medium sized businesses create jobs.

We are building a tax environment that is internationally competitive and neutral with respect to business investment decisions. We want to encourage companies in the rest of the world to move their corporate headquarters and plants to Canada and create employment here because we will have a competitive tax base, not only for the companies but for the people who work for them. We believe this is crucial for creating the right conditions for business to grow and, more important, prosper.

This government is committed to an economic plan and it is called Advantage Canada. It will make Canada's overall tax rate on new business investment the lowest, as I previously stated, in the G-7.

Since 2006, this government has taken a number of actions to enhance business tax competitiveness, including: eliminating the federal capital tax in January 2006; eliminating the corporate surtax for all corporations this year; reducing the corporate statutory income tax rate to 18.5% by 2011 from the 21% in 2007; and providing temporary tax assistance for Canada's manufacturing section.

We are ahead of the curve. We just heard south of the border that its economy is in significant challenge. The President of the United States just announced reductions in tax so that he can stimulate consumer spending. We did that six weeks earlier. We are ahead of the curve. Maybe the people in the United States should call George Bush the Prime Minister of their country, which would be a good idea because we are ahead of the curve.

We are also aligning our capital cost allowance rates with useful life for manufacturing buildings and other assets. As a result of the government's actions and recent provincial initiatives, Canada's overall tax rate on new business investment will fall by 2011 to the second lowest in the G-7 from the third highest.

As an Ontarian, I respectfully suggest to the Premier and Government of Ontario, the province in which I live, to look at what we have done with regard to our corporate tax rate and I encourage Ontario to reduce its current corporate tax rate. I know the province made some progress and I encourage Mr. McGuinty and his government to continue to reduce taxes for corporations and to match the federal government's move in that area. That would go a long way toward ensuring that in Northumberland—Quinte West, and indeed in all of Ontario, we will be as competitive as any of our neighbours to the south.

Some of the key points in budget 2007 proposed significant benefits for low income Canadians, those who need tax reductions the most. That includes the $550 million annually through the working income tax benefit to make work more rewarding for 1.2 million low income individuals and families. This tax plan will remove 230,000 low income taxpayers from the tax rolls.

We introduced the new registered disability savings plan to improve the financial security and well-being of children with severe disabilities. I met with several constituents in my riding who are worried. They are getting older and they have children and young adults, and getting older adults, suffering from diseases, such as Down's syndrome, and they are worried about what will happen to their children when they are gone. They were most pleased with the 2007 budget when we introduced the registered disability savings plan that would help look after their children when they are no longer here.

Constituents are also very pleased with the tax measures that build on the tax relief from budget 2006 which removed 655,000 low income Canadians from the federal tax rolls. We also build on support already provided for low income Canadians by the federal government. Those include: $3.7 billion in support for low and modest income Canadians through the goods and services tax credit; $11.7 billion for families with children, including the universal child care benefit, the Canada child tax benefit and the national child benefit of which more than 40% goes to families with less than a $20,000 income; more than $7.4 billion for Canada's low income seniors through the guaranteed income supplement; $1.4 billion to provide basic social development programs for first nations in the areas of federal responsibility; and $3.3 billion to support youth housing and programs for legal aid, immigration and refugee settlement.

I would like to talk about the reduction of the GST and how it relates to people who do not pay any federal income tax and do not pay any income tax whatsoever. That is the one area that a government can influence the amount of tax Canadians pay.

In the House some time ago, in a debate discussing certain benefits, a member across the way made a remark when I mentioned that when people go to the grocery store they pay GST. He said that we do not pay GST on groceries. I made a challenge when I was on an open line radio show and asked folks, when they came out of the grocery store with their groceries, to look near the bottom of their receipt where it shows the amount paid. I told them that they would see that both GST and PST had been paid. I advised them to look at the difference in savings, the 2% that we would be saving people, and figure out how much that will save them in a year. In itself it may not be a huge amount but in addition to the other tax reductions that we have made for low and medium income families, especially for seniors, I think that adds to the significance of lowering taxes because every cent of tax we do not collect goes into our economy and helps create jobs.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to get to the issue of the GST because my colleague just talked about the reductions that we have made to the GST.

There is one thing I am not sure made it on the list. Right now when people buy a new home, the first section of it does not attract GST but after $350,000 the GST starts to be attracted and then after a certain level it is full GST. Since that has not changed due to inflation in 12 or 13 years, I recommended that we move that amount up. The cost of housing for young families and families moving into their second homes has increased considerably and the thresholds to help people get into their homes need to change. Let us face it. Those GST costs get passed directly to the consumer. The builders do not pay them in the end.

My question for my colleague is this. Do you think that moving the thresholds, when the GST is attracted to new housing, would be of assistance to the residents in your riding?

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I would just remind the hon. member to address the questions through the Chair and not directly to his colleague.

The hon. member for Northumberland--Quinte West.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a significant savings. I think it is around a $20,000 savings on the amount of money he just mentioned for a house.

We know that in Canada we continue to see an investment in new housing that is not occurring south of the border, and, as the member for Yellowhead and the members from the Bloc Québécois have mentioned, it is impacting the forest industry and the downturn in its housing market. Our GST reduction will not only save families money but will go a long way to help maintain some of the employment in our lumber industry.

However, it goes further than that. The argument we hear time and time again is that someone who is not making a huge purchase will not benefit by that. I will give an example of a personal nature from the people I meet who work in the constituency.

A lady came in the other day and said that she was one of those people who really thought that the GST did not mean very much. She heard me mention on the radio about looking at the grocery bill and she said that on her bill it was $1.24 this week. However, she went on to say that her refrigerator had gone on the fritz and that she had to buy a new one. She said that the GST savings was a little better than $1.24.

Quite frankly, it is not only for housing, but for those people who need to replace old appliances in their homes, it is a significant savings.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, what would be even more helpful for that woman would be a big rebate for getting an energy efficient appliance, but that is not my question.

My question is whether the member will support us in reinstating the millennium scholarships.

As members know, at the millennium year, when the rest of the world was building concrete structures to celebrate the millennium, Canada invested in its people and we put out this wonderful program, most of which goes to low income people. In my riding alone, there were at least 869 millennium bursaries totalling $2,607,000. We have had many students here in the parliamentary precinct. It has helped them so much.

Now that the fund has run out, would the member support us in getting it reinstated so we can carry on with that excellent program?

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I understand that it was a unanimous recommendation by the finance committee that the millennium program be continued, and I would support that.

I will tell members why this government supports education. It is more than just words. There has been a 40% increase in the federal budget toward post-secondary education, one of the largest, if not the largest, increase in post-secondary education in the history of this great dominion. More than that, the government believes it is necessary as we move toward a more knowledge based economy.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take part in the prebudget debate.

When I used to sit on the finance committee, I enjoyed travelling the country and going into different communities with my colleagues from Scarborough—Guildwood and Markham—Unionville and other distinguished members of our party. We would listen to Canadians, hear what they had to say and had an opportunity to put that into a report.

I had the chance last year, although I am not a member of the committee, to sit in on one session held in Halifax, in December, in my home community of Dartmouth—Halifax. I found that very useful too. It is important to hear from Canadians.

I remember being on the finance committee the day after the government announced the cuts back in the fall of 2006. At that point in time, pre-scheduled to meet with us that very day was the Canadian Museums Association. The guy had a presentation to give but he decided not to give it because it was irrelevant. He said that the association had been cut to bone and that it did not make sense. He asked why the government had done that. In our consultations that followed, we heard more and more from people who had their programs cut. Those cuts tell us a lot about the government and its ideological approach.

I want to focus my comments on areas for which I now have critic responsibility, which is the human resources area. Some of those cuts included, incredibly, literacy. I believe $17.7 million was cut from literacy programs. That is hard to believe. Literacy Nova Scotia puts programs together on bubble gum and toothpicks. It hardly has any money. What little money it had was cut out from underneath.

I received letters from Learners of Nova Scotia. One learner in the riding of Kings—Hants sent me his story. He never had a chance until he hooked in with a literacy group and now his program was in danger of shutting down. Literacy Nova Scotia had no money and could not continue after the cuts.

I met with the department and the minister at the time. I asked them what they were doing. They told me not to worry about it. Although they had taken $17 million away, they said that they had tens of millions of dollars that would go into literacy. I asked them where it would go and I was told they would let me know.

I then asked the literacy groups if they were receiving any money and they told me no. I asked the department where the money had gone. I was told it had gone to two groups, but the rest of the money would be coming. An awful lot of things are coming, and not particularly fast.

Recently we put a question on the order paper. We asked what the funding was for literacy last year. This is the response we received from the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development. It said, “These amounts of funding were provided to national, provincial and local organizations for literacy in the years as follows: 2005-2006, $33,359,000; 2006-2007, $16,800,000”.

This is half of what had been given the year before. Where is the money for the literacy groups? It is gone.

At the same time, $6.5 million was cut from the Canadian volunteerism initiative, the CVI. Its total budget was $7.5 million of which $6.5 million came from the federal government. It chopped it all. The group puts together the infrastructure for volunteering.

There is not one member in the House of Commons who did not get here because of volunteers. Most of us, on all sides of the House, have been volunteers in many capacities, whether helping the Heart and Stroke Foundation, or the Canadian Cancer Society or maybe simply providing care to loved ones at the end of their lives, or a child who has autism, or a child who has special needs, or an aunt or an uncle who needs help.

If we take the volunteerism out of Canada, we collapse. If we take away the support of voluntary caregivers, for example, and let the system provide the nursing care and the respite care, the full care, the system will be bankrupt virtually overnight. There is not an area in Canadian society where we cannot look to and say that it relies on volunteers.

I was president in Nova Scotia of the Heart and Stroke Foundation. I believe we had 16 paid staff, but thousands of unpaid staff who went knocking on doors on cold February days. Some are out there now, knocking on doors to raise money for the Heart and Stroke Foundation. Six and half million measly dollars was cut by the government. It is shameful. It is unacceptable.

We recently had an opportunity in my riding. The member for York Centre was touring Canada. He calls it, “It takes the country to fight poverty”. He came to my riding. The member for Halifax West and I co-hosted a meeting in a church basement, expecting some people to come out to talk about poverty. Three hundred people turned out to talk about poverty and to talk about our leader, the leader of the Liberal Party, who came out with his 30:50 plan to tackle poverty, to reduce the number of Canadians living below the poverty line by at least 30% and cut in half the number of children living in poverty over five years.

Poverty is not a vote getter. People who really live in poverty need help the most. The Metro Turning Point Shelter In my community has 60 beds that are full every night. Men come in between 7 o'clock and 11 o'clock in the evening. They sleep in one room in beds that were surplus from a prison, I believe. Eighty per cent of them either have mental health or addiction issues. Imagine what it is like to sleep in that room.

In the morning they get up at 7 o'clock and go to Hope Cottage, which is a multi-denominational church that sponsors a food bank. They go there for their food and they spend their days in the street.

Some of the younger ones may be involved with Phoenix Youth Programs, which deals with troubled young citizens who have issues with mental health and many of them with addictions. The coalition on homelessness does what it can to support the people who do this, the Canadian Mental Association. However, one thing about those folks is they do not generally vote because they spend their time trying to live.

The leader of a national party, who has the opportunity to form a government, has said that he will draw a line in the sand and cut poverty by 30% and child poverty by 50% over five years. People have talked about poverty for many years. Some things that have come along, like the child tax benefit, have made a difference. For a leader to stand up and say that he will stake his government on hitting these goals is pretty inspiring for these people.

I talked to a couple of people. One came to me afterwards and said that he had worked against me the first time I ran. He worked with the NDP. However, he now is working for the Liberal Party because the NDP are not doing this kind of thing in our community.

Somebody else asked to speak to the member for York Centre after the meeting. The person never believed the Liberals could take a big bite out of poverty, that we could have a national early learning and child care plan either, but the Liberal party gave it to the people and because of that, the person was with us. That is pretty powerful stuff.

The leader of the Liberal Party has come out with a plan which would, among other things, create the making work pay benefit to lower the welfare wall and improving the Canada child tax benefit to support working families by making the non-refundable child tax credit into a refundable credit, so even those who do not pay tax get it.

We often hear that the GST is great for people who are poor. The guys staying at Metro Turning Point do not go out to by an Escalade in the afternoon. They are not taking advantage of it. A lot of people simply cannot.

Another part of our plan is to help lift vulnerable seniors out of poverty by increasing the GIS, to honour the Kelowna accord, a plan for aboriginal Canadians, and a number of other things too such as fighting for access to things like affordable housing, child care, public transit.

My recommendation for the government would be to look at some of these things and see if it could not, for once, do something for the people who need help the most.

I want to talk about education. I know I talk about it a lot, but it is an important message. Canada is a nation that is highly educated, and we have done pretty well. We have done well in some ways more by accident than design. We are a big nation, huge in natural resources with a relatively small population, largely spread in central centres. We do not have the kinds of tornados that swept through the United States yesterday. We do not have the kinds of natural disasters we see across many continents. We have not had world wars fought on our soil. We have had things pretty good.

We now face new challenges in the world. We face the emerging economies of China, India and Brazil. They are not our enemies, but they will be competitors for human capital over the next number of years.

We also see huge investments being made by OECD nations, which know they have to increase their skill level. They know they have to increase every citizen's ability not only for their own sake, but so they can contribute to their national economies.

One of the last acts of the previous Liberal government in 2005 was to bring an economic update into the House. We wanted to focus on helping students. We wanted to help all students because we felt it was important, but particularly important was to help those most in need. That update included $550 million over five years to extend Canada access grants to 55,000 students from low income families. The grants would have been extended to all four years of an undergrad education.

The update also included $2.2 billion over five years to improve student financial assistance and make post-secondary education more accessible for low and middle income Canadians. There was money for internships and MBA scholarships. Money for workplace training to enhance participation by aboriginal Canadians was also included. There was money to specifically assist persons with disabilities to get post-secondary education.

Young Canadians, and they may be in their early twenties, have come to me because they are faced with a particular challenge. I am sure other members of Parliament see them as well. Many of these young kids graduated from grade 12 feeling like they belonged. However, other kids, who were part of their graduating class, were heading off to university or community college or getting a job. Those the kids are left at home because there is a black hole once they leave high school.

The kids who come to see me do not look for much. They are looking for some workplace training. They are looking for an opportunity to get a job to do what they can do to provide for themselves and society. Our Liberal government put $165 million in the update to help those kids have a better chance at an equitable life. When the government was defeated and the Conservatives came in, that all went out the window. It is a crying shame because we are not doing all we can to assist children to get the education they need.

Another program was the summer jobs program, which we remember from last year. The Conservative government knew it worked, but it had to put its own stamp on it. The government changed the program from the summer career placement program to the summer jobs program. It reduced the amount of money and changed the criteria.

Organizations across this nation, almost all of them not for profit, relied on the summer jobs program. Students thought this was crazy. There was a big fuss by a lot of members of Parliament on this side of the House. I remember one day last year, eight different Liberal members stood up in question period and asked a question about that summer jobs program. It clearly was broken, but the Conservative government said that things were fine.

We asked if the government was going to put more money into fixing the hole. The answer was no, things were just great. In the fall, the government slipped $45 million into the supplementary estimates to cover its tracks. I will give the present minister credit for going back to the old Liberal program. We will have to see how it unfolds over the next few months.

That clearly showed the government did not respect students or community organizations, made up of volunteers who help us run the country.

There are some good ideas out there. I do not have to give all the answers, but let me talk about a few recommendations on the post-secondary side.

My colleague from Yukon was 100% correct about the millennium scholarship foundation. I was pleased to hear the previous Conservative speaker say that he supported it.

The millennium scholarship foundation was set up in the late 1990s by the Liberal government, and it has been a success. There were some problems early on with respect to it. There were some clawbacks in some of the provinces. There were some issues with getting it organized. It now works very well. Every province and every territory work with the millennium scholarship foundation and want it renewed. The foundation provides about $350 million every year of almost exclusively needs based funding for students. That needs to be replenished. We cannot afford to lose $350 million of funding for students.

Almost everyone wants to see the millennium scholarship replenished, or some of those people who I think have an ideological aversion to the millennium scholarship want to replace it with a needs based granting system. We definitely need to do something.

The Canada student loans program needs to be redone and looked at in a whole new way. We need to open it up to more people. We need to expand its scope. We need to reduce the cost of borrowing so that it makes more sense for students. We need to reduce bankruptcy provisions for students along with it.

Those are my views. I encourage the government to have a look at that. We studied some of this when I was on the finance committee.

Julian Benedict, who heads up the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness, has put together a lot of work on this. This is not new. This is not something the government has to study to death. The solutions exist.

Invest in research and innovation. Build on the great progress of the Liberal government in the late 1990s and early in this century, when the economy was finally on track after that $41 billion annual deficit was turned into a surplus. We started to invest in research and innovation. I would admit that like poverty, it is not a big vote getter, but it may well be the single most important achievement of Canada in the last 10 years in becoming competitive.

Ten years ago we used to hear about the brain drain. In the Globe and Mail we would read about losing researchers to the United States and other parts of the world. It does not happen now. We are repatriating researchers to Canada because of those investments in CFI, CIHR, the granting councils and a whole host of research oriented areas. We are starting to lose that. And what did the government do? It fired Dr. Art Carty, one of the pre-eminent scientists in this country, who was leading the charge on a lot of this and had great respect in the research community. It is pretty scandalous.

Why do we not invest in research? Taking the indirect costs of research was something else from the economic update and we increased it to 40%. The Conservative government turned that over. Invest in the CIHR. The Canadian Institutes of Health Research came to the finance committee, 13 institutes that do unbelievable work. I know about the CIHR not because I am a doctor or because I am particularly scientifically gifted, but because I was involved in the national board of the Heart and Stroke Foundation when the CIHR came along. It changed research in Canada.

Organizations like the Heart and Stroke Foundation redid their governance. I know because I was part of it. I have the scars from that. We redid our governance so that we could pool money to take advantage of the CIHR which now in my view is being marginalized. We are losing another great researcher; Alan Bernstein has left his head position at the CIHR to go to New York. We need to do all of these things.

We should talk about the Atlantic accord. I am sure my colleague from Gander—Grand Falls will tell us. We stood in the House about a year ago when the budget was being read and realized the Conservatives were killing the Atlantic accord, the most important piece of economic development for the province of Nova Scotia and for Newfoundland and Labrador. The right hon. member for LaSalle—Émard signed that deal in 2004 guaranteeing Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia exclusive access to their offshore resources and all of a sudden it was being killed. What could be done?

We know what happened. First the then minister of foreign affairs who is now the minister of defence said, “Nobody is going to be kicked out of our caucus for voting on principle”. That was before he realized there was no one over there who had principles. Then they changed their minds. All Canadians want the Atlantic accord back.

There are a number of things the government could do to improve on the budget it is proposing to bring forward. We know that Tory times are hard times and we see coming down the pike the possibility of a recession. What is troubling is that the misery being inflicted on the poor people in Canada because of a right-wing ideology appears set to continue. Ask women's groups, minority groups which lost the court challenges program, literacy groups, hard-working public servants who are losing their jobs because they were doing their jobs. Ask students what they are going to do with an $80 tax credit, working families who find it tough to get child care. Tory times are tough times and we deserve better.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Garry Breitkreuz Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the member opposite. He concluded by ranting against right-wing ideology, intimating that somehow Canadians do not sympathize with this.

I would like to relate to the member the reaction I receive in my constituency to some of the things the government has done. There are some very popular measures. One of those is the pension income splitting and another is the $1,200 per child assistance to families.

I come from a riding that has the dubious distinction of having the highest proportion of seniors in Canada. One of the things that is very important to them is something else that we have been doing that enables the government to reduce taxes and give back to parents some of the money that it has taken from them. Tax reduction is something that we have absolutely emphasized is important to all Canadians.

When the member rants against those who have a right-wing ideology, I challenge him to go out and talk to the people of Canada about the specific measures that this government has implemented and what they mean to them. I think he will find out and he will agree that they actually support what we are doing.

One of the key things that I want to ask the member's opinion on is whether he agrees with our emphasis on paying down the debt. To me this is one of the more important things that we have done as Conservatives. That is something that helps everyone. If we do not pay down our debt, we will continue to have huge interest payments which do not allow us to have the tax reductions that we should have.

Tax reduction can happen when government spends less. When we have a huge debt hanging over our shoulders, we cannot put in place that tax reduction. Does he agree that paying down the debt should be a priority for us as a government?

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I agree that paying down the debt that was left over from the Conservatives is a priority. We did that when we were in government. We fixed the $41 billion mess that was left by Brian Mulroney and the Conservative Party.

In Nova Scotia the provincial Liberals inherited a $671 million debt in the same year. That was a provincial Conservative debt from John Buchanan.

Yes, I agree with the member that the Conservatives left a mess. I agree that it has to be paid off. His government took out the fiscal prudence that the member for LaSalle—Émard and the member for Wascana always put in so that we had something to pay down the debt with.

I would say that at a time when there is the possibility of a recession and difficult economic times, we need support for the manufacturing, forestry and other industries. I do not know that $10 billion is an appropriate amount. I think we need to have a discussion about that.

Not all Canadians benefit from lower taxes. The poorest of the poor who live on the street do not pay any tax. Those guys on the other side of the House think the GST helps everybody. They do not understand and they do not care that there are people who make no money whatsoever. We as a government and as a nation owe them something, unless we do not think that they are worthy of our help or they are below us somehow. That is not the case.

The Liberals believe in paying down debt. We did it. We believe in reducing taxes. We did it. We also believe in taking care of Canadians who need our help.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am sitting right beside my colleague and I guess we could have a conversation between us. However, for the record, I would like to say that the hon. member mentioned that he is not a doctor nor an economist. I think he should receive an honorary doctorate in economics for the speech he gave.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I accept.

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like the hon. member to comment on a couple of ideas.

We hear a lot from the party opposite that we have to be disciplined and take the long view. As a matter of fact, the hon. member who got up a few minutes ago said that if we do not pay down the debt at an accelerated pace, we will be hurting future generations.

I think it is a question of balance. We pay down the debt, but we do not slash and burn in the short term simply for ideological reasons.

The party opposite always talks about taking the long view. However, when we look at their policies they are all short term policies that are targeted for short term political purposes and goals. We still do not have a science and technology policy. This is something that we need to build in Canada for the long term.

We do not have a national water policy which is something that we need to protect our economic growth in the long term.

Literacy is very important, especially in a high tech economy. Literacy is very important for long term prosperity. The government slashed literacy. Then we also saw the largest spending budget in Canadian history.

Where is the long term view in the government's approach? Does the government care about the economy, or does it only care about politics?

Prebudget ConsultationsGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, that is a powerful question. I must agree with my colleague on those things.

One of the funniest things I saw recently was the Prime Minister speaking to his caucus before the House came back saying, “If things are going to get tough, do you want to trust the Liberals?” Mr. Speaker, I know you are impartial and cannot laugh when you hear that, but the millions of Canadians who are watching us now are saying, “Wait a second, the Conservatives left us a $41 billion annual deficit and a $500 billion debt. The Liberals fixed it up, invested in the priorities of Canadians and gave the Conservatives a $13 billion annual surplus. The Conservatives are the ones who cannot run an economy to save their lives. They give money away but not to the people who need it”.

That is a group of people over there who love power but hate government. Government can be a source of good things. We can reduce taxes. We can pay off debt. We can provide better services to Canadians. The Liberals can do it; the Conservatives cannot.

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1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member spoke about students quite a bit. He highlighted that there are two recommendations in the report we all agreed on, that we provide need and merit based support for students at post-secondary institutions and that the Canada Millennium Scholarship Foundation look for continued support.

However, I looked in the Liberal supplementary report and in its four pages there is absolutely no discussion of students or young people. There is no discussion about the four or five items that he did not like and which he highlighted at the end of his speech.

The member must be awfully disappointed in the finance people in the Liberal caucus who did not mention in this report any of the areas that he talked about in his speech today.

Why did the member's own caucus not deal with the issues that he brought up today?

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1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, Liberals across the country certainly are leading Liberals. The Leader of the Liberal Party, the member for Markham—Unionville and others have spoken across the country on the need for investments in post-secondary education.

We do not even need words. We need only look at actions. I could photocopy the economic update document and send it to my friend from Burlington. He may not have seen this because this was before he was elected. In the economic update that I talked about, there are billions of dollars in direct investments for students. The Liberal Party knows and understands the needs of students in Canada. We stand with them on those needs.

I can say that when we go to the people in the next election, we will be talking about education, post-secondary education, universities, community colleges, skills upgrading, training, apprenticeship and lifelong learning, because those are the things that the Liberals stand for. Those are the things that the Liberals stood for. Those are the things the Liberals did something about when we fixed up the Conservative mess in this nation. It is what we are going to do when we fix up the mess when we take over again.

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1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Garry Breitkreuz Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have to put a correction on the record. When the hon. member says that debt reduction does not help everyone, especially poor people, he is dead wrong. When taxes are reduced, and that can only be done if the amount of money that government spends is reduced, it helps everyone. Every product that we buy has taxes built into it. It is not just the GST that is tacked on to it. Businesses are taxed, everybody is taxed and that is built into the product that is being sold. Therefore, it is incorrect to say that.

I have a quick question for the member. He is from a rural--

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1:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I am afraid I will not be able to allow the member to finish his question because there are only about 20 seconds left for the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour to respond to the comment.

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1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I want to correct the correction. I did not say that debt reduction does not help all Canadians. I said tax reductions do not help all Canadians. Not all Canadians actually pay taxes.

Tax reduction is good, but there are other ways to help people than reducing taxes. Direct subsidies to people who need help could be increased. Investments could be made in homelessness, literacy, education and all the things the Conservatives do not believe in.

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1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured today to share my time with the member for Winnipeg South.

Today it is my great honour to speak about what our government is doing regarding the budget consultations. Right now in Canada we are among the strongest G-7 economies and the only G-7 member with both an ongoing budget surplus and a falling debt burden. That is remarkable.

Canada is also an emerging energy superpower. We are among the world leaders in clean hydroelectric power and natural gas production. We have one of the strongest and largest global oil reserves.

Nevertheless, we are also taking aggressive action to manage economic uncertainty. We are making broad long term tax reductions which impact on the Canadian public throughout our nation. We are reducing record amounts of debt, and we are spending responsibly and efficiently.

Canada cannot be immune from uncertainty in the U.S. nor immune from the global economy as a whole. Canada is working from a position of strength. Our economic fundamentals are solid.

We are experiencing the second longest period of economic expansion in our history. Inflation is remaining low and stable. We have the best job market in a generation. Our unemployment rate is the lowest in 33 years. Canada is one of the few countries with a financially sustainable public pension system and that benefits many of our residents and our seniors.

While we have seen job gains in other well paying sectors, manufacturing job losses are a real concern to our government. That is why we have introduced a billion dollar community development trust to help workers and communities facing major downturns.

That is why we have put $8 billion in tax relief for manufacturers to help create the right economic climate for job creation.

We believe that paying down our national debt is important for Canadians. It is important for our economy. It is also important for the future generations of Canadians who should not be burdened with the debt we have accumulated.

In less than two years, our government has reduced the federal debt by nearly $37 billion including $10 billion in this fiscal year and at least $3 billion each year after that. This means the federal debt burden on every Canadian man, woman and child is lowered by about $1,570 or about $1.5 billion a month. That brings the balance of our federal debt to $467.3 billion from its peak of $562.9 billion in 1996-97. That is a reduction of over $95 billion. That is remarkable.

In 2006-07 the government spent 14.4¢ of every revenue dollar on interest on the public debt, down from the peak of 37.6¢ in 1990-91. We intend to continue along this track. At this rate the federal debt will fall below 25% of our GDP by 2011-12, three years ahead of the original target date, marking the lowest debt burden since the early 1980s.

This is important to our small businesses. Yesterday I met with the Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses which is very supportive of the tax cuts that the government has made. The Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses has over 100,000 members throughout our nation. In one of its surveys of its members it asked this question: In what proportion should future federal surpluses be applied? The responses were as follows: 48% said pay down the federal debt; 36% said reduce taxes; and 16% said increase program spending.

As we can see, small businesses across our nation feel that the main priority is to pay down our debt and reduce taxes. That is what we have done and that is what we will continue to do in order to support all Canadians.

With the $60 billion of cuts announced in our fall economic statement, including another one percentage point reduction in the GST, the total actions taken by the government to date are approaching $200 billion in tax cuts over this year and the next five years.

Close to 75% of the tax relief offered by the government benefits individual Canadians and their families. That is how it impacts on our population today: a reduction in the lowest personal rate, from 15.5% to 15%; an increase in the basic personal amount, to $9,600 for 2008 and to $10,100 for 2009; a working income tax benefit was put in place to help low-income Canadians over the welfare wall; a registered disability savings plan was put in place to assist parents of persons with disabilities with the tools to provide financial security for their loved ones when they can no longer care for them; and also a child tax credit providing up to $300 of tax relief for each child under 18 years of age.

For the first time ever, we are providing pension income splitting for all seniors and pensioners. We also eliminated the capital gains taxation on gifts of listed securities to private foundations.

By reducing the GST by another percentage point, our government has fulfilled a key campaign commitment and kept its word to Canadians, to our voters. Reducing the GST from 6% to 5% builds on the initial GST cut introduced in budget 2006. For consumers, the total savings from the two percentage point reduction will amount to approximately $12 billion.

In another survey by the Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses, members were asked to rate the priority of reduction of taxes by the federal government. Here, 39.1% placed a high priority on reducing the GST and 39.9% placed a medium priority on reducing the GST. So we can see, overall, it was a very high priority for the sample. We are listening to small business.

Today, Canadians are already benefiting from one new tax cut, thanks to the Conservative government's second GST cut in as many years.

In the weeks ahead, Canadian families can look forward to even more tax relief as the Conservative government's retroactive income tax reductions also take effect. Our Prime Minister has cut income taxes retroactively. As a result, Canadians families will have a smaller tax bill for the 2007 year. I know all of us are looking forward to that. Effective January 1, 2007, the lowest personal income tax rate will be reduced to 15% from 15.5%.

In addition, the amount that all Canadians can earn without paying federal income tax will be increased to $9,600 for 2007 and 2008, and to $10,100 for 2009, as I said before.

Together, these two measures will reduce personal income taxes for 2007 by almost $225 for a single worker earning $40,000. A two-income family that earns $80,000 will save more than $400 on their 2007 tax bill. That is significant.

Thanks to the leadership of our Prime Minister, Canadian families will have more money refunded for last year, more money this year, and more money for the years to come. That is money into the pockets of everyday Canadians, where it counts.

While the Leader of the Opposition spends his time musing about the kinds of higher taxes he wants to impose, our Prime Minister continues to show real leadership by lowering taxes and allowing hard-working Canadian families to keep more of what they earn.

Something that I am personally very excited about is the taxpayer bill of rights that our government introduced last year. It was very pleasing to stand with the minister and be there when she announced this taxpayer bill of rights. This is a historical document that will benefit all Canadians, including those in my riding of Kildonan—St. Paul.

We believe that our tax collection system can be more accountable and more user friendly for the public. The public need not be fearful of dealing with the Canada Revenue Agency to meet its tax obligations.

There are 15 points. I know I am running out of time and cannot go over all 15 points. However, the taxpayer bill of rights was a groundbreaking initiative that our government put forward.

In closing, these significant steps will help Canada remain well positioned to face any volatile environment. The opposition consistently criticized and opposed these vital measures, offering nothing as an alternative but costly band-aid solutions with no long term vision, threatening to return Canada to a deficit. Approaching budget 2008, we will continue to act in a stable and responsible manner.

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1:25 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened attentively to my colleague's comments on the government's financial pathway. She talked about a bill of rights for taxpayers. I recently visited a housing project in my riding and met with some people who are doing their best with very little. It is not far from here, Mr. Speaker, and if you have the time I would love to take you there. The people in that housing project are deeply concerned about the government's priorities.

In particular, the six women I talked to all have families. Some of them are living in one bedroom apartments, five or six people living together as a family. They are paying 90% of their income on rent. This government has done absolutely nothing for them. They cannot eat the taxpayer bill of rights. It will not pay the rent and what is abhorrent is that most of the people I was talking to were actually newcomers. Two of them were from Afghanistan. They are living in abhorrent conditions here in Canada.

Their question to me, that I will pose to the member is: what is the government doing for them?

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1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, clearly, the $100 that is given to families across Canada is a really concrete benefit to all families, no matter what the income level is. It really helps support the food on the table, the child care, the kinds of things that are needed on an every day basis.

Our government now has put more money than ever before into homelessness, with transfer payments to the provinces on the issue of affordable housing. I know in Winnipeg I have made no less than four announcements for people who are in low income housing. I know the people with whom I talked to there were appreciative of the kind of finances that the government had put into affordable housing in my province of Manitoba.

I think that our government has placed a priority on families.

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1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, one of the items that I have been pushing for a long time is an increase in the northern residence tax deduction. People in the north face higher expenses so there is a tax deduction for them. It has not changed in some time.

As the critic for the north, I have heard that people from the Northwest Territories and Nunavut would like that as well. I wonder if the member would support me in getting some increase to the tax deduction.

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1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, the north is a very special place. I have flown up to the north on several occasions and have been just awe struck by the potential that is there and the development that is going on in our Canadian north.

Having said that, I know there are challenges in terms of increased expenses for basic things like housing, food and even transportation. The good thing about the House of Commons is that we can sit on committee and we can all put forth our suggestions and work together to ensure that these inadequacies that we do find in our population can be addressed. I would certainly stand with the member in this area.

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1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Speaker, we all know that the NDP has never seen a surplus that it would not love to spend. The Liberals have never seen a surplus that they have not spent. The member commented on a taxpayers bill of rights. With a taxpayers bill of rights, if we had that back in the days of former Prime Minister Trudeau, in her opinion, would we maybe not have a deficit today? Could the member comment on that?