Debates of April 17th, 2008

Agriculture and Agri-Food

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Agriculture is definitely caught up in his own illusions. Remember the Prime Minister promised during the election that the Conservatives would scrap the CAIS program, that hateful program that was in place, that did put a lot of money out there. Yes, a lot of changes had to be made. In fact most of the changes that the Conservatives made were in the works when we were in government.

The fact of the matter is that changing the name of CAIS to agri-stability is not scrapping the program. In fact that program the Conservatives so hated that they have left in place and changed the name, yes, is the foundation of their agricultural policy. We are saying they need to go far beyond that. I outlined quite a number of those areas.

All we are asking in moving concurrence in the standing committee report is to act on some of the recommendations that are in that report, act on them all. As I said, we need to go beyond that. We need to look at the cap. Are they willing to suspend that for a couple of years? Is the minister willing to look at the reference margin and for those who had circovirus, for instance, in the hog industry, is he willing to factor that in so that at least those producers have a reference margin that will in fact work?

The minister talked about Gencor. I spoke with the president of Gencor on Sunday. The president told me very clearly that it is not what the minister said that drove them out of business. It is not the fact that markets opened up in the United States. It is the fact that Canada's regulatory regime is too costly and that the Americans did not come onside as they were supposed to do, in terms of specified risk of materials and therefore, Canada's costs are that much higher.

The minister talked about meeting with the producers. I have been at some of the meetings he has attended. I have heard about some of the meetings he has attended. It is interesting. I guess it is just the Conservative Party's way. The Conservatives' meetings are usually meetings of exclusion, not inclusion. They usually exclude people. Only certain organizations are allowed into those meetings. Probably they have been given notes from the Prime Minister's Office before they go. We have heard this line before.

He talked about all the things he is doing. He said farmers are pleased. We heard that line before. In fact the last time they said it in December, the president of the pork council appeared before committee and said that the December 19 meeting was a cruel joke. That does not tell me it is pleased.

The bottom line, is the minister willing to deal with the reference margin for the circovirus situation and is he willing to look--

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

The hon. Minister of Agriculture.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am amazed that the member for Malpeque said that our meetings are those of exclusion, but he was there. We have higher standards than that. I am not sure how he snuck in. I guess anything is possible in Wayne's world.

We did not see a lot of help from the members opposite when we were talking about scrapping CAIS. We have had instances where we have been happy to see them sit on their hands so that we can stand up for agricultural producers and I know they will continue to do that. It is great that they, rather than producers, are taking it on the chin and I love to see that.

The member opposite talked about our scrapping CAIS. Yes, we campaigned on that and we gained a lot of credibility because we wanted to get rid of it. It was seen as a situation where the producers could never see the light at the end of the tunnel. We have done that. We have adjusted reference margins. The member opposite knows that. This is a brand new program. It is a new day. We are starting over. We have made changes to negative margins so that we can flow cash to people who are in trouble. We have adjusted inventory values as they go along on a case by case basis.

I am more than happy to deliver what the sector needs, within reasonable parameters. We cannot open the floodgates because then we start looking at countervailable situations, and industry does not want that.

As I said before, producers do not want to farm the mailbox. They want a decent return from the marketplace. They do not want to see government programs that restrict their ability to read market signals.

We have taken all that into consideration. We have changed agri-stability, the old CAIS reference margin situation. We have a top tier that the government kicked off with $600 million. We will continue to top that up with an extra $100 million over the life of the program. If there are changes that need to be made, we have a deal with the provinces that we will look at, adjust and re-evaluate as the program moves along to make sure that it does what we said it was going to do.

We have to stay within cost-cutting parameters. This is a cost shared jurisdiction with the provinces, 60% federal, 40% provincial. The only change to that is on the agri-recovery side, on the disaster component. As the disaster grows, so does the federal component of money and that is the right thing to do. We are not going to shortchange anyone because it ends up at the farm gate with less returns. We have made those changes.

The member opposite said he would like to change the caps. Why did he sit on them in CAIS for all those years when that was one of the problems? We are happy to change the caps. We have actually expanded those. We are happy to see them double. That is the message I am taking to the provinces when I meet them at the end of May in our next face to face meeting.

We have gone back into programs that have been around. We have gone into new programs. We are not scared to take a step back and ask if there is a better way to do this.

Many times what is designed here in the Ottawa bubble does not quite hit the target out there. That is one of the things that drove me into this place. It was that disconnect between what is happening in the real world and what happens here.

The Liberals want to maintain this idea of a bubble here in Ottawa, that bureaucrats can design a program. We will never do that. We will use the bureaucrats to facilitate a farmer directed initiative and make it work for them.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to have heard the minister today. I wish he had deigned to show up in the House when the Bloc Québécois called for and got an emergency debate on this subject on February 13.

Regardless, what most displeases us about his speech is his carefree attitude. The minister must be just about ready for retirement, because to hear him tell it, everything is going well and producers are happy. Yesterday, he met with 250 happy producers. I should let him know that agricultural producers are polite people. Obviously, they are going to be polite when meeting with the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food. That does not mean they do not have any demands.

He may have met with producers yesterday and shared a good meal with them, and found them to be happy, but I have a hard time understanding his attitude. I would like him to compare that meeting to his meeting with the Canadian Federation of Agriculture not so very long ago. At that meeting, the minister showed up, gave his speech, refused to answer any questions, and left.

In his speech, he said that people should be very careful from now on and that he did not want to hear another word from all of the groups opposed to his policy to dismantle the Canadian Wheat Board. He only wanted to hear from what were, in his eyes, the right groups. Maybe those are the ones he was with yesterday.

If he were to go looking for problems, there certainly are problems to be found. All he has to do is open his eyes and ears. Even though the producers were polite and let him think that everything is going well, there are still problems, especially in the specified risk materials file.

In his speech just now, the minister told us that he was seeking to harmonize our regulations with the American ones. I want him to know that nothing has been resolved in the SRM file, nothing whatsoever. The Fédération des producteurs de bovins du Québec is asking for $50 million over two years, which is not much, to help it adjust to this new policy.

Nobody is saying that the government should not pay attention to harmlessness or security when it comes to SRMs. However, apparently we need harmonization with the United States. What is the minister's position on this issue? What is he doing? What is going on? Instead of meeting only with happy people, maybe he should meet with his American counterparts and do something to resolve this issue once and for all.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will start with the last question.

I have met with my American counterparts. I have had great face to face meetings with the new secretary of agriculture, Ed Schafer. I have met with Collin Peterson, the chair of the Congress committee on agriculture. We have talked about country of origin labelling. The results if they implement it, as they are, it could be the beneficiary for us of a NAFTA panel, and we are not afraid of doing that.

Free trade is only as good as the rules and the enforcement mechanisms. We will stand up for Canadian producers at whatever level we need to that. The hon. member can be assured of this.

He talked about the meeting of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture. I can assure him that I had told its representatives, in the weeks leading up to the meeting, that I was triple booked on that day. I had told them I could not make it to their meeting, but I would try to get to other parts of their function. At the last minute, we were able to rejig my schedule and get over there. We told them a week in advance that I would not have time to take questions. They knew what was going on. It was not a hit and run, they knew upfront. That is the record of which I am proud.

I will meet farmers anytime, anywhere and talk to them face to face, and I will continue to do that, including farmers in Quebec, who do not feel they are served well by the Bloc.

The member opposite talked about the specific risk materials. The Canadian Cattlemen's Association is asking for another $50 million. It has been asking for that four or five years now, right back to the Liberal government.

Bloc members have been here, but I have never seen them vote for anything like that. They generally do not seem to support producers when it comes to our throne speeches, or our budgets. They actually stand up and vote, unlike the Liberals, but they vote against any of those projects that would see things move ahead for agriculture producers, including their own in Quebec.

The record is there. The member is shaking his head, but the record is there and producers are starting to notice that and call up—

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

I am sorry to bring this exchange to an end, but we need to resume debate.

The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I hope that no one will question the relevance of this debate today, despite the fact, as I mentioned earlier when I asked a question, that the Bloc Québécois was able to get an emergency debate on the crisis in the hog and beef sectors not too long ago on February 13.

Nevertheless, I am pleased that the member for Malpeque has reopened this very important debate, because of the government's response to the unanimous report tabled by the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

The committee's study was not exhaustive—that would perhaps be going too far—but it was still quite detailed on the crisis in the livestock sector. If only the responses had been completely satisfactory. Earlier, we heard the minister make an optimistic speech about how everyone is happy and all is well. But if that were the case, we would not be here today still talking about the situation. The reason is simple; we are talking about it because the government's responses to the report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food are largely unsatisfactory.

We know that this crisis is due in large part to the increase in the value of the Canadian dollar. The soaring prices of animal feed and the decline in the international hog market have also led to huge losses for producers.

A few moments ago, I spoke about the costs of conforming to specified risk material regulations for beef producers. To this day, I do not understand how the Canadian government came up with such regulations, knowing full well that the Americans would not abide by them. The government has almost deliberately created unfair competition against our producers.

Yet these producers are by no means refusing to comply with the regulations. No one wants a repeat of the mad cow crisis. They are well aware that specified risk materials must be disposed of. The regulations are here to stay.

However, the Fédération des producteurs de bovins du Québec asked for $50 million in aid over two years. Just now, the minister trivialized the situation and rejected this request out of hand. He gave the excuse that producers have been requesting such assistance for four or five years and that the Bloc Québécois has done nothing. The Bloc Québécois is rising in this House, we are asking for and demanding this aid because we support our farmers. We stand up for Quebeckers, as we have always done so well, and often we get results. In this case, the government is asleep at the wheel. Nothing has been done about specified risk materials.

The producers are asking for $50 million over two years. The minister finds that somewhat ridiculous because producers have been making this request for four or five years. If it is so ridiculous, if it is not so serious or so complicated as all that, then I do not understand why the money is not already in the federation's coffers. This money would be used for a very simple purpose: to allow beef producers to conform to these regulations.

At present, producers must pay for the removal of specified risk materials from carcasses, and for their collection and burial. They are not sure what to do with the materials. We could invest in the biodiesel plants in Quebec so these materials could be used for biofuel. This waste would no longer be buried and they would know what to do with it. This might be worth investing in.

I did not know that specified risk materials would become a symbol of Canadian unity. The minister reaffirmed Canada's sovereignty when he stated that we are different from the United States. Big deal. SRMs are not going to become a symbol of Canadian sovereignty.

Naturally, standards must be harmonized to the greatest extent possible. If the Americans are not interest, Canada, even if it continues to regulate this area, should help our producers and processors so that they are not penalized by these regulations. For their part, American producers do not have to worry about disposing of specified risk materials as do our producers.

So now, back to pork producers, since they were the main reason we asked for an emergency debate in February. We heard a lot of testimony in committee, but also in our offices, because there had been a campaign.

I simply want to point out that this industry is very important in Quebec. Total agricultural revenue is $6.198 billion dollars. Of this, 13.6%, or $844.9 million, is from pork production.

That is the economic impact of the pork industry in Quebec. It accounts for 28,200 jobs and $1.3 billion in value added. This industry is present in several different regions of Quebec. There are perhaps 400 pork producers in my riding. And the president of the Fédération des producteurs de porcs du Québec, Jean-Guy Vincent, lives in my riding.

It is the leading bio-food export product in Quebec and ranks twelfth among products exported from Quebec. Pork production provides a trade surplus of $890.5 million, thus producing a positive agri-food trade balance of $289.2 million, a significant amount. Pork production also generates over $225 million in government revenue, which is one of reasons that the pork industry is important economically. And it shows why, even today, we need to talk about the crisis in this sector.

I mentioned the emergency debate that was held here in February. The reasons we asked for that debate are just as relevant today, because of the unsatisfactory responses the government has given to the committee's recommendations. We asked for the emergency debate because the livestock industry was going through a crisis caused by the rise in the value of the dollar and the costs of inputs, combined with a major drop in meat prices in the case of pork and additional costs to manage and dispose of specified risk materials in the case of beef producers. This is still true today.

Pork producers want an immediate program to guarantee loans—they got something that I mentioned earlier, but it is not exactly what they wanted—or take over the interest currently assumed by producers, while beef producers want emergency measures such as a $50 million assistance program over two years, as I just explained.

There were several reasons why this emergency debate was needed, including the silence of the Prime Minister and the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food in the face of all the letters sent to them by producers, in addition to the first report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. Entitled “Study on the Collapse of the Beef and Pork Sector Revenues”, the unanimous report recommended transitional measures to alleviate the crisis as well as more long-term measures to improve the competitiveness of the industry.

When I said earlier that some good had come from the emergency debate, I was referring to the fact that, after the debate, the minister contacted the opposition critics to tell us that he wanted to move ahead on Bill C-44. All the parties agreed to fast-track the bill so that producers would have some cash flow.

Is has to be said that this is not exactly what producers wanted. It is also important to understand that this is still a debt. Agricultural producers will get loans, but they are still going into debt. Clearly, this is not a magic bullet, but in the short term, we could not disagree with such a measure.

Another program also just came into effect a few days ago, on April 14 I believe, with a view to ensuring that those producers who wanted to get out of the business could receive compensation for shutting down. Of course, the Bloc Québécois would prefer not to see our farms close down, one after the other. We will not solve the problem by simply paying them to shut down.

We need an agricultural sector that is strong, one that contributes to the Quebec and Canadian economy, instead of simply closing down our farms and ultimately being forced to import the products we need, which, incidentally, is already all too often the case. I would like people to become more aware of the importance of buying products from Quebec and Canada.

It is still a problem, despite Bill C-44 and despite the measures to allow farmers to get out. The government's responses are especially unsatisfactory over the long term. In that respect, the committee made some very specific recommendations concerning long-term measures. I will come back to this a little later.

I would like to quote from a letter that was distributed to all hon. members by the Fédération des producteurs de porcs du Québec, expressing just how serious the situation has become:

Given the seriousness of the crisis currently facing the pork industry, the assistance announced on December 19, 2007, the action plan to support Canada's livestock sector, is woefully inadequate.

Bearing in mind these concerns and others, to the effect that aid for producers must come through existing programs, the requests made by the Fédération des producteurs de porcs du Québec are, for the most part, being made within the framework of existing programs. The federation is asking for improvements and changes in the business risk management programs. They want the $1.5 million ceiling in the AgriStability and AgriInvest programs and the $3 million ceiling in the AgriInvest Kickstart program to be raised.

The federation also asked that the reference margins to provide appropriate support to producers be adjusted in light of the unique nature of the crisis and the persistently poor market conditions. It asked that the Canadian product labelling rules, designed to ensure that consumers can clearly identify where products come from, be tightened up.

Something was handed out in committee today. Was it the hon. member for Malpeque who brought that? I think he is in the middle of reading, but today in committee someone handed out pork loins. We looked at all the labels from all the angles and still wondered where that pork really came from. It is hard for the consumer to know, let alone those of us who are truly in the process of studying Canadian products in committee. It is even more difficult for the consumer to know whether he or she is buying pork loin from Canada, the United States or elsewhere, since that is not very clear on the label. It was rather difficult to know where the pork came from. The minister said that he is in the process of preparing a policy. I hope that the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food is not in the process of working for nothing and that our recommendations will be heard by the minister, because he says he is doing his share of the work. We cannot spend all this time and energy for nothing. Either way, I think the work of the committee is very important and that the minister should listen to its recommendations.

Creating a new fiscal envelope to support shared cost programs would allow for regional flexibility in the next generation of agricultural policies, the famous Flexi-Farm policies, which do not exist because there is AgriInvest, AgriStability and so on. In the end, the government did not think of introducing flexible measures, which we called for after the committee crossed Canada. Producers were unanimous about the need for such measures and made a point of telling us that it was important to put flexible measures and programs in place instead of very rigid national programs applying from coast to coast. When the provinces already had similar sorts of programs, they could no longer adapt or do anything. They were trapped. They could either get on board and duplicate federal initiatives or do nothing and not get any money.

I want to remind the government that all agricultural producers pay taxes. Every province has programs that are more or less effective, more or less good. Whenever a federal program is set up, it should be flexible. I am talking in particular about programs for pork producers. However, in the case of grain producers, the lack of flexibility is even more blatant, because they never receive CAIS payments. For the past 10 years, they have been in serious trouble, and they are the farmers who have suffered the most. Fortunately for them, prices have begun to rise recently, but they are calling for a program that could be called Flexi-Farm. The government can put that in its pipe and smoke it.

The letter ends as follows:

The advance payments program which has just been improved to include stock production, should not use the business risk management program as a collateral since that forces producers to pay back advances when they receive a payment.

This letter gave a good summary of pork producers' demands. I have also spoken at length about beef producers' demands, to make the point that even though some measures have been announced, the crisis is not over. Despite the cheery speech the minister gave earlier, the crisis in the livestock industry has not been solved.

That is why I congratulate the hon. member for Malpeque for bringing this issue back to the House today so that we can get the machinery working again and make not only the government but also the general public see that this problem has not been resolved.

The problem is that the programs I spoke about earlier do not work. We have been trying for a long time to figure out where to place the blame for the CAIS program. The Liberals and the Conservatives established it; we know that. But everyone agrees that it does not work.

Coming to power and simply changing the name of the program will not solve the problem. Blaming the former government will not solve the problem either. The minister must realize that changing the program's name did nothing to increase the producers' access to it.

They invest and say that there is $600 million available. Show me agricultural producers that have succeeded in getting any money. When they do manage to get advance payments, or some other kind of payment, there will be something else they have to fork out money for. It is quite ironic to say that money has been invested, but it is basically being put into one pocket and taken out of the other. That is often what governments do, and it is unfortunate.

The Conservative government made grand announcements, but the money is not getting to those who need it. AgriInvest, AgriStability and the advance payments program are simply CAIS programs under other names. On one hand, the government is putting money into a program, but they get it back through a different one. They have made some grand announcements, but the fact remains that farmers are not recouping anything. At the end of the day, the reality is that the government is paying itself.

We must always be cautious about these grand announcements and pay attention to the amounts that are announced. Unfortunately, they are often announced two to six times, but they should not be added up. Canadians would think there was an investment of billions and billions of dollars, when in reality, it is always the same $600 million program. Earlier, we heard some comments that gave me the impression that the problems in the agricultural sector were over, that there was no longer anything to be done or anything to be demanded, and that the producers were happy. The minister was patting himself on the back about everything that had been done.

We must give credit where credit is due. Some measures have been well received. That does not mean that the government should stop there and no longer make any effort. On the contrary, it must continue to find long-term measures to ensure that Quebec and Canadian producers remain active on the national and international markets. We are talking about exporters.

Not too long ago we had a clear advantage. The Canadian dollar was lower and productivity was higher than in the United States. When everything aligns so that our producers can, with all the necessary work, perform well nationally and internationally, things go well. But no matter what they want or how competent they are, there are times when the economy causes producers to face stiffer and more effective competition than before. I am referring to the United States, of course. The Americans have improved their productivity, and in some cases, the quality of their products. However, it is especially the rising Canadian dollar that is hurting us.

When the government simply watches what is going on and acknowledges that this is how it is and that we must wait, that is clearly not enough to get this entire industry back on track. There are two choices: the government can abandon the industry or support it. The Bloc Québécois would obviously choose to support it.

I was talking about the long-term measures people have been asking for. That is why I would like the government to take a more serious look at the committee's report. The report did a very good job of explaining long-term measures, especially in recommendations 3 and 4. The government's response to these recommendations did not satisfy the opposition parties, nor did it satisfy agricultural producers, who are not as happy as the minister would have us believe.

This is not about being happy or unhappy; this is about survival. In the livestock sector, this is about survival. If we do not come up with long-term measures and implement them right away—it should have been done the day before yesterday—that means we will no longer be supporting our agricultural producers.

Without support, we will lose our livestock industry.

Slaughterhouses are closing. One closed in Ontario and another in Quebec. The only one that is still open is the Levinoff-Colbex abattoir. People have been asking the federal government for help with this for years, but the government has not given them a penny. The government has to wake up and invest in our slaughterhouses so that this part of the production process happens here at home.

The government says it wants Canadian products, but soon, our products will not even be slaughtered here at home. How will we be able to talk about Canadian products when slaughtering and processing no longer happen here at home? We have to take a close look at this issue too.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Malpeque and others who have precipitated in this debate because it is an urgent crisis.

Since we had the emergency debate, a whole bunch of factors have expanded an already terrible crisis. In Parliament we do many things that, in the long term, will help people but in a time when there is a current crisis and emergency, where families are losing their homes and farms, we really need to act, which is why this is so important.

Since we had the emergency debate on the pork and livestock producers, does the member think the world food crisis has added to this huge problem? I mentioned earlier this week the fact that rice has gone up three times and people will be starving in the Burma refugee camps in Thailand if we cannot come up with more money from Canada.

Does the member believe that the rising price for fertilizers, the ethanol demand, the increase in the demand and price for other foods, the droughts in certain parts of the world and commodity speculation, that the crises have happened since our emergency debate and that it has exacerbated this problem for pork producers?

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question. Clearly, this crisis is dealing us a hard blow at this time, although it is not being felt as drastically in Canada and Quebec as it is in many other countries, where it is even causing riots. Although food is available, people literally no longer have the means to buy it. Obviously, if we are not careful, we too could suffer the consequences.

As the hon. member so aptly said, we must be careful, because everything is happening at a level that eludes us somewhat. Indeed, we are at the point where there is speculation in foodstuffs. We must also bear in mind that in emerging countries, such as China and India, there are more and more middle class people eating more and more food. When those people want rice, it must be available for them. Other countries, such as Argentina, have decided to impose export taxes. Thus, they can no longer export, even if it would be more lucrative to export food than to keep it in the country. Some countries have realized, however, that doing this leads to food shortages at home.

So, clearly, this crisis will affect our producers, from both sides. Pork producers and livestock producers in general have been seriously hurt by rising input costs. And that is only the tip of the iceberg.

If the G-8 countries, which include Canada, do not do something about the situation, there will be problems. A meeting of the Francophonie is being held soon here in Canada, if I am not mistaken, and those countries should add the food crisis to their agenda. This is of the utmost importance.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague on his presentation. This member is very passionate and serious about the situation faced by our farmers. However, I think that he has spent too much time with the member for Malpeque because he is starting to sound like him. He speaks a lot, he makes a lot of noise but, in the end, he says nothing. I think he spends too much time with that member.

I find his comments somewhat confusing. I will try to explain. The reason why I am confused is because he makes many suggestions about how to deal with the challenges faced by farmers but he does nothing. He is a Bloc member and as such he can make a lot of noise but cannot take action. In the past 18 years, the Bloc has done nothing, not one thing, here in Ottawa.

Quebec farmers have told my Quebec colleagues that this member, like the other Bloc members, has a great deal to say but cannot do anything about the challenges. Farmers have told us that this government consults them and then takes appropriate action. That is what must be done.

I would like to ask my colleague if he is embarrassed, as a Bloc member, about being unable to help his fellow citizens.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would be embarrassed to make such comments. What he said is anti-democratic.

Since 1993, Quebeckers have been voting for the Bloc Québécois because Quebec needs Bloc Québécois MPs to represent them; otherwise we would no longer be here. That is democracy. The public chooses to vote for MPs to defend the interests of Quebec and that is what we are doing. I was elected in 2004. The Bloc has been here since 1990 and became the official opposition in 1993. Since that time, it has formed the official opposition twice in this Parliament.

This question is absolutely ridiculous. The hon. member should be ashamed to stand up and play cheap politics, instead of talking about the livestock crisis. Does he want examples of how effective the Bloc has been in taking action? I do not think he was here, but in 2005, on November 22, from this very seat, I had a motion adopted unanimously to protect the supply management system in its entirety. That means that his party, which formed the official opposition at the time, voted in favour of what the Bloc Québécois had presented.

If he checks with Steve Verheul, Canada's chief agriculture negotiator at the WTO, he would see that it is still the same Bloc Québécois motion that is being used in current negotiations. Canada's position is the Bloc Québécois position. It was an ordinary backbencher from Richmond—Arthabaska—whom the parliamentary secretary is disparaging—who presented this motion, who worked on it with his colleagues and who influenced Canada's position today. The hon. member must be embarrassed that a sovereignist MP and Quebec separatist managed to get such a thing adopted. That is one example.

Another example in this specific matter occurred here on February 13, 2008. Who requested an emergency debate on the livestock crisis? The parliamentary secretary stood up to mock us and tell us it was useless, that everything was just fine and going well, while some of his Conservative colleagues stood up, were brighter and recognized that there was indeed a crisis. Once again, it was the Bloc Québécois who called for and obtained that emergency debate.

Why did the minister contact me a week later to say he would need my help to move Bill C-44 through quickly in order to get cash to farmers? Why did he call me? Why did he ask me for the votes he needed if the Bloc Québécois is useless? The minister needs to wake up.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member on his remarks but I also want to congratulate him for forcing an emergency debate to deal with the hog and beef industry. It really forced the Minister of Agriculture out of his shell so we could get some action, although not enough.

I have the government's response here, which, as I said earlier, is pretty pathetic. The government responded by saying:

The beef and pork sectors recognize that long term competitiveness will not be served by lowering regulatory standards, as the strength of Canada's regulatory system is a key driver in maintaining Canada's animal health status....

Those words are typical of how the government operates. It makes it sound like the committee is against the regulatory regime. We are not against the regulatory regime.

What our committee recommended to the government is that in Canada, yes, a regulatory regime is important, but in Canada, why can the Conservative government not fund the regulatory system similar to what is done in the United States and Europe? It is a food safety issue, a consumer issue, and it should not be a producer cost. We have told the government that.

We have already lost the Gencor plant because that government has a specified risk material fee, a cost on that--

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

Order, please. We need to give the hon. member some time to respond. The hon. member for Richmond—Arthabaska.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Malpeque for his question.

Just a few minutes ago, the minister told us that he would like to harmonize the regulations, but it has not happened. So what does he do? He said that he met with the American secretary of agriculture, but to say what? To do as he did with the 250 producers he met yesterday, when he chatted with them and now everyone is happy? He needs to take his job more seriously than that.

The government has created unfair competition between Quebec and Canadian producers and American producers, who do not have to comply with these rules. There is a big difference.

So there are two choices. They can decide to impose rules. As the minister said, Canada is a sovereign country. However, the producers must be supported until these regulations are harmonized. Otherwise, if we abandon them, we are essentially telling them they need to figure it out for themselves, deal with the regulations, remove the specified risk materials and dispose of them.

If there is no harmonization, the government must absolutely provide support. We cannot have one without the other.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Malpeque for bringing this topic forward for discussion today. I also want to thank my Bloc colleague on the agriculture committee for his eloquent speech a few minutes ago.

Three samples of frozen pork were brought to the agriculture committee today by the hon. member for Malpeque where we were discussing the product of Canada labelling. The member had randomly bought the pork samples at a supermarket here in the Ottawa area. Two of the samples had a product of U.S. label and one had no label on it.

That triggered in me a thought. Here in Canada we have a crisis in the pork industry and animals are being slaughtered, not for consumption but because there are too many of them, and yet at a supermarket, randomly selected by a member of this House, produce can be found that came from the United States. We are not sure where the third sample came from but it was probably from the United States.

Canada has a trade agreement with the United States that allows for the free flow of goods across the border. I suppose, when times are favourable, when our dollar is not that strong and when other conditions are favourable, that is a good idea. However, it seems kind of ironic that we would allow continuing access to products from another country when our own producers are suffering.

Some of the protection measures used by the United States were discussed this morning. It seems to me that when their producers are in a crisis, the American government does not hesitate to assist and ensure help goes to the producers when they are in a crisis. In its farm bill, money has been set aside not only for agricultural producers but for food programs and the environment. The U.S. seems to be able to do that, but here, even with all our good intentions, we always seem to be reacting to certain crises. Now we have a crisis on which we need to react.

I would like to review the recommendations our committee made last December. The first recommendation was this:

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food recommends that Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada deploy, before the end of 2007, a special transitional measure that will provide cash-flow in the form of interest-free loans to be paid back over a period of three to five years, and bankable cash advances to hog and cattle producers.

The second recommendation was this:

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food recommends that Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, in partnership with the provinces and territories, pay out the remaining percentage owed to producers under the CAIS Inventory Transition Initiative (CITI), and respect the federal-provincial funding agreement.

I will also read the third recommendation.

The Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food recommends that Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC) hold formal discussions with the Minister of Finance to show the impact of the strengthening Canadian dollar on the food producing and processing industry in Canada and to examine ways to relieve the pressure on the industry from the rising Canadian dollar. AAFC officials should report back to the Committee on the result of these discussions.

There were also other recommendations.

The sad thing is that we held our committee meetings, we had our discussions, and we made recommendations, but we had to have another committee meeting to talk about the problems in the pork industry.

Then, as someone already mentioned, there was some activity on the minister's end of things. He consulted my colleagues and me, and then we tried to set something up to help producers, mostly through loans. I congratulate him on that.

However, pork producers are facing impending disaster as we speak.

The government, as have other governments, has attempted to address the situation. When a crisis happens, we do not seem to have anything in place to deal with it. We are always reacting. We need to have a hard look at how we deal with agriculture in our country. Are we going in the right direction?

These days we are talking about the whole idea of food security and food sovereignty. We know many issues can be addressed and should be looked at, as more and more Canadians realize it is important that we are able to feed ourselves as a country, as world feedstocks go down, and as there is a push for the biofuels industry. People are finally realizing the movement across the country for the need to put more emphasis on buying local. I do not think we will get any disagreement from anybody in the House about that issue.

As I mentioned, we are now debating the issue of the product of Canada. I think there is agreement that we have to look at this and improve what we designate a product of Canada so we do not have processors, and the example was used this morning, importing apples from different countries, making them into concentrated juice and then labelling that carton of juice as “product of Canada”. There is something not quite right about that.

When we talk about labelling, in my opinion, labelling a product of Canada should be compulsory. It should not be left up to industry. After 2004, we asked the industry to voluntarily label GM foods, but this has not happened.

As we move on, a number of issues have to be addressed in the area of food sovereignty. Next week, for example, I will be in the small community in my riding of Princeton with a group of people who work on the issue of food security in their community. We will show a film called, TABLELAND, and have a discussion on what this means to that community.

When we get back on April 30, there is going to be an evening in Ottawa, where people will be coming together to talk about the wrong direction the world is going in regard to biofuels and the fallacy of that whole argument.

If we look at Canada's food sovereignty and security and, for example, if we look at the question of peak oil, the industrial agricultural model in Canada was built on, and is heavily dependent on it, our low dollar, as well as the abundant and cheap energy for transportation to market, fertilizer and chemical inputs. These conditions no longer exist and are likely to get worse, making this system unsustainable.

What we are now facing in the pork industry is partly as a result of this. The fact is input costs have gone up, the dollar is low and we have had this free market model to produce with free trade, moving it back and forth as much as possible. Yet the European Union has a quota of 0.5%. Over that, our producers have to pay a tariff to get into that market. At the same, as an aside, at the World Trade negotiations we are being pushed to increase the quota so we can allow more products imported into our country.

Clearly something is not right in the direction we are going. It is time for all of us to look at the idea of our food sovereignty, food security and safety, as we address the crisises that keep come up. Hopefully we can have a plan in place to avert this when they come up. The strong dollar makes our exports too expensive for others to buy. More purchasing power to import food makes us dependent on others for our food supply.

The whole issue of climate change, which we are all aware of and on which we all agree, is increasing drought conditions. We have refugees and resource wars because of this. We have rising commodity prices, which are disproportionately affecting the poor. On top of this, we have the biofuel industry in North America and in other parts of the world, which is not the main reason but one of the reasons that prices of food commodities are going up.

As an example, in the United States farmers are taking away land from soybean production and increasing the land on which they are cultivating corn for biofuels. This means that the effect in Brazil is farmers are planting more soybeans to keep the quota in the world, displacing cattle ranchers from their land to get more land for soybean production. The cattle ranchers are moving into the rain forests and cutting down the forests so they can have land for cattle grazing.

We are getting this spin off effect happening. This in turn is displacing poor people who have been subsistence farmers, in Brazil for example, into the cities. We then have the whole effect of urbanization and migration into the cities.

We see the effect with the NAFTA among Mexico, Canada and the United States. As of January of this year, there has been a free flow of corn across the border. Mexican farmers are not able to compete. They are going broke, so they are leaving their farms, going to the bigger cities and migrating to the United States to work for menial jobs, probably on the black market somewhere, to make a living.

It is time now that we look at the whole industrial model of agriculture. It is time we look at a way of having sustainable communities.

I was in Saskatchewan a few weeks ago and met with some folks who were concerned about the state of agriculture in their province and in Canada. They are saying that they need a policy that looks at not only how they can make the farm more efficient and larger to compete, regardless of our dollar, and keep it moving in that direction. They also need a policy that looks at each community and how they can attract people into the community who can farm, who can have a farm on the outskirts of a small community, for example like Blaine Lake, where my family members grew up.

As well, we need to not only have that community there for farmers, but we need to have affordable housing and a community that is sustainable and able, within the parameters of the community, to feed itself and also feed people in that province and in Canada.

As we move on and look at the way the whole agricultural industrial model is developing, I predict that we will see, and we see it now, more people moving back to rural Canada and who want to work on sustainable farms.

In my area of the West Kootenays, we have an area just across the mountains, called the Creston Valley, wherein folks are now going to start growing wheat again because there is a demand for it in cities like Nelson and in the West Kootenays, keeping in mind the whole idea of food sovereignty and the 100 mile diet. We see this as a model.

I had mentioned also the whole area of biofuel production. I have many concerns in regard to the current legislation before us. I regret that the amendments I had for Bill C-33 in committee were not passed.

I will read the amendments because I think that had they been passed by our committee and approved by Parliament, we could have more of a sustainable direction in the area of biofuel production.

The first amendment rejected was:

—prohibiting the use of genetically modified grains, oilseeds or trees for biofuel production, except for those genetically modified grains, oilseeds or trees that were used for biofuel production in Canada before 2008...

In other words, what I wanted to have put in with this amendment was that we are not going to give a green light to genetically modified wheat, which in turn would have that contamination effect, would lower the quality and would lower our prestige in the world.

The second amendment I wanted to have put in was:

--prohibiting the use of lands protected by federal legislation and other sensitive biodiverse lands for biofuel production;...

The third one rejected was:

--preserving the biodiversity of lands used in biofuel production;...

The fourth one rejected was:

--prohibiting the importation of grains or oils for use in biofuel production;...

Last week, an editorial in the Manitoba Co-operator stated that Husky Oil in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan, and in Minnedosa, initially was going to rely upon locally grown wheat, second quality wheat, which fits in with the Manitoba government's policy of 10% of land devoted to biofuels. However, because of the prices in the grain industry, farmers are not taking the company up on this. The article said that the company is going to be using corn exclusively, because it is complicated to go back and forth between wheat and corn for ethanol production.

The corn now is grown in eastern Canada, of course, but there is also a biofuel industry initiative in eastern Canada. The fact is that the corn now will have to be imported into Manitoba to sustain Husky Oil. Our farmers really will not be taking part in this industry initiative unless they happen to work at that plant.

The other amendment I wanted to put in was this one: establishing criteria in relation to the environmental sustainability of biofuel production to ensure compliance with internationally recognized best practices that promote the biodiversity and sustainability of land, air and water, and also to establish restrictions on the use of arable land in Canada for biofuel production to ensure that biofuel production does not have a detrimental impact on food supply in Canada and in foreign countries.

Now we come to the argument about food for fuel. I think it is a very logical statement that there is land in the world today that is being taken out of food production to sustain a biofuels industry. Recent research, not only here in North America but in the world, shows that taken in a general context biofuel production does nothing to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. By the time we have taken the input energy, the transportation energy and the energy to power the biofuel plants, it becomes unsustainable when we look at it from the point of view of the environment.

I am not sure if members are aware of this, but the hon. member for Malpeque and others of us on the committee went to Washington. We were told by the Americans that they are pushing the biofuels industry in the United States because they have a cap on their imports. They are pushing it because they need more fuel to “fuel” that rising demand. That will come from biofuels produced in their country at the expense of farming.

In summary, I think now is the time for us to take another look at this and to have a new direction in the area of agriculture. I believe that the whole issue of food sovereignty and food security tied in with sustainable farming communities is the direction we should be taking.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the member spoke fairly extensively about the global situation on food. I met with some Ontario farmers here a few minutes ago. The statistics they gave me are absolutely startling because, although I know the member opposite is not doing this, there is a tendency to blame the farmer, as if he or she is getting the increased prices that are causing this escalation in food costs.

I will give two examples. Both are in dispute: one at this committee and one on ethanol. For a box of cornflakes that costs $3.54 in the grocery store, the amount paid to the producer who grew the corn is actually 11¢, which is a fairly small share. The beef rancher receives roughly $1.83 for a prime sirloin steak that costs about $14.04 in the store.

My point, and I think the member would agree with me, is that the cost of food is not as a result of the primary producer, but I would agree with him that there is some difficulty in other countries because of this.

My question for the member is this. The committee made a number of substantial recommendations in the report about trying to get money out there. In its response, the government had this to say:

The Government recognizes the need to support industry in dealing with serious pressures, but is also conscious of the need to do so in ways that do not mask market signals and are consistent with our international trade obligations.

Does the member believe that is right? We know the minister went down to talk to the secretary of agriculture in the United States before he announced his hog and beef program. Does the member think it is right that the minister seems to be taking more direction from the United States secretary of agriculture than he is from Canadian farmers?

Does the member think we should absolutely always be putting our international obligations first? This is what the minister is really saying in his response. Other countries such as the United States put their farmers--

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Bill Blaikie]

The hon. member for British Columbia Southern Interior.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question is a timely one. He will remember that in the all party report we did on food security all the recommendations were unanimous, except for our opposition to the way the government was handling the Wheat Board question. All of us agreed that food security is a major issue.

As for the response, I will give an example. One of our recommendations was that all federal government institutions favour Canadian producers, so that for folks in prisons or other federal institutions, and here in the House of Commons, we will ensure that we have good Canadian food. The response from the minister and the department was that we have to be careful of our trade obligations.

I believe it was one of the pork producers from Quebec who appeared in front of our committee and asked us to help them fight the foreign governments. They asked if somebody could help them fight what foreign governments are doing to them.

We need to have a government that stands up for our food security and for our farmers, even at the expense of ruffling a few feathers. I read an article about an attorney from the United States who said that she could not understand why our minister and our department were being so nice to our trading partners. The United States does not do that and we should not be doing it here.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague mentioned that we are reacting to a crisis. We are reacting to 13 years of inaction and incompetence. That is what we are really reacting to. Quite frankly, we inherited a mess from the former government.

My colleague seems to be critical of the progress so far. I would like to ask him this: what is he against? Is he against consultation with the farmers by the minister? Is he against trying to make farms progressive, profitable and sustainable? Is he against putting farmers first? That seems to be what he is saying.

The disconnect between the NDP and Canadian farmers is astonishing. The NDP and its big city caucus simply do not understand agriculture. After listening to the member for the last 20 minutes, I have to ask the question, does the NDP really understand agriculture? Does the NDP understand what we have done in the last two years?

We have delivered on supply management. We are moving forward on biofuels in support of our grain farmers and in support of a greater tomorrow. We are working to give western farmers the same freedoms that farmers in the rest of Canada enjoy. We are continuing to work in support of our livestock farmers. What has the NDP ever done for farmers?

We are putting farmers first. Why are NDP members not?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, one would think it is election time, but my hon. colleague from the agriculture committee read his notes very well, so I would like to thank him for that.

I will answer the question with a question. When I talk about food security in our country and when I say that we appear to be going in the wrong direction, what is he not in agreement with?

There are programs in place, but obviously something is not right if people are losing money and we have a crisis. As I said, we seem to always be reacting to situations rather than trying to have this infrastructure in place.

I also would like to remind the member that as agriculture critic for my party I represent many farmers right across this land, and we talk on a regular basis. That, for example, is why I cannot understand the government continuing its attack on the Canadian Wheat Board, which the majority of farmers on the Prairies would like to retain as single desk commodity.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that was a very good presentation by the member for British Columbia Southern Interior. Contrary to what the parliamentary secretary said, a number of New Democrats represent communities that have farmers. My riding, for example, has a very large agricultural industry in regard to farmers and also the processing.

One of the struggles that we in British Columbia have, and certainly in Nanaimo—Cowichan, is that the government has failed to recognize the needs of small farmers, whether it is protection and preservation of agricultural land or making sure their products have access to regulations that make sense for small processors. For example, we have seen the regulations on abattoirs devastating the industry on Vancouver Island.

I wonder if the member could comment specifically on the lack of support for small farmers and the impacts of genetically modified organisms, GMOs, which are sort of coming in a back door through this bill.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out to my colleague and the previous speaker that in fact it was the New Democratic government in British Columbia that brought in the agricultural land reserve, which since then has been hammered away at by other governments that may favour development.

The fact is that we do have small farmers. I also would like to say that I do represent small farmers in my area, who are being hammered by the meat regulations that our provincial government has imposed, which basically prohibit a farmer from killing and selling meat on and from his or her property. Interestingly enough, this exemption exists in the province of Nova Scotia. This is not the case there. Farmers are allowed to do that.

All of this is a result of the pressure being put on provinces by our federal government and pressure from the World Trade Organization to harmonize. As we do, as we move into this big agricultural industrial model, which favours genetically modified crops and harmonization, it is the small farmer who is suffering. Somehow, then, we have to help sustain our small communities and keep agriculture alive.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food and for the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the recommendations contained in the first report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food on the beef and pork income crisis.

As others have said, this is a thoughtful and considered report and the government agrees with the overall spirit of the recommendations. As usual, the standing committee has left no stone unturned in its research. The members of the agriculture committee work very well together.

Witnesses were consulted from right across the value chain. Representing producers, there were the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, the Canadian Pork Council, la Fédération des producteurs de bovins du Québec and la Fédération des producteurs de porcs du Québec. Representing processors, there were the Canadian Meat Council and Maple Leaf Foods. This sector-wide approach is appropriate because agriculture is such an integrated industry. No one link is affected without reverberations across the whole value chain.

I agree with this very much. This is why the mantra of the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is farmers first, because if farmers prosper, then processors prosper, retailers prosper and consumers benefit. It all starts with a prosperous, vibrant farm gate.

There is no single factor behind the current crisis in the pork and beef industry. Rather, it is a combination of changes to the economic environment under which the sector is operating today. A strong and rapid appreciation of the Canadian dollar, a cyclical drop in hog prices, a rise in costs for inputs such as feed, fuel and regulatory compliance, labour shortages, wage increases and market access challenges related to the BSE crisis have all come together in what has been called a perfect storm battering our sector both at and beyond the farm gate.

Clearly, a sectoral approach is needed to meet a sectoral challenge. This is the only way forward. It is the way the committee took. It is the way the government is delivering short term assistance to the sector through measures such as the enhanced advance payments program and the sow cull program.

Amendments to the Agricultural Products Marketing Act to enhance the advance payments program were made in full consultation with producers. We spent a lot of time working directly with the Canadian Pork Council and Canadian cattlemen. We looked at a lot of very good ideas.

At the same time, everyone at the table is conscious of the need to ensure that our actions do not mask market signals or attract countervail action from our trading partners. Those good ideas delivered results. These amendments are delivering exactly what producers asked for: easier access to cash advances. In fact, as a result of the changes made to the act and emergency advances, this government is making up to $3.3 billion available to struggling livestock producers.

Producers will now have access to that support without having to use other programs as security. Producers will also be able to trigger emergency advances under the amended program. We have grown these emergency advances from $25,000 to $400,000. The first $100,000 is interest free.

The government listened to farmers. The bottom line result is that producers now have quicker and easier access to the cash they need to weather the current storm. But weathering the storm is not enough. This government is committed to helping to build a better future for Canadian farm families.

That is why we also announced a $50 million cull breeding swine program. We built this program in close consultation with the Canadian Pork Council. The council itself will deliver the program. It is a program that will help the Canadian hog industry become leaner and more competitive in a new and tighter market.

Producers are in the best position to determine the way forward for their industry. They have expressed their appreciation for the collaborative approach that this government and the minister have taken.

For example, Bob Friesen, president of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture said:

These measures give our hard-hit livestock producers more tools for overcoming the obstacles they face and getting through this difficult time. I want to thank [the Minister of Agriculture] and his government for consulting with industry and delivering this much-needed boost.

Beef producers also expressed their appreciation to the government's inclusive response to their needs. Hugh Lynch-Staunton, past president of the Canada Cattlemen's Association, said that the changes to the APP “are consistent with a CCA recommendation and will improve Canadian producers' ability to deal with their liquidity costs”. He also said, “We're very pleased with this because it does provide liquidity for individuals to make more sensible decisions than they would in a forced situation”. He also said, “It will provide the much needed cash flow for producers at a critical time”.

They said they were very pleased.

“We are very satisfied”, said Claude Viel of the Fédération des producteurs de bovins du Québec. Meanwhile, pork producers were also supportive.

This will be of great assistance given the current difficulties.

“This will be of great assistance given the serious difficulties we are facing”, said Jean-Guy Vincent, president of Fédération des producteurs de porc du Québec.

Clare Schlegel, president of the Canadian Pork Council, said that the measures provide the breathing room they have been asking for. The measures in the package go a long way to giving producers the tools they need to manage through this terrible crisis.

The bottom line is that we have delivered for producers. We are not stopping there. We will continue to work shoulder to shoulder with the industry to monitor the situation, to identify gaps in programming and to assess the need for further action.

We will work through the beef and pork value chain round tables with producers, processors, retailers and others to make our regulations more responsive, to increase market access for beef and pork, to help industry implement the enhanced feed ban and to help build a sector that can compete and win in the global marketplace.

I happen to know that we are on the right track. I have been across the country making a few visits, but last night in my home riding of Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, there were over 200 actual producers who met with the Minister of Agriculture . As he entered the room, 250 farmers got to their feet and gave him a standing ovation for the actions the minister is taking.

To go on further, during the question and answer period, he answered the questions. We got very positive comments for the types of actions we have taken. They told us that after 13 years of getting false promises, finally they have gotten some action. I was so proud to be a member of this government last night.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I really found the member's remarks interesting, because he is the member--

[An hon. member]

Surprising.