House of Commons Hansard #83 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was product.

Topics

Canada Consumer Product Safety ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his remarks and for his very pertinent question.

Clearly, we do not share the same ideology. Members of the Bloc have an ideology that prompts us to think and work for the people in our ridings, not necessarily for the people who organize society, who make money, who engage in free trade with other countries. We are closer to the workers and labourers, and therefore, to consumers.

At the other end of the spectrum, the Conservative Party's ideology means that it is in no hurry to introduce this kind of bill because it could hurt private enterprise, which may want certain privileges. The bill calls for traceability and documentation, but the minister may choose not to ask for these things if it is not in the companies' interest.

There seems to be a huge abyss between our two ways of thinking. We have before us a bill that we think is very important and should have been introduced a long time ago. But the government thinks that this bill, whose goal is to protect the average consumer, is not as important as a bill to protect the weightier interests of the people who are maintaining the neo-liberal capitalist status quo in this country.

We have to wonder if the Conservatives are doing everything they can to drag this bill out. They should have introduced it a year and a half ago. There would have been enough time to have it passed before an election. Now they might try to drag it out until after the election, which could happen who knows when, but possibly a while from now. It takes some time for a bill to be passed, and when it is introduced late in the game like this one, obviously there is a good chance it will never be passed.

Canada Consumer Product Safety ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is in the same vein as what my colleague was saying. During question period today, the Minister of Canadian Heritage, Status of Women and Official Languages spoke about how the market ruled. Why would the market rule? What should rule is justice, a sense of responsibility and the possibility of straightening out a situation that is wrong or that has become intolerable.

There are many examples of the problems we have had with products. I remember very well. Last week, I was in my riding, and once again we had to sound the alarm. People had to demonstrate in the street. They do not do this for fun. The cod fishers who were asking for a shrimp quota were forced to take to the streets to demonstrate in order to get it. Why did this not happen three weeks earlier, so we could have avoided the stress and the demonstration?

The Conservatives seem to be fond of the wait and see approach, where they let things go and let the markets rule. They wait for problems to come up, or rather they wait for problems to make the front page. When a problem makes the front page, they will do something. Otherwise, they do not.

I wonder if my colleague agrees that there are many examples that lead us to believe there are ideological differences.

Canada Consumer Product Safety ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I think my colleague from Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine sees the situation quite clearly. Ideology is what separates us from the Conservatives. A bill like this one is a bill that was introduced because of international markets and because almost anything goes. Trying to be on equal trade footing has brought us to our knees. We are prepared to sacrifice everything and do anything for trade.

Commercially speaking, it does not matter to us where our products come from. If we lose jobs it is not so bad. Trade with a capital “T” as big as this House is controlled by the market. That is what is happening. At some point, when we have compromised too much, we end up poisoning our citizens. That is what we are seeing. We are poisoning our children, our people and we are creating the possibility of long-term illnesses.

We used to talk about workplace illness. Now we talk about consumer illness. Because we have allowed the markets to spiral out of control, we are now dealing with consumer illnesses.

Canada Consumer Product Safety ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, sadly, there is only a few minutes left for me to point out the concerns I have with Bill C-52. I will cut to the chase and build on the comments of my colleague from the Bloc Québecois, who pointed out, quite rightly, that the root of our problem today can be found in the laissez-faire capitalism associated with free trade, which has led to further and further deregulation and, in fact, a reluctance for governments to regulate in the sense that it would have and should have to protect citizens of our country.

I note the Hazardous Products Act was put in effect in 1968 and has been virtually unchanged since then. That was a period of time when we made things in Canada. We were not worried about the import situation quite as much. We could control, modulate and regulate the input into the products. When it had the stamp “made in Canada” on it, we could assume it was probably fairly safe.

We have yielded that control now. The globalization of capital has made that irrelevant. In fact, we are condemned when we raise these issues. We are told that we are trying to put up non-tariff barriers to trade whenever we say that we should at least harmonize our standards, so the expectations are that we are not being poisoned by our trading partners.

However, my colleague is right. We are poisoning another generation of children in our zeal, in our enthusiasm to close down the last manufacturing plant in Canada and export every last job. We are in such a hurry to do this that we are not even being careful enough to ensure it does not have health consequences to the point where we are pickling the innards of our kids with some toxic super-chemicals that they are being bombarded with in this post-war era.

The petrochemical industry has gone nuts in our country and in the world in the post-war years. Mark my words, in the very near future one in two Canadians will die of cancer. It never used to be that way. Fifty per cent of all the people will die of cancer when my kids are my age. That is absurd. That means we have done something terribly wrong.

If anybody watched Wendy Mesley's show on television, the very sensitive investigative journalism done about her personal struggle with breast cancer and the questions that were not asked about what happened when we ingested chemical A and chemical B and it turned into chemical C inside our internal organs, those are the questions that are not being asked. We are being far too casual.

The one thing we are being extraordinarily casual about is the biggest industrial killer the world has ever known, which is asbestos. Canada not only allows the import of asbestos, it is the world's second largest exporter of the world's greatest industrial killer. Asbestos kills more people than all other industrial toxins combined, but yet in Canada not only exports it with great and wanton abandon, it heavily subsidizes the production and export of asbestos.

We can be critical of allowing toys coming in from China with asbestos and lead in them. When I said that there were toys with asbestos coming in to Canada, the Minister of Health stood and said that I was exaggerating, that the government would never tolerate it. A few short weeks later we found toys with asbestos in them, 5% tremolite asbestos in the CSI fingerprint game, which was such a popular seller last Christmas.

We are so cavalier about asbestos, we are not only mining it, producing it, selling it, exporting it, we are importing it as well. I believe the government is afraid to condemn the use of asbestos because it does not want to offend the province of Quebec, from where asbestos comes, the last remaining asbestos mine in the country.

The asbestos mines that I worked in are all closed. They were closed by natural market forces. Nobody will buy this toxin any more unless, for some magic reason, it is the benign asbestos that they mine in that province when all of a sudden it is subsidized and its export is promoted.

We send Canadian Department of Justice lawyers around the country like globe-trotting propagandists for the asbestos industry to find new markets and new places to pollute with Canadian asbestos.

We are just as guilty of that but we are not taking the steps to protect our own people from the import of toxins because, unlike Europe and the United States, Canada does not even have the power to issue a mandatory recall of a product. The United States can. In California and in a number of states they clearly take their hazardous materials more seriously. In a properly functioning public health protection system, when a problem comes to light about a product on the market there should be an obligation on the part of the government to inform consumers and remove it from the market. However, under this new law, the government may do this but there is nothing to require it to do this. It is still optional. The word “may” is used throughout.

Bill C-52 is inadequate on a number of levels, one of which I was just illustrating. I believe it should require the government to take positive action when it comes to light that a product on the market is harmful.

In the current context of the bill, if the government is made aware of a toxic chemical in a children's toy there would be no legal requirement for it to even make people aware of it. In the case of the asbestos in the CSI fingerprint toy, it was denying it. It would not even suggest that asbestos was bad for us. I made the government aware of it but there was no attempt by the government to recall the toy. We had a press conference downstairs in the 130-S room. To this day, the government has done nothing about it because for it to say that the asbestos in that children's toy is bad, it would need to admit that the asbestos it is subsidizing and exporting around the world is bad for people. It would be caught and hoisted on its own petard, as it were.

There is no legal requirement in the bill for the government to make people aware of a bad product and I think that is wrong. I suppose there would be political consequences if we exposed the government, which I did in the CSI thing, but it is hard because, as we know, after the fact accountability relies on the government getting caught.

Similarly, the minister would have the power to order companies to conduct studies to ensure that a product is safe but nothing in the proposed law would ensure that products are regularly tested for toxicity. This is the subject of another bill, Bill C-225, in my name, a pesticide bill where we believe there should be a reverse onus on the companies that want to sell pesticides, herbicides and fungicides and that it should not really be up to us, or even the Government of Canada, to prove beyond a doubt that the product is absolutely safe. It should be the company that must prove the chemical is safe before it is sold. There is no such obligation now. The company can sell anything and only if someone does all the testing and determines it is unsafe will the company be curtailed in the sale of products.

That is completely arse backwards. That is clearly the lobbyists and the petrochemical industry. The pesticide producers have done a very effective job in tying the government around their little finger. This reverse onus notion would put the burden of proof on the manufacturers that the products they are selling are safe and the precautionary principle should surely apply, especially when we are dealing with children and pregnant women who are that much more susceptible and vulnerable to chemical contamination. The cell walls of a developing child, as the cells are multiplying, are so thin that they are like little sponges for these chemical pesticides.

We cannot put a tonne of pesticides on our lawns and let our children go out to roll in the grass and not expect them to be affected and affected permanently.

We also believe and are calling for the nationwide ban on the cosmetic, non-essential, non-agricultural use of pesticides. The provinces of Ontario and Quebec have now done it but that is only in the absence of leadership and direction from the federal government that should have done it without having to wait for other jurisdictions to do its regulatory job for it.

I want to simply say that there are a number of independent agencies in civil society that are critical of the bill. I seem to have misplaced my press release from the United Steelworkers of America but it is certainly one that has had a campaign on toxic imports partly because of the job issue. I would be happy to continue this at a later time.

Canada Consumer Product Safety ActGovernment Orders

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

When we return to the study of Bill C-52, there will be 10 minutes remaining for the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I asked a question about the economy in the House back in February and the Conservative government did then what it continues to do, and that is to manufacture misleading communications on a vast range of issues.

This winter we saw the Minister of Industry attempt to rewrite the history of deficits in Canada with both false and bizarre comments on the various components of the Liberal plan for Canada.

The Conservatives released a 67 page document that disingenuously claims that the Liberal spending priorities would drive Canada into deficit. The Conservative interpretation of the Liberal spending priorities is quite simply totally wrong.

By way of an example, the Conservatives describe the cost of the Liberal demand for corporate tax reductions as simply unknown. This is despite the fact that they themselves included this measure in their fall economic and fiscal update. It causes one to question.

Further, the Conservatives grossly overestimate the cost of the 30/50 plan to reduce poverty in Canada, claiming that the entire plan would be paid for in the first year, and not over the five year period as we have committed to.

The Conservative document also double counts the Liberal commitment to invest $1 billion in manufacturing jobs in technologies, claiming that we would both create an advance manufacturing prosperity fund and match the Ontario government's manufacturing fund.

We have been worried for some time about the capacity of the Conservative government to be trusted to provide valid financial analysis.

The Conservative government inherited a strong economy two short years ago. After 13 years of Liberal leadership, Canada was in a robust fiscal situation, the envy of the G-7 countries. What has the government done? It has squandered Canada's economic good fortune in two short years with spending priorities that are determined by short term political gain without any consideration for Canada's long term economic stability.

After two years of Conservative government, manufacturing sales have plummeted to a three year low and Canada's trade surplus has shrunk to its lowest levels in nearly a decade. Conservatives are losing credibility on important files like the environment, homelessness, immigration and foreign affairs, all of this at a very alarming rate, but their lack of initiative and vision on the economic file is alarming to say the least.

It would seem that this recent campaign of lies is designed to discredit the stellar economic and fiscal record of the Liberal Party.

If I may take a moment to boast, the previous Liberal government delivered the longest string of budgetary surpluses since Confederation. Moreover, Liberal leader Stéphane Dion has repeatedly made it clear--

6:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Order. The hon. member is a privy councillor and experienced in this House, and knows not to name other members of the House by their own name.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just checking to see if you were listening.

Our Liberal leader made it clear that a new Liberal government will keep Canada's books balanced. This contrasts sharply to the record of the current Conservative finance minister, who was part of the common sense revolution in my province of Ontario that left a $5 billion deficit.

The finance minister has a devastating record which includes broken promises on income trusts and a damaging flip-flop on interest deductibility.

With the downturn in the economy, Canadians are looking to the federal government for leadership and economic vision, but what do they find? They find a Conservative government that has completely been preoccupied with fabricating and misrepresenting Liberal priorities. This continued lack of economic stewardship is irresponsible and damaging to Canada's economy.

6:35 p.m.

Macleod Alberta

Conservative

Ted Menzies ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, in the face of global economic uncertainty, Canadians can be confident that their federal government is engaged in prudent fiscal management, and taking aggressive and pre-emptive measures to help Canada succeed.

For instance, we have provided nearly $200 billion in long term, permanent tax relief to stimulate and bolster the economy, including lowering business tax rates to the lowest among major industrialized economies, cutting personal income taxes, and reducing the GST by two per cent.

This year alone, there has been $21 billion in tax relief. That is roughly 1.4% of Canada's economy. It has entered and is entering our economy this year in a timely and permanent economic jolt.

We are making the largest federal public infrastructure investment since World War II through our $33 billion building Canada fund.

We have also introduced a $1 billion community development trust to assist communities and workers affected by economic instability, build a better future through job training, create opportunities for workers, economic development to create new jobs, and infrastructure development to stimulate economic diversification.

Indeed, the member's home province of Ontario has been very appreciative of our trust. Ontario's Liberal premier has called it “good for the people of Ontario” and said that the Prime Minister has “done something which we've been asking of him”.

In its recent budget, the provincial government in Ontario outlined how it will utilize its portion of the $1 billion trust, including initiatives to help unemployed workers transition to new careers and well-paid jobs in the growing areas of the economy.

Collectively, these measures have been praised by a wide range of organizations, including the IMF, whose recent “World Economic Outlook” singled out Canada's action to date, remarking:

A package of tax cuts has provided a timely fiscal stimulus...the government's structural policy agenda should help increase competitiveness and productivity growth to underpin longer-term prospects.

Similarly, the University of Toronto's Institute for Policy Analysis heralded our Conservative government's measures to strengthen Canada's economy, stating:

Helping offset the [global economic] weakness...will be the “fortuitous” injection of stimulus from the tax cuts....

A Calgary Herald editorial praised the government's efforts to support the Canadian economy, pointing out that:

--the fall economic update [will] strengthen consumer demand, notably the 1% GST reduction, and...announced a billion-dollar fund to assist one-industry communities...for once a government seems to have been ahead of the curve.

We remain confident in our fiscal outlook.

We will continue our record of running balanced budgets.

Even the Liberal finance critic, the member for Markham—Unionville, has acknowledged that Canada will continue to remain in a surplus position, remarking that “if history is any guide...over time, surpluses will turn out to be larger than they currently are”.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate these chances to have adjournment proceedings. I wish that we would have more back and forth debate in this House because I think it is what Canadians would like.

However, what Canadians also deserve is honesty from this government and all members of Parliament. It is interesting to hear the parliamentary secretary talk about my province of Ontario when it is his government's finance minister who went out and told the world that people should not invest in Ontario because it was not a good place to invest and who took on my premier and my province when we all recognize that for years Ontario has been the economic engine of Canada.

I would also point out to my hon. friend that governing is about making decisions and balancing priorities. The government decided it would give two one-point GST reductions. The first one cost the coffers $5 billion, the second around $7 billion. Thirteen billion dollars went toward paying down the debt when it could have been invested in Canadians.

There are no more shock absorbers in our fiscal outlook. We said at the time when the budget came forward that we were one SARS crisis away from deficit. We are now a heartbeat away from deficit.

6:40 p.m.

Conservative

Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, I might suggest that it does take a certain kind of politician to view giving back to Canadians their hard-earned money as anything but positive. We are proud to be ending the former Liberal government's practice of significant overtaxation, which resulted in huge surpluses.

Instead, while maintaining a sensible fiscal cushion, we are delivering historic tax relief that will leave more money in the pockets of Canadians. We are reducing the overall tax burden to its lowest level in nearly 50 years, lowering the overall tax burden by nearly $200 billion and, unlike the Liberal opposition, we will not engage in billions and billions of dollars in reckless spending that would throw Canada back into deficit.

The Liberals' financial commitments made since the 2006 federal election alone would immediately push Canada back into deficit, racking up over $60 billion in new debt. Obviously, the Liberal Party has embraced deficit spending and a tax and spend approach, one very similar to that of the member for--

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Order. It is with regret that I must interrupt the hon. parliamentary secretary.

The hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

6:45 p.m.

Independent

Louise Thibault Independent Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, this evening I would like to go back to the question I asked on March 3 about respecting the specific conditions and obligations in the motion that was passed concerning the Canadian armed forces mission in Afghanistan.

We explained our stance on a motion that required the Conservative government to orient the armed forces' mission toward overall reconstruction of the Afghan state and to withdraw from going after the Taliban after 2009. As we know, the purpose will be to establish legal, security and economic institutions in a country ravaged by war for over 40 years.

That motion also called on the government to coordinate with the departments and agencies involved in reconstruction in the province of Kandahar. We still do not know how the cabinet committee on Afghanistan will carry out that mandate on the ground.

The wording of the motion committed the government to greater transparency and accountability toward citizens and Parliament with respect to the three parts of the mission. As planned, the government created a special committee of the House, but up to now, we have been hearing anything but good news.

We learned from General Hillier that NATO had known since 2006 that we needed at least 1,000 more soldiers to secure the province of Kandahar. This information was not originally taken into account, because members were not informed during the debates held recently. This probably meant that the Taliban was able to carry out more attacks on the troops in that region. It is probably one thing that limited Canada's chances for success.

Another 1,000 soldiers will fight alongside us, and we learned that they will be Americans. So there will be 1,000 more soldiers. However, based on what we know about them, will they respect the spirit of the motion adopted by the House of Commons? Do they even know about it? Will they adapt their strategies to take into account their Canadian comrades in arms and the role given to them by Parliament?

Will the Canada-U.S. forces work on rebuilding and on securing roads and villages to enable Afghans to live in peace, or will they continue their hunt for the Taliban?

We also learned that the cost of the mission had been hidden from Canadians and their representatives. The military budget for Afghanistan went from $402 million in 2005-06 to $803 million in 2006-07. In 2007-08, the cost of the mission will surpass $1 billion.

Even though the government had this information, it waited for the motion to be voted on before giving it to us. So much for the transparency and accountability referred to in the motion.

Only later did we learn that the cost of the mission was increasing and that the Canadian government was hiding this fact from us. Everyone will agree that this was nonetheless an important factor to consider in an honest vote on the motion, like the one my colleagues and I took part in in this House.

In the end, our unbelievable Minister of Foreign Affairs ruined months of work by calling for the resignation of a governor, interfering in something that diplomats were handling perfectly well and thereby seriously damaging our diplomatic credibility.

I am beginning to think that the extraordinary work of the soldiers, aid workers and government officials is being undermined by the federal government's incompetence and I must ask, once again, in concrete terms, what difference will we make in Afghanistan?

6:50 p.m.

Calgary East Alberta

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and to the Minister of International Cooperation

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for raising this question.

In Afghanistan we strive to strike a balance between three pillars of engagement which are security, development and good governance. That is because security, development, and good governance are fundamentally dependent on each other in Afghanistan. This principle is embodied in the Afghanistan Compact, a five year road map for progress launched in 2006. The compact sets out benchmarks in each of these areas and timelines for meeting them. The Afghanistan Compact guides our engagement in Afghanistan.

When the motion was presented in this House, it was agreed to by the majority. Of course, the Bloc and the NDP voted against it. Nevertheless, it was passed with a majority vote. It was not a government motion. It was about the Canadian engagement in Afghanistan. I would like to correct the member and tell her that this was a Canadian position.

When the Prime Minister appointed the non-partisan panel which came up with the recommendation for 1,000 soldiers and everything, we acted and we had a debate in this House. It is hard for me to understand why the member was not part of the debate when we discussed all of this.

Nevertheless, the government is fulfilling what the motion stated. A cabinet committee has already been set up. A parliamentary committee has also been set up which is made up of opposition members, myself, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence. We will be working to ensure the essence of what was passed in this House, which is what Canadians want.

I want to re-emphasize the point that although we are committed to Afghanistan, we are committed to informing Canadians and having a debate in this House and telling Canadians what the mission is accomplishing and what is happening in Afghanistan.

I would like to assure the hon. member that this government is completely committed to an open and transparent system to ensure we fulfill our requirement which is the Afghanistan Compact.

As far as the 1,000 troops are concerned, this mission is UN mandated under NATO. We are a member of NATO. The American forces are a member of NATO. The French are a member of NATO as are the British. More than 60 countries are engaged in Afghanistan either through military, security, development or other aspects.

We know that Canadians take great pride with the international community in the effort of our brave diplomats, soldiers and development workers in Afghanistan. They are proud that Canada is making a difference in the lives of millions of Afghans.

6:50 p.m.

Independent

Louise Thibault Independent Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, when I ask a question during an adjournment debate, I always do so in a non-partisan manner. I do not need to be lectured by any parliamentary secretary. I have studied this file. I took part in the debate and I remember it quite well. It was almost 11 p.m. on the last night and I voted in favour of this non-partisan motion. I would appreciate not being lectured in this House. I do not lecture others either.

The motion has been debated. I agree that it is non-partisan, but the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and to the Minister of International Cooperation will nonetheless acknowledge that this is a governmental obligation. It is not up to Parliament to run the UN-NATO mission in Afghanistan. That is the government's responsibility.

Why was the government not transparent before the motion was adopted? Why did it not tell us that it knew since 2006 that 1,000 more soldiers were needed? Why did it not give us the right budget figures? Why was it not transparent? Why was it not truly accountable? That is what we were promised in the motion.

I seriously question the way I was informed—

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

I regret that I must interrupt the hon. member.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and to the Minister of International Cooperation now has the floor.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Deepak Obhrai Conservative Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, nobody is giving anybody a lecture. She is a member of Parliament and she has the right to ask any questions and the government will put forward a position.

In her question she said that she needed transparency. I am telling her that this government is committed to transparency. That is what we have actually done. That is what we have done in the past and that is what we intend to do in the future. I was just outlining what this government has done to achieve the transparency that Canadians want. I can assure the member that we will continue to do that.

She has every right to ask questions in Parliament about what the government is doing whenever she desires. I know she is an independent member of Parliament so sometimes she is not on committee so she may have missed that. I can assure her that she is more than welcome to ask any questions on transparency in reference to our mission in Afghanistan.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:51 p.m.)