House of Commons Hansard #100 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was chair.

Topics

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, the member opposite is making an assumption that is nonsensical, and that is some sort of fifty-fifty balance must be achieved on every budget item. Of course there are some budget items that favour some people in certain occupations, for example, truck drivers who happen to be more commonly male than female. The gender analysis shows that, yes, it is a more male gender favourable tax provision. Then the government has to decide whether to do it or not. Then there are other tax provisions that are more favourable to women as a group than to men. Therefore, these are matters that we look at during the course of the budget preparation.

However, to make the assumption that there is some kind of magic fifty-fifty here is out of touch with the world.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Chair, I am not looking for fifty-fifty, but I am glad to hear the minister admit that despite the propaganda that this is supposed to help low income Canadians, it does not, especially women. It is good to get that on the record.

The other thing that has also hurt women is the $1,200, which is supposed to be a universal child care program. In fact, it does nothing for the average woman, especially single parents. It does absolutely nothing for low income women to get back to work. Again, it hurts. The lower the income, the less money they get, so this is very detrimental.

Has the minister received a proper gender based analysis on this and what did he do about it?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Yes, Mr. Chair, it has been the subject of a gender based analysis, as all proposals are.

The member will be interested to know that the proposal will be of principal benefit to women. About 65% of the estimated increase in GIS and other income tested benefits and credits due to TFSA savings will go to women. Neither TFSA investment income nor withdrawals will affect eligibility for federal income tested benefits and credits; that is there will be no clawbacks. As I say, the analysis shows that this will be of principal benefit to women.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, could the minister tell us who is the highest spending finance minister in Canada's history?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Yes, I can.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, will he admit that he is the highest spending finance minister in Canada's history?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, is he allowed to call me “he”?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

An. hon. member

Oh, oh!

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Yes.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, that is good. I am establishing a pattern here. Is the minister against putting a price on carbon?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, I think we all realize that carbon is ending up priced in our economy. That is a reality.

We are opposed to a massive new carbon tax. So is the premier of Ontario, by the way, who is disagreeing with his little brother there on the benches opposite.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, is the minister aware that his government estimates that the price on carbon under its mandate will go up as high as $65 a tonne by 2018?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, I am aware that there are at least two approaches to this. Our approach is to regulate industry in Canada and we mean all industry in Canada.

This is something that was mused about by the Liberals when they were in government, but of course they did nothing. There was a 30% increase in greenhouse gas emissions while they were in government and now they propose to bring in this dramatic massive tax on ordinary Canadians, on the expenses people have to endure day by day--

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Assistant Deputy Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Mississauga—Erindale.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, now that the minister has admitted that he wants to put a price on carbon, let me read for members what the environment department says:

For the majority of individual Canadians and for businesses outside the regulated sectors, these costs will be most evident in the form of higher energy prices, particularly with respect to electricity and natural gas.

Does he agree with that?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, I agree with the suggestion by the Liberals that a carbon tax, which they want to impose on Canadians, will be a massive, punitive tax increase, particularly for people with fixed incomes, for seniors and pensioners.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, I guess his non-answer is an answer. He agrees with the document that says the government's plan will be putting higher prices on electricity and natural gas. What does the Minister of Finance intend to do to offset that for vulnerable Canadians?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, I do not agree at all with the assumption and the preface to the question.

What we know is that this government has an approach in which we are going to regulate to control greenhouse gas emissions. We have already made that clear. We are going to regulate all the industries in Canada. That is an important approach by our government. The opposition, the Liberal Party, has a different idea: a massive tax grab from Canadians.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, I want to get this straight. Does he not agree with the Ministry of the Environment document that says the government's plan will increase costs for electricity and natural gas? I want to get this clear. Does he not agree with this?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, I have no idea what piece of paper he is waving around.

I can tell the member this: we will not be imposing a massive new carbon tax on Canadians, particularly Canadians with fixed incomes. If he is concerned about the economy, he should think about the manufacturers and think about the costs that this will mean for them. This is a sector that needs help. It does not need more taxation.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, just so the minister is aware, this is a document that was issued in March 2008 and is called “Turning the Corner: Taking Action to Fight Climate Change”.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

An hon. member

Who published that?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Liberal

Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Chair, it was published by the Department of the Environment. It states that, on average, national residential electricity prices can be expected to rise about 4% by 2020 and natural gas prices by about 2%.

Does the minister agree with that? If that is what he is doing, what does he plan to do about offsetting the cost crisis?

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Flaherty Conservative Whitby—Oshawa, ON

Mr. Chair, there is a point the hon. member is trying to make there somewhere. I cannot find it in his haystack over there.

The reality is that the approach of this government is to regulate all industries. The approach of the Liberals is to bring in a massive new tax. We like our approach. We do not like their approach.

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Assistant Deputy Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

There are 20 seconds left, so we can have a 10 second question and a 10 second response.