Debates of May 28th, 2008

Finance—Main Estimates 2008-09

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, my question is about the $33 billion building Canada fund. How much of that fund was new money that will go directly to cities and municipalities?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Very little.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for Malpeque for his advice with respect to agricultural matters, but we are talking about cities now and the gas tax fund.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

We have cities too.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Of course, he has cities, but not in Malpeque.

With respect to municipalities, that is being done. In budget 2008 that was made permanent. I can tell you, Mr. Chair, it was the most important issue that was raised with me by municipal leaders which was--

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Vancouver Quadra.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, I asked that question because I have quite an interest in sewage. The environment minister talked about billions of dollars for sewage treatment.

As the provincial environment minister, I ordered new scientific monitoring that led to the requirement to treat the sewage in Victoria and the capital regional district.

When I was looking at what money was available from the $33 billion what I discovered was this: $1.3 billion of that supposed $33 billion was actually new and going to the cities. So $1.3 billion over seven years means $200 million a year for the entire country of Canada which means $28 million at most for the province of British Columbia.

The sewage treatment plant facility that is underway for Victoria right now is a billion dollar project. To the finance minister: Will he acknowledge that it was the Liberal government that committed funding and signed agreements for the gas tax and the GST rebate accounting for over one-half of the supposed new $33 billion fund?

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. It is very difficult for the Chair to hear the question when there are quite a lot of members heckling during questions. I am going to ask the colleagues of the Minister of Finance to allow the opposition members to finish putting their questions.

We will proceed with the Minister of Finance.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know that the Liberals only had 13 years to get things done. I know that they think it was not long enough and if they had had one more majority government they would have got all those things done that they talked about.

It is this government that has made the gas tax permanent. It is this government that now provides municipalities with about $2 billion per annum each and every year. Now the municipalities know that they have the guarantee of the $2 billion per year every year going on in perpetuity. It gives them what they wanted, which is the ability to go out and engage in public-private partnerships and lever that money going forward. This is a tremendous cashflow for the municipalities because of the Conservative government in Ottawa.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, the B.C. government, of which I was a part, put in a place a successful rebate program of tax incentives for fuel efficient vehicles. The current federal government brought in the eco-auto rebate with much fanfare in a recent budget, then flip-flopped and reversed it.

Its main environmental initiative in the last budget was to cancel that new program. Is it now no longer the government's policy to encourage the purchase of fuel efficient vehicles?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, absolutely not, of course. We have reduced the cost of fuel by 2% in terms of the GST reduction, which is a reduction for all Canadians.

We know what the auto industry in Canada is keen on, and I think it makes some sense, quite frankly, and that is to get the older vehicles off the road. We have that program. As we know, they are the most polluting vehicles out there.

There is that program to get those vehicles off the road and then there is the auto innovation fund of $250 million. That is saying to industry that we want to work with it on that--

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Ottawa South.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Chair, I could agree that the minister--

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. I am sorry. The member for Ottawa--South.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the minister a couple of very specific questions. I would like specific answers.

The first question--

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Just let me know when they are ready, Mr. Chair.

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. I do not mind when hon. members help out their own party with the answers, but if we could allow the members to ask the questions unassisted, that would be great.

The hon. member for Ottawa--South.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Here is a very specific question for the minister.

Minister, can you tell us, what is the cost per tonne of CO₂ equivalent emissions reductions under your tax deductible transit pass?

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. I will just remind the hon. member for Ottawa--South to address questions through the Chair. The hon. Minister of Finance.

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, we can try to get the answer to that. It is a very specific scientific question.

We can try to get the answer for him. We will probably have to go to the Department of Environment, but I will try to get the answer for the member.

I can tell members this, though: that tax credit is hugely popular with Canadians. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians claimed that credit on their tax--

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Order. The hon. member for Ottawa--South.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, the associate deputy minister of Environment Canada informed us that it was the Minister of Finance doing the calculations and the analysis on this.

I will ask him again: how much did ridership increase under this plan?

[Jim Flaherty, Conservative, Whitby—Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, it was 8% on GO Transit alone, the member for Peterborough says. I would call that instant research. He is a multi-talented member of Parliament.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, today we heard from the associate deputy minister of the environment, who told us on questioning about the $1.5 billion eco-trust that all the analysis and all the administration for the trust is actually accomplished through the Department of Finance and the minister.

Today we asked the associate deputy minister about the $1.5 billion that is being transferred to provinces without conditionality. Can the minister tell us right now, if he could, please, if any value for money propositions have been conducted for the $1.5 billion of provincial spending?