House of Commons Hansard #7 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Speaker, I too share the same concern for the long-term deficit. I frankly see no exit strategy implemented or recited in this particular budget. I have children. Many of us have children and grandchildren who we do not want to see bear the burden of the deficit that will result from this budget.

I can only hope that when it comes time to deal with that deficit, the Liberals will be back in power. Just as we had to wrestle the deficit down that Mr. Mulroney left us with in the nineties, we will be in a position to do that very same thing when we are returned to power. I have had many round tables with seniors in Guelph and they too have expressed concern about the lack of any meaningful policy in the budget that deals with their plight. We on this side of the House will be pressing the government post-budget to develop a more meaningful response to the needs of seniors.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Nepean—Carleton Ontario

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it has been my guiding purpose in this House to stand for people who work hard, pay their taxes and play by the rules. I speak of those quiet souls who live in the suburbs, villages and countryside of my riding. While members across the way may mock such people, I speak of those quiet souls who live in my community, and around this place we do not hear enough from them.

After all, they do not have money for lobbyists, nor do they have time to attend protests, and they have none of the intemperance to demand more from others. They are too busy working, too busy taking children to hockey and soccer, too busy volunteering for their favourite charity. They are the carpenters and the cab drivers, waitresses and welders, builders and bricklayers, farmers and fishermen, engineers and entrepreneurs. An honest day's work is their request and the fruits of their labour are their reward.

So how can I honour that request and how can that reward be fulfilled? First, we can start by giving such people back what is theirs by lowering their taxes. Since taking office, we have lifted the heavy weight of government off of their backs. Because of this Prime Minister, they can now invest in the economy and enjoy the fruits of their investment with a tax-free savings account. Because of our Prime Minister, they can buy goods and services that their families need and pay less GST. Because of our Prime Minister, the average taxpayer in this country pays $1,500 less than before. Because of our Prime Minister, thousands more pay no taxes at all.

The second thing we must do is work in this House for these silent voices and not for the privileged interest groups that are here so often to ask for more of what others earn.

Take, for example, the Ottawa transit strike. After 51 days of gridlock and half a billion dollars in economic costs, our government moved to take the actions that ultimately ended that strike. Those in Ottawa know that throughout this time it has been fairly difficult. The Queensway has been a parking lot, seniors could not get their medication, employees could not get to work, and the poor and the most vulnerable could not get anywhere.

The noble purpose of protecting the downtrodden long ago gave birth to the union movement. How ironic, then, that this same union with this strike so punished Ottawa's most vulnerable. One lady of modest means in our community said that the strike effectively cut off her arms and legs. Another strike victim, named Anna, suffered most of all. The union strike forced her to walk 18 kilometres from her home at Bronson and Carling to her job in my neighbourhood of Barrhaven. A good Samaritan discovered her roadside in -25° weather. To get to and from work she had been walking a total of 12 hours a day.

The union bosses had demanded more “uncertified” sick days, that is, days off without a doctor's note. Like most people in the real world, Anna cannot take uncertified sick days until the strike is over. The union bosses demanded control over their work schedules, but like most people in the real world, Anna certainly did not have the ability to set her own schedule. Like most people in the real world, she was not able to simply go on strike when the going got tough. She has a living to earn, taxes to pay, responsibilities to meet and a sense of duty to shoulder. She has to live in the real world, and by moving to order the bus drivers back to work, we demonstrated that we do too.

I doubt that we will see her around this place lobbying or demanding more from others, but that does not change the central purpose of my seat in this House. My duty is to people like Anna and others, to those who work hard, to those who give what they can, to those who build this country. They work for their families, for their communities and for their country, and it is our duty to work for them.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member for Nepean—Carleton, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, for an excellent speech. I agree with him that essential services to Canadians are important at this time of economic uncertainty. I also agree with him that we are here as representatives of the people. Certainly in my case of Ottawa West—Nepean, which is next door to his constituency, I am here to speak for those who perhaps do not have the loudest voice. I thought he gave an excellent speech. He fights hard for his constituents, and we are certainly very grateful.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, as I stated at the outset, it is our role here to stand for those people who, while they do not cry with the loudest voice and may not be here regularly to demand more of what others earn, are the backbone of this country. They work for Canada, and therefore we should work for them.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his discussion and particularly for his comments about women.

In my riding 25% of families are headed by single parents, the vast majority of them women. I have two questions: what would the government's proposed agenda to remove women's right to use the courts to obtain pay equity mean for these families? I believe the member talked about Anna. What would it mean to children who are poor because their mothers are poor, to child care, and to early childhood education?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member mentioned that single mothers make up a large portion of her constituency. Those are the exact people of whom I was speaking in my address when I said that we should stand for those people who may not have the loudest voice in the halls of power, but who nonetheless do the great work of raising our next generation, working hard in the jobs of today and building for the future of tomorrow.

I thank the member very much for raising their voice in the House of Commons. This government believes in pay equity, and that is why we have instituted in this budget, which I gather she will be supporting, a process that will allow pay equity to occur immediately, so that women do not have to fight for 10 and 15 years to obtain those precious rights that it is our duty to uphold. I thank her for raising that point. I also thank her for supporting the efforts that we in this government are undertaking to uphold that valued principle of pay equity.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to see that the government, even with a deathbed conversion, has decided to support an infrastructure program. When the Conservatives became the government in 1984, they let it lie dormant for 10 years and refused to fund cities, towns and villages across this country with needed infrastructure.

Today the Federation of Canadian Municipalities said that we have a $128 billion deficit. I ask the member how we are going to roll out the infrastructure projects in this country so that cities, towns and communities are able to access them quickly, with not a lot of red tape, yet with transparency and accountability. I am fascinated to know how a party that never supported infrastructure is going to make sure that we can have access. What timeline is the government looking at?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member is right to point out that the government has invested more in infrastructure than has any government in Canadian history.

He is also right to identify that our priority is to see that money translates into roads, bridges, trains and tunnels, real results in the communities we represent.

Our goal is not to spend money. Our goal is to build things and to create jobs while doing it. That is why the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, whose voice we heard earlier, and whose voice some believe they hear too often--

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, I was distracted for a second. The minister's voice is often heard, and it will be heard right across this land with the clanging of hammers and the rustling of machines that will be building tomorrow's infrastructure. He will eliminate the regulation and the red tape that gets between us and the rubber meeting the road, and he will get the job done.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour for me to rise and contribute to this budget debate, especially in light of the fact that in approximately one hour the budget will be determined in the House.

On December 7, 1867, Prime Minister Sir John A Macdonald's finance minister, Sir Alexander Galt, tabled Canada's first ever budget. It was a modest effort by today's standard, just $5.3 million in government spending. It included a rather sizable surplus of $2.1 million.

Since then, members of this hallowed House have debated 142 budgets, 22 mini-budgets, interim budgets and economic updates tabled by 38 different finance ministers. They have debated them in high and in low economic times. They have approved spectacular surpluses and devastating deficits.

There is perhaps no better historical indicator of the ups and downs of prosperity and recession than the federal budget, and this year's is certainly no exception.

However, this budget, Canada's 143rd, is in many ways unlike any this country has ever seen. In years past, when governments faced financial peril and wrestled with the notion of deficit spending, they did so largely from self-inflicted economic conditions. Challenges relating to dwindling revenues and a waning economy could usually be traced to something domestic: a short-sighted policy decision or some kind of over-regulation for example.

Unfortunately, in 2009 Canada has entirely imported this economic turbulence. Let me be perfectly clear. What we face today has absolutely nothing to do with Canada. Canada did not issue billions in questionable mortgages to under-qualified applicants. Canada did not turn a blind eye to its lending institutions as they passed around bad debt like a hot potato. Canada did not tell American banks to close their wallets and did not tell consumers to stop opening theirs.

In fact, while the American economy spiralled into oblivion, Canada continued to adhere to its high standards of fiscal regulation and prudent budgeting.

I was taught at a young age to never live beyond my means. It is something that I still hold strong to today. Whether it is a household, a corporate venture or a government, they will always be on solid ground provided they do not spend more than they take in. When they do so, invariably there will be consequences.

Canada was not living beyond its means when this economic storm hit. Regardless, here we are facing a once in a generation economic downturn. We are not in this alone. This economic torrent is pulling the world into a tailspin, swiftly dragging economies into recession and governments into deficit, regardless of how innocent or how guilty they were in forging this crisis.

Canada, by every economic indicator, is in the best shape of any G7 country to weather the economic storm.

In Alberta, where I come from, we are particularly insulated but by no means immune to the economic downturn. Stimulating demand and investing in public infrastructure is need even in Alberta.

I am here to tell the House why I believe that the government's economic action plan is the answer to our nation's economic woes and why a short term deficit with targeted stimulus measures is the best and perhaps the only way to restore prosperity to this great country.

This was the earliest budget in modern Canadian history. It was by far the most widely consulted budget ever undertaken. It represents a product of the consultative process and the input of literally thousands of Canadians.

We do not relish deficit financing. It is with a heavy heart that we announced the $34 billion in projected revenue shortfall. However, extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary measures.

I am one of the many small c conservatives in the House. As we all know, we do not always respond favourably to the d word. During my years as a member of the Alberta legislature, the thought of running a deficit would have been unthinkable. However, if ever there was a time to set aside political dogmas, this is it.

The last thing Canada needs right now is a chamber full of ideologues trying to score style points in an age old debate that will never be resolved. We need to get on with the business of managing the economy and that is exactly what the budget proposes to do. If it means a deficit, so be it.

However, let us look past the ugliness associated with the word “deficit” and focus on what it will mean for Canada.

First, it will mean jobs. One of the earliest Public Works projects commissioned in Canada lies just down the street from this House: the Rideau Canal. For five years, the British Crown employed thousands of workers to build a waterway. Ever since then, public infrastructure projects have been some of the best ways to get Canadians working and the economy moving. With just over $7 billion in provincial and municipal infrastructure stimulus over the next two years, a host of new construction jobs will soon be available to Canadians.

Second, it will mean savings. The tax relief measures in this budget will save Canadians a total of $20 billion over the next five years, which means more money in their pockets when they need a cushion the most. In challenging economic times, tax reductions are an essential part of the government's effort to stimulate the economy. By increasing the personal deduction to $10,320 and by raising the upper limits of the two lowest tax brackets, we would allow hard-working Canadians to keep but, hopefully, spend more of their hard-earned money.

Third, it will mean homes. This budget aims to help Canadians secure affordable and reliable forms of housing. By providing tax incentives for home renovations, shoring up social housing and easing the burden for first-time homebuyers, Canadians will have access to decent housing when they need stability the most.

Fourth, it will mean commerce. This budget makes specific and pointed investments in several ailing sectors of our economy and reduces operating costs for all small businesses. These investments should jolt sectors like forestry and agriculture back into action when Canadians need healthy markets the most.

Finally, it will mean credit. One of the biggest drivers of the recession has been a lack of available credit to help families adapt and businesses expand. Increased small business borrowing limits and more flexible crown financing institutions will mean more available money when Canadians need cashflow the most.

If that is what running a deficit means, especially at this extraordinary time in our nation's history, then I cannot possibly be against it. If we must go down the road of deficit financing, we should do it now when the price of borrowing is low. If we want to add infrastructure, we should do it now when the price of steel and skilled labour is significantly reduced.

It must be noted that there is nothing in this budget that even hints at the possibility of deficits once again becoming the norm in this country. Canada has been down that path before and it bogged us down in terms of productivity and economic growth.

This government has absolutely no intention of lulling Canadians back into accepting annual or structural deficits. The way this budget is structured, we will be back into surplus within five years, by which time, I should add, Canada will have by far the lowest debt to GDP ratio of any G7 country. If there is such a thing as a fiscally responsible deficit, I would suggest that this is it.

Earlier in my speech I said that this budget was unlike any this country has ever seen. Given the extraordinary measures contained in it, I am sure most members would agree. However, every Canadian budget, all 143 of them since Confederation, have one thing in common: they were all crafted with the utmost consideration for the people of this great nation.

Similarly, the stimulus measures contained in budget 2009 may appear surprising, evening shocking, to a nation that has become accustomed to annual surpluses but they appear that way for a reason. These are extraordinary times and so too must be our response.

In that sense, it is not about comparing the strength of Canada's balance sheet to that of other nations or to the balance sheets of the past. It is not about bailing out one sector of the economy and not another. It is not about spending hikes or tax cuts. It is not even about the deficit. Quite simply, it is about doing what is best for the Canadian economy at this extraordinary time.

Today I would urge members on both sides of this House to consider what the course of action would look like. In my view, Canada's economic action plan is the right response to this unprecedented economic downturn, and I congratulate the Minister of Finance for presenting it one week ago. It recognizes the need for sector specific inducements but at the same time acknowledges that the Canadian economy will only be as successful as her citizens. The economic action plan provisions, especially in housing, will create new demands and, with improved access to credit, the market will be much better equipped to meet them.

Of course I support Canada's economic action plan. This budget is responsible. It is a measured response to an international and extraordinary circumstance. It is my sincere hope that all members of this assembly will carefully consider these measures and draw the same conclusions as I have.

With thousands of Canadians losing their jobs, Canadians expect their government to take decisive action. The economic stimulus package contained in the economic action plan will put displaced Canadians back to work while building much needed public works and infrastructure.

Compromise is a part of the Canadian tradition. Canada's economic action plan is both a product of its unprecedented consultative process--

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I must stop the hon. member there to allow questions and comments.

The hon. Minister of Transport.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member for his speech. He made a number of insightful comments. I want to talk about two things he raised, one being credit.

The Minister of Finance has done a lot to tackle that issue, working with many others. He spoke about that in his constituency. Whether it is with large enterprises, small or medium sized ones or individuals, this continues to be a significant challenge in my riding of Ottawa West--Nepean.

The member also spoke about infrastructure. The public service has done a huge amount of work putting together an infrastructure package and doing what we can to speed up approvals. I congratulate the Minister of Finance and Adam Chambers from his office who worked very hard on this.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hard work that the Minister of Infrastructure is doing and the process that he and his department have had in promoting this economic package.

Clearly Canadians require stimulus at this time. Public Works and Infrastructure has long been a part of the Canadian tradition, from the national railway that our first prime minister undertook to the impressive projects that this government will be undertaking. I congratulate the Minister of Infrastructure for his contribution to the economic stimulus package.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Liberal

Bryon Wilfert Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I heard the member say that the government was heading into what he called a responsible deficit. I think that is a bit of an oxymoron, but in any event, having been parliamentary secretary to two ministers of finance I can tell members how difficult it is to get out of a deficit. A short term deficit over 23 years, there is no such thing as short term. I am not sure where he gets this idea that in five years we will eliminate this massive deficit that we have. I know that the Conservatives had a $12.5 billion surplus when they entered government. I know that they had a $13 billion deficit prior to the stimulus package.

I have a question concerning infrastructure. When will we see timelines to deal with needed infrastructure in this country, to deal with the situation that cities, towns and communities have in terms of not only putting people to work but ensuring we have an economic package that will deal with the definite needs for communities dealing particularly with green infrastructure, sewers, clean water, et cetera?

We need to have that rolled out soon. I am sure his colleague next to him knows the short timeline we have for construction season. We need to get that out there. Mayors need to know when it will be rolled out. I would like to hear from the member when that will happen. It is too bad the minister is still not here because I am sure the minister could have whispered over to him the timeline. If the government has announced it, surely it knows when it will do it.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, I think I posed it as a query in my comments as to whether or not there was such a thing as a responsible deficit, but I would advocate that if there is such a thing this is it because these are extraordinary times where Canada is heading into economic turmoil beyond its control with the potential for a large downturn in economic growth, and of course the job losses that come with it.

With respect to the second part of his comment and question, the Minister of Infrastructure has laid out a five point plan. We are in the process of approving projects. Shovel-ready projects of course will be the first to go. Other projects will be rolled out. These are the types of projects that will immediately put money back into the economy and put Canadians back to work.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his excellent speech and for his view . It was a Canadian view that he gave on what was happening for the country. Not all the views in this House are the same in terms of looking at what is best for Canadians overall.

Would there be an item or two in the economic action plan that will have a direct effect on his riding that he would like to highlight to this House?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, the home renovation tax credit program is a program that I believe many constituents in northwest Edmonton and the city of St. Albert will be able to access.

Many projects have been put off for a considerable period of time. As is reasonably well-known in this House, until very recently Alberta has had an overcharged economy and as a result was frequently unable to find tradespersons to do that type of work. At this point in our economy it is slowing down and workers are available. I think the people in my riding and all over Alberta will take advantage of the $1,350 maximum tax credit to do some renovations to their homes and to put some tradespeople back to work.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the constituents in my riding of Winnipeg Centre, I am pleased to enter the debate on budget 2009 even at this late hour, perhaps even at the last speaking opportunity as we go into the final stage of this debate which will be the vote. I fully expect this budget to pass, knowing what we know about the intentions of the official opposition, although I do not believe the Liberals deserve that title any longer. My colleague, the member for Timmins—James Bay suggested that they folded like cheap suits at the first little bit of pressure. Not once, not twice, but 45 times in a row the Liberals have supported the Conservative government.

Canadians across the country were interested when there was talk of a coalition being formed in Parliament for the first time in Canadian history. They are still amused if not interested in the fact that a new coalition has formed, and that is between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Party.

The new leader of the Liberal Party has proven himself to be nothing more than the Prime Minister's poodle, and I do not say that with any disrespect to poodles. The Liberal leader is the kind of man who surrenders uncategorically and then calls a press conference declaring victory. The galling thing is the monumental hypocrisy of the Liberals who stand up and speaker after speaker condemn the budget as being inadequate, as being an affront to women's rights. I cannot even remember all the eloquent speeches made by Liberals condemning this budget, yet in 15 or 20 minutes I am pretty sure we will see most Liberals stand up and vote for this budget.

What did they bargain for? What was the hard bargaining that the leader of the Liberal Party undertook in exchange for his support? I remember when the NDP had some bargaining leverage in a previous minority Parliament. We traded our support for a Liberal budget for $4.8 billion worth of spending that we thought was important. What did the leader of the Liberal Party trade? Reports and putting the Conservatives on probation. My colleagues in the Conservative Party are trembling at that prospect. I have actually heard them chuckling to themselves about the deal they got. Talk about Jack and the beanstalk and trading in the family cow for three beans, well that is the proportion of the trade that we saw. Criminals all across the country are hoping for a parole officer like the leader of the Liberal opposition.

The current leader of the Liberals is doing a remarkable job of making the former leader of the Liberal Party look like a pretty good leader. We did not know that was possible.

Here is his bargaining stance. I can show the bargaining stance of the leader of the Liberal Party when he was negotiating with the Conservatives. It was like this: “Please, please leave us with some dignity, please. Don't make me go to the people and get the crap kicked out of us, please”. That was the bargaining stance of the leader of the official opposition.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order. I am not sure if the hon. member's posture was unparliamentary, but it was certainly creating a little bit of disorder. Maybe we could pay attention to the hon. member's remarks, and then if people have questions or comments there will be time to do that.

The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry if I lapsed into anything unparliamentary in my language.

The point I am trying to make is that we are faced with competing visions. Let us talk about this in more detail. It is the tale of two countries that are in economic crisis in North America, at least the two countries that are the greatest trading partners. The United States and Canada have found themselves in this global economic turmoil. There are competing visions and competing approaches taken in the two countries.

The President of the United States has put forward a stimulus package that is absolutely transformative. It is inspirational. It is going to change the old carbon based economy to one which the current president acknowledges is necessary to move forward into the next century, a green economy, a sustainable economy, and all the job creation and growth that can come out of that new sustainable economy. In our country we have a budget, a stimulus package which, by comparison, is narrow, small, without direction, without substance and tainted by politics and ideology.

Barrack Obama worked real magic in revitalizing not only his economy, but the sagging morale of his nation. His message of hope is sweeping the land and elevating the hearts and minds of the people he represents. Obama is a sorcerer working real magic.

By comparison, the Minister of Finance is like some road weary carnival magician, pulling sedated bunnies out of a tattered old top hat and saying, “Ta-dah and voilà, another magic trick”, and all it really is is a tired old tweaking of program spending. There is nothing inspirational or transformative about what he has shown us. In fact, it is inadequate and fails the test.

Canadians are not inspired by this budget. Canadians across the country are pointing out the shortfalls of the budget. Canadians, even members of the Liberal Party, are standing up and objecting to the point where the Liberal Party leader announced today that six of his Newfoundland and Labrador MPs are being permitted to vote against the budget in a “symbolic” protest. It has to be asked, what about the other 71 members of the Liberal caucus?

In the last Parliament the former leader of the Liberal Party kicked Joe Comuzzi out of the Liberal caucus just for saying he would vote against party lines on the budget. The current leader of the Liberal Party has not taken any such leadership, maybe because if he kicked out all those who object to the budget, there would be very little left of his caucus.

There are some women members of the Liberal caucus who have long defended women's right to equal pay for work of equal value. Will they be allowed to vote against the budget? That is a question that comes to mind.

The Liberal MP for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour has been standing on his feet in the House complaining about the shortcomings in the budget on the EI fund. Will he be allowed to vote against the budget?

What about Quebec which has 14 Liberal MPs? It is losing $770 million in the budget.

Prince Edward Island with three Liberal MPs is losing $12 million in health funding. Will they have the same permission as their counterparts from Newfoundland to vote against the budget?

Manitoba is losing $13 million in health care by virtue of this budget. No self-respecting member of Parliament from my home province of Manitoba should be voting for this budget and endorsing those millions of dollars of cuts.

The mayor of Toronto, the city that includes the Liberal leader's own riding, has openly condemned the budget as not protecting the most vulnerable. Will the 21 GTA Liberal MPs be allowed to show their disapproval?

This is the frustration Canadians have with the Liberal Party generally. They are chameleons. They are contortionists. They use pretzel logic to rationalize virtually anything, so we never know what they stand for. We cannot take anything to the bank.

As for our coalition, it is a good thing we did not shake hands on it because that lasted for a couple of weeks until at the very first sign of pressure the Liberals folded like a cheap suit.

We are pointing out shortcomings in the budget to the Canadian public so they will know who is standing up for Canadians, so they will know who is standing up as the real opposition to the budget. One simply cannot simultaneously oppose the budget and then vote for it in the same breath. There is a saying that one cannot suck and blow at the same time, but we are about to see a graphic illustration of how this is possible, if we stick around for another couple of minutes and watch the vote on the budget.

Time does not permit me to go through technical details of the budget, nor do we really need to, so I will restrict my remarks to two areas that I find to be abject failures.

The first is with respect to the employment insurance program. In my home province of Manitoba, 67.5% of unemployed people are ineligible for any EI benefits. This program is a catastrophic failure. An insurance program is supposed to provide income maintenance in times of crisis. When someone loses his or her job, he or she should be able to apply for EI and draw from it. It is mandatory to pay into it, but less than 40% of Canadians can get anything out of it when they are in need. That is a cash cow for the government. It is a licence to print money.

EI is no longer an insurance policy. It is a tax on every paycheque. What if it was house insurance and it was mandatory to pay into it and on the day the house burns down there is less than a 40% chance of being able to collect anything? We would say we had been ripped off. That has been the history of the EI system for decades. When the Liberals gutted the EI program, they took $20.8 million per year out of my riding alone in income maintenance benefits. No one has ever corrected this.

Now that we are in a genuine economic crisis, we expect the government of the day to fix the eligibility criteria of the EI program so that more people qualify. I was honestly amazed when the government chose not to deal with the eligibility criteria and only added five weeks to the benefits for those who are already collecting. That is not good enough.

Let me speak about the apprenticeship system. I am a journeyman carpenter by trade. I represented carpenters through the carpenters union throughout my working life. Apprentices are penalized a waiting period when they leave their job to do the school component of their apprenticeship. They are not unemployed. Why do they have a two week waiting period? Part of the deal was that they would leave their job and go to school for six weeks and then return to the job.

Those things could have been fixed and could have been addressed easily in this budget without a great deal of cost because the money is in the EI fund. It is not the government's money. It is the money of the employer and the employee.

The only other specific detail that I will address in the short time I have is the energy retrofit program for housing. I raise the Barack Obama model for the U.S. recovery and stimulus program. I will point out the glaring inadequacies of our program as contemplated by the Minister of Finance compared to the one in the United States.

Let me put it this way. A unit of energy harvested from the existing system through energy retrofit, or demand side management, is indistinguishable from a unit of energy produced at a generating station, except for four important facts: one, it is available at about one-third the cost; two, it creates between three and seven times the number of person years of jobs; three, it is available and online immediately instead of the time it takes to build another generating station, et cetera; and four, it is environmentally friendly and does not create any greenhouse gas emissions. Those four elements make demand side management a far more common sense proposal than the supply side management of building new generating stations in an energy star province like the province of Ontario.

From a stimulus point of view there is no more single important thing we could do because we would get the immediate stimulation of the energy retrofit of the home, which would be the renovation money spent, but also in time, after that renovation was paid for, the energy savings would mean more disposable income in the pocket of the homeowner. There would be a second wave of stimulation 18 months to two or two and a half years down the road. Those homeowners could save up to 40% of their energy costs and they would have a couple hundred bucks more in their pockets. They would surely go out and spend that money in the local economy.

This is an idea that we proposed to the Minister of Finance when he did his consultations with the parties. There is some contradiction here. I certainly submitted it to the representatives of the NDP to present to the Minister of Finance. If that did not happen, I will take the minister's word for it. However, let me suggest that the $10,000 maximum renovation deduction available in the proposal contemplated in the budget would yield a $1,350 rebate. I know it would be welcomed by some, but I do not believe that is enough of an incentive to make people do an energy retrofit to their home that they were not otherwise contemplating doing already. It means one has to have $10,000 to spend before one gets any rebate.

The proposal that we put forward was a revolving fund where there would be no upfront costs to the homeowner or the taxpayer. The energy retrofit would be paid for out of this revolving fund and then homeowners would pay that fund back through the energy savings until such time as the renovation was paid for and then they would get to keep the energy savings from that day on.

That is the kind of proposal that most homeowners would avail themselves of and that is the type of proposal that is going on in the United States. It is a revolving fund concept where Barack Obama and his administration intend to renovate 2 million homes within the parameters of this one program. That is transformative. That generates new technology and manufacturing in energy efficient innovation technology. We believe that is a lost opportunity because part of the message of hope and inspiration that we are hearing from the United States is this idea that we have to wean ourselves off the way we use energy today and that the future lies in a sustainable green economy.

The two things almost complement each other. There are two things we need to do. We need to stimulate the economy and we need to save the planet from global warming and harmful greenhouse gas emissions. The very work that needs to be done to save the planet is, in fact, the work that will shepherd us through these difficult economic times. There is a lot of work that needs to be done and now is the time to do it. If there was ever a justification for going into deficit again, it would be to do the work necessary to lead us into a sustainable economy and a new green environment.

Those are the kinds of transformational messages we are hearing south of the border. Here, it is frankly a void. It is almost the polar opposite, as if in this country we are somehow devoid of ideas of how to stimulate the economy with progressive action that will create meaningful jobs.

The books we are reading on this subject about the new blue-green alliance, the green collar economy, make the point that there is work for everyone in this new economy. The carbon-based economy left too many people behind. There were no roles to play for too many unskilled people. We argue that the work that needs to be done to save the planet offers work for everyone, from the unskilled labourers to the tradespeople, the installation people, and the people who design and manufacture the new technology. The advantage is that Canada could be at the forefront. We could show the world. We would be a centre of excellence for how to survive in a relatively harsh northern climate using less energy and using it smarter and better. Those are the messages of hope and inspiration that we were hoping to see and that were noticeably absent during the budget debate throughout this whole period of time.

I said that I would only deal with two of the shortcomings of this budget in what little time I had. I think it is important to address some of the other issues, one of which I dealt with a group over the lunch period just today. One of the public service unions, PIPSC, came to me to make a representation on behalf of their members.

I suspect it is appalled really at why the government would use this economic crisis as an opportunity to advance some of its own political ideology as it pertains to pay equity, to the civil service and the compensation of the civil service. It is confusing to many of us when the November fiscal update was introduced how freezing the wages of civil servants is going to stimulate the economy. That was a big of a mystery to all of us and I think one of the key things that threw the opposition parties into each other's arms to form a coalition.

As well, we are confused as to how balking on pay equity and removing the right of women to challenge pay equity, and making it a bargaining issue instead would somehow stimulate the economy. These things read like a neo-conservative wish list. Instead of legitimate economic measures to stimulate the economy, we had a wish list of outdated Conservative ideology, I might add, that was being foisted on Canadians.

It makes me wonder if the reluctance of the Conservatives to invite President Obama to address both houses of Parliament might be--

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order. We have to move on to questions and comments. The hon. member for Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe.

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Liberal

Brian Murphy Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Speaker, I have a great deal of respect for my friend from the NDP. I ask him though at this time to sort of search his soul and have him tell me if it is not true that the budget that we are assessing this evening has more of a Galbraith-Roosevelt feel to it than a Friedman-Flanagan feeling to it. And whether in fact he thinks that it was at all conceivable that a year ago the government would ever come up with such a budget, would ever say yes to the inevitable stimulus funding that is in the budget, had it not been for the threat of failure and the final opening of its eyes to the good small l liberal ways of budgeting that have served this country so well?

Is it not the combined opposition, and in particular the articulateness of the Liberal side, that brought the little leprechaun who poses as our Minister of Finance to see his pot of gold.

I am Irish. That cannot be an insult. Does he not see that this--

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order. I think that allusion caused a little bit of disorder in the House and the hon. member might want to withdraw it. I do not know what some cultures think about leprechauns, but I do not know if it is an appropriate way to describe a member.