House of Commons Hansard #24 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was workers.

Topics

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of yelling going on in the House today when members ask their questions. I appreciate that. I do not know if Canadians appreciate it, however.

I guess his question was, what are doing? In the economic action plan just passed, we have extended the benefits for the work-sharing program, which I talked about in my speech.

I am on the finance committee, and we had meetings with various people. Over and over again, we heard how good the work-sharing program was. However, the problem with it was we needed an extension. We have extended the work-sharing program to 52 weeks to help employers and employees get through these tough economic times.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am directing this to the Conservative member. His speech is completely out of touch with reality. They should have consulted the workers' unions, but in Quebec the Conservatives did not consult any labour representatives. So I do not feel bad about belittling their phony consultations that have lead them to introduce such a bill.

The NDP motion is interesting: it reflects the position of Quebec, the Canadian Labour Congress and more than 2 million workers in Canada.

When the member says that their consultations are an accurate reflection of working people, he is completely out of touch with reality and he needs to realize that.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I disagree with the premise of that question. I will give a specific example. The organization representing forestry workers across the country, and we hear a lot about forestry workers in Quebec, came to see us to talk about work-sharing and how it worked for them.

However, they need an extension. That is exactly what we did. We listened and acted, which is what is different about this government compared with past governments. We hear, listen and take action. That is what our economic action plan does.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise and lead off the Liberal debate on this issue. I am also pleased to split my time with one of the more distinguished and articulate members of the House, the member for Beauséjour.

This is an important motion. It deals with a critical component of Canada's social infrastructure, employment insurance. EI has been a vital part of our social safety net for generations. We all know it has undergone significant change in the past two decades. The fact is EI as we know it now is untested for the kind of difficult economic times we currently face.

I support the intent and spirit of this motion; that is I agree the government has failed Canadian workers who have lost their jobs and it has failed to make the necessary changes to EI that the times demand.

The events of the past few months are very troubling. This is a government that is adrift. The government has mismanaged this economy throughout the process.

From last summer, when we started to see significant problems, the government put politics before people. Conservatives called an election and they produced an economic update. The only thing that stimulated was political uncertainty. Then they shut down Parliament. We all assumed they had learned from that experience and they did produce a budget that was markedly better than the junk that we saw in November. However, there are huge issues of difference between us and the Conservatives, and they are on a short leash.

One of those areas is EI. As a social investment, it is necessary. As a support for families, it is vital. Even as stimulus, a number of learned economists and academics have indicated that EI may be the best way to stimulate the economy. I refer to a study to which Ian Lee from the Sprott School of Business referred. The study was done for the senate in the United States on ranking different types of stimulus, infrastructure, tax cuts. It found that:

—Unemployment Insurance came out on top at one-point-six-one, which meant for every dollar dispersed to somebody unemployed, it generates a dollar-sixty-one of economic.

That is a pretty good stimulus.

We expected the budget would offer real solutions to help stimulate the economy, particularly as it related to EI. We expected big things for a couple of reasons. For one, the minister was suggesting quite proudly that she was going to do big things with EI as a means to help Canadians and to stimulate this economy.

Chris Hopkins from P.E.I. has been advocating for some time that self-employed persons need to be part of the EI system. However, Canadians were expecting more action.

I would like to quote from the Caledon Institute's report called “The Red Ink Budget”, which came out recently:

Despite a growing clamour from across Canadian society to bolster and expand Employment Insurance, the 2009 Budget chose only to temporarily improve matters for the minority of the unemployed who meet existing work requirements....

This is the major shortcoming of the Budget in respect of offsetting some of the most serious consequences of the recession for ordinary Canadians.... If unemployment levels climb much higher, substantial numbers of the unemployed will have no other option than welfare - a much worse program than Employment Insurance.

The government failed. We expected this. We did not get it. The government could have brought in measures that would have increased access to EI, to people who otherwise did not qualify. It could have eliminated the two week waiting period. It could have extended the length of benefits. It could have based benefits on the best 12 weeks. It could have standardized benefits nationally. It could have eliminated distinctions between new and re-entrants. It could have increased the maximum insurable earnings. It could have boosted allowable earnings.

There are a number of things, but the government failed to use the EI system to really make a difference for Canadians. On top of that, it ignored another very serious issue, which is wait times.

Each day my office hears stories from Canadians across the country, who have to wait to get their EI cheques. On December 19 last year, I wrote the minister about the news we were getting from constituents, not just in my riding, but across the country. They were being told the processing time for claims had gone well beyond the 28 days for 80% of applicants, that it was closer to 40 days. I have yet to hear back from the minister.

Now others are realizing how right we were. I refer to an editorial in the Halifax Chronicle-Herald this week. The headline was “EI backlog needs fast fix”. It states:

In any case, the jobless have bigger problems than getting the government to cushion the first two weeks of their unemployment. They're having trouble receiving timely benefit cheques, period.

Also from the Herald this week was the headline “Late EI payments to Atlantic Canadians unacceptable” said the Leader of the Opposition who was in Nova Scotia for the AGM.

Therefore, somebody is aware of this in the House. Other members in the House have spoken about this as well. The member for Madawaska—Restigouche, the member for Don Valley East and the member for Cape Breton—Canso have stood up. In fact, they are the only champions on that because they are not getting much support from the minister.

Canadian workers have earned these benefits through hard work and they have a right to those benefits when they need them, period. So unconcerned and so out of touch is the minister that she recently suggested she did not want to make EI “too lucrative”. I ask all my colleagues here if that is the type of thinking we expect from the minister responsible for EI.

I can see some of my more hon. colleagues on the other side are shocked by that. They cannot believe what the minister would say about unemployed Canadians.

The leadership for the unemployed workers is coming from the opposition benches. On the waiting times issue, the Liberals have asked that this be fixed.

We can make a difference for Canadians. The motion is not perfect by a long shot, but it sends a message. Let us not allow perfection to be the enemy of better. Let us make it better. Liberals want a stronger EI system, particularly in difficult times. Canadians in the next election will either choose a government that believes in a stronger EI system or they will choose the government they currently have.

Not only are some of the measures in motion worthy of consideration, but others as well. In fact, in the last election, and I will quote from last year's Liberal platform, we addressed the issue of wait times before it became a crisis. The member for Beauséjour may remember this. I think he was involved in the platform. In our platform we said:

A Liberal government will also commit to processing EI claims faster, guaranteeing that EI cheques get delivered no more than three weeks after a completed application is filed.

I also suggest that my colleague from Sydney—Victoria had a wonderful private member's bill in the last Parliament, which would have increased sick benefits from 15 weeks to 50 weeks. We heard from representatives of the Heart and Stroke Foundation, the Canadian Cancer Society, as well as representatives of workers, who said that this was not only a well-intentioned bill, it was sensible, good and timely. One of the positive things about our health care system is that people live longer after a heart attack. They live longer after they have suffered from cancer. However, they cannot get back to work in 15 weeks.

This is a solution through the EI system, and I applaud the member for Sydney—Victoria for the leadership he showed on that issue. Perhaps we should consider that as well. The government would do well to look at it and figure that part out. Every party in the House, with the exception of the Conservatives, supported that bill.

EI is not the only answer for tough times, but it is an essential component in providing support to Canada's workforce. I will vote for the motion and I hope it sends a strong message to the government that Canadians, who are losing their jobs in difficult times, deserve better.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, sometimes it is pretty hard to listen to Liberals say that if they were in power, we would not be in the mess we are in today. They are the ones who got us into this mess.

However, the member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour said he would support the motion. However, I remember, when we brought in a motion on the best 12 weeks, the Liberals said they would vote for it. Does he have the support of all Liberals? Will Liberals vote for this motion on Tuesday night?

Why did he say that it was a pretty good motion, but it needed some work? What part of the motion does he not like? Is it the 360 hours that hurts the Liberals, because they feel that it is too low, that people will have more access to EI?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, a number of parts of the motion make a lot of sense. I would not stand here today and tell the House which one of these things we will implement when we form a government, but I will say this. EI will be a central component of our campaign and of our government.

I remind my colleague, who is very passionate on this topic and I understand that, that every time in the last Parliament when a private member's bill or motion on EI came up, similar to the motion we are debating today, whether it was his Bill C-265 or Bill C-269 from my friend from the Bloc, Liberals voted for those. They did not vote because they were forced to do that. They voted because Liberals believe in employment insurance. We believe it is part of the social infrastructure of our country. Canadians will find out after the next election, if they choose, as I think they will, a Liberal government, that EI will be a central part of the reforms that we will bring to our country.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my friend from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour for his intervention. I believe the previous Liberal government served four terms, three majority terms and one minority term for a total of 13 years. I have a very simple question for this member. Over those 13 years, what specifically did the former Liberal government do to enhance EI benefits for Canadians?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals brought forward a number of benefits, including the best 14 weeks and a number of pilot projects in areas of high unemployment. I would remind him that we brought in the extended maternity benefits, as well.

I think all members have to keep in mind that when the Liberals formed the government last time, we faced a very bad economy. We picked up that economy and we had to fix the deficit from 1993 to 1997. We can look back at some of the measures and say, “I liked this, did not like this, liked this, did not like this,” but we fixed this economy. The Liberals are going to have to do it again and we are going to have to do it again pretty soon.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a simple question for my colleague.

Does he know that when they came to power in 1993, 88% of people who lost their jobs received employment insurance benefits and that when they lost power, this number had dropped to 39%?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Mr. Speaker, we can all look at the so-called reforms to EI and judge whether we liked them or not. The first big hit on the government began with the Mulroney government in 1990.

I would repeat again that I was not a member of the government in the 1990s. If I had been a member of the government, I do not have any reason to believe that I would have voted against the budgets because those budgets in fact brought stability to this country. It turned us from what the economists referred to as an economic basket case. In areas like social infrastructure, health, education, EI and other measures, we have to be able to afford those. When we could, we brought in things like the child tax benefit which is one of the most important things in keeping the rate of child poverty down.

I am very proud of what the Liberal government did. That does not mean I agreed with everything it did, but I applaud the people who put their back into it and made this country more secure, put it on a more economically solid footing, and gave us a chance to weather this Conservative recession.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Speaker, I want to begin by thanking my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour for sharing his time with me today in this important debate. He is a tireless advocate for improvements to social policy and has done a terrific job representing the Liberal Party on issues like employment insurance, child care and post-secondary education. I salute the hard work he has done on behalf of so many Canadians to improve these important programs.

I also want to thank my colleague from the NDP, the hon. member for Hamilton Mountain, for moving this very important motion today in the House of Commons. Like the hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, I will support it in the vote next week. Employment insurance remains a key issue, not only for people who lose their jobs but also for people who are trying to find ways to stimulate the Canadian economy in such difficult times.

The wording of the motion is very important because it addresses a number of issues that affect people who really depend on employment insurance to survive difficult economic situations or who are seasonally employed. I want to salute the people in my riding of Beauséjour who have worked so hard for years to improve employment insurance. I am thinking in particular of a committee of employers and employees in some seasonal industries, especially in the Cap-Pelé area but also in other parts of my riding. This committee worked with me and with the previous Liberal government to make improvements to the system. My colleague referred a little while ago to some of these pilot projects, for example basing the system on the 14 best weeks in the previous 52. This was a change for which people like Rodrigue Landry, Ronald LeBlanc, Aline Landry, Aurélia Denelle, and the former mayor of Cap-Pelé, Normand Vautour, worked very hard, trying to make changes that helped seasonal workers and also helped employers have workers. For example, these improvements enabled people to earn 40% of their employment insurance benefits without being penalized. This encouraged them to accept all available work. Five weeks were also added to deal with a difficult situation known as the black hole.

The challenge now is to make these pilot projects a permanent part of the Employment Insurance Act. That is what the Liberal Party promised. There was a formal commitment to make these pilot projects, which we developed several years ago, a permanent part of the act. I thought that was a good start toward improving the system. The government, though, simply tried to extend the pilot projects, which has caused a lot of uncertainty in these industries and among their workers. That is very regrettable.

The current economic situation requires some other improvements to employment insurance as well.

The two week waiting period, as some of my colleagues before have explained, and like the member for Acadie—Bathurst who explained it well, is not a two week waiting period. It is known as a waiting period, but in fact it is two weeks where the person who is applying for benefits will have no revenue. The person will have no income support for those two weeks. It is sort of like a deductible in an insurance policy, but they are a very punitive two weeks.

These people are not rich. For them to have no income for two weeks means that when they finally get their benefits, often 8 or 10 weeks later because of the backlog and failure to process the applications in time, they are massively behind in their bills. They are buying groceries on credit and are behind in paying the hydro bill or other bills. The two week waiting period needs to be reduced or eliminated. Workers' compensation regimes have perhaps a three day period. Why should employment insurance have 14 days?

The real issue, on top of that unfairness, is this horrible delay that people encounter now. MPs get calls in their constituency offices and hear of horrible examples where people are kicked out of apartments because they cannot pay rent due to waiting 55 days to receive an employment insurance benefit.

There is an organization in Shediac, in my riding, called Vestiaire Saint-Joseph. It is a food bank that serves hundreds of needy families in my region. The volunteers who work at Vestiaire Saint-Joseph often tell me that, because of the delays in employment insurance, families have to come to the food bank to get something to eat. This is an injustice that must be corrected.

Something should be done as well to deal with the regional rates issue.

There is a variable rate in terms of access. The number of hours that are needed to have access to employment insurance, or the number of weeks of benefits one would have depending on where that one happened to live, or what the unemployment rate might be in that particular census district, leads to great unfairness.

Let me use an example of somebody who lives in a suburb of Moncton called Lakeville. That individual goes to work 20 minutes down the road at a fish plant in Cap-Pelé or Shediac and works side by side with somebody who happens to live in the village where the fish processing plant is located. The person who commutes 20 minutes a day would need two or three times the number of hours to access employment insurance and that individual's benefits would last for a much shorter period of time, yet that individual worked side by side every day for the whole time he or she was qualifying for employment insurance.

The variable rate does not reflect labour force mobility in today's economy. If individuals go from my community to work in Fort McMurray and get laid off, as many people have in that particular area in the last number of months, and they then return to New Brunswick, they could benefit from an employment insurance regime different than that from the people they worked side by side with every day in Fort McMurray. That no longer makes sense in the economy of today.

That is why I think it is a great idea to reduce the number of hours required for EI. The NDP has suggested this. My colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour and a number of others in our Quebec caucus have worked hard to try to reduce the number of hours required by part-time workers, new Canadians, thousands of workers in Ontario who find themselves losing their jobs because of the difficult economic circumstances and the neglect of the government to act. These individuals are unable to access employment insurance because of a regime which no longer reflects the economy of today. I very much support the effort to reduce the number of hours required for employment insurance.

Self-employed Canadians should be eligible for employment insurance benefits, particularly parental leave benefits, sickness benefits, or compassionate care leave. The previous Liberal government increased the number of weeks one could have with respect to parental leave. We tried to bring in a compassionate care leave provision. These were important improvements that were made in employment insurance. We can go further.

My colleague from Sydney—Victoria, who happens to share this desk in the House of Commons with me, has brought forward an important bill that would extend the number of weeks for people in the case of a serious illness.

My colleague from Madawaska—Restigouche also introduced bills to reduce the waiting period and to make employment insurance available to parents who have to take a child to the children’s hospital in Halifax because there are no similar facilities in New Brunswick. Parents who accompany their children to Halifax are deprived of employment insurance. I think improvements can be made here.

I will be supporting this motion with considerable enthusiasm because it highlights the government's failure to improve employment insurance. Adding five weeks at the end of a claim would not be as important as removing the two weeks at the beginning where an individual is punished, or dealing with the five, six, seven, sometimes ten weeks of delay in receiving benefits or improving accessibility. We will continue to work on these issues.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Beauséjour for his speech. My only problem is that while it would be great if what he is suggesting could be achieved, the fact is that the Liberals have formed the government in the past. My question is this.

He agreed with me that for the workers in my riding and those in Beauséjour who work in fish plants, the best 12 weeks of earnings should be used to file an employment insurance claim. Can the member explain to my why, in June 2005, under the Paul Martin government, he voted against this motion for the 12 best weeks, although some Liberals voted to support such a measure? He is now trying to say that the Liberals will save everyone. The hon. member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour really let the cat out of the bag earlier. In 1994, there was a financial problem, but was it really right to attack the workers who had lost their jobs? Are the Liberals any better than the Conservatives? That is my question.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst raised the question of the best weeks. In his region, like in Cape Breton and Newfoundland and Labrador, where the unemployment rate tends to be very high, people need the best 12 weeks. I will support a motion that refers to the best 12 weeks as the divisor, and I will gladly vote in favour of the NDP motion on Tuesday.

My hon. colleague referred to the situation in 2005. In 2005, at the request of the seasonal workers' and employers' committee in my region, and by working with other members of the Liberal caucus, the Liberal government made a major improvement to the system by basing the calculation on the best 14 out of 52 weeks. The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst repeatedly talked about 12 weeks.

The day we successfully obtained the best 14 weeks, the seasonal workers' committee in my riding organized a party to celebrate this significant achievement. I commend the former government for having improved the employment insurance system in this way.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to hear our Liberal colleagues say that they will vote for this motion. However, I cannot help but feel a little skeptical.

A motion in the House on an opposition day is a motion of intention. It is an invitation. It says “in the opinion of the House”, so it is not binding on the government. It is, however, a very strong message to the government urging it to proceed.

The Bloc Québécois introduced Bill C-308, which reiterates the motion's objectives almost entirely. Will our Liberal friends support it? This time, will they see this through and ask the Prime Minister to give the royal recommendation, which has been his objection thus far? Will they see it through this time?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc Liberal Beauséjour, NB

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Chambly—Borduas talked about Bloc bills relating to employment insurance.

During the last Parliament, we supported bills. I understand the distinction he is making between an opposition motion and a bill. During the last Parliament, I personally supported the Bloc bill to improve employment insurance.

I also intend to support Bill C-308 because it puts pressure on the government to do something now. What I find so deplorable is that the Conservatives will bring up technicalities to prevent this bill from being passed at third reading during the final vote.

I want to assure my Bloc colleague that the most important thing is that the next government, a Liberal government, will table a budget in the House that improves employment insurance. We will deal with the two week waiting period and we will improve employment insurance for people who depend on it when they lose their jobs, which is what is happening because of this economic crisis.

I look forward to the day when we have a Liberal government that will make employment insurance a priority, as my colleague said, and will continue to improve not only the benefits paid, but also access to benefits, which is a critical problem in many regions of the country.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

11:40 a.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank my colleague from Hamilton Mountain on proposing this motion this morning.

The debate we are holding today could be called “the dignity or deceit debate”. Allow me to explain. When I refer to dignity, I am talking about the dignity we need to give the unemployed, who did not choose to lose their jobs. When I refer to deceit, I am talking about how, since the early 1990s, the unemployed have been robbed of the tool the government created to support people who lose their jobs: the employment insurance fund.

The employment insurance fund used to be called the unemployment fund. The unemployment insurance program paid benefits to people who lost their jobs. That program was changed and given a new look. We did not want that change. Two successive federal governments changed that concept, in order to use the program in a different way.

As I said, the employment insurance fund is the only tool the unemployed have. Workers and their employers are the only contributors to this fund, which will help workers if they are unfortunate enough to lose their jobs. That is why the EI fund is also known as an insurance policy. I will not go on too long about this. I just wanted to remind this House about the nature of this tool.

This tool is structured to cover unforeseen circumstances. The unemployment rate is sometimes very high. Depending on the region, it has sometimes fluctuated between 8% and 9%, and it has reached 18% in some areas. There are even places where it has climbed to over 20%. Every time, the fund has fulfilled its commitments to the unemployed. Today, contributions are $1.73 per $100, but they have been as high as $3.20 per $100. When unemployment was higher, contributions automatically increased. Sometimes, the government came to the rescue for brief periods when contributions were not enough to cover benefits. But each time, the fund paid the government back.

In the mid 1980s, the Auditor General said that it might be a good idea to move the fund to the national budget, so it could be administered along with it. The accounting of it has, however, always been separate in order to meet obligations. The recommendation was made in 1985-86. In 1988 or 1989, the government accepted the recommendation.

Things became complicated when Canada found itself with an exponentially growing debt. When the Conservatives arrived on the scene, I think the Canadian government debt amounted to $93 billion. While the Conservatives were in office, they drove the debt to a little over $500 billion. Shortly before, Mr. Trudeau and his government had also contributed significantly to increasing the country's debt. This lack of concern over controlling the debt gave rise to public pressure, and the government had to do something.

Instead of looking for new sources of funding, however, the government dipped into a source not intended for the purpose. Beginning in the 1990s, the Conservatives began dipping into the fund. Subsequently, the Liberals made substantial use of it to the point that, by 1997, the fund had generated a surplus of $7 billion. Incredible.

And how did the fund generate a surplus of over $7 billion? The Liberals limited the conditions of eligibility so that accessibility to the plan, which was capable of providing benefits to 88% of people who had lost their job, was limited to 40% of the unemployed. According to the human resources department, the figure now is 46%.

This spells disaster for people who lose their job, their family, the regions and the provinces concerned, such as Quebec. The approach is totally disgraceful. The government paid off the debt little by little by appallingly taxing people who lost their job. They were denied a source of income that would provide a living for them, to the tune, today, of $57 billion. This is money taken from the employment insurance fund.

That is unacceptable. I find it hard to understand how the two major national parties are so comfortable with this situation. Not only are they comfortable with it, but they created it, are perpetuating it and continue to defend it. It is a huge swindle.

In legal terms, the Supreme Court ruled on it and said that, technically, the government was entitled to do what it was doing, because it had the power to collect taxes in different ways. This is one approach. Technically, the Supreme Court said it could. Ethically and in terms of its justice, however, should we tolerate this situation and allow it to continue—justice being our first concern—or should we not change tack today and correct the situation?

The deceit continues. Yesterday's vote on Bill C-10 will not correct the situation. With this budget, the two major parties have given the government the green light to keep contributions to employment insurance at their lowest level since 1982. What does that mean. It means that the government is putting a lock on any possibility of improving the employment insurance plan. Things are now twice as difficult.

We listened to our Liberal friends this morning. I am pleased with what they said but I am not pleased about what they did yesterday. It makes us skeptical about their discourse. Are they aware that what they are saying today cannot be taken to its logical conclusion without turning around and authorizing increases in contributions to keep step with needs, especially in an economic downturn such as the one we are experiencing now.

That would be quite in step with the recommendations made by groups concerned. These groups are the employers who also contribute to the fund, and the unemployed or the unions. We have to improve the employment insurance system and improve its accessibility.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills Development, Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities, in a December 2004 report completed in February 2005, made 28 recommendations, including the measures proposed in this morning's motion. Thus, both governments, the previous Liberal government and then the Conservative government, did not follow through. They found all manner of subterfuges to not follow through. That is also a form of deceit. There is no getting around it. It is a serious economic crime.

Every riding is out an average of $30 million annually. Not only does this impoverish the unemployed, it impoverishes their families, the regions, the provinces and, as I was saying earlier, Quebec. In the end, people contributed to an employment insurance fund in order to have an income if they had the misfortune of losing their job. But they do not get their money because Ottawa is holding it back. Thus, the province has to step in and support these people who do not have an income. At that point, welfare kicks in. The same people pay twice for a service provided by their province even though the latter should not have that responsibility. But it is forced to assume it because the federal government has sloughed it off. And the fiscal imbalance increases even further.

Thus, responsibility rests with the two major parties, as I mentioned earlier.

I will begin the second part of my speech by referring to something which most of our mothers have probably told us. In any case, it is something that my mother often said to me: “My boy, if you are not able to keep your word, if you are not able to honour your signature, if you dishonour your family, then of course you dishonour yourself”. In this Parliament, there are parties that have not honoured their commitments, not kept their word, and not honoured their signature.

I will give two examples. Let us take the Liberal Party. During the election campaign, it made a formal commitment, hand on heart, to help to ensure that this Parliament adopts measures to make employment insurance more accessible and to eliminate the waiting period—a formal commitment. In a joint platform signed by the three opposition parties on December 1, 2008—three months ago—the Liberal Party undertook to ensure that the program for older worker adjustment, POWA, was restored, that the waiting period was eliminated, and that the employment insurance fund would henceforth be used only to assist unemployed persons. This was barely three months ago. The Liberal Party’s vote yesterday on Bill C-10 is flatly contrary to that—three months later. Therefore that party has not kept its word, not honoured its signature.

As a result, the other opposition parties are very much afraid that they will be unable to depend on the word and the signature of the Liberal Party. Under the circumstances, given that this motion expresses an opinion to the government, that it is not binding on the government and does not create any constraints, we are very skeptical that the Liberal Party will again honour to the end its signature and its commitment.

It is very important to continue this debate and to continue to focus on the behaviour of the Liberal Party, to make sure that it understands that the three opposition parties form the majority and that they have a mandate from the population to see to it that the Conservatives do not act as if they were the majority and do not continue to implement their ideological decisions and programs. That should be the framework of the Liberals at this time. We have a responsibility. The mandate the people have given the majority opposition is to keep an eye on the government and ensure that the programs proposed are actually carried out. That is why we were elected.

In December, the coalition’s platform was created on the basis of these programs. The opposition parties looked in their programs for points in common, constituting a platform which would gradually take us out of the economic crisis. The objective was to kick-start the economy, so that in four years we might again have a balanced budget with a deficit of $23 to $27 billion during this period, with a very specific program.

There is something here that does not respect electors' wishes. The Liberals’ behaviour denies us the mandate we have been given. This I stress very strongly—more so than the content of the employment insurance program. For it will determine the way things turn out. If the Liberals are not going to honour their commitment to the end, we will never be able to rectify the employment insurance program. This injustice must be corrected.

This injustice can be corrected, formally, by voting for two bills, among others, which the Bloc Québécois has already introduced. That is why we are pleased that the NDP is joining us on this platform. I refer to Bill C-241 introduced by my colleague from Brome—Missisquoi, which concerns the elimination of the waiting period and which, incidentally, does not create enormous costs since these are only administrative expenses and there is no addition to the number of weeks.

We must therefore carry this through to the end and vote in favour of Bill C-241, which is presently in second reading. We must also vote in favour of Bill C-308 which it has been my honour to introduce myself, and which covers all the other elements of today’s motion so as to make the employment insurance system more accessible and improve it in a manner that respects the dignity of unemployed Canadians.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

Noon

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Speaker, I would first like to thank the member for Chambly—Borduas for all his work. I have known him, and he has sat in the House, for a number of years now. He has seen everything. He has seen the Liberals in office and he has seen the Conservatives in office. We do wonder about people's sincerity.

I liked it when he said that his mother had told him that if he did not honour his signature, he brought dishonour on the family. That is just what has happened in the House of Commons with the Liberals and Conservatives. And yet, we cannot blame the Liberals, because they always stepped up to say certain things. In my opinion, that is not much help. These people have to find work.

They do not support the employment insurance system because they have never voted in favour of it. They never pretended they were in favour of it. At least they are honest in this regard.

The Liberals say they are willing to make changes here and there.

I heard the member say earlier that the Conservatives had dipped into the employment insurance fund. It was the Liberals who snatched the employment insurance fund, and the Conservatives who legalized it, after the fact.

Does he agree with me that that is exactly what happened? They took money from the most vulnerable. They convinced themselves that workers were dependent on the employment insurance fund.

Does my colleague agree with me that it is the government that is dependent on the employment insurance fund because they lined their coffers with $57 billion from that fund?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Madam Speaker, please excuse me. I lose my voice sometimes. I was having difficulty speaking earlier. I apologize. It is a minor problem with my vocal cords, nothing more.

I thank my colleague, who is doing a remarkable job, as well, and I recognize that he has consistently defended the unemployed and, in fact all workers. He is quite right, because what happened is irregular and abnormal. However, the government wanted to normalize its action, and no one is bothered by it anymore.

This morning I was happy and somewhat relieved to hear my colleague from Acadie—Bathurst go on the offensive and get angry at the situation. Few people are bothered by it, because what was totally abnormal and unfair is now normal. What the Liberals and Conservatives did is not right and they are continuing to do it. It is not right, not fair and causes families to suffer.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Blackstrap Saskatchewan

Conservative

Lynne Yelich ConservativeMinister of State (Western Economic Diversification)

Madam Speaker, I was just thinking of people in my riding who have been talking about employment insurance, people who work in small and medium size businesses. They have some of concerns about the increase in premiums. They find it very difficult with the different taxes and deductions they have to match.

I want to know if the member has any response to, for example, the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association, which says it supports the government and the steps it is taking to ensure unemployed Canadians have access to the EI benefits they need without increasing the cost to employers. I am wondering if the member understands the difficulties businesses and employers have when premiums go up, and whether those difficulties are acknowledged in some of the suggestions he is making for the changes he desires.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Madam Speaker, that is a good question, but we have to look at the big picture. We have to realize that the crisis is not just affecting workers; it is affecting merchants and business people and so on. That is why any measures to help these people have to take their reality into account.

For example, tax credits do not help businesses that are barely surviving and not making a profit. Even so, that is what the government chose to do. With this budget, the government will be helping big corporations that are making a profit. That is the real issue here.

I happen to know about the restaurant sector because I worked in it for a while and I know how unstable it can be.

The question my colleague should be asking is this: Has the Conservative Party failed to understand that cutting taxes for big companies will not help small restaurant operators like the people she just talked about?

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Luc Desnoyers Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Chambly—Borduas for his excellent presentation. Once again, the minister of state has made it clear just how out of touch the Conservatives are. They are talking about businesses instead of talking about the people affected by this crisis: the working men and women who suffer every day, who grow poorer day by day, who cannot, on a daily basis, make ends meet for their families.

The NDP motion is a response to the demands of over two million workers. The members of the Canadian Labour Congress have been making these demands for a long time. I do not know who the Conservatives consulted, but I am concerned because they clearly did not consult the workers affected by the crisis.

I would like to ask my colleague a question about job creation. Currently, massive layoffs are happening everywhere: in parts manufacturing, in aerospace, and in automobile and bus manufacturing. As my colleague pointed out, programs like POWA and work sharing can help workers and employers make it through the crisis because workers are the ones with the expertise. That is my question for my colleague.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Rivière-des-Mille-Îles. He is doing excellent work. He is a young member and he is already making his mark in his riding, where he is certainly appreciated.

His question is very relevant. First of all, there are two parts to his question. I want to confirm that no one from any of the groups I meet with—the unemployed, unions or others—has been consulted. I have personally met all these people over the past months and they were not consulted. There were a privileged few, but never an organization as such.

As for the other point, he is completely right. The program for older worker adjustment, which was in place from 1988 to 1997, cost only $17 million at the time and would cost the Canadian government $45 million. It would help all workers over the age of 55 who lose their jobs and cannot find another one. People are not lazy. Those who can find a job will work, but some of them cannot find jobs. Both employers and workers are asking that this program be reinstated because employers are concerned about their workers' futures. When someone has given years, dozens of years, of service to a company, that company does not want to see the worker go to live in poverty.

The work sharing program must be adapted so that it is easier to access. I have had to intervene so that more businesses could access it. It is a program that needs to be perfected, but it is very useful. On that note, I would like to point out that we are available to help make it more accessible, as long as the government is also willing to do its part.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:10 p.m.

NDP

John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Nanaimo—Cowichan.

We are in the midst of a major economic crisis and the livelihood of millions of Canadians is at risk. Hundreds of thousands of people with jobs in forestry, general and automotive manufacturing, media, information technology and the service industry have felt the pain of being laid off or losing their jobs in the last few months. Sadly, the finance minister has said this will continue for quite some time. Yet for the last decade we have seen assistance for these workers become harder to obtain, to the point that only about 30% of the workers who pay into the employment insurance fund can draw from it when they need to. With an EI fund surplus in the tens of billions of dollars, this injustice must stop.

The government, among its many unprincipled and wrong-headed decisions, has chosen to give $60 billion in tax cuts to Canada's most profitable companies instead of giving a few hundred dollars to struggling families. It claims to want to help the economy by putting money into Canadians' pockets, but it does absolutely everything in its power to ensure that it does the opposite for Canadians who need the money the most. The government feels no shame.

All working Canadians and every company that employs them must pay into the EI fund. This money is there for workers. It is insurance in case they lose their employment. It is there to help families keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. However, the money is not being used in this manner. It is sitting there in a fund gathering dust as working families suffer.

The government has a moral obligation to make these funds flow into the pockets of hard-working Canadians who put it there but who now need it in this time of crisis. This money could help forestry workers, the tens of thousands of whom have been laid off from their jobs. More than a million Canadian jobs are linked to the forestry industry. In the last five years the forestry sector has lost 40,000 jobs. More than 4,000 forestry workers were laid off in the last month alone. Today another 500 have been laid off in Nova Scotia, and they have to wait two weeks without income to get employment insurance, if they are among the lucky 30% or so who even qualify. Mills have closed or shut down on a temporary basis right across the country, even in Prince Edward Island.

The forestry crisis is a national crisis and the government has ignored the difficulties for far too long. Now is the time to eliminate the two week waiting period. Now is the time to reduce the qualifying period to a minimum of 360 hours of work regardless of any regional rate of unemployment. Now is the time to allow self-employed workers to participate in this plan. Now is the time to raise the benefits to 60% and base benefit rates on the best 12 weeks in the qualifying period. Now is the time to encourage training and retraining.

There are more ominous signs on the horizon for my riding. The government says it is the champion of small business, but nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I am going to talk about a couple of examples where the government is hindering employment and employment opportunities and potentially creating unemployment.

Of the two most recent examples in my riding, the first is a manufacturing company that has been in business for 40 years and is ready to expand. Yes, in this time of recession, it is ready to expand. That company could hire 35 more workers, highly skilled workers who live right in my riding and who are unemployed right now. They could be working if credit were freed up.

I received a notice in the mail the other day that the interest rate is going up at my bank, and the Bank of Canada rate is sitting at half of one percentage point. There is a real disconnect there. This is something the government could do something about.

The second is a company that distributes a product right across North America, but the product is not manufactured anywhere in North America. In fact, this company holds the North American patent on this product. Last month the company was told by the government that it now has to pay duties of 170% on this product. This is a product, I will emphasize again, that is made nowhere in North America and this distribution company holds the patent on it. Now the company has to pay 170%.

I talked to the owner of the company. When this business closes or when it moves to Minnesota, 18 people in that company will be looking for work. It is an export company. Most of its exports go to the United States. This is a good solid company in my riding, and now it is in danger of closing or having to move to another country.

Let me go back to forestry for one second to show how dire the circumstances are for the workers in my riding and, I would suggest, right across the entire country.

The word the other day from Northern Hardwoods in Thunder Bay was that it will turn off the heat and lights. There are two stages when a company decides to close its business. The first stage is the company shuts down, either temporarily or for a longer indefinite period of time. The second stage is when the company makes a decision to turn off the heat and electricity. The reason that is such a drastic step is it will cost tens of millions of dollars to get that mill back up and running. Sensitive computer equipment and all sorts of other equipment and the structure itself begin to deteriorate when the heat and the electricity are turned off. That is what the company announced a couple of days ago. There are more and more companies right across Canada and indeed North America that are facing the same situation.

I ask the government to heed the call of this motion very carefully. In my riding, in fact right across northern Ontario, we have been in a recession for three or four years now. This is nothing new to us. We are a strong bunch. We will struggle and we will continue. However, when we have a situation where people who have paid into an insurance fund are unable to access it, or have to wait two weeks, or there is no plan for training or retraining, it is disastrous for the smaller communities in my riding.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Madam Speaker, my colleague speaks with passion with regard to the needs of our communities in the north and across Canada as a whole, given the fact that we have seen so much job loss.

The Conservatives talk about retraining. We are not sure who will actually train these people, given that so many jobs have been lost. What is of interest is that last night during an interview, the Conservatives said that people who are unemployed do not need the money when they are first laid off, that they need it after.

I want to ask the member if he thinks that the government of the day should actually decide how someone's budget works and when a person needs the money.

Opposition Motion -- Employment InsuranceBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

NDP

John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right. Along with all the problems that someone faces when he or she loses his or her job, it is a horrible situation for the person's family as well. When the major bread earner loses his or her employment, it can be devastating for the family. The last thing a person needs to worry about is where those two weeks of employment insurance will come from and how he or she will continue to feed, clothe and house the children and try to carry on at least in a normal sense until the he or she can begin searching for other work. It makes much more sense to eliminate the two week waiting period.