House of Commons Hansard #58 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was nations.

Topics

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

8:55 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Chair, speaking of rabbits, I contacted the minister's office. It is convenient, since the Minister of National Revenue is also the Minister of State (Agriculture).

A rabbit producer filed her tax return in 2006. She received money from the Canadian farm families options program. In 2007, she earned the same income, but she indicated she had $100,000 in RRSPs. She did not take the money out of the RRSPs; she had simply worked hard to save that amount. The Canada Revenue Agency, however, refused to help her with any form of compensation through the Canadian farm families options program.

She has been fighting for it for a year and a half. They have been arguing back and forth. Although she had earned $100,000 and put that money into RRSPs, what does that have to do with the Canadian farm families options program, knowing that she did not earn any more in 2007 than she did in 2006? Could you help this woman and ask the Canada Revenue Agency to review her application so she may be compensated, as in past years?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, I will be honest right up front and tell the member opposite I have no more clout with the Canada Revenue Agency than she does, but certainly I can speak to my colleague to find out the particulars. If the member would care to send those, certainly we will take a look at it.

I know there were guidelines and formulas within the farm families options program that talked about overall net worth. Maybe that is the sticking point, where they included the $100,000 of RRSPs. The argument, then, as to whether they should have or should not have would be a Revenue Canada argument, not necessarily one for us. However, I would be happy to take that to my colleague if the member cares to send me all the particulars.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Chair, I asked the minister the question because it has to do with agriculture. As we know, agriculture has seen a number of crises involving pork, beef and so on. This woman does not want to be at the mercy of a crisis involving rabbits.

I would like to come back to the listeriosis crisis in Quebec and the importation of contaminated cheese.

Can the minister verify that no cases of listeriosis P93 were confirmed outside of Quebec?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, of course, the member opposite would recognize or realize that the listeriosis in cheese situation in Quebec was at provincially registered plants. They did ask for us to do some testing at the CFIA level to do comparisons.

As to that particular strain, I am not aware of it anywhere else in Canada. It is possible, but off the top of the top of my head, I do not know. We will seek to find that out for the member, concerning that particular strain.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Chair, I remember that the committee asked the minister if the government intended to hire inspectors. He said yes. The committee wanted to know how many inspectors were to be hired and where they were to be posted. The members even asked for a list.

The minister has not yet provided that list. Can the minister provide the list of people hired? I am not interested in their names or their salaries; I want to know where they are posted. Are there more of them in Winnipeg, in Montreal or in Ontario? It would be interesting to find out if there are enough inspectors to make sure that we do not have another listeriosis outbreak.

People died. My colleague, Francine Lalonde, caught listeriosis in hospital and, since I quite like her, I would not want her to join the ranks of the 20 dead.

That is why it is so important for the minister to tell us that he hired inspectors and that they are on site, competent and doing good work.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Absolutely, Mr. Chair, and of course, we will be hiring more and more as the need increases and we ask the CFIA to do more work. To date, under the current government, we have hired some 207 inspectors. That ups the number by about 14% to what it was originally.

My colleague, the president of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, assures me that the list has gone to the committee, to the best of her knowledge. We will double-check that.

We can give a regional breakdown, but we cannot give specifics as to where Joe Smith works, due to privacy situations. However, we can certainly give a breakdown as to what is available in Quebec.

It is a mobile workforce, as we see a need. For example, with regard to the listeriosis in cheese in Quebec, of course there is no one from the CFIA on those sites, but a number of people were sent in to help with that particular outbreak, doing lab tests, and so forth, back in the labs themselves, which are in other locations.

We will seek that list for the member.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member has 30 seconds left, enough time for a 15-second question and a 15-second answer.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Bloc

France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC

Mr. Chair, I will talk quickly about organic products.

More and more, farms in Quebec are producing organic products. The government has unveiled a new logo for organic products and a standard Canada Organic Regime designation, but certified products from other countries will be allowed to use the same logo as Canadian organic products.

Will the minister go back to the drawing board and come up with a proper policy so that consumers are no longer misled and we do justice to Quebec producers?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Absolutely, Mr. Chair, the organic sector is an exciting new growth industry. We are seeing global recognition of it. We want to make sure that our regulations parallel what is done by other countries so that we do not add costs to our producers.

If anyone, in Quebec's case, goes beyond that benchmark, good for them. It will help them market their product.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

I should remind hon. members to refrain from using the second person and proper names of members of Parliament.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure to be here tonight and to speak about agriculture and the main estimates. Being a farmer myself, it gives me I think maybe a different meaning than for some. Not all of us can be in agriculture but I am very proud of my background.

I will concentrate my comments tonight mainly on the subject of country of origin labelling.

Farming is the backbone of the Canadian economy and it is by far the most important industry in my riding of Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound. Knowing this, I am very pleased that the government, our Minister of Agriculture and all us have worked hard to try to put farmers first when developing agriculture policy.

Agriculture is a very progressive, innovative and, in most recent years, a very competitive industry. This industry has billions of dollars in sales.

As hon. members know, country of origin labelling, or COOL as it is commonly known, is impacting a number of sectors across the agriculture industry. We have already seen that it caused a plummet in weanling prices for our hog producers last year due to the uncertainty and fear among U.S. buyers. The impact is particularly hard on the livestock industry as it adds new costs into the system in segregation, handling and other requirements.

I know from talking to the cattle, hog and lamb producers in my riding, and some from across the country as well, that they have gone through a great deal of hardship in the past seven years. Producers are still feeling the effects of BSE, global red meat prices have slumped continually and they have experienced droughts and flooding in many regions of the country.

On top of what producers have called the perfect storm for the beef industry, the advent of COOL has been like the U.S. throwing salt in the already open wounds in our red meat sector.

In a number of sectors, including red meat, we are witnessing what has been called a thickening of the Canada-U.S. border. We have been working very hard with the industry to try to reduce the impact of this and we have had some good progress on a number of fronts.

In November 2007 the U.S. border opened to our older cattle and beef from older animals, with the introduction of the BSE second rule. This has given our producers a bigger share of the market. Since then, we have taken action to ensure that the border remains open by participating in U.S. litigation to support the rule.

We have also worked with the Mexican secretary of agriculture to get the Mexican border reopened to Canadian cattle, plus access for breeding animals and dairy replacement heifers.

We worked with the CFIA and industry to head off the enhanced testing that was put in place south of the border following the U.S. E. coli recalls.

On COOL more specifically, the United States implementation of country of origin labelling has been a huge concern to this government and our producers since it was first proposed. That is why we did not hesitate to let our southern neighbours know that we would vigorously oppose these measures. We will continue to assess the impact of COOL as it moves along. We hold it in abeyance.

The Prime Minister raised the issue with President George Bush and Canadian ministers have raised it with their U.S. counterparts. We have now raised it with the current President Obama and Secretary Vilsack. We have advanced the pace of the WTO challenge. We have been very clear with the Americans that we will have to undertake this if they proceed down this road.

We have let the Americans know that we will use all the trade dispute mechanisms at our disposal to ensure Canada is treated fairly and retains access without unreasonable regulatory barriers for our producers.

Our Minister of International Trade also made it clear when he said in a statement that “We believe that the country of origin legislation is creating undue trade restrictions to the detriment of Canadian exporters”.

As I said earlier, the livestock sector is a highly integrated industry in North America. Last year almost $4 billion in livestock, beef and pork crossed our borders.

Producers and processors on both sides depend on the free flow of goods. That is why last December this government initiated formal consultations with the U.S., under the WTO dispute settlement process, regarding mandatory COOL.

Canada expects the U.S. to live up to its international trade obligations. COOL threatens to disrupt that flow by adding needless costs and red tape into the system on both sides of the border. COOL will hurt the competitiveness of the integrated North American packing industries. It will drive down prices for Canadian livestock producers, which will eventually hurt the prices American ranchers receive as well.

There really is not a Canadian, or American or Mexican market. It is a completely integrated North American market. In this integrated cattle herd, individual animals sometimes cross borders numerous times for feeding before going to slaughter.

Breeding bulls and heifers have been sold between the two countries for over a century. There is no legitimate rationale for COOL to be applied to live cattle slaughtered in the United States. Whether the cattle are born and raised in the U.S. or Canada, they have been subjected to similar regulatory regimes, farming practices and they share the same lineage.

It is clear that COOL is only about discriminatory trade protection for a select few producers in the U.S. COOL is damaging to U.S. feedlots, backgrounders and packing plants.

Free and fair trade is essential to the economic health of livestock industries on both sides of the borders. We have been standing up for Canadian producers since the spectre of COOL first surfaced.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food has been very engaged in this issue, both before and after the new U.S. administration took office. The Minister of International Trade, as I mentioned earlier, has constantly raised this issue in his conversations with his American counterparts.

Throughout this situation, we have maintained a respectful relationship with our American neighbours, but make no mistake, we mean what we say.

We have consistently made it clear that current COOL regulations unfairly disadvantage Canadian producers. Until we receive the result that is fair for Canada, we will continue, and we must continue, to stand up for Canadian producers against COOL.

The current COOL regulations add huge costs and red tape for Canadian cattle and hog exports heading south. We must continue to restate that point strongly and respectfully, as we work with our American counterparts dealing with the COOL issue.

I want to talk a little about R-CALF. As I said, we have been trying to stand up for producers, we are standing up producers and defending our sector against the court challenges from R-CALF. In July 2005 my good friend and my colleague, the member for Selkirk—Interlake, as opposition members at the time, and we were opposition members, were the only elected members of this Canadian Parliament to attend the U.S. 9th circuit court of appeals in Seattle, Washington to show our support for the fight against R-CALF, something of which the member for Selkirk—Interlake and myself are very proud.

The government must continue its work to restore access to markets and opening new ones. Over the past few months, we have re-opened beef access in Hong Kong, Jordan and Saudi Arabia. We are keeping up the pressure with trade missions to Morocco and other countries. These are all good signs of progress, but there is still a lot of work to be done.

The government plans to pursue commercially significant access to beef markets as a first step in achieving full access, mandating by the World Organization for Animal Health. We are also working hard to diversify our global business through an ambitious agenda for the negotiation of bilateral free trade agreements, and I will use Peru and Colombia as examples there. EFTA is one that has recently come through the House.

We are working hard to resume trade access in cattle and beef with China. Competitiveness is about trade and it is about innovation at home as well. That is why we support the efforts of the beef and pork value chain round tables. That is why we are working with industry to help it build a strong, positive Canada brand. Let buyers know that no matter what product they choose, if it is Canadian, it comes backed by a commitment to quality and a world-class regulatory system.

That is why we are investing in research into beef and pork quality at a research station in Lacombe. That is why we invested $130 million in federal-provincial dollars to help the sector adjust to the enhanced feed ban.

There are still challenges and we are trying to work through them. There is a great opportunity for this sector. The global demand for protein is growing.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. If the hon. members want to ask questions, they will wait until it is their turn. Right now it is the member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chair, if the members from across the way had spent this much time raising their voices and their concerns for agriculture in their 13 years in government, we would not be sitting where we are today.

The member for Malpeque

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Was it coming from the trained seal from the back?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. If the members of the Liberal Party want to speak now, I might have to take some of their time and give it to the member so he can finish.

The hon. member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chair, that just cannot be relevant when he is all over the country and never in his own riding.

The minister has done a lot of work in trying to create some things that will help out young farmers. My youngest brother is farming and I know the obstacles he is up against. We did some things to help get some interest-free loans out to young farmers and also made some changes to the capital gains to help the generational transfers across.

Could the minister speak to the advantages of this?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, these are political issues and they have to be. A lot of people are concerned with the future of agriculture. There is no doubt that it is in good hands with this government in play.

The member talked a lot about free trade, but it also has to be fair trade. We are here to ensure that country of origin labelling is fair and does not negatively affect our producers, which we are scared it will.

The problem is the frustration of the unknown. We were able to work with the former administration to get the rules changed to combine two labels and make that much more palatable for the Canadian industry. Since that time, the new administration has decided to go a bit further voluntarily, but said that after six months if we did not measure up to this, it would make it mandatory.

That is where the concern is. That is why we have launched the second challenge, just to address that.

The member mentioned our colleague, the member for Selkirk—Interlake, who is a tireless crusader for the livestock sector. He was a cow-calf operator and so on. He has had some tough times lately. His wife was back in for another operation. Fortunately the tumour was benign, and she is at home recovering. I want to wish them all the best as they move forward. I know everybody agrees with that.

There is a tremendous demand around the country for Canadian product. The member opposite also talked about some of the trials and tribulations we faced due to the system in the U.S. with our calf. As opposition, we sought intervener status in that situation. We were granted status, and we were down there to make the points we needed to make.

We are making changes, too, as we move forward to financing for young farmers. There has not been any substantive programming out there. Farm Credit Canada, a division of Agriculture Canada and an arm's-length crown corporation, has a package that is quite good and works well, but it does do not have the depth that is needed. It is looking at doing more and more. I have had those discussions with Greg Stewart.

We are in the process of making changes to the old Farm Improvement and Marketing Cooperatives Loans Act . The name is new and the programming is new. About $1 billion over the next few years will be available to new and beginning farmers. It has never been there before.

We have cut the down payment to 10% from 20%. We have expanded the loan values from $250,000 cap to $500,000, which will help with succession planning. The member also rightly points out that we have changed the capital gains allowance so that dad can take a larger capital gains exemption, sell out to the son, or daughter, or son-in-law or daughter-in-law and he or she can make use of the new money that is available under FIMCLA .

It is a good all around program. It is the type of thing we see to backstop the future of farming. Agriculture, like any business, is a cash flow business.

Mr. Chair, you know that. You have had boots on the ground and farms in your area as do we. Farmers will tell us that they need is access to credit. They are quite happy to take on debt. It has to be good debt. We have done that with them with cash advances, where the first $100,000 is interest free.

Farming is in great shape in our great country. Under our guidance and working with them, we will continue to build a stronger agricultural sector.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Chair, another thing I know the minister has been working on is opening markets. I mentioned some of that in my remarks. I know that fight is ongoing.

Could the minister tell us what other markets he has in his scope? Maybe he cannot share everything with us for various reasons, but maybe he could talk a bit about that and some of the advantages to not only the livestock industry but to the grains, durum wheat and that kind of thing.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, as I said, my responsibility is a pleasure, but it is also a pleasure to be out selling Canadian product around the world.

We are taking industry with us. We are not arbitrarily making up these lists or the countries we are visiting. We are working from lists that have been supplied to us by the Canadian cattlemen, by the pulse growers, by the canola councils and so on.

They point out where they think there is an opportunity. They point out where they have had some gains, but need to expand those markets. We are going country by country from their lists to ensure we can expedite those types of situations and get more product into their countries.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Chair, would the minister answer a few simple questions on the estimates.

First, is the number $220,466,000 less than the number $236,848,000, yes or no?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, I have to get my calculator out for numbers that big, but it certainly looks like less to me.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

Mr. Chair, sorry what was the answer?

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. minister can answer the question again.

Agriculture and Agri-food--Main Estimates, 2009-10Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Mr. Chair, absolutely.