House of Commons Hansard #52 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was efficiency.

Topics

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary about the climate change aspects of the bill. He talked about energy savings. He talked also about the money savings that all of us could benefit from, from measures to lower the energy use of products we have in our homes. This is true and that is why we support the bill.

It is also true of course that we can benefit and lower our energy use by turning things off, like turning off our computers at night which is important that we do. I hope that my own family is hearing me. I hope my son is hearing me say that and is reminded to do that at home.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

An hon. member

Good luck.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Apparently one of my colleagues has the same challenge.

What percentage of Canada's greenhouse gases does the bill represent? When will the government bring forward regulations to regulate our greenhouse gases? The government has been talking about doing this for three years now and we have seen no action.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Speaker, I actually did mention a number of ways in which our government has moved on that. The goals have been set at a reduction of 20% in greenhouse gases by 2020. This government is committed to making those targets.

I talked about the home renovation tax credit which will certainly make an environmental difference for many folks in this country when they are making these changes. They are aware of the fact that energy costs are high and they certainly will be making changes in their houses that will help them to be more efficient in their use of energy. As I mentioned, the home retrofit program is designed specifically to do that.

This government has moved on a number of fronts. Obviously, Natural Resources Canada has these three. The other departments have a number of other initiatives that they have put ahead as well. There is a package that is put together that is making a difference for Canadians.

I think they appreciate that. They particularly appreciate the things like the tax credits because they allow them to do that kind of work and to get some credit for it.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have two questions for the member.

One is along the same lines as the question my Liberal colleague asked. How can the government introduce such a bill without calculating the energy and emission savings? In his speech, the member said that emissions will be significantly reduced. But by how much? He should not trot out the figure of 20% by 2020. That is another specific bill. What will the emission reductions and the energy savings be with this bill? That is what we need to know.

I would also like the member to tell me why he is talking about home renovations when I did not see anything about that in the bill. Did he see something about that somewhere? The bill does not talk about home renovations or home energy efficiency. I would like to hear what he has to say about that.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Speaker, I think if the member had been listening to my last answer, he would understand what I said, which is that this government has come up with a package. There are a number of things that different departments are doing. Clearly, Bill S-3 is part of that package. It will make a significant difference in Canadians' lives. That is what it is about. It is about evaluating the products that are on the market right now and finding out if they are energy efficient enough to allow them to remain as they are. If they are not, then they will be regulated and they will have to be replaced by more energy efficient products.

Standby power is a clear example of a place where energy is used and we think we can do something about it.

The answer to the member's question is that it will depend on Canadians embracing the idea of energy efficiency, welcoming it and then adhering to these regulations. That is how the difference will take place.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the parliamentary secretary about the home renovation tax credit as he is using that as a crutch for this bill.

It is important to recognize that in this tax credit scheme that the government has going, which does have some good stuff in it, it leaves out renters. Approximately 25% of Canadians are renters and it is even higher in Quebec. For example, a Muskoka cottage owner who builds a deck or re-sods the lawn can get a tax credit but renters cannot. What about renters in co-ops, especially seniors who are long term renters, who want to install new windows to reduce costs? Many apartment buildings have electric and other types of inefficient heating systems and renters need the opportunity to lower their bills because they are usually in the greatest need of support as they are lower on the income scale.

I would like to ask the parliamentary secretary why the government does not fix this. Why has it decided to punish many Canadians by not letting them into this program, especially when they could be putting savings in their pockets instead of subsidizing those who want to build decks and re-sod their lawns in Muskoka?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Speaker, is that not typical? The NDP is again against one of the most popular things that the government has done in years. It just shows how out of step it is with Canadians.

The home renovation tax credit is for people to renovate their homes and it will be available to them.

I do not think we need a crutch. As I mentioned, there is a package of legislative moves and a package of programs.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

What about apartments? You can't answer the question because you are too embarrassed.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

It is unfortunate the member across the way does not want to listen to the answer. However, we have put together a package of programs and Bill S-3 is part of that package, as is the home renovation tax credit and the home retrofit program. When we put that all together, Canadians were very happy and excited to see what we were doing for energy efficiency.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate the member for his hard work on this legislation and share his view that the home renovation tax credit is very popular among constituents in my riding.

I am curious and somewhat concerned about the sometimes inefficient standby power of household electronics. I was wondering if he could tell us a little more about how the amendments to the Energy Efficiency Act would address this issue.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Speaker, this is one of the things the bill is directly concerned about. We talked about the fact that it would give authority to the government to regulate energy-using products.

I do not think most Canadians understand how much energy they use. As I mentioned earlier, they have up to 25 different types of appliances plugged in that are often using a significant amount of energy by just sitting there, even if they are turned off. If a television is turned off, there is energy keeping it warmed up. If a CD player is turned off, there is energy being used in the background, even when people do not think it is turned on.

There is a whole host of other things, such as microwave ovens, battery chargers and computers. All of those things use a significant amount of standby power. One of the goals of this legislation is to allow us to regulate and reduce that. As I mentioned, that is a significant amount of power. I am told it can account for as much as 10% of an average household's annual electricity cost. If most Canadians could save a significant amount of money on their bills, I think they would be very happy about that.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that the government is interested in taking baby steps on energy efficiency but why are we not tackling the larger source of energy guzzlers, our industries? Why is the government not also tabling a bill similar to this one? In fact, why are we not making available to the public the kinds of proposals the government is thinking about making, which is what the U.S. government has just done in tabling its energy efficiency act requiring energy efficient standards across the board?

Why is the government not tabling a revised building code so that we do not tinker with old houses but will have better standards for all newly built buildings?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Mr. Speaker, I want to point out that the purpose of this bill is to regulate energy-using products, which is why it is called the Energy Efficiency Act. It is a small bill and it has that limited scope. That is what the purpose of the bill is.

We want to find ourselves in a situation where we are able to put products into classes so that we can better regulate them. We want to take a look at interprovincial shipments of energy-producing and energy-using products across the country. We want to ensure that dealers and the people selling these kinds of products will be supplying adequate information both to the government and to the folks who are buying those products.

I will admit that this bill has that scope and that is its purpose. We look forward to the opposition supporting us and getting this bill through as quickly as possible.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, before I begin to speak to Bill S-3, I want to say how pleased I am I see many hon. members wearing carnations. Some members, perhaps, did not have a chance to get one before question period when they were being offered, but many are wearing them in recognition of the launch of the Multiple Sclerosis Society's Carnation Campaign. Last year I took part in the MS bike tour in Nova Scotia and hope to do so again this summer. I know many members will be supporting the MS Society and other charities, of course, in their ridings and across the country.

The natural resources committee dealt with Bill S-3, the amendments to the Energy Efficiency Act, for the third time last week. I say the third time because this bill, or one very similar, has been before Parliament twice before. Hopefully this time the government has it right because effective regulation of energy-consuming products is an important tool in our efforts to combat climate change. Canadians have known this for a long time and it is encouraging to see that the Conservative government might be starting to realize this too.

Bill S-3 deals with seven basic amendments, all of which were discussed in committee during clause by clause. That is the clause-by-clause analysis when each clause of the bill is considered, amendments are considered and the clauses are amended or passed.

One important change that the bill provides would allow government to regulate classes of products rather than individual products. This would includes products defined by similar characteristics. That will be helpful, as we see more and more energy-consuming products coming on the market every day.

The problem in the past has been that when new products appeared that did not really fit into a description in the act, they could not be regulated effectively. Therefore, by having categories, it makes it much simpler because it is awfully hard to say what the next product will be. When we consider the phenomenal rate of change in technology in my lifetime and in the lifetime of many members here, we can certainly understand that we can expect and anticipate lots more interesting, exciting new technologies and developments, but it is important that we have the ability the regulate new products that come along.

Other amendments in the bill deal with issues like the potential stockpiling of non-compliant products, labelling and a requirement to report to Parliament every four years on the stringency of the act.

When people consider buying a refrigerator, a freezer or a stove, for example, they can see the label on the product that tells them about the kinds of energy use that product involves. I assume that when people buy a fridge, they think of those things. Modern fridges use far less energy and electricity than they did 20 years or so ago. Hence, people do look at those things. That labelling information is very important to consumers, but having standardized labelling is part of what this is about.

The basic premise of the bill is to broaden the scope of the government's ability to regulate energy-using consumer products, including products that affect or control energy consumption.

Bill S-3 is actually building on a 1992 act which established the regulations the first time to eliminate the big energy wasters, to promote energy efficiency in general and bring in labelling requirements, the kind I talked about a moment ago.

Bill S-3 significantly broadens the government's ability to improve energy efficiency, something that the Liberal Party supports. I congratulate the government on bringing this bill forward for the third time. I hope this time we can get it through, pass it on to the Senate shortly and it can finish with it before too long. As the senators consider it, as they should, and their duty is to have consideration of the bill, then we hope they will pass it and have it go to royal assent.

One aspect of Bill S-3 that I think is very important is the regulation of products that operate on standby mode. My hon. colleague, the parliamentary secretary, was talking a bit about that. We all have these kinds of products in our homes. Those are any products that we see some little light on, whether it is our DVD player, clock radio, microwave, some kind of games or whatever, those things that stay plugged in and have a little light flashing or the time showing on them, they are using energy all the time.

This bill would require companies manufacturing and selling those products to ensure they meet more stringent requirements in bringing down the kilowatt hours that they are using up with those items.

We all need to be more educated about energy consumption from products operating in standby mode. Hopefully, to some small extent, the fact that we are discussing this today will have a bit of that effect. This bill should be helpful in that regard.

I know the department, as the Department of Natural Resources has been doing for years, does make efforts to educate the public on that. I would encourage the department to do more of that. I was encouraged when departmental officials indicated that some amendments, like the reporting aspects of this legislation, were in response to comments that the opposition made in previous attempts to amend this act. It is sound, but a bit unusual for the government to listen to Parliament and committees in this fashion. However, it is a salutary incident and I congratulate the government on that.

I note that the roots of Bill S-3 are found in the original so-called clean air act that the former environment minister introduced in 2006. Parts of that legislation focused on the government's plan at the time to regulate large final emitters of greenhouse gases. It also involved the regulation of fuel consumption by automobiles, among other things.

After the House and committee made wholesale amendments to the climate change provisions of Bill C-30, the so-called clean air act, and actually made it a clean air act, the government, unfortunately, chose not to bring the bill back to the House for further debate. And the Conservatives wonder why they were labelled “climate change deniers”.

Instead of bringing back the clean air bill in its entirety, the government decided instead to carve off the Energy Efficiency Act provisions and introduce them in a separate bill in the Senate. We are dealing with that now. The measures in this bill are fine as they are but we need to see more from the government in terms of dealing with climate change effectively.

While the government wasted several years in the process, the results in this case in relation to these items we use in our homes, will be more effective regulation of items like washers, dryers and fridges, through standards, labelling and education.

However, as many of my colleagues who have spoken on this bill at second reading pointed out, there are some concerns. Many Canadians are concerned because they know they cannot trust the Conservative government when it comes to bringing forth regulations to ensure the impact of the amendments outlined in Bill S-3 will be felt. We have seen in its other actions that it cannot be trusted to take action on climate change. We have seen no regulations. After three years of promising them, there are no regulations on greenhouse gases.

There are also concerns about the Conservative government's complete failure to understand that energy efficiency is a fundamental issue for not just the environment but also for our economy.

When this bill was debated in the other place, the Senate, my colleague from Alberta, Senator Grant Mitchell, raised many important questions about this bill. In fact, while the government leader in the Senate introduced the bill, it was Senator Mitchell who was the driving force behind these ideas and this bill, and has been for some time now. He was right when he noted that perhaps one of the biggest questions was the lack of trust that Canadians have that this neo-Conservative government will do anything it promises.

I said that Senator Mitchell was the force in the Senate working on this. However, many Canadians interested in this issue have also been working on this issue and I am sure they will be pleased to see some progress. I have heard from many Canadians who say that they simply do not trust the government to implement this or any other significant environmental policy. I find that troublesome and troubling.

While the Liberal Party supports a broadening of the government's ability to regulate products that use energy, it does not disguise the fact that these changes are in isolation and that they create a false impression that the Conservatives are doing something on the climate change file. Well, they are not doing much, other than waiting for the United States to tell them what their environmental policies will be.

We used to hear the Conservatives say that they would have a made in Canada plan for climate change. We are still waiting for that plan. We are still waiting for regulations. We have seen no actual action. Moreover, not only are the Conservatives not talking about a made in Canada plan any more, now they are waiting for a made in U.S.A. plan. It is quite a change for the government, but the net effect is nothing.

This is another reason why Canadians do not trust the Prime Minister or the government on environmental matters, climate change, any more than they can trust it to properly manage our country's finances or our economy.

We saw that last year times when the government and the country were in deficit, even before the recession began. We saw that in the first two months of the fiscal year and we saw it again in August.

The government claimed in November that everything would be fine, that the budget would be balanced. Then we saw money allocated in the budget for infrastructure which was not being spent.

The Conservatives were talking about stimulating the economy. They were telling us how urgent it was to pass the budget, yet the money, under their proposal, could not be spent until April 1. They were not getting things moving even before that. How concerned were they about where the economy was going? That is discouraging, but it is another matter.

It is true Bill S-3 would lead to more energy efficient products on the Canadian market. Hopefully this time the bill will make it all the way into law.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the question to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment is as follows: the hon. member for Madawaska—Restigouche, The Economy.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Bloc

Christian Ouellet Bloc Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know whether my colleague from Halifax West reacted as I did. I would like to know what he thinks about the fact that the secretary of state said earlier that energy efficiency was important, yet this is a slim, four-page bill.

Why call this the Energy Efficiency Act when it covers only appliances and a few other gadgets?

Energy efficiency is much broader than that. It affects buildings, all the large buildings, office buildings, factories and so on. It also affects the manufacturing industry, the residential sector and the whole transportation sector. But there is nothing about that in the Energy Efficiency Act.

How can the government say this is an energy efficiency act when it takes such a narrow view of energy efficiency?

How does my colleague from Halifax West react to the way the government sees energy efficiency?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague for his question.

I agree with him. This bill is relevant for little things like refrigerators and household electronics, such as computers, and so on. That is true, and as I said in my speech, it is important to have rules and maybe a bill with broader scope that includes industries, buildings, and so on.

Energy efficiency is both an economic issue and an environmental one. We have a lot of opportunities to improve things both economically and environmentally.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Cypress Hills—Grasslands Saskatchewan

Conservative

David Anderson ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources and for the Canadian Wheat Board

Mr. Speaker, I would like to read, for the benefit of my colleague from the Bloc, what the legislation would actually do, as I do not know if he has read the bill. Section 5 states this can allow:

—prescribing as an energy-using product any manufactured product, or class of manufactured products, that is designed to operate using electricity, oil, natural gas or any other form or source of energy or that affects or controls energy consumption.

That seems to be very broad and covers far more than “gadgets”, the word he used.

My Liberal colleague made the comment that Canadians did not trust government to implement these changes. I do not think our government has brought about that skepticism. The Energy Efficiency Act was originally passed in 1992 by a Conservative government. For 13 long years absolutely no changes were made to it to improve energy efficiency. Again it is a Conservative government that is amending that act.

Why did the member's government do nothing for 13 long years with regard to energy efficiency? Why have we had to step forward and do this for Canadians?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, I trust my hon. colleague is aware that there were many measures taken by the Liberals during the 12 and one-quarter years when we were in government, which he likes to stretch to 13 and that is fine.

One gets the feeling sometimes that members of the government think they are in opposition again, when they try to point the finger in the other direction rather than take responsibility and be accountable for their own record. They have been in government for three years now. It is time to be accountable. I can recall being part of the cabinet that brought forward Project Green, which listed the six greenhouse gases that began the process of regulation. They have to be listed first and then six or eight months later the next process toward regulation can be started. That began in June 2005.

In January of the next year, the Conservatives became the government. We have waited and waited for any actual regulations. I think it is fair to say that there is a reason why Canadians do not trust the Conservative government on that question.

When he talks about the different classes of items, I guess the concern is this. What we have heard from the government and officials is about computers, washers, dryers and DVD players. We have certainly not heard about other major items. For example, officials were asked about whether the bill would be used to regulate automobile emissions. Theoretically, taking a look at the wording, it could be. However, they made it clear that it would not be used for that purpose.

Based upon the fact that what they are talking about is DVD players, et cetera, how can we have any confidence that it is going to be used for any major industrial facilities, et cetera?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will ask the member for Halifax West the same question I asked the parliamentary secretary, who refused to answer. This is an issue of fairness. This is the home renovation tax credit, which the parliamentary secretary introduced into this debate. Because 25% of Canadians are renters, they will be unable to have access to this type of a tax credit.

If people have cottages somewhere and they want to put on decks or sod their lawns, they will be able to access this tax credit. Meanwhile, if a renting senior or others who have been in facilities for a long time want to update their windows to have energy reductions on their bills and reduce greenhouse gases, they will not be eligible for the tax credit.

Does the member for Halifax West think that is fair?

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, I think this is a reasonable concern. My hon. colleague, the parliamentary secretary, is correct when he says this is a popular measure. People who are building decks on their cottages are probably delighted to get a break on that. We would like to get a break on all kinds of things.

If people are concerned about climate change and the environment, what would be the best place to target these? People across the country were polled back when the recession started. They told us that they wanted a stimulus, a stimulus that would focus on things to help the environment and make us more competitive. What should the focus be for that? It seems to me that it would be reasonable to say that we should focus on things that will help people make their homes or apartments more energy efficient.

While I think it is important to include homeowners in that, I do not see why we could not give people who are in apartments an opportunity to benefit from the same kind of program.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

John Weston Conservative West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC

Mr. Speaker, a tax credit that is good for all Canadians does not become bad because it fails to apply to some Canadians. In both cases, the parties opposite were invited to provide input in prebudget consultations. In neither case did we get that.

Our government has produced a tax credit that is immensely popular across Canada. Next time around, I would hope the hon. member for Halifax West and my other colleague would present creditable comments during the time for consultation.

We also heard that the Conservatives had done nothing and had—

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I point out for the hon. member that I did make submissions to the Minister of Finance, as did my party.

Energy Efficiency ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

I am not sure if that is a point of order, but I would remind all hon. members that we are dealing with Bill S-3 today. I ask that they keep their comments restricted to that.

The hon. member for West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, a quick question, please.