House of Commons Hansard #18 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was artists.

Topics

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Royal Galipeau Conservative Ottawa—Orléans, ON

Mr. Speaker, thank you for allowing me to once again speak to this bill, which would allow the creation of new regulatory bodies in Canada in areas of communications. I wish to explain why I sincerely believe that such an approach would actually hinder the development of French-speakers across Canada, including those in Quebec.

First of all, I want to stress the importance of communications for Canada and for Quebec. Broadcasting and telecommunications have a significant impact on local and regional distinctiveness throughout the country and in Quebec.

Canadians of all ages have many options for communicating with others, passing the time, getting information and getting to know their fellow citizens, whether they live in Iqaluit, Gravelbourg, Orléans, Saint-Isidore, Shediac or Gaspé. Person-to-person telecommunications make it possible to talk to others and understand them and to transmit information and data that are essential to the development of our communities and businesses.

Quality programming produced here by skilled, creative professionals and made available through networks and broadcasters from across the country provides Canadians with entertainment and information, thereby contributing to their development and allowing them to learn more about the world around them.

The broadcasting system, as we know it, enables the expression of French culture to develop not just within Quebec itself but in every corner of Canada.

In fact, the great diversity in French content created in Quebec and other parts of the country is made available from coast to coast, for the benefit of all francophone communities, including many francophone minority communities.

We firmly believe that the interests of these French-speaking communities are well served by the current broadcasting system. The Broadcasting Act and the regulatory framework reflect the interests and demands of Canada's English language and French language broadcasting markets, particularly through public hearings held by the CRTC.

We are satisfied that the current regulatory framework enables French language communities in Quebec, and elsewhere in the country, to participate in and contribute to the development of a broadcasting system that reflects their needs and expectations, and to express any of their concerns that need to be considered.

I must also mention that when a licence is granted, renewed or amended, the objectives of Canada's broadcasting policy, as stated in the Broadcasting Act, must be taken into consideration. The act states that, “English and French language broadcasting, while sharing common aspects, operate under different conditions and may have different requirements”.

The act also says that the Canadian broadcasting system should serve the needs and interests, and reflect the circumstances and aspirations, of Canadian men, women and children, particularly in terms of official languages.

This is why the Broadcasting Act and the current regulatory structure have managed to protect and promote the social, cultural and economic objectives of our communities and our communications companies across Canada.

The people I humbly represent in this place believe that it is crucial that all Canadians continue to enjoy the benefits through a regulatory framework for the communications industry that is unified, coherent and effective, and that places a great deal of importance on recognizing the interests and aspirations of all our communities, including French language communities in Quebec and throughout Canada.

We believe, without a doubt, that it would be bad for francophone communities in Canada to amend the existing regulatory framework, as Bill C-444 proposes to do.

I am opposed to this bill, as I stated on March 8.

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for your careful attention and especially for keeping order during the provocative remarks that I have just made.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Mr. Speaker, before I begin my speech about Bill C-444, I would like to take a moment to mention Purple Day, which was started two years ago by a young girl named Cassidy Megan, from Halifax.

I am wearing purple today because of Cassidy Megan. I want to show my support for adults and children with epilepsy, and I want to promote information campaigns about this illness that affects an average of 15,500 Canadians each year. Thank you, Cassidy.

Unlike our colleagues across the way, we understand the value of culture. We know that we not only need to support it, but we also need to strengthen it in every way possible.

Previous cuts to the PromArt program, which allowed Canadian artists to promote their work and their culture abroad, and the Trade Routes program, which provided support to artistic and cultural entrepreneurs, were a slap in the face to artists and all Canadians. These cuts demonstrated the Conservative government's inability to understand the arts and its irresponsibility in this sector.

After seeing their budget, it is even more obvious that the Prime Minister and the Conservatives have no idea about culture and have not listened to the many demands from the public about this. This should not surprise us, however, because their decisions have shown that they have no interest in culture and attach no importance to it. It is the same with environmental issues. They just do not understand. If you keep artists from performing internationally, you are keeping our culture from international recognition. You are badmouthing our heritage.

Our party, the Liberal Party of Canada, believes in increasing support for Canadian artists and cultural organizations, especially in this new era of the digital economy.

However, there is another topic that concerns me today and that is Bill C-444 and the impact it will have on the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission as well as on culture.

The CRTC was created to defend and promote Canadians' attitudes, opinions, ideas, values and artistic talents. All of these things are the result of our country's history, its geographic location, its institutions and, above all, its linguistic and cultural diversity.

The CRTC's role is to ensure that both the broadcasting and telecommunications systems serve the Canadian public. The CRTC uses the objectives in the Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications Act to guide its policy decisions.

For instance, one of the CRTC's initiatives is the local programming improvement fund, whose aim is to support and improve the quality of local television programming. This program really meets the needs and expectations of the public regarding information on what is happening in their region.

With new digital technologies, regulatory bodies are losing their powers. Barriers to entering domestic markets are becoming almost non-existent. This situation is bringing in new stakeholders that companies have to compete with.

The lines between the media, businesses, mechanisms, programs and content are blurring, and users are already beginning to control content and actively participate in creating it. In the current context, one might reasonably wonder how such legislation would help us face the challenges ahead. I will come back to this later on in my speech.

In Quebec, the CRTC has been working tirelessly to ensure that our artists can access the media and the world of broadcasting, so that the public can benefit from access to local content and our broadcasting industries can grow.

It is an ideal tool not only for ensuring the survival of Quebec culture, but also for sharing it with the rest of the country.

Bill C-444 would split up the CRTC and have it function in a vacuum in the provinces. It will not strengthen culture. On the contrary, dividing up the CRTC would weaken an institution that works for the survival of that culture. It would divide the population and block up our window on the world.

The CRTC has always been a leader in consulting the public and seeking people's opinions on matters pertaining to broadcasting and telecommunications, in order to be in tune with the needs of the people. Therefore, it is a tool of the people and not a tool of political partisanship.

I would like to know where my colleague got the idea for such a bill. No artist or cultural group could have asked for a legislative measure to create another regulatory body in Quebec. Quebec is not asking for this. It is pure political partisanship at the expense of our artists and creators.

The Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission plays a vital role as the protector of our culture. It would make no sense to weaken it when we should be working hard to secure and strengthen its role and mandate in the current political and economic context. Adding to the number of regulatory bodies would only exponentially increase the problems faced by our cultural communities.

Given the challenges of the future, Bill C-444 is not at all a step in the right direction. It would only cloud the issues and add to existing problems that we have been trying hard to resolve for many years.

Let us not erect walls or stuff our windows. Let us protect our culture by sharing it and making it known to the entire world, not hiving it off and having it become inward-looking.

I oppose Bill C-444 and will be voting against it. I urge my colleagues to do the same. I specifically invite my colleague, the member for Repentigny, to work with us. We must focus our efforts on protecting our Canadian culture, and Quebec content makes up a significant part of that culture.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

1:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise to speak on Bill C-444, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications Act (broadcasting and telecommunications policies), so the Québécois identity is reflected in the Canadian broadcasting telecommunications policies of our country. I am happy to say our party supports the bill moving forward to committee where it can be discussed even further.

The reason why this is such a valuable bill is because it helps us talk about extending cultural sensitivities and responsiveness in our country. I thank my colleague from the Bloc for putting this forward. Also, it allows us to debate two very important issues that are fundamental interests of Canadians, and that is public broadcasting and cultural policy.

My party, the New Democrats, is a strong believer in public broadcasting. My party, the New Democrats, is a strong supporter of the CBC and Radio-Canada. I personally am a strong supporter of the CBC and of public broadcasting in every sense of those concepts.

Canada is a large and diverse country. We have strong anglophone and francophone cultures in communities across the country. We have strong, vibrant and growing multicultural communities and first nations communities of every type in every province and territory of our federation.

My riding of Vancouver Kingsway is a wonderful diverse community of communities, where languages and cultures can be heard from every corner of the world. This incredible diversity of culture is never adequately conveyed purely and solely by the private broadcasting system.

Canadians who live in communities, small and large, coast to coast to coast need a strong public broadcasting facility and a strong cultural policy in the country in order to manifest this multicultural mosaic. Geographic diversity is also never adequately reflected in the private commercial broadcasting system and never will be adequately represented solely by the private commercial broadcasting system.

Only a strong, properly funded public broadcaster, informed and backed up by a cultural policy that reflects and embraces multiculturalism and the francophone, anglophone and multicultural and first nations quadrants of our country can actually do so, so we can all, as Canadians, tell our stories.

This bill would ensure that francophone culture and identity are adequately represented in our national broadcasting system. The NDP fully supports this important objective. I have said it before, and I will say it again: I am proud of our country's diversity.

As the multiculturalism critic for the NDP, I also want us to highlight and celebrate this diversity.

I would now like to speak for a few moments about the diversity in my riding of Vancouver Kingsway. My friends in Quebec know that my riding is geographically one of the furthest from Quebec.

However, I want all members to know that in my province there is a francophone community that is small, yes, but also vibrant and growing. I wanted to note that, because francophones in British Columbia represent an important part of the multicultural mosaic I am so proud of and all British Columbians are proud of, I am sure.

Quebec culture and literature, as well as the French language, are alive and well throughout the province. We have festivals that celebrate Franco-Canadian culture and excellent French language instruction programs in our schools, and we acknowledge the richness of the history and heritage of Quebec and francophone Canadians.

Going back to the CBC, without adequate funding, it cannot survive. Underfunded by current and previous governments as it has been, it has lost and is losing its ability to fulfill its mandate. Commercialization is not the answer.

The government has mused about putting advertising on CBC Radio. It has sold off the rights to the Hockey Night in Canada theme song. It has dismantled the CBC Radio orchestra. As every Canadian who watches and listens to the CBC knows, there has been a distinct change in the mandate and manner in which CBC delivers its programming.

Canadians do not value CBC because it is just another commercial station. We must not go down the path of commercialization if the CBC is to fulfill its mandate to provide a forum for Canadian voices, music and ideas.

The heritage committee has called for an increase in funding to our national broadcaster. It wants it to go to $40 per citizen in this country, up from the current $33. Think of that: another $7 per person a year so that our country can have a strong national broadcasting voice from coast to coast to coast that brings Canadians together by sharing our music, our stories, our histories, our cultures, our social and political ideas of every type. Seventy-four per cent of Canadians agree with that, because they believe CBC's funding should be increased.

Last year in my riding of Vancouver Kingsway, I held a town hall about the future of the CBC. I heard that citizens in Vancouver Kingsway and the Lower Mainland of British Colombia and across the country are passionate about our public broadcaster. They want it to be well funded. They support its mandate. They want balanced, intelligent, public interest media in our country in addition to a wide and diverse private sector.

The bill before us goes beyond Canadian broadcasting. It brings up broader issues of cultural policy. Arts and culture are vital to a healthy society. A vibrant arts community makes cities, towns and rural areas livable. It is another vital avenue for Canadian stories to be told. It is a vital avenue for Canadian voices to be heard.

Vancouver Kingsway has an extremely active and vibrant community of artists and cultural workers who tell these stories and whose voices are heard. We have musicians, actors, painters and sculptors who are an important part of what makes Vancouver such a great city in which to live. Many of these people, who are from every culture, whether it be south Asian, Chinese, Filipino, Vietnamese, Caucasian or first nations, contribute to this cultural mosaic for the love of creating culture and for the love of this country. The average salary of an artist in Canada is under $15,000 a year.

These cultural artists who help build our country and who give our country depth and value need a mechanism in which to have their voices and their talents expressed. Producing great works of art or culture without government support has never happened in history. The ancient Greeks supported their artists, dramatists, musicians and their cultural producers. Investing in arts and culture is investing in healthy livable communities. It is investing in our shared history and identity. It is an investment worth making.

I thank the member for Repentigny for bringing this bill forward and allowing us to have this important discussion. We support sending the bill to committee so we can continue the discussion there, so that we can build a country that has a strong culture in Quebec, British Columbia and every other province and territory for every culture that is part of the Canadian mosaic.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, we are not here to quibble over whether Quebeckers or Canadians have the stronger, more intense, more imposing culture; not at all. In the House, day after day and week after week, we see that the nation of Quebec is in a different situation and that its needs are different.

For example, this week, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission revealed a new regulatory policy for television. One aspect of this policy is that from now on, television broadcasters can reduce their Canadian content, and thus their Quebec content as well, from 60% to 55%.

This measure is essentially aimed at Canada and not at all at Quebec. Why? Because in Quebec, Quebec content is much higher than 60%. I do not have the exact figures, but during prime time, Quebec television stations must be broadcasting nearly 80% Quebec content.

Accordingly, Quebec does not face the same problems the rest of Canada does. Are Quebec's problems easier to resolve? I do not know, but they are different and they have to be treated differently.

We have different problems and a different language. However, in Quebec, there is a real star system and everything we need to nourish it. There is an audience that eats up artistic activities of any kind and that loves Quebec artists and their art. Quebeckers keep asking for more; the television ratings prove it. When there is a Quebec production, a new series or a show by a Quebec artist, the public happily tunes in to watch the program.

The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage has heard from many witnesses and we have noted that the same thing is not happening elsewhere in Canada. Other areas have difficulty producing Canadian content and when they do produce it, they have difficulty attracting an audience, likely because of the language. But I am not here to do such an analysis; Canadians can do it for themselves.

Last year the vice-president of CBC/Radio-Canada said that Canadians are the only people in the world who prefer their neighbour's television. That is not at all the case in Quebec. We are very lucky; we have everything we need. Our artists are good, we enjoy them and we do not have such problems.

When we see the CRTC lowering the requirements in terms of Canadian content, we know that this is not for us. While the commission notes that our problems are different, it always ends up proposing solutions that are enforced from coast to coast to coast, in Canada and in Quebec. Yet these solutions do not suit Quebeckers, because they do not correspond at all to our reality.

When we talk about Quebec's problems and values, and about the Quebec nation, the other members of this House believe it is only natural, because we are sovereignists and all we want is Quebec independence. However, I have a letter here from Quebec's Minister of Culture, Communications and the Status of Women, Christine St-Pierre. She is not a sovereignist or a separatist. She is a Liberal, a federalist and a member of Jean Charest's government, Charest being a former Conservative leader, no less.

Ms. St-Pierre wrote to the Minister of Canadian Heritage on March 23, 2009. This letter was sent almost a year ago, and I have never even seen an acknowledgment of receipt. But I will come back to that.

I would like to read the letter because it is extremely important in the history of Quebec culture and communications. It is not the first letter the Quebec government has sent to the federal government. In the letter, the completely federalist Christine St-Pierre is asking the federal Conservative government to transfer responsibility for both culture and communications to the Government of Quebec.

I will read the letter:

Dear Minister,

I am writing to reiterate—reiterate means “repeat” or “do again”—the Government of Quebec's desire to undertake discussions about an agreement on culture and an agreement on communications with the Government of Canada. This request was made in a letter addressed to your predecessor—I cannot name her, but she is a woman, she was the Heritage minister, and she is now the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs—on April 9, 2008, and to her colleagues, the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.—The members opposite know about this because several of them received a letter.— Quebec once again stated its position on August 13, 2008, in a second letter I wrote to the Minister of Canadian Heritage—who is now the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs—.

In September 2008, the Premier of Quebec, Jean Charest, reiterated—there is that word “reiterated” again, which is a bit tiresome, but that is the word she used; some might say that more tiresome still is the fact that she had to reiterate anything at all, and they would be right—our request of the federal government to undertake negotiations about agreements on culture and communications with Quebec over the coming year. The Premier stated that Quebec wanted to assume control, within the province, of all federally funded cultural programs. He—Jean Charest, the Premier of Quebec—expressed the Government of Quebec's desire to have funds managed by Canadian Heritage and major federal funding institutions—such as the Canada Council for the Arts—transferred to it, taking into account Quebec's historical share.—I will have more to say later on about Quebec's historical share, which is not a per capita portion because Quebec's historical share of the culture and communications sector is much higher than that. —

—Now we come to a subtitle or subheading:—Agreement on Culture—and later on, we will come to Agreement on Communications. I mention this because it is no fun hearing someone read a letter without being able to see it. I am trying to read it in a way that will help everyone visualize it.—

Quebec is the only francophone state in North America, and it has a culture of its own. —As I said before, these are not sovereignists talking, but Quebec's federalist culture minister.—The Canadian Parliament has, in fact, recognized the Quebec nation. —The minister is asking the government to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. We are a nation, and we want the government to act accordingly.— Culture falls within the Government of Quebec's jurisdiction. —Maybe I should repeat that. Culture falls within the Government of Quebec's jurisdiction. Is that clear enough?—Quebec's desire to exercise its jurisdiction over culture is inextricably linked to the identity of the Quebec nation. —I will not repeat every sentence twice, but I suggest that everyone listen closely because every word is important.—The Government of Quebec must ensure the long-term survival and development of Quebec culture.—I really want to repeat that sentence because it is well put and perfectly aligned with the Bloc Québécois' thinking despite having been said not by a separatist or a sovereignist or anyone like that, but by a staunch federalist, Christine St-Pierre, in a letter to the Minister of Canadian Heritage.—

Quebec is seeking greater coherence when it comes to government-funded cultural measures. The province wishes to integrate its cultural development in the artistic, industrial and civic spheres. Greater coherence will enable the province to achieve its cultural goals as set out in the 1992 Politique culturelle, the cultural policy passed unanimously by the National Assembly.

The federal government's many cultural measures, though primarily directed to financing, have a definite effect on cultural development in Quebec.

A Canada-Quebec agreement on culture would provide Quebec with control over public funding of cultural activities within the province. The agreement should therefore cover the complete envelope of funds associated with federal programs that subsidize and fund culture and heritage.

As far back as 1992, the Charlottetown Accord stated that “Provinces should have exclusive jurisdiction over cultural matters within the provinces”.

I want to point out that Minister St-Pierre wants to see practical mechanisms for participating in the development and definition—

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:15 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise once again in the House, this time to address Bill C-444. In reflection, I want to make a couple of comments before I get into the body of the text of my speech about the cultural identity of the various regions within Canada.

I do not think it is fair to the folks in St. John's, Newfoundland, for example, to say that they are not culturally distinct from Calgary, Alberta, or that Victoria, British Columbia does not have its own cultural identity that might be somewhat different from Peterborough. It is a strength in Canada that we have all of these culturally distinct regions and that we all come together under one flag and one nation.

We certainly saw in the Vancouver 2010 Olympics. We did not just see our athletes dominate, which by the way was spectacular. We also saw our artists. We also saw Canadians celebrating in the streets. We saw a collective strength of a nation, the likes of which I have never seen. That collective strength is supported by regions of the country that are as diverse from one another as one could possibly imagine. However, they have one thing in common, and that is a love of this nation.

I am very pleased to have this opportunity to comment on matters relevant to the regulation of broadcasting and telecommunications activities in Canada. Given proposals contained in Bill C-444, I believe we must take the time to consider the impact they would have on Canadian consumers, including those in Quebec.

We strongly believe that creating additional regulatory frameworks, as proposed under Bill C-444, could only lead to extraordinary confusion and complication. Then innovation and competitiveness in Canada's vital communications would be stifled to the detriment of Canadian consumers and the businesses that serve them.

Given the current challenges confronting the broadcasting industry, the convergence of broadcasting and telecommunications, such a division of responsibilities risks introducing complexities and inefficiencies into the system that could hamper the competitiveness and the ability of companies to respond to new market and technological developments.

Let me elaborate on this point. We are all aware of the fact that Canada's broadcasting and telecommunications systems are in the midst of a fundamental transformation. We have talked about that on other matters before the House today. Important changes are being brought on by the rapid adoption of digital technologies, which are modifying Canada's communications landscape in unprecedented ways.

Established companies are facing competition from unexpected players. Lines between industries, companies, devices, platforms and content are blurring and, in some cases, completely disappearing. More and more, these developments are allowing Canadians to take greater control and participate actively in the creation and distribution of diverse Canadian content.

The rise of digital networks and platforms is also dissolving the territorial and technical boundaries that formerly limited Canadian companies, including Quebec firms, from reaching and exploiting global audiences. These very positive developments must not be restrained by additional layers of rules and regulations.

Clearly, the future economic potential of our communications companies is bright. Innovative businesses are responding with cutting-edge ideas designed to meet new consumer behaviours and expectations. We must avoid measures that could prevent them from harnessing the potential of the digital technologies that will contribute even more to Canadian competitiveness.

Canadian and Quebec entrepreneurs recognize that unnecessary complication brought on by jurisdictional splitting and the duplication of regulations in all likelihood would hinder their future growth and competitiveness. In question period, I had a number of questions from the hon. member from Quebec who spoke just previously. I quoted Mr. Pierre Karl Péladeau from Quebecor. I indicated that we as a government believed that Canadians wanted less regulation, not more.

Here is what this leading Quebec business person and leading broadcaster in Quebec had to say about the equivalent of a CRTC in Quebec. He said, “A Quebec equivalent of the CRTC would complicate, not simplify things. My position is fairly clear. I believe the solution is the deregulation of the industry”. That is what a gentleman from Quebec in the industry had to say. It is in the complete opposite direction of the Bloc's Bill C-444.

Adding complexity to regulation, which the passing of Bill C-444 would most certainly accomplish, would only hinder the capacity of our industries to meet the promising opportunities ahead to further develop and prosper and continue to offer Canadians a diversity of content and service choices.

Our government, which has a record of putting consumers first, strongly believes that fragmenting regulatory control and supervision would not be serving Canadians, including Quebeckers, well. In fact, they would be poorly served. Such action would result in additional cost and uncertainty for consumers across the country. This is of great concern to us and that is why we are formally opposed to Bill C-444.

Just previous to the debate on this bill, we talked about an issue, which I and the minister have termed as the "itax". It may be the simplest way to convey what we talked about a bit earlier. It is the recognition of digital technologies in the ever emerging landscape. We have to acknowledge that there is tremendous platform change occurring not only in this country but globally.

Today we live in an era where every person in the House, every person from coast to coast to coast in this nation could become a broadcaster if they wanted. All they need is a camera and a home computer. It is easy. That is the context in which we live.

Trying to put barriers around things and trying to put constructs up like what we built in the sixties, simply will not work in a modern media context, in a modern broadcast environment. The complexities and regulations that the bill would seek to put in place upon the province of Quebec would hinder, not assist, the Quebec cultural economy and artists in Quebec.

Everyone in the House can acknowledge that the cultural sector in Canada has really hit its stride, whether those artists are from Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, British Columbia, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, either of the territories, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, it does not matter. Canada has hit its stride culturally. We are leading the world when it comes to cultural innovations and creativity.

I am so proud of Canadian artists. What they do not need is a new regulatory body that would seek to hinder and restrict them with new regulations that would simply seek to rebuild something that existed from the past.

The Great Wall of China at one point was probably a very effective tool to keep invading armies on the one side, while those on the other side were safe. The Great Wall of China would not be very effective in defending a nation these days. The new technologies that have come in demonstrate that the walls of the past are simply very easily overcome.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased today to speak to this bill. At the outset, I want to note that the Liberals and the Conservatives seem to be onside, once again opposing this legislation. We saw them yesterday join together as one to try to support Bill C-2, the Canada-Colombia free trade agreement. Today we see them join together to try to stop Bill C-444.

At second reading we are dealing with the principle of the bill. I would think the Conservatives and particularly the Liberals should be open-minded enough to at least want to send the bill to committee so they could debate it, discuss it and try to amend it, If they do not agree with it at that point, after the amendment process is concluded, by all means, they can come back to the House and vote against it. However, to simply preclude the possibility of the bill going to committee is a very bad choice on their part.

The member who spoke for the Conservatives pointed out that we did not need a new regulatory body, that we did not need duplication of existing regulations. However, he is not prepared to give us the chance to even debate the issue further, to explore the issue in committee, perhaps call witnesses to the committee, look at the issue from all different angles and perhaps come up with a solution that would make everyone happy in the House, particularly the member who introduced Bill C-444. He is prepared to shut the door tight right at the beginning, defeat the bill and move on.

I do not think that is a good approach, particularly since the government finds itself in a minority situation. By the looks of it, it will always be in a minority situation. I see there are signs that it is beginning to accept that fact. There are some signs that it is tentatively making approaches to the opposition. I see it selectively dealing with the Liberals on the Canada-Colombia free trade issue and certainly dealing with other parties on other issues. I applaud it for that because it means it will survive longer as a minority government and it will, at a certain point, learn how to govern properly in a minority situation.

Up until now, it has been more or less a disaster for the government in the minority situation. Clearly from the very beginning, it could never accept the idea it was a minority and so it gave up on the idea, very early on, of trying to make a minority government work. It is going to take it a while to learn. There are some signs it is learning, but this is not one of them. The government should at least be open-minded enough to send the bill to committee.

My colleague from Vancouver Kingsway also spoke on this issue earlier today. He had indicated that the bill opened up a potential debate for members of the House to deal with public broadcasting and cultural policy in the country. My party and I are very strong believers in public broadcasting. I am a very strong supporter of the CBC. Many members here are of the same age or older than I am and will know that when we were growing up we only got one channel. It was the CBC and it was in black and white, so we had a very positive view of CBC programming in those days.

Things have developed and things have changed over the years. We now have multiple stations competing for the viewers and we have introduced the private sector.

The government, that is basically very dedicated to whatever the private sector wants, the private sector gets, is tied to deregulation. If we could redraw the map from a Conservative point of view, we would sell off or dismantle the CBC, turnover the whole market to the private sector, and while we did all of that, we would dismantle all the regulations. We would allow free enterprise to run its course.

We would have a situation develop where we would have the big guys gobbling up the little guys to the point where we would have just one or two broadcasters, media giants, in Canada and that is in fact what has happened.

Then we get to deal with the whole issue of the too big to fail syndrome. We have a situation right now with CanWest essentially going into bankruptcy because the original owners and founders of the company managed to load the company with $5 billion of debt. Then when the market downturn happened and the economy dove a couple of years ago, the bond holders were forced to take over the company. Now we see them basically selling off the assets to other corporate takers and that process is ongoing at this point.

Coupled with that we find ourselves in the middle of an extreme recession and the government announced last year that it was planning to sell off crown assets to, I believe, realize $2 billion.

I am not aware that it was able to do any of that last year, but I know the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance is listening very attentively and taking notes, I might add, and I am certain that this coming year the government will find a way to realize that $2 billion and maybe more by selling off public assets.

We on this side of the House have suggested that one of those public assets that it may be interested in selling off might be the CBC.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

That's not going to happen.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

The member says that is nonsense and that is not going to happen. Stranger things have happened from Conservative governments.

If the member says that is not going to happen, well then what is the government going to sell off? If the government is not going to sell off all or part of the CBC, privatize the CBC, then it should provide me a list of what it is going to sell off. The government has indicated that it is going to sell off $2 billion in assets. If it is not the CBC, then the member should tell me what it is.

The member now wants some suggestions. The member has the balance sheet of the government and it knows what the assets are. Believe me, it knows what it is planning to sell. I think the government is working quietly behind the scenes and maybe not so quietly to interest the private sector in buying.

OMERS has indicated that it is going to cash. It is going to set aside huge amounts of cash to do exactly what I have just been talking about: purchase government assets. If OMERS is doing that, then the other pension funds will be in the same situation. We will see what happens with the government.

As I said, I would suggest that the CBC is certainly on that list of items that the government is planning to divest itself of in the next little while. If it does not do it, it is not going to be for want of trying. It will bend over backwards to package that corporation, that asset, to make it as attractive as possible to the private sector, in essence I submit almost make it a point where it will practically pay the private sector to take it over.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I understand my time is up and I thank you very much for your time.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is a pivotal moment in the debate on Bill C-444, an extremely important time, because now the time has come to decide whether or not to send the bill to committee.

I listened to my colleagues' comments, from both the Conservatives and the Liberals. They had two major concerns about a vote on the bill. I will try one last time to convince them.

However, before anything else, I would like to thank the member for Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert from the bottom of my heart for her excellent work as culture critic for the Bloc Québécois. She has done an excellent job and is always professional.

One of the first concerns brought up by the Liberals was the issue of where the bill came from. It all started with Louis-Alexandre Taschereau in 1929, who was the Liberal Premier of Quebec at the time. The letter from Ms. St-Pierre to the Conservatives' Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages shows this. Historically, the Government of Quebec has always insisted that it should play a role in broadcasting and telecommunications. In 1929, it was the first government to legislate the broadcasting sector, given the need to safeguard Quebec culture and identity.

The Government of Quebec believes that the federal government must not act alone when it comes to broadcasting and telecommunications, and it would like to see the creation of concrete input mechanisms for the development and definition of federal policies, particularly concerning decisions related to activities that primarily affect Quebec and concerning content.

A Liberal minister is calling for the creation of a CQRT. Robert Bourassa called for that as well, as did Liza Frulla. We see that the Liberals have every reason to support their provincial colleagues and even their former colleague, Liza Frulla who, at the time, was herself a minister under the federal Liberal government.

We see that it would be in the Liberals best interest to continue in the logic they are trying to apply. Of course, knowing Liberal wisdom, when it comes time to vote in the House, there may be a different outcome.

The second concern was expressed by the Conservatives. They did not understand the importance of the CQRT and said it could create new regulations, a new organization and new problems. There would not be much more administration and bureaucracy; the intent is to decentralize. The Conservatives, the right-wing ideologues, should actually be in agreement with the idea of decentralization. Is it not logical that, by allowing the provinces to legislate in this area and to manage their own broadcasting commissions, there would be less administration and bureaucracy, which is in keeping with right-wing thinking?

The Conservatives would thus be very interested in voting for this bill for this as well as another reason. They recognized the Quebec nation in the House and it was voted on. Would passing this bill not be a fantastic tool and would it not give substance to the recognition of the Quebec nation? Instead of being just window dressing, this recognition would have real benefits for Quebec.

Those are two very good arguments directed at the Conservatives. As for the Liberals, they should follow in the footsteps of such colleagues as Ms. Frulla.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

The time provided for debate has expired. The question is on the motion.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

All those opposed will please say nay.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

In my opinion the nays have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Broadcasting Act and the Telecommunications ActPrivate Members' Business

2:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, March 31, 2010, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

It being 2:43 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday next, at 11 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2:43 p.m.)