House of Commons Hansard #50 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was forces.

Topics

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, nothing could be further from the truth. We have people signing up in record numbers. We have a high operational tempo. We have new flexibility injected into the capacity of the Canadian Forces to have members move from reserve to regular force and back again. Depending on the operational tempo, we make decisions on how to best meet the needs, whether they result in an increase in class B reservists, which we have seen during our time in Afghanistan, where we are at record numbers. As we draw down, as we leave Afghanistan, those numbers will obviously change.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC

Mr. Chair, between November and now there was prorogation and the minister may have forgotten a few things. The Conservatives were saying that there were fewer reservists because we are in a time of war, but that the situation would stabilize after the Afghan mission. Does the government still feel that way?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, members move from regular force to reserves. They are hired full time to fill specific tasks. Their contracts are generally entered into on a short-term basis. That is the nature of how the reserves work.

The hon. member would know as well that because of the tempo in Afghanistan, we have staffed up. We have in fact relied heavily on reserves during this period of our military history.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to keep asking the minister questions about the cuts to the Navy's budget. First, when did the minister find out that General Natynczyk was going to reverse Vice-Admiral McFadden's order?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, there has been no reduction in navy personnel. In fact, we are in a period of growth in all of the environments. We currently have about 1,800 new sailors who are in the pipeline, if I can put it that way, and are on course to join our ranks.

We currently have a shortage of about 1,000 in terms of the need. There are certain trades in particular where we are recruiting. We are in a period of growth. It is not shortage. It is trying to fill all of these positions, which is exactly what we intend to do.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, let me try again because I may not have been clear. I was talking about the Navy's budget, not its personnel. My question is: when did the minister find out that General Natynczyk was going to reverse Vice-Admiral McFadden's order?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, he knew there needed to be clarification after he spoke to me. That is how it works. I work very closely with the Chief of the Defence Staff and the Chief of the Maritime Staff. We make decisions in consultation. We have regular briefings.

The good news is the navy has more money in its budget this year than in its entire history of 100 years. It is in its centennial. We are seeing a $209 million increase in the navy's operating budget this year. They are at historic levels.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, during his press conference, General Natynczyk said that it was his duty to ensure that the minister is not caught off guard. Did the minister order General Natynczyk to reverse the vice-admiral's order? Did the general act of his own volition or did the minister and the general consult with one another ahead of time?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I just answered this question. We make these decisions in consultation with one another. I respond to requests from all of the environments on the advice of the Chief of the Defence Staff. As I mentioned, the navy has the money. It has the money in the budget to do the job that we expect of it: to patrol the three oceans that we have responsibility for in North America.

We continue to make tremendous contributions internationally. We just had the HMCS Fredericton return from the Gulf of Aden. The navy has historic levels of funding that will enable it to do the job that we expect of it.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, I will ask my question again. Since there is a hierarchy, can he simply tell us where the directive came from that reversed the order of the vice-admiral? Who gave that order?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, there was a need to clarify, which is exactly what we did. As Minister of National Defence, I make decisions in consultation with the deputy minister, assistant deputy minister and officials at the department, but most important from the chain of command. After speaking with General Natynchyk, we issued a clarification because there was misinformation, which I know the hon. member would not want to perpetrate here tonight.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, why, then, was the order not reversed internally? Why was the vice-admiral's order reversed publicly?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, we did both.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, did the minister order the general to turn his back on the vice-admiral? Is that what happened? The minister said that he did not agree with the vice-admiral's order after it was made public, and he then forced the general to reverse the vice-admiral's order. Is that what happened?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, the hon. member can ask this question as many times and as many different ways as she likes. What I have said to her consistently is that we make informed decisions based on the advice of the Chief of the Defence Staff, the Chief of the Maritime Staff, the army and the air force. We make decisions.

The Canadian Forces budget has increased overall, which will give them even greater capability to do the terrific work that they continue to do.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—La Prairie, QC

Mr. Chair, it is not clear at all, and that is the problem. The minister is saying one thing, but what actually happened is quite different.

When the order was given and then publicly criticized, the minister commanded the general to reverse the vice-admiral's order. The minister turned on the general, forcing him to turn his back on his vice-admiral. Is that what the minister is saying?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I know for certain that the hon. member does not want to misinform Canadians or make allegations that she cannot support. I know she does not want to do that.

I will reiterate once again that there are clear decisions and directives given with respect to budgets and allocations on the advice of the Chief of the Defence Staff. We are constantly--

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:30 p.m.

Conservative

Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Chair, I will share my five minutes with the member for Northumberland—Quinte West and the member for Calgary Centre.

I am pleased to take part in today's discussion, and will use this opportunity to expand on the minister's remarks regarding defence infrastructure renewal.

To begin, I would ask you to think about the tremendous demands on our Canadian Forces, at home, on the continent and abroad. At home—surveillance, sovereignty patrols, search and rescue, and support to security partners at special events and in response to natural disasters. On the continent—working with American partners to keep the skies of North America safe and provide a clear picture of maritime security threats. Overseas—contributing to international security through deployed operations and delivering humanitarian aid.

What does it take to ensure that the Canadian Forces can carry out all we ask of them, safely and effectively? The right people, well-trained, of course. And the right equipment, well-maintained. But there is also defence infrastructure. The hangars, roads, landing strips, docking facilities, accommodations, medical, training and recreational facilities—and much more. These are absolutely essential to the effectiveness of our military.

The right infrastructure—up to date and properly maintained—ensures that the Canadian Forces personnel and civilians on our bases and wings across Canada have the safe and healthy work environment they expect and deserve. It ensures they have suitable facilities for their accommodation, and for fitness and training. And it ensures they can house and maintain their equipment under the right conditions.

With stations, bases and wings stretching from Haida Gwaii to Alert to St. John's, National Defence infrastructure holdings are as extensive as they are varied: some 35,000 buildings and works assets serviced by 3,000 km of water, storm and sewer pipes; 2.25 million hectares of land—that is four times the size of P.E.I.; and 5,500 km of roads—enough to stretch from here to Whitehorse. These are impressive numbers.

However, much of this inventory is aging and in need of pressing upgrades or replacement. As well, DND must build or enhance infrastructure associated with the introduction of new capabilities. With good reason, defence infrastructure is one of the four essential pillars of the Canada first defence strategy.

This strategy calls for the replacement of 25% of the existing infrastructure over 10 years and 50% over 20 years. Let me give you an idea of some of the projects underway.

On the west coast, at CFB Esquimalt, a new facility is being built that will allow for the safe receiving, processing, storage and transportation of hazardous material and waste such as poisons, corrosive agents and flammable substances. Heading inland to CFB Wainwright, a water treatment plant is being upgraded to ensure safe and reliable drinking water to both the base and the town of Wainwright. Continuing eastward, a number of upgrades are being made to the airfield at 8 Wing Trenton, including the important work being done to accommodate the C-17 Globemasters.

As you might imagine, the huge Globemasters need infrastructure to match. DND will be reconstructing a part of 8 Wing Trenton's airfield so that it can support their massive weight. These aircraft have been hard at work for the Canadian Forces from their first operation in support of Jamaica, within a week of the first Canadian Globemaster touching down in Trenton, to their most recent operation, in Haiti.

Because the Globemasters are not the only new acquisitions that National Defence has to accommodate, Trenton will also get a new air mobility training centre to house the equipment and personnel required to train operators and maintainers of the C-130J aircraft. That is also supporting a real need. The aging Hercules that the C-130Js will replace have been in steady use for Afghanistan and Canadian Forces relief missions, and they have also been invaluable to operations at home, including search and rescue.

Communities in Quebec are benefiting from infrastructure renewal as well, with a variety of projects under way, including new facilities at Valcartier and Montreal for the LAV III, a versatile vehicle that has been serving our soldiers faithfully in Afghanistan. The LAV III facility at Valcartier will be used for day-to-day operations, maintenance and preparations for deployment of the vehicles. The Montreal buildings will be used for full maintenance, including repairs to battle-damaged machinery, LAV III mission preparation and vehicle decontamination. These new facilities will ensure that the LAV III continues to play a vital role in the future of our land forces for many years to come.

Atlantic Canada is also benefiting from infrastructure renewal under the Canada first defence strategy. 14 Wing Greenwood will get a new fire hall and a new health services centre in addition to four other projects, while 9 Wing Gander will get a new headquarters facility for 19 Airfield Engineering Flight and a new multi-purpose facility.

These and other improvements, completed or under way, are already making a difference for the men and women of the Canadian Forces and for civilians working at defence installations, adding to their safety, readiness and effectiveness.

The new and upgraded storage and maintenance facilities are helping to ensure the required equipment is available where and when it is needed. But the benefits of defence infrastructure renewal extend beyond the Canadian Forces' bases and wings.

Investments in National Defence infrastructure are helping us meet the targets of Canada's economic action plan. Our renewal efforts complement the plan by bringing economic activity to local communities through the creation of thousands of jobs across the country. For example, in addition to the 8 Wing projects I just mentioned, there were five other Trenton projects that the minister announced last September. The seven projects represent an investment of more than $340 million and will bring significant economic activity—an estimated 1,800 or more direct employment opportunities—to Trenton and its surrounding communities over the course of the work.

Overall, the cross-Canada defence infrastructure projects announced in the 2009-10 fiscal year alone have a total value of $1.8 billion and will sustain an estimated 4,320 jobs over the course of these projects. This is a very important consideration of the benefits of defence infrastructure renewal. It is also important to remember that there is more to managing infrastructure than updating and construction.

Maintaining assets in good condition, disposing of aging or surplus assets, managing heritage sites and exercising environmental stewardship are all part of the process. DND and the Canadian Forces demonstrate due regard for the environmental health of the lands with which they are entrusted. They practice pollution prevention in their everyday activities by reducing resource consumption and waste generation. And while keeping in mind the primacy of operations, they incorporate environmental considerations into their decision making. For instance, they use the latest assessment tools to integrate green building concepts into the design process of construction plans.

In conclusion, defence infrastructure renewal supports the delivery of defence operations by supporting our people, our equipment and our operational readiness. It also helps to ensure we have a first class, modern military, ready to take on the challenges of the 21st century.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Chair, as the minister knows, I have the great honour to represent the men and women who work so hard at one of Canada's busiest air wings in the country and that is CFB Trenton 8 Wing.

The Canada first defence strategy outlines infrastructure as one of its pillars. We know that National Defence is one of the largest landowners across Canada and the budget cuts of the 1990s under the previous Liberal government significantly impacted on the defence infrastructure across the country.

This Conservative government has begun the crucial task of re-equipping our forces. For example, the C-17s that our government bought and now fly out of Trenton are a vital link to our supply of material to Afghanistan. They were a crucial and integral part of our government's response to the earthquake in Haiti.

Alas, a lot of our military infrastructure is old and not designed for today's equipment.

Could the minister tell us what this Conservative government is doing to ensure that the airmen and airwomen at CFB Trenton and CFB members on other bases are getting the infrastructure they need to do the vital jobs we ask of them? Could the minister also explain to members of the committee what he is doing to ensure proper accountability and spending of taxpayers' money?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his question and also for his unwavering support of the men and women in uniform, particularly at CFB Trenton, of which he has said he is extremely proud. I have seen him there on a number of occasions.

He is absolutely right. We have an enormous amount of property, both real property and infrastructure, that includes some 21,000 buildings, and 800 parcels of land that cover 2.25 million hectares of land.

In line with our Canada first defence strategy, much of the investment that we are making over the next 20 years very much involves the refurbishment and investment in infrastructure spending. In fact, over the past 12 months, we have announced over $2.5 billion in construction projects, which illustrate our government's ongoing commitment to fulfill that contract that we have between government and the Canadian Forces in a Canada first defence strategy.

Just to give the members a taste of that, in response to this question, at CFB Trenton, in the member's riding, we have announced six projects, an investment of approximately $334 million in infrastructure at 8 Wing Trenton. They include the construction of maintenance hangars for the new C-17s that he spoke of, the Globemaster aircraft, that are so useful in allowing Canada to reach out and touch places like Haiti; the construction of a new air mobility and training centre there; the construction of a new electrical/mechanical engineering and transportation garage; a new refurbished facility for aerospace and telecommunications engineering support squadron; a new training accommodation centre; new material distribution; and the list goes on and on.

We are making these investments right across the country.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:40 p.m.

Conservative

Lee Richardson Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Chair, I am from Calgary where we have always had a pretty strong pride in and support of our men and women in uniform, and are particularly proud of them these days. It is great to be here.

We no longer have a base in Calgary. Some years ago it was moved to Edmonton by the Liberals. People think it was because of the national energy program for some reason, but we do not like Liberals because they moved our base away from Calgary.

We do support the troops. A couple of years back, we took 100 cowboys and cowgirls from Calgary to the Quebec winter carnival to put on a barbecue and western entertainment for 4,000 of the families of troops at Valcartier, the Van Doos, who had just been deployed to Afghanistan. It was a moving time.

I wanted to ask the minister about that. While we were at Valcartier entertaining those troops with our Calgary hospitality, I learned about Defence Research and Development Canada, the DRDC Valcartier, with its 400 employees and rich network of partners, and world leading expertise in defence-related information, protection and combat systems.

The research activities carried out at this facility help ensure that Canadian Forces are equipped with cutting-edge technology and directly impact their operations at home and abroad.

I understand that concrete steps have been taken to ensure that DRDC Valcartier maintains its world-class expertise and continues to attract the best scientists, and partners in the defence and security field to Quebec by investing in a major infrastructure upgrade at the facility.

Could the minister please fill us in on the particulars of that important project?

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I know the member for Calgary Centre has been a long-time supporter of the Canadian Forces and is famous for his hospitality.

The work that we are doing at CFB Valcartier was announced back in February of this year. It includes new offices, laboratories, support space, and represents a total investment of $170 million. This project, as has been mentioned in previous discussions, will employ a large number of local people. There is almost 1,000 job opportunities on this project alone.

Following the design phase, which begins this year and which is valued at approximately $13 million, the project is expected to be rolled out in three phases. First, there will be a prepping of the site for the DRDC Valcartier north site. It will then involve some of the infrastructure investments that will be placed in the ground: sewage pipes, water and electricity. This phase is valued at $37 million and will begin in 2012.

The second phase will constitute the construction of the actual—

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Andrew Scheer

I will have to stop the minister there. The time is up for that slot.

We will move now to the hon. member for St. John's East.

National Defence—Main Estimates, 2010-11Business of SupplyGovernment Orders

9:45 p.m.

NDP

Jack Harris NDP St. John's East, NL

Mr. Chair, I am glad to have a second opportunity to ask some questions. Fifteen minutes go pretty fast.

I will pick up where I left off on the F-18 fighter program. First of all, the minister said that we just finished, in March of this year, a mid-life refurbishment and upgrading of the existing jets, but yet they only seem to last for another seven years. I wonder if the minister could explain that, since we have had these going back to 1980.

The other question is, are we still looking at the replacement of 65 new jets? That number has been bandied around before. Is that still the number we are talking about?