House of Commons Hansard #123 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was countries.

Topics

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Madam Speaker, there were a lot of good points and questions. It is safe to say there is another way. One of our concerns is how quickly this bill is being spirited through this place.

There were amendments put forward by the NDP, essentially what my friend from Winnipeg was saying, that would have challenged the way in which this was being done and perhaps provide another way. At the end of the day, we are having to succumb to the wishes of another country.

All members travel and pay the airport tax now. That airport tax that the government imposed, which it does not like to say is a tax, is to pay for security measures imposed on us by the U.S. This is the same thing.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Madam Speaker, it is important for all members to speak to Bill C-42 because, even though it has not received a lot of media attention and journalists have not been writing the kinds of articles they should be writing about its implications, it does have implications for the average Canadian from coast to coast to coast.

I hope that as a result of the debate that has grown over the course of this week that we will see more interest from our Press Gallery and from our national journalists on this important question because Bill C-42 would have an impact everywhere in the country.

I will begin my remarks where the member for Ottawa Centre left off on what this bill actually says. It says that:

--an operator of an aircraft departing from Canada that is due to land in a foreign state or fly over the United States and land outside Canada or of a Canadian aircraft departing from any place outside Canada that is due to land in a foreign state or fly over the United States may, in accordance with the regulations, provide to a competent authority in that foreign state any information that is in the operator’s control relating to persons on board or expected to be on board the aircraft and that is required by the laws of the foreign state.

The bill states that someone's personal information can be handed over. That is not a small issue, particularly as we go through some of the personal information that will be handed over to the secret services of the United States and other foreign states. It is not information that any Canadian would want to have shared widely.

We know the extent to which security services share this kind of personal information. All of us see the chaos that is occurring in Egypt. We know that the secret service of the Egyptian government is one of the potential recipients of this kind of personal information. The information will not be held in any sort of secure place. It can be held for up to 40 years. We are talking about personal information that is completely out of the bounds of what is normally considered to be personal information protection.

The privacy question is completely gutted by this bill, and perhaps that is the reason we are not hearing many Conservative voices rising up to defend it. This bill is, quite frankly, indefensible. I think the Conservatives, particularly in light of what they purported to put out on a census, will have some great difficulty defending to their constituents what is a significant massive handover of personal information.

What is the kind of information that the Conservative government wants to hand over to the United States secret service and other foreign secret services? It begs the questions: why is the government not standing up for Canadians? Why has it not tried to negotiate any sort of agreement that takes into consideration the concerns that the Privacy Commissioner has brought forward?

Concerns have been raised by the Privacy Commissioner. A number of my colleagues in the Liberal Party said that her concerns do not matter but I have to disagree. It certainly does matter when the Privacy Commissioner raises a whole series of conditions around this exchange of information and the government does absolutely nothing to protect that personal information. That is a cause for great concern.

What is in the information that can be exchanged? As my colleague, the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore said, we are talking about a passenger's name record that can include credit card information, who the passenger is travelling with, the passenger's hotel, the booking information concerning the trip and also medical conditions. Medical conditions and credit card information then get sent abroad.

The government has not in any way tried to change that. The government seems to be trying to ram this legislation through. The Minister of Public Safety stood in the House in December and said that the bill needed to be passed by December 31 or the earth would collapse, the roof would fall in and all planes would be grounded.

I was on a plane yesterday and what the Minister of Public Safety said was complete balderdash. That has not happened.

The government needs to step back from what has been an hysterical attempt to ram the legislation through and start to justify why it wants to share credit card information and confidential medical information with foreign secret services regardless of the fact that it has no idea where the information will end up.

The information can be stored legally up to 40 years. We are not talking about information that is transferred and then destroyed according to very strict protocols. We are talking about information that is gone forever. Our personal information and the personal information of other Canadians across the country is out there. It is gone. This is a statement of fact and yet the Conservatives have not tried to justify in any way why they did not endeavour to put in place protocols that would allow for the destruction of that information on a very strict and time sensitive basis.

The other element here is that Canadians cannot find out what information is held about them and, if that information is inaccurate, they cannot in any way change that information. Personal information is sent to the United States and to other foreign governments and the information is held for decades in conditions we have no knowledge of and no control over. It is information that can never be corrected and we can never find out what that information is about.

It is absolutely absurd, when we look at the components of what is actually in the bill, that we have a government trying on the one hand to defend this wholesale transfer of Canadians' personal information, their credit card information, their medical information and other information, and, at the same time, it is the same government, as the member for Winnipeg Centre said earlier today, that wanted to shut down the census because it thought information like the size of a person's house was too sensitive to share.

What is wrong with this picture? The census is a valuable tool. The mandatory long form census was used to give governments an accurate idea of what was happening in the population, whether Canadians were moving to larger homes, whether more people were living within the same residence and to what extent government policies impacted people's housing arrangements and incomes. Those kinds of elements are vitally important for the government to act in the public good.

The Conservatives were screaming hysterically against the mandatory long form census and now they are bringing in a bill that would transport vastly more personal information all over high heaven, to security services wherever; the Egyptian secret service or the American secret service, and that information can be thrown about for decades without any sort of checks and balances or any type of controls.

The government either does not understand how hypocritical that looks to Canadians or it has been playing politics all along with the census information and is now playing politics in a very clear way with Canadians' personal information.

We have seen with the no fly list how the kinds of mistakes that are made can lead to people simply being unable to board flights. We have seen it with fine upstanding citizens, such as Senator Ted Kennedy, members of Parliament and well-known celebrities, who, through no fault of their own, found themselves on a no fly list and are completely incapable of getting themselves off the list.

Instead of trying to fix that, we have a government that is going into vastly darker, deeper recesses of the kinds of information sharing that is irresponsible and clearly not in the interests of Canadians. That is why in this corner of the House the NDP is standing up for those ordinary Canadians and saying no to this wholesale, irresponsible transfer of Canadians' personal information.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Madam Speaker, I am glad my colleague from British Columbia touched on the fact that the Conservative government got rid of the long form census because it was too invasive to Canadians, that we knew too much about Canadians, where they live, how many people were in their homes and where they worked, all good statistics that could be used by doctors, hospitals and municipalities.

In Bill C-42, the government would allow all kinds of information, even more information than was in the long form census, to go to these foreign countries.

I would like the hon. member from B.C. to try to explain to me why the change in the ideology between the long form census and Bill C-42 from the Conservative government?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Madam Speaker, the member from Nickel Belt has been a very strong defender of Canadians' privacy rights in this House of Commons. I am glad he is continuing to do that work on behalf of Canadians.

What we have is a government that is incredibly mean-spirited with Canadians at home. We have seen the kind of bullying that the government does. With governments abroad, we have seen it being incompetent and insipid. We also saw that with the softwood lumber sellout, the buy American sellout and the shipbuilding sellout. We will be talking about another agreement shortly with Panama, which is the same kind of sellout of Canadian interests.

The government is simply incapable of standing up for Canadians' interests.

However, I think the member for Nickel Belt has really stumbled on the key here. The government thinks it can manage Canadians, that it can do two things that are completely contradictory and hypocritical. On the one hand it says that it will abolish the census because of privacy concerns and then on the other hand it says that it will give credit card and medical information to secret services around the world. Mr. and Mrs. Smith of Nanaimo, B.C. will have their personal information distributed around the world. The government thinks, in its arrogance, that it can get away with that kind of contradiction because for the last two and a half years the Liberals have simply rubber-stamped everything the Conservative government brings forward.

Fortunately, in this corner of the House there is a proud NDP caucus standing up for Canadians and we will not let them get away with it.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Madam Speaker, the census issue may be an interesting example of privacy issues and the no fly list is another interesting example.

However this is taking Bill C-42 as a proxy to campaign on platitudes of “We are good and everybody else is not so good”.

The member asserted that credit card information would be required to be disclosed under Bill C-42. Could the member advise the House as to exactly where in the bill or in the regulations that is prescribed because that is contrary to the evidence that was given to the standing committee that reviewed this bill in detail?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Madam Speaker, it is very clear in reading the bill, which I am sure the member has read because he is diligent member, that the passenger name record is the information that is disclosed. The passenger name record includes credit card information. It is very clear when we read section 4.83 of the act where it states, “provide to a competent authority in that foreign state any information that is in the operator’s control”.

In the operator's control includes credit card information and medical information. I know that the hon. member does his due diligence most of the time but I think in this case I will have to beg to differ with him. I think the Liberals have fallen a bit short on their due diligence and in verifying just what information is being transferred.

Now that the Liberals understand that information, hopefully they will change their vote and will vote with us to defeat this bill so that Canadians will not have their private information thrown all over the world to secret services.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Is the House ready for the question?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

The question is on the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

(Amendment agreed to)

The next question is on Motion No. 1, as amended. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion, as amended?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

(Motion No. 1, as amended, agreed to)

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

moved that the bill, as amended, be concurred in.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

All those opposed will please say nay.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Strengthening Aviation Security ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And five or more members having risen:

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

The recorded division is deferred until Monday, February 7, immediately after private members' business.

Speaker's RulingCanada-Panama Free Trade ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

There are four motions in amendment standing on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill C-46. Motions Nos. 1 to 4 will be grouped for debate and voted upon according to the voting pattern available at the table.

I will now put Motions Nos. 1 to 4 to the House.

Motions in AmendmentCanada-Panama Free Trade ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

moved: Motion No. 1

That Bill C-46 be amended by deleting Clause 7.

Motion No. 2

That Bill C-46 be amended by deleting Clause 10.

Motion No. 3

That Bill C-46 be amended by deleting Clause 12.

Motion No. 4

That Bill C-46 be amended by deleting Clause 63.