House of Commons Hansard #14 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was post.

Topics

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for the great speech and for outlining very well the concerns on this side of the House as they relate to the survival of thriving small businesses in our country.

I am sure that he, like many of us, has received numerous emails from constituents. Just this morning I received an email from a constituent who said:

I want to take this opportunity to express my complete displeasure and impatience with the length of and the handling of the Canada Post strike by the federal government.

I strongly believe that Canada Post should be deemed an essential service in this country.

I cannot believe that we can allow this corporation to hold hostage, and in some cases, destroy businesses within this country.

Our economy is still barely lifting its head out of the valleys of the most recent recession, and there are companies that were fighting to survive.

He went on at some length and I will not read the entire email.

Has my colleague also received communications from constituents who are very concerned about the survival of small businesses? Also, does it not seem ironic that the NDP, which seems to champion small business, in this situation seems to be ignoring the needs of small business and, in some cases, actually is causing their demise?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Mr. Speaker, certainly I have received numerous emails from people in my riding who support the action the government is taking to relieve the tension on not just small businesses but workers as well.

I have had a call from one company that has had to close its doors because it has not received the cheques to pay its workers. The effects have been much wider than just the things that are going on.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Madam Speaker, since the members of the government have been quoting emails constantly today, I would like to quote from an email that I got just a few minutes ago.

The email is from George, who said, “Since Canada Post has locked out the workers and thus stopped the mail service in Canada, creating great hardships on businesses and families, does it seem just for the Government of Canada to punish its workers with Bill C-6? Indeed, since the full mail stoppage is caused by the management of Canada Post who directly answers to the Government of Canada, should the Government of Canada not be directing Canada Post to remove its lockout?”

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Madam Speaker, clearly the whole business started with the strikes which started with the workers. Eventually, a business cannot be run when these sorts of strikes occur.

The lockout is also part of Canada Post's requirement to get things going. In a way, it pushes us to make some decisions and help businesses get going again.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Madam Speaker, that was a very well-prepared speech the member for Don Valley East gave. I was struck by the fact that he was talking about how the government believes in free collective bargaining. The member also talked about a situation where the workers followed the rules, they got to the point where they started rotating strikes, but they offered to the company to return to work under the old contract rules. Then the company locked them out.

The government is legislating a settlement that is less than what the company was offering. Will the government remove that portion of the bill?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Madam Speaker, clearly the offer that is on the table is in line with the rest of the public sector that we are working with. There is absolutely no need to have it removed from the legislation.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Madam Speaker, I received some emails, and I quoted one, but I also got a phone call from a small business owner in a small community in my riding. She obviously is a very well-informed small business owner, but she is suffering because of this strike. She asked me why the Government of Canada through Canada Post has locked out the workers.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON

Madam Speaker, the answer is relatively straightforward. As a result of the rotating strikes, a business cannot run successfully. As such, it might as well be closed down while it is negotiating.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, it is great to add some comments on this subject which is something I feel quite passionate about. I have always been very fond of Canada Post. I have used it personally in many different ways and I have an immense amount of respect for postal workers. I truly appreciate having the opportunity to add a few comments in this debate.

Having said that, I look at Canada Post from the perspective of putting people first. I have had the good fortune of being able to knock on thousands and thousands of doors, possibly a few more than others here because of the byelection that was held last November. We need to bring this matter down to what people in our communities have to say about Canada Post.

During the byelection, I was at a community function at the St. Josaphat Selo-Villa on McGregor just south of Selkirk Avenue. The first question asked was with regard to Canada Post. Residents were hoping to get a mailbox located at the base of the seniors complex. They felt this would be of great value because the mailbox was quite far away and they did not feel safe enough, especially at night, walking out to Selkirk Avenue to deposit their mail. It was a very important issue for them. Of all the issues that were being talked about, this was an issue that they wanted to talk to me about. I indicated that I appreciated that and that I would raise the issue when provided the opportunity to do so.

Fortunately, things went well for me in the byelection and, lo and behold, I believe it was in January, who comes calling at my office but a Canada Post representative. Canada Post wanted to meet with me and other members of Parliament. I believe representatives went to different caucuses.

I was quite pleased with the timing because I had mentioned that story to someone else. It was nice to be able to engage the crown corporation and share some of the other issues I had heard about from seniors, such as graffiti. Graffiti is a serious problem in certain areas of Canada. There are pockets in Winnipeg North where there is a great deal of graffiti. Mailboxes came up at that time also.

I was able to have discussions with people at Canada Post Corporation. I was really pleased with the responses they gave. They mentioned the new postal boxes. I have since seen them and can appreciate why there will not be as much graffiti on them.

I cannot recall the person's position in the corporation, maybe corporate secretary, but she appeared to take my concern quite seriously in terms of wanting to do some follow-up. She was going to look at where other mailboxes were located for that seniors complex. I was quite impressed with the overall presentation that Canada Post Corporation provided.

The Liberal Party does not have a problem with the idea of a corporation making a profit. There are things that could be done with that profit that would be better than putting it into general revenues. For example, it could be invested in unfunded pension liabilities, as has been pointed out. Innovative mailboxes could be designed, as was pointed out at that meeting. Maybe it could be used to provide better services. The member across the way talked about the importance of mail services in rural communities. These are all wonderful ideas.

I would like to think with the revenues and profits Canada Post is generating that it is not only there to provide money to the government, but also to provide a basic service to all Canadians.

There are things we could be doing within Canada Post that would see us reaching into our communities in a much more positive way. I am not overly concerned in terms of whether Canada Post makes a profit some years. It is more a concern in terms of what it is that it is actually doing with that money.

We often talk about the public. I have heard from New Democrats and Conservatives of the importance of having continuity in that service and that it be there for the public.

I too have had the opportunity to have some discussions. One lady met me at the local McDonald's restaurant. I try to get there every Saturday. She had a problem because she wanted to go back to the Philippines, but she was waiting for a document to arrive from Buffalo. I checked with Buffalo and was told that it was in the mail. In this particular case, I can appreciate why there would be anxiety.

We can talk about seniors pensions and other things that are of critical importance and in which Canada Post is heavily relied on to deliver. Many members talk about how small businesses need Canada Post in order to reach out to the communities and generate the necessary revenues for them to employ people. They depend on Canada Post in order to get their products out to the market. I am very sensitive to that.

I mentioned at the beginning that I am very dependent on the post office. There are petitions circulating in my community. Like all members, I send out mailers. Constituents communicate with me. I have used the post office for many years as an elected official. I have been through two elections. Trust me, I have used Canada Post a lot in the last eight months. I am very dependent on Canada Post and the wonderful work the letter carriers, sorters and others do in providing what I believe is the best quality service in the world.

In terms of what has taken place, we need to act on what is in the best public interest. We need to ensure as much as possible that the public interest is being served, but I also passionately believe in the rights of workers.

I did not get a phone call from the union, nor would I expect one, but I can say that after a spontaneous meeting with Canada Post Corporation I did take the time to talk to some letter carriers. I know my letter carrier, maybe not by name, but I have said hi to him on several occasions. I have had the opportunity to get to know a few letter carriers. I know the people at the local post office. I have had the opportunity to serve postal workers in different ways.

I have done what I can in terms of making sure that I am in touch with the important issues. Canada Post told me that it had a much better system and my constituents would benefit from it. Areas would be assigned certain delivery times. An area would be serviced by one postal worker who would have a vehicle and would be able to cater to that area. I took that to the letter carriers.

I talked to a few letter carriers and they were not necessarily happy with what Canada Post was saying. They talked about the problems of having double packages on their arm and the inconvenience of doing that. It was not as wonderful as Canada Post tried to portray when we had that discussion. I can honestly say that I valued the discussion I had with Canada Post. However, I also valued the talk I had with some of the postal workers because there are two sides and one needs to listen to both sides.

What put us in this position? I think we should all be concerned about what we are being asked to do today. This is not a victory. In my opinion, this legislation should not even be here. If the government really wanted to have more harmony within management and the employees of Canada Post, there was another way.

There is no way the government could ever convince me that it had no idea that Canada Post would lock out the workers. I do not believe that for a moment.

Sitting in this chamber, I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of members on that particular issue. I posed the question two, three or maybe even four times, I am not sure, but I asked government members if they had any sense that Canada Post would do the lockout. They kind of skated around it. I received no direct answer and I believe that was because the answer was yes, that they did know Canada Post would have a lockout. I do not believe for a moment that Canada Post did not inform the government that it would have a lockout.

In essence, I believe the government might have even suggested or, at the very least, was comfortable with what Canada Post Corporation was suggesting in terms of having a lockout. Yet. no one on the Conservative benches has come forward to say that is not the case.

I think it is a fair assessment that we should believe the government was aware of the fact that Canada Post would be locking out its employees. The government had the opportunity, and I must say, still has an opportunity, to ensure that there would be more harmony by sitting down with Canada Post and saying that it is not appropriate to locking out at this stage.

Yes, we know that rotating strikes were taking place. However, I believe that the workers of Canada Post would have taken responsible action to ensure that issues of urgency in getting mail made it into the homes where it was important. I am convinced that would have taken place.

I believe that when we talk about collective bargaining, we really did not provide the incentive for Canada Post and, to a lesser extent, the union to sit down and negotiate in good faith and come to an agreement.

Instead, what I believe happened is that the government knew what was taking place at Canada Post and preferred to take us down this particular track. It was not interested in harmony between management and the union. I find that to be most unfortunate.

It has been pointed out by the Leader of the Liberal Party and many others that we should look at what the wage is in the act. I have heard members talk about it, whether they are debating the bill or answering questions, where the government is saying that there is a wage increase. Technically there is a wage increase from what it was. However, what the government forgets to say is that there was already an offer for an increase that was higher than what is being suggested in the legislation. It was agreed to by the management earlier.

I have a sense of what the Minister of Finance said but I will not repeat it. He suggests from his seat that the employees should have taken it. That is a terrible way of looking at it, I would suggest. In the Minister of Finance's generosity from his seat, why does he not say that we will allow them to have that back?

We are very open-minded in the Liberal Party. We are an open-minded group of members of Parliament. We see this as an opportunity to take action on what the Minister of Finance has suggested. Let us give it back to them. Why not?

Instead, the government has legislated a decrease from something that was being proposed earlier. I do call that highly suspicious in terms of how that speaks for good, future labour negotiations. I think we should all be concerned about that sort of a mentality of negotiations. I have never seen that before.

That brings me to the next topic. I believe the New Democrats could learn a great deal if they listened to individuals like the Leader of the Liberal Party and many others.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

An hon. member

We tried for four years.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Remember, no heckling. No heckling was your leader's rule, right?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

An hon. member

It was.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

It is okay. I do not mind if the member heckles.

I believe I was told that there were 33 occasions when there was back to work legislation brought to this wonderful chamber. I am told that the New Democrats have never supported back to work legislation.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

An. hon. member

That is because we support workers.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

No, it is not because of workers. It is because they have not been in government. The moment they are government, trust me, their opinion will change. All they need to do is look at NDP administrations at the provincial level. I have talked to union workers who have worked for MCI in Winnipeg. The point is that when I look for the NDP members to answer a question, they will not answer the question.

The question is very simple. Are there any circumstances members can foresee or imagine that is possible in which they believe that back to work legislation would work? Any imagination--

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. Questions and comments. The hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

5:55 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest to my colleague and he seems really convinced. He used that term multiple times throughout his speech. The problem is that every time he uses that term, it is based on speculation as to what the government may or may not have done prior to tonight.

I am wondering if my colleague would confirm that he has also heard from multiple constituents in his riding who are concerned about the negative impact that this prolonged work stoppage is having on the economy, especially as it relates to small and medium businesses.

I want to just complete some of the email that I was starting to read earlier. This gentlemen wrote an email to my office this morning stating:

Our economy is still barely lifting its head out of the valleys of the most recent recession, and there are companies that were fighting to survive. Our specific company happens to be in such a financial position that even though this strike is severely affecting our cash position, our survival is not at stake. I do know, however, of companies that I am dealing with on a daily basis, that could very well not make it. Because of the "strike situation", many companies are reluctant to put Payment cheques in the mail, and thus the money changing hands between corps has dried up to a trickle.

I would like my colleague to confirm that he has also heard from constituents in his riding who are very deeply concerned about the negative impact. Why would he not stand up for small businesses at a time when the economy is still on a very fragile recovery track?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I have. Just last Saturday I had someone in McDonald's talking to me about a very serious situation.

The hon. member kind of twists things around. He says that it is a strike and he refers to it as a strike but it is not a strike. It is a lockout. The government had a choice. The government did not have to support Canada Post locking out its employees.

I appreciate why government members are so persistent on calling it a strike. It is because they believe they can win the public debate on it. Let us make it very clear. It is not a strike. It is a lockout. There is a huge difference.

In fairness to the people of Canada, we need to make that point. We should not try to demonize the Canada Post employees because they are wonderful, hard-working people who have committed many years of tremendous work and we should be appreciating that work.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

NDP

Robert Chisholm NDP Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Madam Speaker, when government members speak, they talk about the damage that this lockout is having on the economy. Would the hon. member not agree that if the government were so upset with the lockout and the damage it was doing to the economy, it would fire every one of the executives of Canada Post who were responsible for the lockout, for the intimidation of workers by denying health and disability benefits and get them back to the negotiating table. Would he care to pontificate on that one?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

In fairness, Madam Speaker, I must say that would include having to fire the minister responsible for Canada Post Corporation, because, after all, he played a very important role in the lockout itself.

I do want to put my NDP colleagues on notice that I am anxious to know if there are any circumstances in which the federal New Democratic Party would support bringing in back to work legislation. Are there any circumstances whatsoever? I would be genuinely interested in hearing that. It is a question that I will no doubt, if I get the opportunity, continue to ask.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL

Madam Speaker, I would like the member for Winnipeg North to elaborate a little bit more on the NDP's position on back to work legislation. In particular, he was just about to make a comment about some provincial NDP members who had supported back to work legislation. It appears that in this chamber the NDP would never support that, but the NDP has done it provincially.

I am wondering if the member could explain. He was just about to get to that point.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, the member asked an important question.

There seems to be a difference between the NDP in opposition and the NDP in government. When in government, NDP members tend to want to govern more like Liberals.

In fact, NDP administrations have brought in back-to-work legislation. I recall one incident that happened around 2002 at, I believe, MCI when the NDP premier became directly involved and upset a great number of union workers by recommending that they should vote again.

That was the NDP in power. I can appreciate the sensitivity and the differences.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Madam Speaker, I listened intently to the member across the way.

It was about half an hour ago that members of the NDP were praising Copenhagen. I have to give the NDP credit for being consistent. Those members have consistently, over the year, tried to do things that would not be good for the economy and would increase taxes for Canadians.

I think of the Liberals. Back in 2007 they wanted to have a carbon tax. In 2008 they praised the carbon tax. In 2009 they wanted a carbon tax, and again in 2010. We have heard from the NDP today that it would like to have a carbon tax similar to what Copenhagen has.

Those members are not happy with the gas prices now. Do they want them higher? Does the Liberal Party still want to have higher taxes for Canadians?

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, that was an interesting question to say the least. Let me try to answer it in this fashion.

I am very dependent on Canada Post to be able to circulate petitions and to get feedback from constituents on important issues, such as the issues that the member has raised. I look forward to being able to share well into the future many of those issues through mail that those letter carriers will be delivering to homes and that they ultimately will make sure gets back here to the House of Commons.

This chamber will always be somewhat aware, if not always aware, of those issues that are important, such as the retrofit program. It was a great Liberal idea, one that the government of today seems to take as an every-other-year type of thing. A good petition could potentially be out there trying to make sure that the program is on a five-year basis, which would generate more jobs and things of that nature.

Resumption and Continuation of Postal Services LegislationGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Madam Speaker, for my friend from Winnipeg North who asked what the NDP would do in such a situation, I have a simple answer. He should ask his leader, the member for Toronto Centre.