Debates of Oct. 3rd, 2012

Food Safety

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Call for the minister's resignation.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is incredibly sad that the health of people is at risk and that individual keeps heckling. There are serious consequences to people becoming ill.

We have expanded the mandate of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. We have increased the number of individuals who are working on this issue. The opposition is scaring Canadians and making partisan points regarding a food system that has some minor problems. We are looking forward to fixing those problems.

I would ask the hon. member for Medicine Hat if his constituents are concerned about how the opposition is making a partisan debacle out of this issue. This is a very serious issue that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order. The hon. member for Medicine Hat.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, this definitely is an issue that is of concern across all party lines. We do not want to make this into any kind of political issue. We want to ensure that those individuals who are having problems get the appropriate medical attention.

As well, we need to keep in mind that others are also affected, such as the workers and the city of Brooks. We need to work with the CFIA to ensure that inspections and corrections take place as quickly as possible so that XL meets all of the standards. Then those people will be able to go back to work at the facility to send our great Alberta beef products right across the country as well as abroad.

[Fin Donnelly, NDP, New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Welland for his passionate remarks and also for his request for this emergency debate tonight. It is very timely and important.

The member across the way mentioned efficiencies. I also heard about the broadened powers of the CFIA.

The Conservatives are big proponents of increased self-regulation. If we consider what that actually means, it means there are more inspectors looking at paper as opposed to meat.

I also want to emphasize that the Conservatives need to accept responsibility for gutting food safety resources. They talk about adding resources. They are telling us that they have a world-class food inspection system. If that is the case, why do we have this problem at the XL Food plant, the biggest food recall in Canadian history? It is a simple question.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, contrary to what the hon. member said, we have actually increased the funding to the CFIA. There are 700 new inspectors; 170 meat inspectors. There are six new meat inspectors in the XL facility.

[An hon. member]

Where are they?

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. members over there would be quiet, I would be able to respond to the question. I am being interrupted. The hon. member sitting over there already has put his foot in his mouth. He has his own problems.

Our government is very interested in making sure that this is corrected as quickly as possible. I want to remind members that this facility will not reopen until such time as the CFIA has actually given it clearance.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Burnaby—New Westminster.

I congratulate my colleague on his speech. I want to point out that the Canadian Food Inspection Agency has a role to play. As elected representatives, we also have a role to play. Where does the responsibility of the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food lie in this issue? We do not see it, and that is worrisome.

This is the largest recall of meat in history. It is worrisome and really incredible in 2012. How can a country like Canada find itself in this situation?

On September 4, tests revealed a risk of E. coli contamination. The United States found out about the contamination on September 3. Last week, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency announced the suspension of the operating licence of the XL Foods processing plant in Brooks, Alberta. This means that the plant remained in operation for over three weeks after the first suspicions, until September 27. This is unacceptable. Thousands of Canadians were exposed to E. coli because of this delay.

Why wait 24 days to close a plant where such a problem had been detected? That is the question. It seems to me that, faced with such a situation, it is better to proceed with caution and to take action as soon as there is a risk that food safety for Canadians may be compromised.

It took several days of investigation and tests for the CFIA to come to the conclusion that it was necessary to shut down the plant in Alberta. That is what we condemn. It is not only the safety of Canadians that is at stake, but also our trade relations and our credibility with the public.

Since September 16, the CFIA has issued at least eight alerts for recalled beef products from the XL Foods plant, because it fears E. coli contamination. This recall affects thousands of products. The recall of meat is growing every day. In Quebec, the recall of beef products that may have been contaminated with E. coli is getting larger.

In addition to the ground beef already identified elsewhere in the country, there are now other meat cuts sold all over Quebec. Even more worrisome is the fact that the recall also includes unlabelled and no-name beef products sold in retail stores, local meat markets and butcher shops. People are worried, and understandably so.

I would like to read some comments I received from the people of Berthier—Maskinongé. Before the E. coli crisis, I asked the people of my riding what some of their concerns were. Here is part of a letter from a woman from Saint-Alexis-des-Monts:

The reinstatement of Canadian Food Inspection Agency inspectors is urgent and crucial. Canadians should be able to buy any of the food offered for sale in Canada with full confidence.

This comment was sent to me before the crisis. Does anyone here believe that Canadians can trust the food inspection system? A system that took 24 days to close a plant that was producing contaminated meat? A system that took 12 days to even warn Canadians? A system that allowed tainted meat to make its way to our store shelves? I do not think so.

Another woman wrote, “We have 18-month-old twins and when we read labels, it is very worrisome.”

Parents should not have to worry about what they are feeding their children. In Canada, it seems they do need to worry. We should be able to trust our food safety system. As a mother, my thoughts are with Christina Lees, whose son Elijah got sick. She said she felt powerless and was angry that her son got sick and that it could happen to other people.

As parents and elected officials, we have a job to do. The minister has a responsibility. This is the second time this has happened in five years. If it were one of our children or one of our family members who became sick because of E. coli, would that make a difference?

Would changes at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency happen more quickly? Perhaps.

Why did it take so long to act, and more specifically, why did the government not learn its lesson from the listeriosis crisis? I get the impression that the recent cuts to CFIA are setting us back five years.

Food inspection is less regulated. It seems obvious that the government took a long time to act because of a lack of resources. The Conservative government's draconian cuts and the limited resources at CFIA increase the risk of this happening again.

This spring, the Conservatives tabled their Trojan Horse budget. I do not think anyone has forgotten that massive bill. How could we forget a 425-page bill?

In that budget, the Conservatives decided to take an axe to public services, and Canadians are paying the price. Food inspection is extremely important. That is not the place for budget cuts.

According to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's reports on plans and priorities for 2012-13 and 2014-15, planned spending is declining by approximately $46.6 million, and the number of full-time employees is going down by 314.

On April 25, 2012, I asked what effects the cuts would have on food safety, and the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture responded, “...what I said was that no cost-cutting measure will compromise food safety.” Look at where we are now.

Look at the situation we are in now. We have the largest beef recall in Canadian history. That is a big deal. When a government makes cuts to food inspection, there are consequences. The work that inspectors and veterinarians do is essential to Canadians' safety.

The Conservatives love to talk about their food safety bill, Bill S-11. They also love to say that the New Democrats will vote against this bill. First, I never said that I would vote against it. We need more measures to protect food safety in Canada.

The truth is that this bill was introduced in the Senate instead of the House of Commons. Why? This means that we have not had the chance to debate this bill, because it is currently being debated by non-elected officials. Why would they introduce it in the Senate? Are the Conservatives afraid?

If they are proud of their bill, why not introduce it in the House of Commons? Why not let my colleagues debate it in the House? That is what we are waiting for.

In the summer of 2008, the listeriosis crisis resulted in the recall of Maple Leaf deli meats. This crisis shook consumers' confidence and revealed obvious flaws in the food inspection system.

Some of the findings of the independent investigation that the federal government asked Sheila Weatherill to conduct following the 2008 listeriosis outbreak included a lack of focus on food safety among senior management in both private and public domains, a lack of planning and preparation, and a lack of communication with the public and among the various organizations.

At the time, the first case of food poisoning related to the consumption of a product made at the Maple Leaf processing plant was reported the week of June 1, 2008. The first recall was issued on August 17. In the meantime, products that were potentially contaminated with listeria continued to be sold across the country. The current situation bears a striking resemblance to that incident.

Many recommendations were made. Ms. Weatherill urged the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to establish product control requirements following positive test results for listeria on food contact surfaces. This measure would make it possible to ensure that contaminated food was withdrawn before it was distributed to consumers.

As a result, the government took steps to prevent such a situation from happening again. However, the government now wants to do more with less. We all know we cannot do more with less.

Wishful thinking will get us nowhere, and food safety for Canadian families must be paramount.

We cannot put a price tag on food safety.

When will the Conservatives demonstrate transparency to the Canadian public? When will the government take action to ensure the safety of Canadians? When will the government admit that it is responsible for this situation?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture]

Mr. Speaker, the member spoke about food safety and the NDP's commitment to food safety. She also spoke about Bill S-11, which is in the Senate. We have just been informed today that in fact the NDP may not be voting against it. I would like to know what the member likes in that bill and what she does not like in that bill, because the bill will be coming to the House and I would like an assurance as to whether or not she will be voting for it.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I do have the bill and I think it is a good piece of legislation. This is a step in the right direction, but it needs more meat on its bones. This is not enough.

We actually have some quotes if I could find them in time.

With regard to Bill S-11, Bob Kingston said that, unless the government committed to providing the necessary resources, Canadians could not expect to see improvements to food safety as a result of this one bill.

This is not enough. We have other statements saying this is not enough.

I will vote for it, but we will have many amendments and I hope the members opposite are open to them.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the member sits on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. There has been a great attempt tonight by the parliamentary secretary, using the same old talking points, to try to shift the blame from ministerial accountability and responsibility to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

We are still trying to determine what rock the minister is hiding under tonight after he escaped the press conference this afternoon and hauled the president of CFIA away from speaking to the Canadian people.

I ask the member, as she has sat on the committee—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. The hon. member for Selkirk—Interlake is rising on a point of order.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

Mr. Speaker, even though we are in an emergency debate, the rules of the House still apply. We cannot refer to any member being absent from the House.

I would ask the member for Malpeque to retract that statement.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

The hon. member for Malpeque is well aware of the rules. As he knows, who is or who is not in this chamber should not be referenced directly. I am not sure if that is what he did, but could the member for Malpeque also quickly come to his question?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Yes, I could, Mr. Speaker. I do not think I said whether the minister is here or not. I just asked what rock he was hiding under.

The member has sat on the committee, which had the Canadian Food Inspection Agency before it several times as well as the minister. Who does she think is ultimately accountable and responsible for this issue, the biggest food recall in Canada? Is it the same minister who was in charge when 23 people died a few years ago?

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I really do enjoy working with you on the committee. You too, Pierre—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

I am not on the committee, but could the hon. member address her comments to the chair.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, obviously, it is the minister's responsibility. Why do we have ministers if they are not held accountable? He has to be held to account. This is the second time it has happened. Do we need someone else to pass away? I think this is enough.

As I said, if one of our family members got sick, would the situation be different? Would we be having this debate? There would have been more movement. I think something would have happened faster. I do not want anyone else to get sick.

We are elected members of Parliament. We have a job to do. Enough passing the blame, let us move to action.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was sad to hear, just a few moments ago, the Minister of State (Finance), who I have a lot of respect for, say that this was a minor problem. It is fair to say that from the perspective of the family of five-year-old Elijah who experienced liver failure and severe sickness as a result of this contamination and from the perspective of the 12, 15 or 20 families affected, we really do not know how many yet, it is not a minor problem at all. It is a very serious problem.

I would like to thank the member for Berthier—Maskinongé for her comments in the House. I simply do not accept the sense that I am getting from the government that this is not its responsibility and that somehow it is someone else's fault, the CFIA's fault, the opposition's fault or some other dark force's fault, and not its fault that as a result of the cuts that we have been speaking to tonight a couple dozen families now have someone with severe sickness. It is not anyone else's fault. It is the government's responsibility to ensure that our systems are safe and the food that we eat is safe. What has happened over the last few weeks is that those systems have failed.

I would like to take a few moments to explain what I feel is the smoking gun for what has transpired over the last few weeks. The member for Welland was very detailed in his presentation. He went over every week of the outbreak as families fell sick, as the recalls seemed to cascade, one on top of the other, and the government seemed incapable of acting effectively. The important date is September 13. I know there are a lot of people across the country listening to this debate tonight so it is important to explain what happened on September 13 and how that has had an impact on our food systems overall.

On September 13, as the member for Welland spoke about just a few minutes ago, the CFIA removed XL. It is a plant that I have visited. I stood with the workers outside that plant just a few years ago with the member for Hamilton Centre. I visited that plant and know the workers and the plant well. On that date, the U.S. permit was pulled. XL was banned from exporting meat to the United States because of contamination. Obviously, there were fears then that exporting that meat would make people in the United States sick.

There was no recall in Canada. There was no protection for Canadian families. Other Canadian families have gotten sick since that date. However, that very same day, September 13, 2012, as the export permit was pulled due to fears of U.S. families getting sick, the meat continued to be shipped into Canada.

On September 13, as well, 481 employees in CFIA received affected notices, which are potential layoff and transfer notices. The very same day we have an outbreak of enormous proportions, such as we have never seen before in our meat supply in Canada, and that is the day that the government chose to send out to nearly 500 CFIA employees notices indicating they will be either laid off or transferred out of CFIA.

That is incredible. It is incredible that the very day we are seeing this tragedy unfold, the Conservative government says it is going to cut back even further. We have heard a lot tonight about what the government has done around cutbacks and how that may have contributed to the tragedy we see before us.

Let us look at what has actually happened over the past few years since the listeriosis outbreak. When we talk about meat hygiene and slaughter program inspectors at that plant, there was no increase in the number of positions.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Six new ones.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

There was no increase in the number of positions. There has been what I think is a lot of misinformation coming from the government side. There were 46 positions before. There are 46 positions now. That did not change.

When we hear government saying things that are inaccurate, the Canadian public is very intelligent and they can connect the dots. There were 46 positions before and now there are 46 positions.

The important thing to remember in all of this is that over that period with the same number of inspectors, the volume of meat being processed at that plant increased by 20%. With a 20% increase in the volume being processed at that plant and the number of inspectors, regardless of what the government says, was never increased.

This is the real tragedy. On September 13, the government slashed 500 positions from the CFIA and sent out affected notices. At the same time, over the last few years, despite the government's pretense around dealing with what is a very serious issue, the issue of food safety, in that plant, as the volume increased, the number of inspectors was not increased. There was a 20% increase in volume, a 20% increase in the workload and the government did not increase the number of inspectors.

The proof there is that compliance was transferred over to the company itself. It was self-serve safety. It was simply going to let the company take care of itself. The government was not going to increase the number of inspectors, even though the volume was increasing. It was just going to pretend that it had dealt with what should be a very important food inspection system by letting the company take care of it.

The company did not take care of it. Through the evidence that the member for Welland presented, we have seen that over the course of the weeks the tragedy increased. We still do not know how many additional Canadian families will have a severe sickness. We still do not know, given the size and scope of the recall and the fact that it has to stretch right across the country, if other families will be sick tonight.

Through all of that, and this is what I find the most disconcerting being in this House of Commons, we have not had a single government spokesperson stand up and say, “We were wrong to do this.” We have not had a single government spokesperson stand up and say, “Sorry” to the Canadian public, “We should not have cut back. We should have increased the number of inspectors. We apologize for not taking care of you.”

That is what government should do: be responsible. Through this entire week, despite the fact that we have had questions from the member for Welland, the member for Berthier—Maskinongé and repeated questions in the House, we have not seen the minister who is supposed to be responsible stand up a single time this week to respond to the questions about what he knew, when he knew it, whether he understood the impacts of the cuts, whether he understood what not increasing the number of inspectors when the massive volume increased by over 20% meant, and why he did not make any of those key decisions that would have perhaps resulted in our avoiding what is now a second tragedy from the government.

This is really what this emergency debate is all about. This is why the opposition asked for this emergency debate. We are asking for answers. We have been trying to ask questions in the House. The Minister of Agriculture has not stood up a single time to explain to Canadians what happened.

We had a news conference where the CFIA president was trying to give Canadians an explanation but was pulled away from the media by a political staffer. He was pulled away from the journalists who were asking questions on behalf of Canadians and he was not able to respond.

Tonight, we have not had a single representative from the government stand up, look Canadians in the eye and say, “We are sorry. We were wrong not to increase the number of inspectors. We are sorry. We were wrong to cut back by 500 positions the very day that XL Foods was banned from exporting meat to the United States because it was afraid of consumers in the United States getting sick.”

Canadian families deserve to have a food safety system they can trust, so that when they buy that food they can trust that it will be safe for themselves and their families. Canadian families deserve much better than what they have gotten from the government. We would like to hear some answers from the government tonight. We would like it to explain what went wrong and how it will fix it.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to go back to budget 2012 where, very clearly, spending for food safety did increase by $50 million. The member points out that, no, there were cuts to the CFIA. I do want to put a question to him that is very pertinent to the budget.

In three provinces here in Canada, there are more than 50 federal food inspectors who are doing the job of provincial food inspection. This makes no sense at all. So, that budget moves the financial resources and the inspectors over to the province where they rightly belong, where they will carry out provincial food inspections as provincial food inspectors.

Does the member call that a cut or does he call it a transfer? I call it a transfer, but how does he see that?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Mr. Speaker, for the families who have fallen sick as a result of what was clearly a government's irresponsible actions, I do not think the words matter too much. What matters to them is that their food has not been safe because of the actions of the government. What matters to them is 481 CFIA food inspectors being transferred out or laid off because of the cuts that came as a result of the budget of last spring. Three hundred and eight positions that the government acknowledges it was cutting. Now we are up to 481.

What matters to Canadians is having safe food.

We are saying on the floor of the House of Commons, speaking for Canadians right now, that the government has to fix what it broke. It has to restore confidence in our food safety system. So, get to work. Please do the job.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Burnaby—New Westminster his thoughtful and passionate remarks. He expressed some alarm over what events occurred on the 13th, alarm with which I, frankly, agree.

I wonder if he has the same alarm, same concern, over the length of time between the date on which Canada became aware of the E. coli on the 4th and the time on the 16th, 12 days later, when it finally issued a recall, 3 days after the event on the 13th when the Americans decertified the plant.