House of Commons Hansard #181 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was nation.

Topics

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Resuming debate. The hon. member for Davenport.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to have this opportunity to speak to Bill C-27, An Act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of First Nations.

Those watching this debate at home may be scratching their heads about the title of the bill. Canadians know that if there is one thing the government has failed on, it is accountability and transparency. The Conservatives attack every group in the country that does not agree with their right-wing agenda and they enforce transparency and accountability rules that they refuse to follow.

We only need remind ourselves of the $50 million spent in the G8-G20 debacle in the riding of the President of the Treasury Board. We are now debating the fact that the government spent millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of dollars on a botched F-35 process that did not go out to public tender. The government has no credibility with regard to accountability and transparency. Canadians are right to be concerned about this. Certainly first nations communities have almost unanimously rejected the proposal before the House today.

A concern that we and many leaders in first nations communities have is the gathering of more power in the minister's office. We see this as a trend with the government. The Minister of Canadian Heritage is telling museums how to curate. The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration wants to be the sole arbitrator on who is allowed to come to our country and who is not. The Minister of Public Safety wants to look at emails. Now, with this legislation. the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development would be allow to withhold funds to first nations communities if these onerous accountability and disclosure rules were not followed the way in which the legislation would require them to do.

This is the kind of thing the government does routinely. Whether it is an NGO, union or first nations community, the government looks for ways to keep these groups under the burden of massive accountability and disclosure regimes in order to hamstring them.

There are real issues in first nations communities, which first nations have brought up with the government. They and we on this side of the House expect the government to work with first nations communities to solve these problems and not just impose arbitrary rules on them, rules that are already in place. First nations communities are some of the most transparent organizations in the country and the rules are already on the books. However, what is not on the books is the fact that the government has failed first nations communities. It has failed to discuss issues and engage with first nations communities. It cannot simply impose these requirements on communities that have their own systems and governance, which are extremely transparent.

I also want to discuss the fact that while the government refuses to address key issues in first nations communities, in some cases it requires the governance of those communities to, for example, post private information on websites. How does this enhance accountability, especially when the First Nations Regional Health Survey found that only 51% of first nations homes had Internet access and that dropped to 36% in homes with incomes under $25,000, the majority of which is on reserves?

That speaks to the issue of poverty and the lack of economic development and the lack of meaningful engagement on the part of the government with first nations communities to address the key concerns.

The government has told the management of band councils that it has to run through a million more hoops, put its information on a website in order to allow members to properly peruse the financial statements of first nations communities, when by and large the majority of the members on reserves would not be able to access that information online anyway. It begs the question as to how serious the government really is about this issue and what the real motivations are behind this kind of bill. We see this time and time again. The government uses one small example and casts a shadow over an entire organization, or an entire group or an entire nation in this case.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation, another right-wing Conservative-friendly group, likes to make outrageous claims about first nations salaries. The average salary for chiefs is $60,000 and the average salary for councillors is $31,000. Fifty per cent of chiefs earn less than $60,000 and only five per cent earn more than $100,000. We are not talking about a system of financial abuse here, but this is the spin that gets put on this to justify this kind of legislation.

It is also important to look at this in the context of other legislative bodies in our country. For example, in Nova Scotia summaries of ministers' expenses are located at the legislative library for public viewing. In the Northwest Territories the government only publishes travel expenses of ministers and does not require salary disclosure of elected officials or senior public servants.

More important, the rules are already in place that very much adjudicate the fulsome transparency that is required, that first nations communities expect for themselves. These requirements are strong and muscular and they also require communities to make these disclosures available to members.

What is confusing is the government has not really answered a question. If the government's intent is to make these disclosures more available to members, then we can have that discussion. However, nowhere in this have we had that discussion, especially if the way the delivery of this public information is online when roughly only 36% of those on reserves can access the Internet. That is not a plan for more widespread access to this information.

The government is not really being serious about this issue and part of the reason is because the information is already available. Under the current requirements, first nations must submit to an annual audited consolidated financial statement for the public funds provided for them. These include salaries, honoraria and travel expenses for all elected, appointed and senior unelected band officials. The latter includes unelected positions such as those of executive director, band manager, senior program director and manager. First nations are also required to release these statements to their membership.

We have heard throughout the day that rules are on the books right now for proper disclosure, but that this is about making it accessible to the membership. First, the rules are already in place to make this information available and accessible to the membership and this legislation does not nearly address the key concerns of the communities.

The fact that the minister himself or herself would have the ability to arbitrarily withhold funds for schools, for social services, for water is unacceptable to us on this side of the House.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Kenora Ontario

Conservative

Greg Rickford ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the intervention of the member for Davenport. He is kind of a Mini-Me version of the member for Timmins—James Bay. He tried his best to figure out from Davenport what would be applicable to first nations communities in many vast regions of the country. He would know, or he should, that the government, just by way of example, invested more than $80 million into state-of-the-art Internet service for communities covering Northern Ontario, which is an area larger than most European countries. We understand there are structural challenges and with respect to the bill, there are alternatives for supplying the information.

My question is in respect to his word “adjudicate”. The fact is that this information is not directly accessible by community members from their community. That creates the issue of self-governance. It is a conversation that needs to take place between the citizens living in a first nations community and their chief and council. It gets the minister out of it, which deals with the member's issue of gathering of power in the minister's office.

How can he reconcile his statements with the reality that the bill reflects the desires and wishes of first nations constituents asking this of their chief and council?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, one of the fundamental ways in which communities access and get accountability is through dialogue and structures that are in place that are agreed upon by the community and not imposed upon them by the government. This is a huge issue. It is a historic problem and the government stepped right in that very same quagmire.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, earlier I asked about the possibility of tabling the Kelowna accord. I realize I did not get the support to do that. However, it is also important for us to note that there was an aboriginal round table in regard to the Kelowna accord in 2004-05. It has a lot of support information in it.

Could my colleague talk about how important it is to take a better approach at consulting prior to introducing legislation? With Bill C-27, the consulting seemed to have been done after the bill was introduced.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, Canadians understand that the government's record on consultation means that it phones up some of its friends, gets a consensus and then imposes legislation with time allocation, rushing it through saying that it has properly consulted Canadians. This is a sham.

On our side, we introduced over a dozen amendments to the legislation in committee. Not one amendment to the bill from the NDP caucus was accepted or considered by the government. That is not broad consultation with Canadians. That is the government imposing its understanding of what is appropriate for first nations. It is the same paternalistic approach that governments of Canada have done with first nations throughout our history. It is not the way to go and it is not the way an NDP government would go.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a great honour to rise in this House to speak to the issues that are of concern to the people of Timmins—James Bay. I am particularly interested in speaking to Bill C-27.

I represent communities across the vast region of northern Ontario, and many of my communities are ground zero for the dysfunction in the relationship between the federal government and first nations.

In Kashechewan First Nation, we had two mass evacuations within one year. Not only the nation was shocked, but the world was shocked by the horrific conditions in Attawapiskat last year. Children in Attawapiskat, in a fight to get a basic grade school, had to take their fight all the way to the United Nations. We are talking about a very broken relationship. We talk about accountability. Accountability is a fundamental of re-establishing that relationship.

From my work within first nations and as a member of Parliament, I think that if the government were serious about addressing the fundamental dysfunction, it would start to shine the light of accountability within the Department of Indian Affairs, first and foremost. I have seen a black hole of accountability in that department. It shocks me that government after government continues on with the same broken old colonial system.

Getting basic numbers from Indian Affairs is an issue. The Conservatives talk about bands posting numbers. We are talking about budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars that have no accountability mechanisms to the people who should be receiving that accountability: the communities.

For example, I was trying to find out why we had such a lack of construction for schools. I was a school board trustee for the Northeastern Catholic District School Board, a little rural school board with some 15 schools spread over 400 kilometres.

Rural school board trustees have the same principles as trustees in a city like Toronto or Vancouver. They have to follow the rules. The rules are written. Literally they are the law of the land, because when children walk into a school, they have a set of rights. They do not even know what those rights are, but those rights are guaranteed in law—for example, the guarantee of a class size ratio, how much funding per pupil, how much funding to be set aside for teachers' salaries. The actual size of the classroom is written into law. Those things are all written in the laws of each of the provinces, and the funding is within ring fencing. Ring fencing is a fundamental principle of accountability.

For example, it would be impossible for the community of London, Ontario, to call its school board and tell the trustees that they are not getting a school, that the community is taking it because it has to give higher salaries to some of its staff, or that they cannot have the school because the community will be fixing some roads this year. That would be illegal.

That happens in the world of Indian Affairs all the time. The basic principle of ring fencing does not exist at Indian Affairs, because it does not want it to exist. What does that mean? Between 1999 and 2007, $579 million was taken out of the capital facilities and maintenance program at Indian Affairs. This was $579 million that would have been spent on schools, on water treatment plants and on housing.

It was roughly $72 million a year that was pilfered from these communities. Where was it spent? An answer to an order paper question explained that it was spent on management, on legal services, litigation, public affairs and communication.

While our kids were going to school on the largest, contaminated, toxic brown field in North America and being exposed to levels of benzene that caused liver cancers, skin cancers and bone cancers, Indian Affairs was taking that money and blowing it on spin doctors and lawyers. That is its lack of accountability. Until that changes, nothing will begin to move forward in these communities.

The Conservatives talk about Canadians having a right to information while they are telling the Parliamentary Budget Officer to take them to court if he wants to know how they are spending money. It was the Parliamentary Budget Officer who had to shine a light on this government's absolute failure to protect the rights of children.

Let us go back to the issue of child rights. Every child in this country has a set of rights, unless they live on reserve. Then they get whatever Indian Affairs gives them.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer looked at the situation of education on reserves. What was found was appalling, that management of school assets was erratic, haphazard and without any coherent capital methodology whatsoever.

What does that mean? It means that in half of the provinces where the federal government has jurisdiction, the capital assets are not even monitored. It is not known if the schools are open, if they are full of mould or if they are shut.

It is not known that the Conservatives had taken over $122 million out of school construction and spent it elsewhere. They said that half of the existing schools were in good condition, but they could not really tell because they had not investigated any of them. There were 77 schools listed as temporary structures. What the heck is a “temporary structure”? Is that a tent?

Canada is a signatory to international treaties on the rights of the child. Young Shannen Koostachin from Attawapiskat challenged the government. She asked why it was that because her skin was brown and she lived in Attawapiskat First Nation she was denied the rights that a child in Timmins or Toronto takes for granted.

The right to an education is not just the right to a school, which the children in Attawapiskat were not being given. I can say from a school board perspective that the right to an education is a plan for education. We have to have that plan and methodology. However, as the Parliamentary Budget Officer showed, year after year the government completely failed. It was not just this government. There has been a long-standing failure to address basic issues.

My community of Marten Falls is now seven years into a boiled water advisory, in a first world nation. This is a community that happens to be sitting right beside the Ring of Fire. I see Dalton McGuinty in Ontario saying that the Ring of Fire will save Ontario. Governments just cannot wait to get their money on those resources. I hear that from the federal government. Meanwhile, the people who are sitting beside the Ring of Fire have had to boil their water for seven years, and the government has just announced that it will cut off bottled water to the community because it is too expensive. That is a lack of accountability.

There was a plan this past summer in Attawapiskat to build 30 permanent houses. That would have gone a long way to alleviating the crisis in housing that still exists within that community. There was an agreement signed with Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, which does not sign agreements unless the financial wherewithal is there to pull them off. It was going to be a rent-to-own plan. It would have been a really good news story. This is what taxpayers want to hear. The government could have said that it has a rent-to-own plan with the people who are building the houses. The Indian affairs minister scuttled that deal. He scuttled it to punish the community because it made him look bad.

Under this bill, the minister gets to decide whether or not the government will withhold funds to a band that he decides he does not like. Let us talk about what that was like in Attawapiskat last January when the minister cut off education dollars to children. He used children in one of my communities as hostages to try to force the band council to its knees over the third party manager.

The third party manager finally went to federal court, which came out with a decision that the government's decision was indefensible and that it had no basis for the accusations it made against the community. However, throughout that, for three months, last January to March, the government cut off the funding to the children. That would be illegal anywhere else. That could not be done in the provincial system. If it was fighting with a town—

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order. The parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, to say that the member is diverging from the topic we are debating is an understatement. I would ask him to refocus his comments on the actual bill and its contents as they were laid out by his own colleague in Motions Nos. 1, 2 and 3, which we heard the Speaker announce and ask us to speak to today.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

An hon. member

That is not a point of order.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

It is a point of order.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

As is the practice in this House, members are given significant latitude when debating a motion before this place. I would ask the hon. member, and all hon. members, to speak to the matter at hand and to address what is before the House.

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am not asking for much latitude at all. I am speaking right to this bill, to the fact that the minister now has the power to withhold funding.

I know that the Conservatives play the dog whistle vote to their base to all the time about those bad native people, and that they would be able to punish those native communities sounds like a great thing. They punished the children of Attawapiskat for three solid months by cutting off funding to education. That would be illegal under the provincial system. They could not do it. They did that and had to go to federal court and lost. Now they are having to change the law so that they can impose those kinds of punishments on communities, and they think they will get away with it. Children cannot be held as hostages in the way the government did in Attawapiskat from January to March of 2012.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay for his speech. It was very sensitive and very much in tune with his community in general and the aboriginal communities in his riding in particular.

For the government to claim that it is squeaky clean is totally ridiculous. If it showed as much zeal for strengthening the Canada Elections Act to give more powers to the Chief Electoral Officer, I would urge the government to exercise some restraint because I do not need to know the colour of every candidate's underwear during every election.

People need to realize that this bill goes way too far. It is very disturbing to see the fanatical zeal with which this government attacks specific groups in Canada. Take the example of the Canadian unions that are also the target of an initiative to disclose everything, including things that do not generally have to be disclosed in our society.

I would like the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay to say a few words about this disturbing zeal for attacking specific groups.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, the failure of the government is it believes there is a quick, easy way to force through its agenda. That is not how change happens.

In my speech I asked for accountability at the Department of Indian Affairs because that has stopped so much development. There are basic issues, where agreements are in place that can move forward; those sit on somebody's desk and at the eleventh hour they get cancelled. That would never happen at the provincial level. It happens at Indian Affairs all the time. If we dealt with that, we would start to move ahead.

I think the issue of accountability and financial accountability is paramount. I certainly think we should work with this. Now agreements are being signed with mining companies. I would like to see transparent agreements. I would like to see transparent resource revenue sharing as our communities are developing, so everybody knows that if one is moving into a territory, these are the ground rules.

This is what companies have been asking for. They are saying they know there are going to be rules; they want to be shown what the rules are so everyone can work together. However, this government is picking one group, the first nations communities, and treating them as the bad guys who have to be punished, as opposed to doing this in a coherent manner so we could actually move forward.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Jean Conservative Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB

Mr. Speaker, this member and other members bring forward arguments relating to why they think this is not good legislation. I am curious, because I come from northern Alberta. I have many relatives in first nations bands, treaty and status Indians. Even some past chiefs are related to me up in northern Alberta. I worked as a lawyer there, too. I saw first nations' plights first-hand. I saw how chiefs used moneys for their own benefit instead of for members. In particular, I even heard of cases where they would take band money, gamble with it and lose it, for their own gain or loss, as the case may be.

I heard some other arguments the hon. member has made. I have heard questions in the House from him before. Quite frankly, some of them seemed reasonable in the past. Even some of his comments now seem slightly reasonable in some respects.

Does the hon. member not see that this, in particular, is a first step for accountability in first nations, where chiefs and band leaders will be accountable to the members, and ultimately they will get better services? Band members will be treated with respect, while right now many of them have no respect. If they are not related or in some way connected to the chief, they have no rights. They have to leave the band under divorce cases or other things. Does he not see that this accountability, this step, would be the best thing for the people of Canada, the best thing for all members of all bands across the country? Does he not see that?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Mr. Speaker, I can say I am quite proud that nobody is going to accuse the chiefs who represent my communities of taking band funds and going off and gambling that money. That might be a good stereotype. Maybe it has happened. I know it has happened at municipal levels, but it does not mean that we accuse every municipality of being corrupt and needing extra levels. We are asking what is only fair.

I would like to see the government meet the basic standards of accountability and transparency. We see there is a black hole of accountability within its departments. Before government members accuse native leaders of only helping people who are their relatives, and taking money and spending it on gambling, I think they would be well served to say to Canadians they will actually meet a standard of accountability and then ask other Canadians to meet it with them, rather than just throwing those kinds of smears around.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to rise on behalf of my constituents in Surrey North to speak on Bill C-27, an act to enhance the financial accountability and transparency of first nations.

I will speak to accountability and transparency in a moment, but I would first point out that the bill is fundamentally flawed in failing to address the real issues that we should be talking about in this House, the real issues affecting our first nation communities, including in northern British Columbia, Alberta and across the Prairies to Ontario and the rest of the country. Those real issues are housing, jobs, education and running water for our first nation young people.

It is a fundamental flaw in the bill that we are not discussing these issues that have affected our first nations for many years. We should be discussing these issues in the House to improve the lives of our first nation people. Yet, the Conservative government has failed to address any of these issues that need to be addressed.

Before starting out with a bill, it would make sense to consult the very people it would affect. We have heard in this House and at committee that the government has failed to address the concerns of first nations by listening to them, the very people the bill would affect.

It is not just about listening, but also about making changes to the bill to improve accountability and transparency. As we heard in committee, New Democrats produced a number of amendments that would have improved the bill, yet the Conservatives did not want to listen to them or make the changes.

From the Conservatives we have seen no accountability and transparency. There was no accountability by the Minister of Agriculture when it came to the XL Foods debacle. We saw no transparency or accountability from the Minister of National Defence or the Associate Minister of National Defence when it came to the F-35s. My colleague from northern Ontario talked about the lack of accountability in Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada in his speech, referring to a “black hole of accountability” there.

I think that accountability and transparency has to start with the government being accountable to the taxpayers of this country. However, the current Conservative government has failed to be accountable and transparent.

Despite hearing about transparency and accountability from the other side of the House, we have Bill C-38 and now Bill C-45, the omnibus budget bills. The Conservatives failed to properly consult on these bills and to put them into the right committees to look at the issues affecting Canadians. I am taken aback when Conservatives talk about accountability and transparency, because the current government has not shown any of that when it comes to a number of issues that have been raised in the House.

There are a number of so-called transparency and accountability issues the government brings up in the bill. I want to highlight them and look at whether there really is transparency and accountability and if things are in place already addressing some of those concerns.

The bill would require every first nation, except those with self-government regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement; a separate annual schedule of remuneration covering the salaries, commissions, bonuses, fees, et cetera, paid by the first nation and any entity controlled by the first nation through its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities; an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statement; and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration.

For each of these four documents, the bill requires each first nation to provide it within four months upon request of any of its members, and to publish the document on its website and retain it there for over 10 years. Here is the kicker: the minister must also publish the document on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of the first nation to comply with these requirements of the bill enables the minister to withhold any funds to first nations, and the minister can also terminate any funding agreement with first nations.

We heard from the previous speaker about the minister arbitrarily having these powers and the ability to withhold money for the very issues that we need to address. We saw him last winter withholding money for three months from first nation schools in northern Ontario communities.

There is a whole bunch of requirements now being put on first nations to report this stuff. I think these onerous requirements are already in place, because we can get that information already. However, I do know that the Conservatives have to play to their ideological base and interest groups to make it look like they are actually addressing the issues of first nations.

Again, if they were really concerned about addressing the real issues in our first nation communities, we would be discussing housing for first nations. We would be discussing education for every child and adult in first nations. We would be addressing water issues in first nation communities.

I have listed a number of requirements of the bill that will put an onerous burden on first nations. I also want to let the House and the people who are listening know that there are certain mechanisms in place that already incorporate some of these things. The current policy based requirements include the fact that the majority of the funding arrangements between Canada and first nations are in the form of fixed term contribution agreements under which first nations must satisfy certain conditions to ensure continued federal contribution payments. The requirements for financial reporting are also set out in AANDC's year-end financial reporting handbook. Under the year-end financial reporting handbook, first nations must submit to AANDC annual audited consolidated financial statements for which public funds are provided to them. These include the salary, honoraria, and travel expenses of all elected, appointed and senior unelected band officials. The latter basically include unelected positions, such as those of executive director and band manager.

Therefore, we already have in place arrangements where first nations provide this information when they sign agreements with the government for the funds available to them.

New Democrats are opposed to this legislation, as it will be imposed on first nations. We need to work in collaboration with first nations to come up with a framework to address the real issues that are of concern to them and Canadians. This has been going on for many years. We need to take a look at these issues. We should be discussing first nations' housing, education and running water. These are the real issues affecting our first nations, yet the government has consistently failed to address them.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1 p.m.

Kenora Ontario

Conservative

Greg Rickford ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the member has moved the debate along a little bit. He should stay tuned in the next couple of days and weeks for legislation that I think he will support, because it will deal with the structural challenges around water and waste-water treatment, capacity reporting, monitoring and maintenance and, of course, replacing the infrastructure itself. We look forward to his support.

However, what he said is that these communities are already doing this. The problem is that they are doing it as an obligation to the department. We are saying that they should do it as an obligation to their constituents. I hear governance somewhere in there. I hear strengthening the ability between a constituent and its government, in the same way that the member's wages are posted and the same way mine are. In fact mine have to be posted even beyond any remuneration or expenses. The mayors of cities within the member's riding are posting their own as well. The premier has put most of his up in the recent past.

When a first nation's government receives a critical mass of its funds from another government, otherwise known as the taxpayer, why should it not simply turn to its community members and put that out to them? What fundamental problem would the member have with that concept?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I am very happy that the government is bringing forward the real issues that we should be talking about in the House.

The Conservatives have been in government for six years. Prior to that my colleagues over there in the corner were in government for many years. The very issues that are facing first nations today have been problems for many years. The government has failed to address those conditions.

I am very happy that the government is bringing forward something that will address the real issues affecting our first nations communities.

In regard to the member's question, with any bill that is brought forward, I think the fundamental thing that needs to be done is to consult with the very people who will be affected. The government has failed to do that.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague for his speech.

With regard to Bill C-27 currently before us, as the member said, we absolutely must not impose more restrictive standards on the first nations. The thing that strikes us is the notable lack of collaboration with the first nations when it comes to this bill. What is more, as the member said, this bill does nothing to address the real problem, namely that living conditions for first nations are getting worse.

My question has to do with the findings that the Auditor General released in June 2011. In her findings, she called for major structural reforms in order to improve the federal government's policies and practices.

What does my colleague think? Can he comment on this?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Mr. Speaker, again it pains me because I think we should be discussing issues that are very important to the first nation community. Those issues include education, water, and jobs for our young people.

This bill actually does not address any of that. A bill should begin with collaboration with the first nations to look at what their needs are and how we can address some of the issues in part of those communities.

My hon. colleagues talked about the former Auditor General and a number of recommendations in her report last year. We fully support those recommendations that would help advance our first nations and bring transparency and accountability to our first nations.

This bill is basically a smokescreen. It does not address accountability or transparency but does address the ideological base the government is catering to.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is almost trite to say but profoundly important to remember that governing is about priorities and choices. A majority government is in a unique position in this regard. A majority government can control the parliamentary agenda and research whatever issue it wishes. A majority government has access to full information and the resources of our civil service and departments. A majority government can put whatever legislation it wishes before the House.

For all Canadians watching today who care about what is going on in Parliament, the government has put Bill C-27 before us. This is what the bill would do. It would require all first nations, except those with self-governing regimes, to produce an audited annual consolidated financial statement and a separate annual schedule of remuneration that details the remuneration, salaries, wages, commissions, bonuses, fees, honoraria, dividends and expenses, including transportation, accommodation, meals, hospitality and incidentals, paid by first nations, and any entity controlled by a first nation, to its chief and each of the councillors in their professional and personal capacities. It requires an auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statements and an auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration. For each of these four documents, the bill would require each first nation to provide the document upon request to any of its members within 120 days, for the band to publish this information and documents on its website and to retain it on its website for 10 years.

Furthermore, the minister must publish the documents on the website of the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. Failure of a first nation to comply with these requirements would enable any first nation member to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; any person, including the minister, to apply for a court order to the Superior Court; and the minister to develop a so-called appropriate action plan to remedy the breach. The minister may withhold any funds to the first nation or terminate any funding agreement with that first nation.

As all Canadians can easily see, the bill deals with first nations. I ask everyone to consider all of the issues facing first nations people on reserve and in urban areas today. There are poverty rates facing first nations that are dramatically above non-aboriginals. There are incarceration rates, both men and in particular women, far exceeding the percentage of population that first nations comprise in our country. There are reserves across this country without safe drinking water. There are reserves across this country without proper housing, where multiple generations of families, sometimes 10 to 20 people, are crammed together, living in houses built for five. There are reserves without proper schools in this country. There are substandard and fewer education dollars and outcomes for aboriginals than there are for non-aboriginals.

Across this country on first nations reserves and in urban areas, there are epidemics of suicide, drug abuse and domestic violence. There are aboriginal people in Canada today who are living in third world conditions. This past summer, Canadians saw the Red Cross sending emergency aid to Canadians living on a reserve in Canada. The conditions on the ground are deplorable.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The opposition tabled three motions that dealt with the substantive elements of Bill C-27. The member has not just deviated but has gone completely off the map in terms of what the House intended or contemplated speaking to today. I would ask you, Mr. Speaker, to make a determination in this regard.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

That is not a point of order.