House of Commons Hansard #181 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was nation.

Topics

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

It is a point of order.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please. As I said earlier, it is the practice in this place that all hon. members are given significant latitude in terms of addressing the matter before the House. Having said that, I will once again take the opportunity to remind all hon. members that there is an agenda and would ask them to address it with their remarks.

The hon. member for Vancouver Kingsway.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Kenora has been wrong twice now. Only he and government members would stand up and say that talking about the conditions of first nations people in this country has nothing to do with a bill that deals with remuneration and disclosure to first nations people. That is something else.

The legal reality facing first nations in this country is this. We are dealing with an outmoded Indian Act, a paternalistic, ineffective vestige of colonialism. Despite billions of dollars spent by the Department of Indian Affairs, we have poor outcomes. Bands are being forced to go to court repeatedly to enforce basic rights over and over again. The government has an appalling record of violating treaties and failing to negotiate treaties with dozens of bands in Canada that have never ceded their rights, as they have in British Columbia, or signed a binding treaty nation to nation with Canada. Given all of these serious critical facts, what do the Conservatives decide is their priority to deal with when we talk about first nations? They want to go after what chiefs and councillors make.

We have done a bit of research. The average salary for chiefs of bands in this country is $60,000. The average salary for band councillors in this country is $31,000. Fifty per cent of chiefs of bands in this country earn less than $60,000 a year and only five per cent of chiefs in this country earn more than $100,000.

Fifty per cent of first nations in this country have no Internet access, period. However, the Conservatives think the priority is to require bands to post financial information of what their chiefs and councillors make on their websites instead of being concerned with the thousands of first nations that have no access to the Internet. Really?

It is absolutely appalling to hear the Conservatives talk about the accountability of first nations. They sign trade deals negotiated behind closed doors and in secret, and then talk about wanting accountability for first nation bands. The Minister of Immigration spent $750,000 of taxpayer dollars to conduct media monitoring of his own image, but the Conservatives want to crack down on first nation chiefs to make sure that taxpayer dollars are not wasted. The Conservative government brings in omnibus legislation that deprives parliamentarians of our ability to properly scrutinize laws, most of which have zero to do with the budget, but the government wants to talk about accountability. That is absolutely a joke.

New Democrats are opposed to the legislation because it was imposed on first nations without consultation and it runs counter to the Conservative pronouncements at the time of the Crown-first nations gathering that they would strive to work together with first nations. The inclusion of reporting of own-source revenues under the provision of federal legislation is unprecedented. Practically speaking, the requirement to publish detailed consolidated financial statements of first nation-controlled businesses may undermine their competitive abilities and financial success.

Now while the stated aims of Bill C-27 are to increase transparency to first nation citizens, the requirement for public posting on a first nation website along with posting on the AANDC website, and the allowance for any person, not just a member of a first nation, to apply to court for the disclosure of a financial statement and salary report, is an absolute violation of privacy. The Conservative government took away the long-form census because it thought that it was a violation of privacy to ask Canadians to anonymously disclose how many bedrooms they have in their house. However,the Conservatives do not care about forcing first nation bands to publish information about their expenses on a website without any concern for their privacy whatsoever.

The NDP does not support this legislation. The bill would not do anything to increase the accountability of first nation governments to their people. It would apply standards that are greater than those for elected officials in many other jurisdictions.

New Democrats want the government to work collaboratively with first nations to improve governance. Instead the Conservatives are cutting funding to institutions supporting governance, including the First Nations Statistical Institute and the National Centre for First Nations Governance. Changes to how audited statements are presented to first nations do not need legislation. It could be a requirement of funding arrangements with the department as each first nation government signs.

I want to conclude with something that the Assembly of First Nations said:

We all know what the problems are–they are not exorbitant salaries–they are decades of paternalism that have placed many First Nation leaders in a position where they are responsible for implementing decisions, but where the ultimate power to make decisions rests with the federal government (i.e., under the Indian Act). Not only does this continue to be patently inappropriate, it remains a recipe for poor outcomes.

Instead of the Conservatives playing politics and doing the bidding of their buddies at the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, instead of making scapegoats of some of the poorest and most vulnerable people in society, why will the government not bring forth legislation to address the very real problems facing first nations in this country, and bring them up to the standards that every Canadian should expect?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:15 p.m.

Kenora Ontario

Conservative

Greg Rickford ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development

Mr. Speaker, this debate is moving in the direction that we would want it to, and I appreciate the members across the way for doing that. We just heard the previous speaker talk about how happy he is to hear our priorities coming to the House and how supportive he would be of those. He said that the orientation to the department should focus rather on the people, so we are moving along.

At the outset of his speech, the member said that “governing is about priorities and choices” and that it can put whatever it chooses before us, which would be a budget and consolidated audited financial statements on past expenditures. Further we have a process of scrutiny from the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

In this case when we are talking about governance, I know the member wants to focus on one particular witness, but we heard from several first nations people, as private members' business and now as it is government legislation. These constituents from whom we heard had experienced intimidation and found it very problematic and almost impossible to get access to information on what the chief and council was spending. Why is that important? Because it helps them to govern. It helps them to make choices as a community.

I ask that the member reconcile that principle with what he said in his speech. It does not make any sense.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, here is what I think the majority of Canadians would rather us be debating in the House today when we are talking about first nations. Instead of worrying about that infinitesimal number of chiefs who are making over $100,000 year, they would rather we were sitting here discussing ways we can get more food into the hands of first nations children. Canadians would rather we be sitting here debating money allocated to determine how we are going to build housing across this country on every single reserve, so every single first nation, missing not one, can live in dignified surroundings. They would rather parliamentarians be in the House talking about how we can ensure we have safe drinking water for every single Canadian, when in 2012 we still face the appalling reality that many first nations do not have that. Those are the kinds of choices that I think Canadians would rather parliamentarians be making and discussing today, not this stereotyping, scapegoating, paternalistic non-issue that the government is pursuing.

If the Conservatives want to talk about accountability, they can start by practising some themselves.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to ask my colleague a question.

The government is asking the first nations to provide information to their own members. It should be noted that sometimes it is difficult for some members to get certain information. However, is the solution really to make that information public and available to everyone? When information is posted on a website, everyone in the world has access to it.

Is a website that everyone has access to really the solution for ensuring that every member has access to this information? Businesses on the reserves could take advantage of that information.

Is this really the solution?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, of course it is not desirable. We have to consider the privacy and policy implications of every decision we make in the House. As a solid opposition that is what we are doing. We are bringing to the Conservatives' attention that by compelling first nations to publish detailed financial expenses, personal incomes and expenditures of band members on websites, and permitting any single person across this country to take the band to court, is a recipe for a violation not only of privacy laws or of perhaps commercial projects, but also perhaps even the charter itself.

In Nova Scotia, summaries of expenses of ministers are located at the legislative library for public viewing. The Government of the Northwest Territories only publishes travel expenses of ministers and does not require salary disclosure of elected officials or senior public servants, and neither Yukon nor Prince Edward Island disclose salaries of elected officials. That involves many more public servants than are at issue here.

Maybe we could start with ensuring that governments across this country are disclosing adequately to their citizens. However, at this point, with the amount of profound and dramatic problems facing first nations, I am grossly disappointed that, while there are serious problems to be dealt with, the Conservatives have chosen an issue that really will not make life better for any first nations.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House to speak about Bill C-27.

This bill is of particular interest to me, not because there are a lot of aboriginal communities in my riding, but because I put myself in the shoes of everyday Canadians who are concerned about the problems faced by the first nations, as described by my colleague, and consider the bill from that perspective.

Once again, the government foisted legislation on us without any consultative process. There is nothing new about what we are seeing today: it is common practice for the Conservative government to fail to consult those affected by its bills.

This bill is testament to the government's inability to engage in a consultative process before imposing measures. The bill will most certainly have an impact on those concerned— people who could have brought something positive to the debate. These people are better informed than we are as legislators. A consultative process enables us to put ourselves in the shoes of the people who are directly affected, who work and are active in the field on a daily basis. That is why consultations are important. The government has never bothered to hold consultations before drafting legislation.

As I said earlier, this government is often driven by a populist approach. It responds to certain specific events. In this particular case, newspapers reported that a few first nations chiefs had extremely high salaries. As usual, the Conservatives are reacting to very specific issues and introducing legislation accordingly. In my opinion, that way of legislating is not good for our country and does not help us to move forward. The government is simply reacting to small-scale events that have no broad application in Canada.

In our opinion, it is unprecedented that a federal statute would prescribe the disclosure of an independent source of income. I think this will hurt the first nations. The government claims that the bill is designed to help them and that its intentions are good, but the bill could have the opposite effect.

If that much information is disclosed, a number of businesses and companies working on reserve will have to make public more information than their counterparts. These companies will have to disclose this information to the public at large. This means posting information on a website for the whole world to see. Anybody who has access to the Internet, in Canada or elsewhere, will have access to the information. It will obviously give companies that have access to privileged information regarding other companies an unfair advantage. Businesses that are forced to publish more information will lose their competitive edge.

We believe that this will actually achieve the opposite of what the Conservatives want. This will not help the communities in any way, because those businesses will not want to remain associated with first nations, since that would put them at a disadvantage in Canadian markets. We think the opposite will occur: businesses will steer clear of first nations and the money will disappear. This means even fewer resources for first nations, which is definitely not a good thing.

Judith Sayers, who holds the national aboriginal economic development chair at the University of Victoria, gives an interesting explanation:

The fallout of this is that in an effort to remove a First Nation business from the need to publish its financial statements publicly, the business is too far removed from the First Nation and has no connection or accountability to the members of the First Nation. This whole provision needs to be seriously rethought with a business perspective as well as one of equality of other companies and businesses out there that do not need to publish their financial statements for the world to see.

We are talking about entrepreneurship, which sometimes gets the Conservatives' attention. Fairness for all companies in Canada is diminishing. Some companies will be subject to certain requirements, while others will not. It is simply unfair to those businesses.

The other point I wanted to address is the fact that accountability should exist among local governments, first nations and the population. We do not understand why this information should be made public. The goal of the bill was to make this information available to the members of aboriginal communities, not to the entire world.

This measure will disadvantage these first nations. How can the goal of this bill be achieved when countless aboriginal communities simply do not have access to the Internet? The government is missing the point here. It says the information will be posted on a website, but there are people who do not even have access to the Internet. I do not have the exact figures, but a large proportion of aboriginal communities, which are often in remote areas, do not even have access to the Internet. The government is not solving a problem. It is creating a false problem and appears to be trying to solve it in order to satisfy special interests.

I would add that accountability between the first nations and their members is already covered by section 69 of the Indian Act. Measures are already in place whereby the first nations must produce reports for the department and share the information with their members. This is already included in provisions, in laws. This bill does nothing but satisfy some lobby group, probably. The Canadian Taxpayers Federation often comes up. As I was saying earlier, because of one specific incident, the government seems to be trying to change the legislation in order to satisfy a particular group that took exception to some figures a few years ago.

In my view, this bill goes against two rulings by the Federal Court. As I was saying, it has already been said that there needs to be accountability. Two rulings mention it, including the ruling in Montana Band of Indians v. Canada (Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs), where the court found that first nations' financial statements were confidential information within the meaning of paragraph 20(1)(b) of the Access to Information Act and, accordingly, were not required to be disclosed. This bill contradicts federal legislation, namely the Access to Information Act.

We have a number of questions about access to information legislation. Will this be protected? The Privacy Act might be affected as well.

There was also Sawridge Band v. Canada (Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs). The court ruled that these financial statements are not confidential vis-à-vis the members of a first nations band, since the members of a band can have access to the financial statements of their own band under the Indian Bands Revenue Moneys Regulations.

This Federal Court ruling explained that these documents were already accessible to band members. In theory, Bill C-27 is not needed to gain access to this information. Laws and court rulings have already granted this access.

The government of a first nation must be accountable to its members. This bill is merely a reaction to newspaper articles. As I said earlier, the Conservatives like to react to specific incidents in this manner.

Members spoke about the salaries of first nations leaders, lumping them all together. However, as mentioned earlier, the reality is that the average salary of chiefs is $60,000 and the average salary of councillors is $31,000. It is important to note that 50% of chiefs earn less than $60,000 and that only 5% of them earn more than $100,000. I mentioned that the government was reacting to specific incidents that do not reflect the general reality in Canada. Only 5% of chiefs earn over $100,000. Here in the House, we all know our salary: we earn over $150,000. Should these chiefs, who are responsible for their bands, be making less than $60,000 or $30,000? This raises some questions.

Of course, the NDP supports transparency and accountability at all levels of government. We oppose useless measures that will serve only to increase red tape for first nations. I spoke about red tape a little earlier when I asked my colleague a question. The government says that all red tape must be eliminated because it costs too much and it is not good. However, there are two bills before the House that will increase red tape for unions and first nations: private member's Bill C-377 and Bill C-27, respectively. A government that prides itself on eliminating red tape in this country is thus doing the exact opposite, and creating red tape for specific target groups in Canada.

Unfortunately, the government did not work with us in committee at all. I said earlier that the government never consulted the first nations. When it comes to consulting the opposition, the government is even worse. The government always refuses to work with us.

We proposed 18 amendments that the Conservatives never considered. As a result, we are going to vote against this bill. I welcome any questions.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Peterborough Ontario

Conservative

Dean Del Mastro ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it never ceases to amaze me that when we bring a bill forward, such as this one, which seeks to provide transparency and open government for first nations, something that I think all members in the House would consider laudable, the opposition members simply cannot see their way clear to doing what is right. In this case, they say that they support transparency, accountability and first nations members being able to understand the financial dealings of their band council but that they just cannot support it in the bill. That is a cop-out. They simply cannot say that they support transparency and accountability but then vote against them every time they come up in the House.

Why do members of the NDP believe that transparency and accountability are not owed to each and every first nations band member?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thought I was quite clear in my speech. I will repeat a little of what I said. This information is already available for first nations; it is already sent to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada. I was able to provide the figures regarding average salaries because that information is already available and first nations can therefore consult it.

I agree that we need to find a solution to make those documents available to some members of first nations who do not have access to them for various reasons. However, I do not think that the solution is to put those documents on a website that anyone and everyone can consult. This will have the opposite effect and will harm first nations by putting many businesses on reserves at a disadvantage compared to others. This will definitely be harmful to them. The Conservatives are certainly in no position to give lessons on government transparency.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, in his comments, the government member asked how we in the opposition could vote against accountability. The first thing that came across my mind was what I had talked about earlier when I was addressing the bill, and that was the accountability portion within the Kelowna accord. That accountability had, for example, first nations support for the establishment of a first nations auditor general. However, the present government tore up that agreement and did not respect that. Does that mean that the government does not support accountability?

The issue before us on this particular bill, at least in most part, is the fact that the government did not do its homework by consulting with first nations and leaders within our first nations communities before the drafting of the bill so that it would have that level of expertise and a better understanding of what it should be tabling here in the House.

Would the member not agree that the single biggest flaw in the legislation is the fact that the government did not do its homework in terms of its obligation to consult with first nations?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I agree, and as I said earlier, this is not the first time a Conservative government has brought in legislation without doing any consultation. This cannot produce anything of substance. A good government does its homework and consults the public before introducing a bill.

In this case, it is as if the government is introducing the bill and then sitting back and watching the reactions. That is the opposite of how it should proceed. A government should consult first and draft a bill based on what it learned. If it had done any consultation, it would have learned that this could put some companies at a disadvantage. It would have known about everything I said in my speech. Perhaps it would not have introduced this bill in its current form and maybe it would have had a little more support from the opposition, if it had done its homework.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, first allow me to congratulate the hon. member for Nanaimo—Cowichan for her work on first nations issues.

Bill C-27 concerns an issue that is not very familiar to many members of this House. I must admit that there is no reserve in my riding. In matters relating to first nations, I rely on my colleagues who have experience with this issue and on my own experience gained through discussions.

Just by chance, last Friday I was on the wonderful Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg reserve in the beautiful Gatineau valley in the Pontiac, home to an Algonquin First Nation. The hon. member for Pontiac is doing excellent work there as well. As our justice critic, I discussed various justice-related issues with a number of people from that reserve.

I was able to meet some really extraordinary people, including Chief Gilbert Whiteduck who acted as both our tour guide and our spiritual guide, so that we could get a better understanding, even in that short time, of a number of things that are happening on that reserve. We also met councillors Caitlin Tolley and Bill Ottawa. I applaud Caitlin Tolley, a young woman of 22, who has become involved in governance on the reserve. I was very pleased to meet her and councillor Bill Ottawa.

We were also able to visit Waseya House and meet the front-line workers there, Lynn Buckshot and Sue Thran.

Meeting the chief of police was also very interesting. The police force is located on the reserve and controlled by band members. The chief, Gordon McGregor, and the officers are doing extraordinary work under rather difficult circumstances. We also met the director of health and social services, Robin Decontie.

Another extremely important meeting was with Bridget Tolley and Laurie Odjick, who are heavily involved in the issue of missing and murdered aboriginal women. They work tirelessly. One of them lost her mother in an accident that the police have still not finished investigating, perhaps because lions that escape reserves get more attention than any people there, especially first nations women. Laurie Odjick’s daughter disappeared six or seven years ago. These women will never give up until all the necessary investigations are complete. Where there is life, there is hope.

I am telling you about all this because all these meetings were held in complete transparency. These people are not afraid to show who they are. However, as a proud nation, they would certainly like to be consulted when we make decisions from on high, here in these hallowed halls but far from their lands. Here we appear to say that the first nations are as important as the anglophones and francophones across this country, but when it comes time to give them full self-determination, we constantly put obstacles in their way.

Everything I have heard in the speeches since this morning has made me shudder—it is as if I am watching the Twilight Zone, a program people from my generation might be familiar with.

The government members—in their speeches and questions—have spent the whole morning talking about transparency and accountability. This is ridiculous and surely cannot be coming out of the mouths of the members opposite—because day after day we struggle to get the Conservatives to be even the slightest bit transparent and accountable. It is as if these words are not even part of their vocabulary, except when they chose to foist them on others. It is always easier to point the finger at others.

It is not a negligible problem, nor a cop-out, as some members opposite have claimed—it is a major problem.

Everybody is in favour of the principle of transparency. Everybody is in favour of the principle of accountability. However, there is one thing that we are not in favour of—and it is not just a matter of style or appearance, it is about substance. If the first nation's right to self-determination is to be recognized, it must be respected and abided by. This also means consulting those who are affected.

Engaging and consulting are quite different concepts in the eyes of the law. We must not be taken for fools, as is this government's wont.

What frustrates me the most is that introducing this kind of bill on the financial transparency of the first nations suggests that the first nations are not being transparent. This perpetuates negative stereotypes that are bandied about on our radio stations, or among people who, like me—at least before this Friday—have never visited a reserve, have no idea what they are talking about and cannot stop mouthing off. They think that all the chiefs are lining their pockets, that people are getting the wool pulled over their eyes, that billions of dollars are being handed over, and that we have no idea what is being done with the money. They are perpetuating this kind of prejudice, these kinds of bogus and extremely negative rumours that remain etched in people's psyches.

Indeed, I would wager anyone in this House that if I ventured out into the street, I would easily stumble upon nine people out of ten who would respond negatively if asked whether they thought that the first nations on reserve are transparent. Ninety percent of those I asked would probably say that no, there is no transparency whatsoever. Why is that? It is because we are allowing this kind of stereotype to be perpetuated. It is extremely condescending.

When a government claims that a people form a nation, and in the same breath imposes its own methods, that certainly does not show a willingness to deal nation to nation with people to whom we owe a lot. In fact, as Chief Whiteduck told me, even Parliament is on their territory. People may not agree on ancestral lands, on what belongs to whom, but that said, up until now, discussions among the parties has always been Canada's method of choice.

One particular aspect of this issue is especially frightening. During our meeting last Friday, when we met to talk about human trafficking—kidnapping and prostitution—and about criminal justice on reserves, no one spoke about the lack of transparency of their band council. What they spoke about were the pressing needs, those that the Auditor General herself found a few years ago and made recommendations about. There are huge needs. Poverty rates are through the roof. There are economic problems.

On the one hand, we want transparency, yet on the other hand, we are leaving them in the poorest regions, in absolutely terrible conditions. Sometimes, these are conditions we would not even subject an animal to.

I look at the problems that the police chief raised during our visit, such as the drug problem. It worries me that the Minister of Health is authorizing certain prescription medications that will cause problems on our streets and even more problems on our reserves. However, there are other problems, such as the disappearance of aboriginal women.

I will conclude by reading something that was given to me by Ms. Tolley and Ms. Odjick.

I am writing today to express my concern over the lack of government response to the plight of missing aboriginal women in Canada. The statistics are shocking, 580 women have been lost since 1970, more than half of that number since 2000.

It goes on to say that while the Government of Canada announced $10 million worth of funds to address this issue in the March 2010 budget, families and communities are still waiting for justice. It goes on to say that it is time for the Government of Canada to respond to the needs of families of missing and murdered aboriginal women by ensuring access to healing and justice services, and that it is time for a national plan of action to end violence against aboriginal women.

I would add that it is time for the government to be transparent with first nations.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague on her speech.

People have mentioned the Conservatives' double-talk on transparency. On the one hand, they claim to want greater transparency in local and first nation governments and, on the other hand, they do the exact opposite when it comes to their own policies.

Are they applying the “Do as we say, not as we do” rule? What does my colleague have to say about transparency? Is the government in a position to lecture us?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, the government certainly has nothing to teach us. Consider the budget and the volume of information released.

Indeed, lack of transparency, information and consultation also includes releasing a huge volume of documents, then giving people about two hours to read them. That is not exactly transparency. That is not a genuine exchange of views or a consultation process, and it does not reflect any interest in other people's opinions.

We constantly see this pattern with international treaties, for example, because we do not know which criteria are used. Everything is always done and decided behind closed doors, particularly the Prime Minister's doors. His ministers are even told what to say in front of the cameras, even though they know they are about to spread falsehoods.

There is something unhealthy here. Therefore, to have the nerve to introduce a bill known as the “First Nations Financial Transparency Act” is simply ridiculous.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Craig Scott NDP Toronto—Danforth, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. member for Gatineau if she recalls the recent Crown-first nations gathering and what looked to be some goodwill coming out of that meeting about Crown-first nations relationships and mutual respect as a basis for moving forward.

How does the member think the bill might relate to what we heard the government say at the end of that event?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

That is an excellent question, Mr. Speaker. Usually I am an optimist, but after that conference, I was not that optimistic because there were too many generalities.

I think the first nations hoped, in good faith, that the government would stick with what it seemed to look like it would do, but the way government members have acted on this legislation toward first nations just proves my point.

There is not an ounce of serious will to definitely respect, and respect is more a question of delivering the real goods than being here and apologizing. The Conservatives can apologize all they want, but if they do not mean that apology and go outside of these doors and do the opposite of what they have apologized for, there is a problem of credibility.

I humbly submit that fundamentally it is the problem of credibility with the government. Government members speak, say words, utter sentences, but nobody believes them.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to ask a second question which still has to do with double-talk. It is interesting to see the government's way of doing things. This time, I am referring to double-talk regarding red tape.

On the one hand, departments are saying we must eliminate red tape. Ministers tell us they are trying to cut red tape. But then the government turns around and imposes even more red tape on first nations.

Could the hon. member comment on this aspect of the Conservatives' double-talk?

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be brief because I know I am running out of time. Indeed, this is more double-talk. As far as red tape is concerned, it is a joke.

When I read the bill, when I looked at the notes and listened to the speeches, I thought to myself, there is no way that billions of dollars are being sent to help the first nations serve their members and people who stay on reserve, without any accountability. Agreements and audits are already in place.

All the government is doing is adding layers in order to create obstacles. The truth is that the government does not want more transparency. It wants to humiliate the first nations by introducing this type of bill without consultation, without giving them a chance to say a word about it.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

There are five minutes left before statements by members.

The hon. member for Terrebonne—Blainville.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-27, which requires every first nations community to provide the following: annual consolidated financial statements; a separate schedule of annual remuneration paid by the first nation, and by any entity controlled by the first nation, to its chief and each of its councillors in their professional and personal capacities; the auditor's written report respecting the consolidated financial statements; and the auditor's report respecting the schedule of remuneration.

The Conservatives are trying to teach the first nations a lesson about transparency. He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches. That saying is quite appropriate in my opinion because the government is very closed and not transparent and does not even want to provide crucial information to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who needs it in order to be transparent with Canadians and tell them what the federal government is spending taxpayers' money on. The Conservatives are not even doing this much and they are asking first nations to do more. The first nations already have to submit more than 200 reports to the federal government, which is huge.

One of the most troubling aspects of this bill is that it directly affects the first nations. As an MP, when working on a bill that affects a certain group, I will consult that group. However, this is something that the government does not seem to understand. What does it mean to consult someone? It is not just listening to witnesses in committee, who do not speak for very long. It means going to see the groups, the first nations, before drafting a bill. In that way, they can say what they would like to see in the bill, what measures do not work and what will disadvantage first nations communities.

Consequently, we are very disappointed because first nations should be consulted and especially because consultations are mandatory under a UN declaration ratified by Canada. It is important that we honour our commitments. It is not just a matter of will; it is about meeting our legal obligations.

Another paradox is that the government wants to reduce the paper burden. Huge cuts were made because the government wants to eliminate red tape and increase efficiency. However, all those measures that the government wants to implement will require huge resources and result in a waste of time and money.

Right now, in our own country, people are living in crises and in appalling conditions. I am thinking of communities such as Attawapiskat, which the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay is defending so well in the House. These communities do not have schools, and they do not have safe housing. It is cold in northern Ontario and people are freezing in houses that are totally inadequate.

The government should tackle these issues instead. It should ensure that every young person—and I emphasize the term “every” because we are aware of the current situation—living in a first nation community can attend school. Going to school is a basic and essential need. Why are we not debating this issue? It is because this government's first bill on first nations seeks to impose transparency measures on them, without consulting them, without consulting those who will be most affected. The government is not dealing with critical issues such as drinking water and food. Incidentally, food is not available at an affordable price in northern rural communities. People must pay exorbitant prices for fresh food.

The government says it wants to eliminate red tape to increase efficiency. However, when other governments already have to file 200 reports and will have to produce more, the Conservatives do not even take into consideration the fact that this may impair these governments' ability to provide direct services to citizens who really need them.

My time is up. I will continue later.

Motions in AmendmentFirst Nations Financial Transparency ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

The time provided for debate has expired. The hon. member for Terrebonne—Blainville has five minutes left.

We will now proceed to Statements by Members. The hon. member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

Queen's Diamond Jubilee MedalStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted to celebrate the contributions of four individuals from Etobicoke—Lakeshore in making our community, our country and the world a better place.

First, I wish to recognize Leah Houston. Leah is the artistic director of MABELLEarts in Etobicoke. She has been cultivating a community-based arts practice for over eight years, incorporating visual arts, theatre and performance. She brings together people of all ages and backgrounds to creatively transform the Mabelle community.

Second, I wish to recognize Toronto police inspector Tim Crone. In 2011, Tim signed up to serve with the RCMP mission to train and mentor Afghan National Police officers. He left family and home for one year to help build a secure future for the people of Afghanistan. We salute his courage and dedication.

Last, I wish to recognize Liz and Carl Porritt. Liz and Carl are the owner-operators of Porritt Real Estate in Long Branch. Their volunteer activities include serving on the board of the Long Branch Business Improvement Area and organizing the Etobicoke Lakeshore Christmas Parade, recognized as one of the best parades in Ontario.

For their contributions, these individuals have been awarded the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.

EmploymentStatements By Members

2 p.m.

NDP

Jonathan Tremblay NDP Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Mr. Speaker, with Bill C-38, new employment insurance measures were implemented and we had to deal with the definition of "real job search".

The Conservative government lacked transparency by failing to inform the public of the real effect that these new rules would have. It is disrespectful to inform people of new requirements as they receive their cheques—that is, when they get one. This government takes people for dishonest slackers when it asks them for actual proof of interviews with potential employers. The Conservatives discredit workers, treat them like children and humiliate them. They must prove they are looking for work, not to mention that someone from Forestville must now report for an interview in Baie-Comeau, an hour's drive away.

There is no real job creation solution. At the end of the race in the regions, we will be seeing an exodus of skilled workers. The Conservatives are jeopardizing the efforts of the economic players in those regions. The minister can see that for herself if she comes to Haute-Côte-Nord or Charlevoix. For the seasonal industry back home, winter is winter.

Birthday CongratulationsStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to recognize a very special milestone for Caledon's senior statesman, Alex Raeburn, who will celebrate his 100th birthday on November 26, 2012.

This long-time resident in my riding of Dufferin—Caledon has made countless contributions to our community through his many years of public service to various municipal and provincial bodies and organizations. He has dedicated his life to educating his fellow citizens on the natural beauty and rich heritage of Caledon.

Alex's countless contributions have made our community a better place to live, work and play. In appreciation for his exceptional efforts, he was honoured with a spot on the Caledon Walk of Fame in 2008.

I encourage everyone to join me in wishing Alex Raeburn a very happy 100th birthday.