House of Commons Hansard #75 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was firearms.

Topics

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, the hon. member seems to find this to be very humorous.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

It is humorous.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. I would like a bit of order in the House.

The hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona will conclude her question.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, in a nation governed by the rule of law, the laws are made by the duly elected members in debates in the elected House. Last May we only had an election of the new members of this House. That side of the House should be giving due respect to our democratic parliamentary system, wherein we have committed in this country to show the world that this is how we are running our nation and others should watch us, that we make the rules of how we govern our nation based on the debate in the House by the duly elected officials.

I implore the minister to start referencing our system of Parliament in this country.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, we made it very clear during the elections in 2011, 2008, 2006, 2004, 2000, 1997, and the predecessor parties, that our goal was to abolish the long gun registry, that we are opposed to the long gun registry. That was our platform. When we became government we did not change our platform. We said the things that we ran on as our platform are the things that we are going to implement.

The opposition is saying that it is going to try to delay and stymie the process for as long as possible, that there should be another four years to debate this and then have another election and, indeed, never get this accomplished. I think Canadians understand. The issues are very clear on where the NDP stands. I do not think there is one person in this Parliament who has not already made up his or her mind on this particular bill. That member and that party continue with a charade when in fact they simply do not want the bill passed. They do not want to hear the democratic will. They do not want the bill passed.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Madam Speaker, I feel compelled to respond to the comments of the Conservative minister on this debate.

I find it hugely insulting that the minister considers debate in the House of Commons to be simply to delay and stymie the process. What is he referring to by stymying the process? This is the process. This is the way in which elected members of Parliament, as the NDP member just mentioned, reflect concerns about a piece of legislation. They are legitimate concerns. They are concerns that we have heard from the RCMP, from police chiefs, from civil society right across the country. Debate is the way that members reflect that. It is the way that members represent their constituents who want to have a voice. They want to know that their members of Parliament are listening to their concerns and are reflecting them here.

This is not about delaying. It is not about stymying--

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Order, please. The hon. Minister of Public Safety.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I am curious to know when the member thinks she has not had an opportunity to put her position on the long gun registry on the public record here in the House, in committee, or otherwise. If over the years that she has been here she has not been able to express her opinion very clearly on the issue, I would be surprised.

Perhaps we could check the record to see if indeed she has made any comments. If she has not made any comments, all I can say is, where has she been?

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

NDP

Jasbir Sandhu NDP Surrey North, BC

Madam Speaker, I am a new member to this chamber. There are many rules and regulations and things to learn in Ottawa. One of the things I have learned about in the last six or seven months is time allocation. Thanks to my colleagues in the Conservative Party, I now know what time allocation is. It is denying my right to speak on behalf of my constituents to represent their views.

The minister says that this issue has been talked about for 17 years. My constituents would like to have a voice in this chamber. What do I tell them about the government not allowing their member to speak in the House?

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, he can say to his constituents that he voted in favour of retaining the long gun registry, a registry that in fact criminalizes hunters, sports shooters and farmers and that he wants to see those individuals penalized through the criminal process. He can also tell them that he has consistently voted against measures that would protect victims and that would protect children from sexual predators. Those are the things he can tell them.

It is very clear on the record. He can go back and tell his constituents exactly what he has done in the House.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Madam Speaker, the government's insults and personal attacks show what this debate has come to. There is no debate, merely personal attacks. The Conservatives say that they have wanted to make this change for years. This government's attitude has not evolved. It is closed-minded and not at all open to hearing other points of view. We have proposed reasonable amendments to this bill, but the government has never listened. It is still not listening to us. There is no democracy in the House. The opposition represents 60% of Canadians, but still there is no debate in the House. This situation has to end immediately. The Chair should rule on this. We never get answers to our questions because there is never any debate.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I have never heard this individual raise this question in the House in terms of the long gun registry. In question period I certainly have not had a question from him on that. If he has not taken advantage of the opportunities to debate the bill over the past number of months, I am somewhat surprised.

As for personal attacks, I find that quite astounding. I have not made any personal attacks. I have simply indicated in response to a question from the NDP member for Surrey North asking what he is supposed to tell his constituents. I said to tell them the truth, tell them exactly where he stands on various issues, including the long gun registry and issues related to penalties against those who would abuse children. He should tell them exactly where he stands.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ted Hsu Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I was not going to enter this debate, but then I heard something from the minister that made me realize it is worth standing up and countering what the government says.

The minister is accusing us of criminalizing hunters and sports shooters. That is not the intent, nor is it the actual effect of the long gun registry. Every time the Conservatives say that, we have to stand and say that is wrong, that it is not true. That is one of the reasons we need to continue this debate. Everything has to be countered. On every argument that is brought up, light has to be shed on what the government is saying, the things that are not true.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I am puzzled. The long gun registry was passed pursuant to Parliament's criminal law power. A breach of that provision is a breach of the criminal law. A person who breaches the criminal law and is found guilty is a criminal.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Brent Rathgeber Conservative Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Madam Speaker, as the minister knows, I have sat on the public safety committee both in this Parliament and in the last. We have vetted this bill backwards and forwards, inside and out. I must say there are very few pieces of legislation or other matters that I have examined more thoroughly.

The minister has sat in this chamber longer than I have. I am curious to know when was the last time he actually heard a new argument or a new angle with respect to the merits or the lack of merits of the long gun registry? When was the last time he heard a different argument?

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, I think I have heard all the arguments that could possibly be made in respect to this bill. The argument essentially boils down to the opposition wanting to criminalize the farmers, hunters and sports shooters in my riding. Having said that, I do not know what the opposition members want to do once they have criminalized them. We know they do not want to send anyone to prison. Hopefully they do not want to send farmers, hunters and sports shooters to prison for this.

The point remains that it is a criminal offence for a decent, law-abiding, ordinary individual not to register a firearm even though that individual is properly licensed to acquire a firearm.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Marc-André Morin NDP Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Madam Speaker, as for breaking the law, it was voted on by Parliament under a previous government. This government strongly urged gun owners to disobey the law and gladly promised that it would scrap the legislation. Encouraging people to disobey the law—and then accusing others of wanting to criminalize them after the fact—is just wrong.

Earlier, the minister mentioned the very young ages of some of our elected representatives. I have a great deal of admiration for my party's young MPs. These young people are serious, hard-working individuals who are doing an excellent job. The minister needs to remember that we were all elected to Parliament and we all represent Canadians. If he wants to base his actions on the legitimacy of his mandate and act nonsensically, leading the procedure any which way, I must remind him that there are rules we must follow. That is all we are asking for today.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, perhaps we could start quoting some of the member's caucus colleagues.

The member for Sackville—Eastern Shore in Nova Scotia said this:

I have had this view since 1995. I have always believed that the gun registry is a failure in principle and a failure in policy, and that we could do much better with different policies.

That is exactly it. Let us get this broken policy behind us and get effective policies reflected in laws that actually target criminals and not honest law-abiding citizens.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

Madam Speaker, what we are debating right now is time allocation and not the merits of the bill on which time allocation has been moved.

As a new parliamentarian, I notice that in this Parliament it seems the hon. members across the aisle have very little respect for the democratic process. The democratic parliamentary process is to have the bills read at different stages, not to fly through them under time allocation. All members in this House should be able to deliberate and represent points of view from their ridings and to listen to the points being made by other members. What I am seeing over and over again is an attempt to silence any opposition.

My question for the minister is, what do you have to hide that you want to shut up any debate in this House?

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

I would just remind all members to direct their comments through the Chair.

The hon. Minister of Public Safety.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, the NDP member for the Northwest Territories said in 2009:

My views on the long-gun registry have been pretty consistent over the last four years. We waited for the government to address this for nearly four years.

The member indicated in the Northern News Services that he is “encouraged that this vote has passed and will now go to committee”.

That was in 2009. Members in that caucus are saying, “Let us get on with this”.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Bloc

André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC

Madam Speaker, time allocation should be the exception, not the rule, in this House. If there were a question of national security or an entire Canadian sector dealing with a devastating economic crisis, we would come to an agreement in the House to cut off debate for a specific reason. However, the government is simply making up excuses. It has moved nearly 20 time allocation motions, even though the House just recently resumed. It is completely unacceptable.

Not only are the opposition members of the House being scorned, but so are Quebeckers. Three Quebec ministers came to Ottawa to comment on Bill C-19, specifically to ask the federal government not to destroy the data. The Government of Quebec has made a formal request and we have not finished debating this issue. However, the federal government refuses to listen. What is so urgent that the government will not listen to anyone—neither parliamentarians nor provincial governments—debate this issue?

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Conservative

Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB

Madam Speaker, our government did hear that concern expressed by the Government of Quebec. We heard what the Government of Quebec said. We weighed that issue. We indicated very clearly that when we made the commitment to the people of Canada to abolish the long gun registry, what we said is that we would abolish that long gun registry.

What is the registry? The registry is the data. We cannot say that we will abolish the long gun registry but keep it active through the back door. That is simply not appropriate. It would be in breach of our undertaking to the people of Canada.

Bill C-19—Time Allocation MotionEnding the Long-gun Registry ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Madam Speaker, for the minister to gently poke fun at the young MPs from Quebec here in the House, shows that he does not fully understand how the democratic system works. Many recently elected MPs want to take part in this debate, having not had the opportunity to do so in the 17 years he refers to. These MPs are representatives elected by the people in their ridings. What is more, the minister is being disrespectful toward all voters in Quebec and he should apologize.